300 mg is the depression dose for amitriptyline. It used to be more common in the old days before SSRIs. It carries along with it at that dose QT depressing potential however.

So we don't see those high doses for it anymore.

In the old days, before the link to chronic pain, we rarely dispensed the 10 or 25mg! Now it is the reverse!

Ive been on amitriptyline now for 3 weeks (started at 10mg now at 20mg) I havent had any side effect, it doesnt even make me sleepy. It helps me a lot with pain and calms my anxiety and emotional spikes a lot even at this low dose. I'm surprised, even though its not an SSRI but still an antidepressant, in the past any SSRI id taken really didnt go over well.

Elavil Beware!
 

My wife and I are both extremely sensative to this drug. I took one standard dose, which was supposed to be one of many, etc, etc.

I slept for three days and then "woke up". I could not talk. I could form the words in my head, but could not make my mouth work. It was like being in a dream filled with jello. I cried and cried.

This ONE PILL took a month to wear off. My wife's experience was similar.

25 mg. No i dont take any other meds for PN. I do take vitamins however.

Drug Interactions
 

Good Morning,
Using the drug interaction checker at Drugs.com it showed 227 major drug interactions for amitriptyline. If your using drug cocktails you might want to use this tool, it includes OTC, foods and diseases.

TCA's prolong QT. So it would be listed as interacting with all drugs in the various lists that do that too.

Here is more on QT prolongation:
http://www.azcert.org/
This has evolved into a very nice website complete with
revolving graphic illustrating what the QT interval is.

In the small doses like 10-25mg a day, this is much less an issue than past 50mg or so. 50mg is borderline.

TCAs like Elavil were often a method of suicide in depressed patients, and often was successful. (poor useful interventions for it).

With the advent of SSRIs ...which do not have this deadly potential for overdose...doctors rapidly switched to them, and left TCAs in the dust for high dose use.

Ok, I just re-read this thread, and the article cited about the regenerative potential (which was from 6/09).

I tried the experiment of stopping the R-Lipoic, and the burning began to return, so I got back on it pronto, and so-far, so-good. :Good-Luck: (only emote w/crossed finners....)

I'm getting ready to have a confab with my doc and hit him up for a scrip for amitriptyline. Now since the R-Lipoic is addressing the pain/burning, the main (only) reason I want to add the amitriptyline is for the regenerative potential, and hopefully beat this thing, or at least feel some improvement. So my questions are:

Does anyone have any other links/citations of articles about this topic since 6/09?

Does anyone think it's actually working for them in this manner (i.e. are you getting better/feeling back)?

I was prescribed amitriptyline once before, and stopped it due to side effects, but that was years ago, and I don't recall the dosage. What dosage would I need for just the regen effects (and hopefully avoid the nasty side effects?

Doc

It is possible the lipoic acid is enabling mitochrondrial functions.

This supplement is combined with acetyl carnitine for that purpose in the product Juvenon.

So if that is true for you...and this is only a guess, you may need it daily from this day forward, as your own system is flawed for some reason. (aging is often pointed to for mito decay). Lipoic acid is a natural substance our bodies make, and may decline with age.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15919137

I would continue with what works for you. After a year on the lipoic, you might try stopping it to see what happens.

Do you know for sure you have nerve damage... and not just aging mitochondria? These factors are relatively new, and there would have to be more research in the future to clarify things.

I wouldn't add amitriptyline unless you really need it. Since the lipoic works, you seem okay with that so far.

Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it looks like that link is saying 100 mg/kg bw/day for 30 days (plus 3 x as much carnitine). That's like 11,400 mg/day - a lot of Lipoic acid.

Yep, they tell me from the zap test I gots da nerve damage. Hence I'd like any chance I can to help regrow them. The lipoic is working for now, but since they haven't found a cause (and don't seem to be interested in finding one) if this keeps progressing I can see a time when the lipoic won't work any longer. If I can't reverse it, I'd like to stop it, etc.

Doc

When they do the rats, they always have large doses.
Sometimes the doses on PubMed studies are "strange".

You could contact the doctor... his email is on that abstract.

I think since you have positive results, it doesn't really matter.
Your doses are working for you. That you are feeling better means you needed the lipoic.

