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-   -   Elavil or Nortriptyline? (https://www.neurotalk.org/peripheral-neuropathy/140745-elavil-nortriptyline.html)

mrsD 12-16-2010 02:44 AM

Most doctors are afraid of high dose TCAs. This family of drugs can cause long QT syndrome, and affect the heart.

Low electrolytes (low potassium and low magnesium) can also bring this on when you are using a TCA.

more here:
http://www.azcert.org/

Any dose of TCA may do this, esp when mixed with other drugs on the lists. However, mostly it appears when people overdose (depression patients may take overdoses in suicide attempts), or when electrolytes get low from diarrhea/vomiting.

Recovering from an overdose of TCA is not easy, so doctors are afraid to use high doses.

50mg of Elavil is not a typical dose (or higher) for PN. Typically 10-25mg are the more common doses.

If a doctor goes higher, then he is seeking a bit of antidepressant action, as well.

You can be screened for long QT with an EKG.

malawigirl08 12-16-2010 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 726228)
Most doctors are afraid of high dose TCAs. This family of drugs can cause long QT syndrome, and affect the heart.

Low electrolytes (low potassium and low magnesium) can also bring this on when you are using a TCA.

more here:
http://www.azcert.org/

Any dose of TCA may do this, esp when mixed with other drugs on the lists. However, mostly it appears when people overdose (depression patients may take overdoses in suicide attempts), or when electrolytes get low from diarrhea/vomiting.

Recovering from an overdose of TCA is not easy, so doctors are afraid to use high doses.

50mg of Elavil is not a typical dose (or higher) for PN. Typically 10-25mg are the more common doses.

If a doctor goes higher, then he is seeking a bit of antidepressant action, as well.

You can be screened for long QT with an EKG.

I was prsecribed 10mg and felt it wasnt doing any good so the doc prescribed Imipramine and still I think I am taking it needlessly, I may try doing without. I am afraid to speak too soon but my Lidocaine Infusion seems to be giving really good results, the past three weeks have been lovely and I have just had another so am hoping this will last through Christmas.

rose_thorn98 12-17-2010 12:41 AM

Lidocaine infusions
 
Are dr.'s doing lidocaine infusions in the US?

mrsD 12-17-2010 01:17 AM

Yes, but mostly we see that intervention on the RSD forum.

If you search "lidocaine" there you'll find those posts.

There is a poster there currently who gets these infusions regularly.

malawigirl08 12-17-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 726488)
Yes, but mostly we see that intervention on the RSD forum.

If you search "lidocaine" there you'll find those posts.

There is a poster there currently who gets these infusions regularly.

Mrs D, why are US medics not using Lidocaine Infusion for PN?

mrsD 12-17-2010 04:16 PM

I really don't know. Medical habits...treatments, get very cultural. In US there is a liability term used called "standard of care". So most doctors have journals which explain this, and they all sort of band together and adhere to it to keep their insurance premiums down.

Daniella ( she also has RSD) here was offered a lidocaine infusion. And I have read on another board--at another site-- in the past, some chronic pain patients have tried it.

Some RSD doctors offer it here in US.

Lidocaine does affect the heart, and so there may be a liability constraint here.

Here is an article illustrating it:
http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstr...?pmid=10863041

and this:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/409782_4
(you have to join --it is free-- to view medscape)

I really think it is a benefit vs risk decision. (both for the doctor and patient)

JoanB 12-20-2010 11:00 PM

I've been on Elavil (50mg) and Gabapentin 600mg 2x for about 5 months. Pain relief, not really. Now my neuro is adding Carbamazepine, which I guess is another anti-seizure med like Gabapentin. Well, at least he's trying something...my last doc refused to prescribe anything at all for me.

rose_thorn98 12-20-2010 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoanB (Post 727613)
I've been on Elavil (50mg) and Gabapentin 600mg 2x for about 5 months. Pain relief, not really. Now my neuro is adding Carbamazepine, which I guess is another anti-seizure med like Gabapentin. Well, at least he's trying something...my last doc refused to prescribe anything at all for me.

I can't believe these Doctors who won't prescribe anything. I'm glad you found a new Dr. You are on a low dose of Gabapentin compared to some people. I hope your new med helps you.

JoanB 12-21-2010 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rose_thorn98 (Post 727622)
I can't believe these Doctors who won't prescribe anything. I'm glad you found a new Dr. You are on a low dose of Gabapentin compared to some people. I hope your new med helps you.

Thanks rose. Yeah those kind of docs...and then there are so many laypeople who disparage medications too. They say, "you just want to take a pill to make it go away" to which I say "YES, that would be the best of all possible worlds, you %#&ing idiot!" I don't really say it. But I think it.

I was on 3600 mg/day of Gabapentin before. One of these days we're gonna find the right combo...I hope soon! This doctor does seem like he's trying. He ordered a new EMG for me and is going to perform the test himself..pretty fancy-schmancy, eh?

invisable 12-21-2010 10:36 PM

I have thought %#&ing things myself.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoanB (Post 727867)
Thanks rose. Yeah those kind of docs...and then there are so many laypeople who disparage medications too. They say, "you just want to take a pill to make it go away" to which I say "YES, that would be the best of all possible worlds, you %#&ing idiot!" I don't really say it. But I think it.

I was on 3600 mg/day of Gabapentin before. One of these days we're gonna find the right combo...I hope soon! This doctor does seem like he's trying. He ordered a new EMG for me and is going to perform the test himself..pretty fancy-schmancy, eh?

I must confess.........like those people wouldn't want it to go away if they were in our (painful) shoes!!!!!!!!!!!


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