The nerve growth factors sound very experimental to me. It is not clear if those were measured on severed nerves in a lab?
Many growth factors are done that way.

The value of the "ami" study is that it was the only TCA with those results. That narrows the field for doctors to choose it.

For you, I'd concentrate on substances that improve mito functions for a while.

Lipoic acid also provides other benefits:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/a...oic-000285.htm

I agree, if what you are taking is helping you, stick with it. Ive been taking amitriptylene for a few years now for pain at night and so i can get to and stay asleep. It hasnt reversed my nerve damage. The degree of damage and the areas affected have continued to advance unabated. I wouldnt take anything if i didnt need it. Stick with what you are doing, it takes time and you are having good results.

Curcumin and Resveratrol plus Vitamin D beats the tar out of Elavil. I started using this combo not too long ago and Elavil can't hold a candle to this. Not to mention the bonus antioxidant, anti-aging, neuropathy, and chronic fatigue fighting effects.

Curcumin - keto, enol, or both?

Resveratrol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resveratrol

I have had a number of people recommend Curcumin as an anti-inflammatory. I have tried it in the past and I am trying it again now. But it has not worked so far.

Is there a type, or brand, or formula that I should use?

You need to get one that has enhanced absorption. Curcumin and tumeric mainly are poorly absorbed and remain in the GI tract.

This is one type:
http://www.amazon.com/Curcu-Gel-Enha.../dp/B001MX615M

Another is by Doctor's Best with Bioperine...but if you take RX drugs the Bioperine may interfere with those.

There is another micro encapsulated type, which is more expensive.
http://www.vrp.com/brain-health/long...FcfsKgodhwiNCw

I think grapeseed extract and astaxanthin are the two least expensive ones to try first.

ON Resveratrol:

Those Wikipedia claims can be fleeting, so best not to put all one's faith in that as it is written by anybody can edit it. That being said there is much research that points to Resvertrol's beneficial effects on the body. And there is much research that needs to be done especially on humans to confirm that done on insects and animals. But I would chalk it up there with fish oil in terms of important supplements. As long as you stay within around 200mgs a day you should only reap benefits.

And Resveratrol is beneficial for the liver(reduces fatty liver and regenerates cells) whereas pharmaceutical drugs are not. Amytriptillyne only adds to one's toxic load. As I have Neuropathy, anything I can do to reduce my toxic load......... I do. I have been taking this Resveratrol/Curcumin combo for a while and it has added a DEFINITE boost to my overall health(energy, strength, wellbeing, no pain).

Thanks, aeb.

Would you mind stating which resveratrol product you are using? And which curcumin product?

That's true with many unsupported statements in Wiki articles, like the one under Peripheral Edema claiming it can result in PN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_edema

However the Wikipedia article on resvertrol is supported by citations, and fairly credible ones. From footnote 4: "Selling resveratrol: Wonder drug or snake oil?"I've seen a number of statements now that there just isn't any credible research supporting the claims about resveratrol. What research (please cite/link) are you referring to?

Doc

1. Red grapes produce a phytochemical called resveratrol, which protects them from ultraviolet radiation, fungus infections, and other stressors. Resveratrol activates anti-aging genes that stimulate the production of proteins that circulate in your body, throwing overboard cells that aren’t pulling their weight and rejuvenating cells damaged by advanced glycation end-products (AGEs).

- Dr. Steven R. Gundry, Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

2. Resveratrol, has been found by Harvard medical school researchers to activate a longevity gene in yeast that extends life by 70 percent.

- Gabriel Cousens,There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program

3. A large body of research supports the role of resveratrol in resisting cancer, inflammation and heart disease. Resveratrol has been found to suppress the activation of inflammatory cytokines and COX-2, and shows special promise in preventing and slowing the progression of breast cancer. Resveratrol is also a potent antioxidant.

- Freedom Press,Natural Cancer Cures: The Definitive Guide to Using Dietary Supplements to Fight and Prevent Cancer

4. In controlled studies, resveratrol has been shown to reduce skin cancer tumors by up to 98 percent, to stop production of leukemia cells. In addition, it works as a Cox inhibitor, thus halting the spread of cancer throughout the body.

- Jon Barron,Lessons from The Miracle Doctors: A Step-by-Step Guide to Optimum Health and Relief from Catastrophic Illness

5. Many red fruits and vegetables contain resveratrol. Rich sources include grapes, grape juice and red wine. According to Dr. James Howenstine, author of A Physician’s Guide to Natural Health Products That Work, 20 mg of resveratrol daily provides maximal health benefits. Red wine has 0.2 mg per glass. Since drinking 100 glasses of wine would prove toxic indeed, wine is definitely not the best source of this nutrient!

- Susan E. Schenck,The Live Food Factor: The Comprehensive Guide to the Ultimate Diet for Body, Mind, Spirit & Planet

6. The fermentation process that produces wine yields carbon dioxide, which protects the resveratrol from the effects of oxygen. Interestingly, the higher the altitude at w hich grapes are grown, the more resveratrol they produce to protect against sun damage. In Sardinia, where grapes grow at 4,000 feet above sea level, there are more centenarians per 100,000 people than almost any other culture.

- Dr. Steven R. Gundry,Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

7. Plants that produce resveratrol do so in response to stress, so this phytochemical serves as a natural antibiotic for the plant. In humans, its protective effects may contribute to the Mediterranean paradox — the protective effect of red wine drinking on cardiovascular health.

- Elaine Magee,Food Synergy: Unleash Hundreds of Powerful Healing Food Combinations to Fight Disease and Live Well

8. Phenolic antioxidant resveratrol found in berries and grapes has been reported to inhibit the growth formation of prostate tumor cells by acting on the regulatory genes such as p53 while activating a cascade of genes involved in cell cycle and apoptosis including p300, Apaf-1, cdk inhibitor p21, p57 (KIP2), p53-induced Pig 7, Pig 8, Pig 10, cyclin D, and DNA fragmentation factor 45, although some findings were not confirmed by Rt-PCR. [68].

- Ann M. Coulston and Carol J. Boushey,Nutrition in the Prevention and Treatment of Disease

9. When incubated with hepatoma cells, resveratrol induced Phase II detoxifying enzymes that detoxified and inhibited the proliferation of these cells. Resveratrol also inhibited the development of preneoplastic lesions when mice were exposed to tumor initiators and promoters.

- Donald R. Yance, j r.,C.N., M.H., A.H.G., with Arlene Valentine,Herbal Medicine, Healing and Cancer: A Comprehensive Program for Prevention and Treatment

10. The precise amount of wine needed to reap any possible benefits of resveratrol is unknown and will vary depending on your size and weight. As a general rule, you should try to limit yourself to no more than two glasses a night. Recent studies have linked moderate intake of alcohol with a 45 percent less risk of developing dementia.

- Peter J. Whitehouse and Daniel George,The Myth of Alzheimer’s: What You Aren’t Being Told About Today’s Most Dreaded Diagnosis

11. Ellagic acid is believed to reduce damage caused by carcinogens in tobacco smoke and air pollutants, while resveratrol has shown powerful antioxidant action, potentially offering protection from heart disease.

- Elaine Magee,Food Synergy: Unleash Hundreds of Powerful Healing Food Combinations to Fight Disease and Live Well

12. Resveratrol is an antioxidant found in many foods, but most abundantly in peanuts and red grapes. Red wine from cold climates (such as France) is a particularly good source of resveratrol. It is less concentrated in red wines from warmer climes such as California, Italy, Spain, or Portugal. Studies from the University of Illinois have shown that the number of early breast lesions and skin cancers in mice dropped dramatically when they were given high doses of resveratrol.

- Ralph Moss, PhD,Antioxidants Against Cancer: How to activate your body’s natural healing powers with today’s most protective and immune-boosting supplements and foods

13. Knotweed (a Japanese plant) has forty times more resveratrol per pound than grapes do, and it grows everywhere (and makes a great apple pie). Paradoxically, muscadine grapes from the southeast United States also have a ton of resveratrol (several times more than wine).

- Mehmet C. Oz., M.D. and Michael F. Roizen, M.D.,You: Staying Young: The Owner’s Manual for Extending Your Warranty

14. Italian researchers discovered something even more profound regarding the chemistry of resveratrol. They determined that this unique chemical revitalizes nerve cells. In fact, resveratrol induced portions of the nerves to regenerate, in other words, the nerves started growing again, a feat formerly deemed impossible. A reasonable conclusion is that resveratrol is a major protector of the genes, in other words, it prevents chromosome damage. Yet, grape extracts offer another mechanism of action.

- Dr. Cass Ingram,Dr. Cass Ingram’s Lifesaving Cures

15. The pistachio is second only to wine as a tremendous source of the plant chemical resveratrol. This substance may play a role in fighting cancer and heart disease.

- David W. Grotto, RD, LDN,101 Foods That Could Save Your Life!

16. Don’t rush out to the health food store to buy resveratrol capsules, which are generally worthless because resveratrol is inactivated by exposure to oxygen.

- Dr. Steven R. Gundry,Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

17. Finally, resveratrol has made news for the last decade or so as one of the key “antiaging” compounds in red wine and grapes. “It lowers blood pressure, blood fats, and glucose,” Houston says, “and it relaxes the vascular smooth muscles.”

- Jonny Bowden, Ph.D., C.N.S.,The Most Effective Natural Cures on Earth: The Surprising, Unbiased Truth about What Treatments Work and Why

18. Studies have shown that resveratrol may prevent heart disease in two important ways. First, it inhibits the formation of blood clots, which can trigger both heart attack and stroke. Second, it plays a role in cholesterol metabolism, which may prevent the formation of artery-clogging plaque. What’s even more exciting, however, is resveratrol’s potential as cancer fighter.

- Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D.,Earl Mindell’s Supplement Bible: A Comprehensive Guide to Hundreds of NEW Natural Products that Will Help You Live Longer, Look Better, Stay Heathier, ... and Much More!

19. Research at Harvard Medical School and BIOMOL Research Laboratories has shown that taking the supplement resveratrol may even turn on the anti-aging genes, much like a low-calorie diet. If you prefer to get this phytonutrient in whole foods, it is found in organic grapes, red wine, pine tree bark and other plants, such as Japanese knotweed (polygonum cuspidatum). Of course cooking will destroy this nutrient.

- Susan E. Schenck, The Live Food Factor: The Comprehensive Guide to the Ultimate Diet for Body, Mind, Spirit & Planet

20. Resveratrol produced changes associated with longer life span and produced the following biologic effects: 1. Increased insulin sensitivity leading to better blood-sugar control; 2. Reduced insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-I) levels — a molecule related to a growth hormone that promotes cancer growth; 3. Increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) — a signaling system in the body that controls insulin sensitivity and can prevent diabetes.

- Mark Hyman MD,The UltraMind Solution: Fix Your Broken Brain by Healing Your Body First



Resveratrol increased lipolysis and reduced lipogenesis in mature adipocytes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21261640

Here are some of the findings that recent magazine articles have showcased below. If you want the research papers, you can punch in the article title and go to the URL and retrieve it there. There is one on Nerve Regeneration down there as well. Enjoy!


[QUOTE=aeb105;761140]1. Red grapes produce a phytochemical called resveratrol, which protects them from ultraviolet radiation, fungus infections, and other stressors. Resveratrol activates anti-aging genes that stimulate the production of proteins that circulate in your body, throwing overboard cells that aren’t pulling their weight and rejuvenating cells damaged by advanced glycation end-products (AGEs).


- Dr. Steven R. Gundry, Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

2. Resveratrol, has been found by Harvard medical school researchers to activate a longevity gene in yeast that extends life by 70 percent.

- Gabriel Cousens,There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program

3. A large body of research supports the role of resveratrol in resisting cancer, inflammation and heart disease. Resveratrol has been found to suppress the activation of inflammatory cytokines and COX-2, and shows special promise in preventing and slowing the progression of breast cancer. Resveratrol is also a potent antioxidant.

- Freedom Press,Natural Cancer Cures: The Definitive Guide to Using Dietary Supplements to Fight and Prevent Cancer

4. In controlled studies, resveratrol has been shown to reduce skin cancer tumors by up to 98 percent, to stop production of leukemia cells. In addition, it works as a Cox inhibitor, thus halting the spread of cancer throughout the body.

- Jon Barron,Lessons from The Miracle Doctors: A Step-by-Step Guide to Optimum Health and Relief from Catastrophic Illness

5. Many red fruits and vegetables contain resveratrol. Rich sources include grapes, grape juice and red wine. According to Dr. James Howenstine, author of A Physician’s Guide to Natural Health Products That Work, 20 mg of resveratrol daily provides maximal health benefits. Red wine has 0.2 mg per glass. Since drinking 100 glasses of wine would prove toxic indeed, wine is definitely not the best source of this nutrient!

- Susan E. Schenck,The Live Food Factor: The Comprehensive Guide to the Ultimate Diet for Body, Mind, Spirit & Planet

6. The fermentation process that produces wine yields carbon dioxide, which protects the resveratrol from the effects of oxygen. Interestingly, the higher the altitude at w hich grapes are grown, the more resveratrol they produce to protect against sun damage. In Sardinia, where grapes grow at 4,000 feet above sea level, there are more centenarians per 100,000 people than almost any other culture.

- Dr. Steven R. Gundry,Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

7. Plants that produce resveratrol do so in response to stress, so this phytochemical serves as a natural antibiotic for the plant. In humans, its protective effects may contribute to the Mediterranean paradox — the protective effect of red wine drinking on cardiovascular health.

- Elaine Magee,Food Synergy: Unleash Hundreds of Powerful Healing Food Combinations to Fight Disease and Live Well

8. Phenolic antioxidant resveratrol found in berries and grapes has been reported to inhibit the growth formation of prostate tumor cells by acting on the regulatory genes such as p53 while activating a cascade of genes involved in cell cycle and apoptosis including p300, Apaf-1, cdk inhibitor p21, p57 (KIP2), p53-induced Pig 7, Pig 8, Pig 10, cyclin D, and DNA fragmentation factor 45, although some findings were not confirmed by Rt-PCR. [68].

- Ann M. Coulston and Carol J. Boushey,Nutrition in the Prevention and Treatment of Disease

9. When incubated with hepatoma cells, resveratrol induced Phase II detoxifying enzymes that detoxified and inhibited the proliferation of these cells. Resveratrol also inhibited the development of preneoplastic lesions when mice were exposed to tumor initiators and promoters.

- Donald R. Yance, j r.,C.N., M.H., A.H.G., with Arlene Valentine,Herbal Medicine, Healing and Cancer: A Comprehensive Program for Prevention and Treatment

10. The precise amount of wine needed to reap any possible benefits of resveratrol is unknown and will vary depending on your size and weight. As a general rule, you should try to limit yourself to no more than two glasses a night. Recent studies have linked moderate intake of alcohol with a 45 percent less risk of developing dementia.

- Peter J. Whitehouse and Daniel George,The Myth of Alzheimer’s: What You Aren’t Being Told About Today’s Most Dreaded Diagnosis

11. Ellagic acid is believed to reduce damage caused by carcinogens in tobacco smoke and air pollutants, while resveratrol has shown powerful antioxidant action, potentially offering protection from heart disease.

- Elaine Magee,Food Synergy: Unleash Hundreds of Powerful Healing Food Combinations to Fight Disease and Live Well

12. Resveratrol is an antioxidant found in many foods, but most abundantly in peanuts and red grapes. Red wine from cold climates (such as France) is a particularly good source of resveratrol. It is less concentrated in red wines from warmer climes such as California, Italy, Spain, or Portugal. Studies from the University of Illinois have shown that the number of early breast lesions and skin cancers in mice dropped dramatically when they were given high doses of resveratrol.

- Ralph Moss, PhD,Antioxidants Against Cancer: How to activate your body’s natural healing powers with today’s most protective and immune-boosting supplements and foods

13. Knotweed (a Japanese plant) has forty times more resveratrol per pound than grapes do, and it grows everywhere (and makes a great apple pie). Paradoxically, muscadine grapes from the southeast United States also have a ton of resveratrol (several times more than wine).

- Mehmet C. Oz., M.D. and Michael F. Roizen, M.D.,You: Staying Young: The Owner’s Manual for Extending Your Warranty

14. Italian researchers discovered something even more profound regarding the chemistry of resveratrol. They determined that this unique chemical revitalizes nerve cells. In fact, resveratrol induced portions of the nerves to regenerate, in other words, the nerves started growing again, a feat formerly deemed impossible. A reasonable conclusion is that resveratrol is a major protector of the genes, in other words, it prevents chromosome damage. Yet, grape extracts offer another mechanism of action.

- Dr. Cass Ingram,Dr. Cass Ingram’s Lifesaving Cures

15. The pistachio is second only to wine as a tremendous source of the plant chemical resveratrol. This substance may play a role in fighting cancer and heart disease.

- David W. Grotto, RD, LDN,101 Foods That Could Save Your Life!

16. Don’t rush out to the health food store to buy resveratrol capsules, which are generally worthless because resveratrol is inactivated by exposure to oxygen.

- Dr. Steven R. Gundry,Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution: Turn Off the Genes That Are Killing You - And Your Waistline - And Drop the Weight for Good

17. Finally, resveratrol has made news for the last decade or so as one of the key “antiaging” compounds in red wine and grapes. “It lowers blood pressure, blood fats, and glucose,” Houston says, “and it relaxes the vascular smooth muscles.”

- Jonny Bowden, Ph.D., C.N.S.,The Most Effective Natural Cures on Earth: The Surprising, Unbiased Truth about What Treatments Work and Why

18. Studies have shown that resveratrol may prevent heart disease in two important ways. First, it inhibits the formation of blood clots, which can trigger both heart attack and stroke. Second, it plays a role in cholesterol metabolism, which may prevent the formation of artery-clogging plaque. What’s even more exciting, however, is resveratrol’s potential as cancer fighter.

- Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D.,Earl Mindell’s Supplement Bible: A Comprehensive Guide to Hundreds of NEW Natural Products that Will Help You Live Longer, Look Better, Stay Heathier, ... and Much More!

19. Research at Harvard Medical School and BIOMOL Research Laboratories has shown that taking the supplement resveratrol may even turn on the anti-aging genes, much like a low-calorie diet. If you prefer to get this phytonutrient in whole foods, it is found in organic grapes, red wine, pine tree bark and other plants, such as Japanese knotweed (polygonum cuspidatum). Of course cooking will destroy this nutrient.

- Susan E. Schenck, The Live Food Factor: The Comprehensive Guide to the Ultimate Diet for Body, Mind, Spirit & Planet

20. Resveratrol produced changes associated with longer life span and produced the following biologic effects: 1. Increased insulin sensitivity leading to better blood-sugar control; 2. Reduced insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-I) levels — a molecule related to a growth hormone that promotes cancer growth; 3. Increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) — a signaling system in the body that controls insulin sensitivity and can prevent diabetes.

- Mark Hyman MD,The UltraMind Solution: Fix Your Broken Brain by Healing Your Body First

I use a combo product from a new company called OrthoNutrition. The guy who heads it is a doctor who devised a regimen to treat hairloss. The guy is brilliant and I respect him as much as Dr. Mercola(who I think everybody should listen to). You can actually post on his site about any medical problems and he will give you a natural solution. Anyway based on a Italian study on Curcumin/Resveratrol benefits for hairloss, they formulated their own and are marketing it to the general public off his natural hairloss site. They will be in GNC and Vitamin Shoppe at some point in the next year I beleive. But you can order them from this link. They also sell the best Krill Oil, Ecklonia Cava and R-Lipoic Acid as well as a De-Calcify product. The Curcumin Resveratrol product is called Antioxidant Boost. All their products contain no fillers like magnesium stearate. I am not a salesman by the way, but I can vouch for their products quality. http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...ng-information

I cannot find information about the Curcumin 95--- being enhanced absorption type.

There are many curcumin 95 products on the net... all are not enhanced. Enhanced have special ingredients or micellized (more expensive).

Curcumin is not absorbed easily from the GI tract. Without enhancement it remains there.

Am getting you that info. I am 100% positive it is Curcumin 95. And they formulated specifically for maximum absorption. Will return soon with with whether is enhanced absorption.

aeb105,

Not sure why you posted essentially the same list twice; it doesn't strengthen an argument. You provided only one link, and that referred to findings in mice & rats - not humans, as is the case with most of the citations you list - rats, mice, other non-human subjects, along with yeast, weasle words "resveritrol may....." and unsubstantiated studies by.... I don't know. I don't see anything there related to PN directly. Also, I'm seeing magazine articles or uncited articles from who knows where (books?) - not medical journals, etc. and the feeling I get is the same as from junk science.

If this is what you accept as credible science I wish you well (and luck). I'll wait for the real science, and err on the side of caution until then. There are other treatments known to work, or at least known not to harm if tried.

I have no doubt that there is some potential in the substance, but it's really too soon to tell, as Rafael de Cabo (from my previous) and others have stated. Taking megadoses of something that's beneficial in small quantities is risky. B-6 is a perfect example; a little is ok - a lot can be toxic, and the people doing the real work on resveratrol are warning exactly that. It's just too soon to say.

From 3/16/11:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410504
Be well,

Doc

Not seeing an enhanced formula... these normally cost more money and the price on this one does not reflect that either.

http://img825.imageshack.us/i/antiox...oostshare.gif/

Zoom in.... you can see it is only 95% curcumin, which is what most other non-enhanced products have (by other reputable companies).

That would explain why they call it Curcumin 95 :rolleyes:

I stated at the beginning of that post that these are magazine citations that link to studies if you go to the site. So, if you are really interested in the studies then go to the site and grab them. :winky:


About Resveratrol and nerves:

14. Italian researchers discovered something even more profound regarding the chemistry of resveratrol. They determined that this unique chemical revitalizes nerve cells. In fact, resveratrol induced portions of the nerves to regenerate, in other words, the nerves started growing again, a feat formerly deemed impossible. A reasonable conclusion is that resveratrol is a major protector of the genes, in other words, it prevents chromosome damage. Yet, grape extracts offer another mechanism of action.

- Dr. Cass Ingram,Dr. Cass Ingram’s Lifesaving Cures

I don't have time to find all the studies as I am at work, but I have seen enough credible evidence. What is known is that Resveratrol is beneficial. What I find ridiculous is that Wikipedia is claiming that Resvertrol is harmful. There is a potential for joint pain but that is only in larger quantities or those above 500gms.

And what you accept as credible science are Pharmaceutical drug companies who specifically design tests, skew outcomes and coverup damaging effects to sell a drug??? All pharmaceutical drugs are hepatotoxic(hurt your liver). Most all pharmaceutical drugs have side effects and usually cause you to take other pharmaceutical drugs to take up for those side effects. Elavil is not good for you no matter what your doctor tells you. But it will curb your pain. However, there are more beneficial natural substances that will do the same and give you side-Benefits. But it is your health your playing with.

I used to not pay attention to what my body was telling me about 10 years ago and just listened to my doctor. I have Neuropathy now because of his bad advice and careless, callous, drug companies who want nothing more than to slow bleed their customers with toxic symptom based treatment instead of beneficial healthy solutions. I feel 100% better now than I ever did on their poison. If you can't feel your nerves, and trigger your pain all time, like I did on Elavil, your only getting worse. These natural solutions can stop your neuropathy from getting worse and make you feel better. Resveratrol in moderate doses is not harmful. That is ridiculous and a perfect example of misinformation or mixed up information.

I basically won't quibble with the "value" of the antioxidants.

Just keep in mind that quality resveratrol costs ALOT of money and the ones used in the studies were high quality (this is true for other supplements as well.. and sometimes a special form or formula is made especially for that study as was done with the bipolar fish oil.)

The price of that supplement combo does not suggest that any special product, or enhancement was done for the 3 ingredients included in it.

The supplement world is full of stuff...many things that just are not bioavailable (properly absorbed). Magnesium oxide is still out there in cal/mag supplements, and the magnesium just is not absorbed. Also there can be much dishonesty in the supplement producers claims too.

One expects quality/purity and honesty, and also bioavailability.
The last one costs money to produce and test, so the cost is passed on the the consumer. The LongVida Curcumin therefore costs about $80.00 because of the research and development and production of it.

If you saw Dr. Mercola on Dr. Oz's recently, you would have seen him say--- supplements don't kill people like drugs do.
And that is true if they are not adulterated like some Chinese ones are. It is also true they may not work. If you choose to spend your money knowing this, it is your decision after all.

Mrs. D-

What I am saying is that it definitely works for me. I have taken Curcumin Jarrow's BC-95 by itself and Now Resveratrol both separately in the past and remember there effects perfectly. This combo supplement does the same thing. This is a quality product. I get the same neuro and gastro boost from both really. And Dr. Simonis' thought is that natural substances have a tendency to work with your body while pharmaceuticals force it(against its will) to do something often causing damage. I have never heard of supplements killing people or companies being sued because of it..........so I kinda agree with him. Nothing is perfect however and there are always swindlers in every business, so you have to know and trust your sources. Just because it comes from China does not make it disreputable unless your source and company are. Most all Resveratrol, even Jarrow's comes from China. If what I am taking is weak or bad for me, it sure it showing me the total opposite. But, I emailed the guy and will get you all pertinent info once it arrives.

The burden of proof lies with the individual making the claims. I have provided links supporting my statements. It is not up to us to pursue the untamed ornithoid to support your statements.

If that is a question, the answer is no. If it is an inference, then it is incorrect.

Anything we ingest has potential side effects, and many things can hurt your liver. However I disagree that most drugs usually cause one to take other drugs to counter side effects. That statement sounds reactionary.

I think this topic is about exhausted.

Doc

While I think this thread is getting off topic... I'll make just one small comment.

There are drugs NOT metabolized by the liver at all:

Gabapentin
Lyrica
Lisinopril (blood pressure)

Some are mostly excreted by the kidneys whole...
example: Digoxin (50-70%)

Not all drugs are hepatotoxic, but many can be. One we see here often is Cymbalta. Another common hepatotoxic drug is acetaminophen (Tylenol), which is OTC.

All drugs are eliminated by the kidneys however, in some form.
Either a metabolite or the whole drug.

requesting that members please stay on topic and not turn disagreements personal (=flaming) or I will have to close this thread, which would not be very fair to the member who started it in order to share helpful info for others

thanks

You provided WIKIPEDIA's explanation and stated Resveratrol is harmful at whatever dose and that is not correct. In the next couple days as I have some time I will find the actual studies behind these articles that strongly suggest the contrary thru yeast, and insects and whatever else. That is the main point that Resveratrol is not bad.


In regards to my statement about pharmaceuticals. I started taking 1 drug in 2003 and ended up on 6 by 2007. I have heard many, many, many stories like mine. All I hear on these forums is "THE PAIN IS GETTING WORSE.....AND THE DOCTOR JUST UPPED MY MEDS." Reactionary and sick...no disgusted ........and appalled with "sick" care......I guess you could say........... as I am a product.

back to elavil, i have taken elevil for almost two years now. I dont take any other drug to counteract the side effects of elavil. Elavil is great for helping me to get and stay asleep at night. It helps with the burning, zapping, crushing, throbbing pain in my feet when i lay down at night. I havent upped the dosage in two years. I may complain at times but im not reactionary in my outlook on medicine or politics. i like to read about other peoples experiences with therapies, or medications, or testing, or doctors. I dont like getting preached too by zealots in either my religious inclinations or in what supplements i take.

!
 

That is great! I am happy it works for you. My point was not to preach to anyone, but just extol my experience with Elavil, and now with supplements I am taking. It's hard to help people or introduce something new without people getting insulted(I am just like you). I get frustrated when something natural like Resveratrol(with potential to reverse Neuropathy gets trashed for no reason in favor of something that keeps it going or helps it get worse.

A zealot? That's harsh but that's why I don't come to these forums I guess. People are just too passive and accepting of the status quo and sick care. And without reactionaries....... there would be no change and NO CURE. If one really takes a look at the current state of our medical system and the methods and means it employs to get us "well", they would realize it is more profitable to keep one sick and not Cure. But I am done here. Good Luck!

Don't lump all of us into the same bag, please!

Antioxidants ARE useful.... only ONE person commented on the resveratrol negatively.

I think focusing on the final PRODUCT offered to see if it is worth its expense, and comes from reputable sources, is what is needed.

Just because something is advertised, does not make it useful.

Be informed, and careful, therefore.

Information on a product should be readily available. If there is a website, made for it, and information is not there readily...that is a bad warning sign. We had a product show up here a few times that kept its ingredients a SECRET! Totally unacceptable. And it had exaggerated claims for it too!
Avoid products that claim a CURE. That is a sure sign of deception.

Elavil works for many people. It has been used in low dose for over 20 yrs, for PN. It may not work for some, but it works for many. It is not expensive, either. Faced with a choice of Elavil vs Cymbalta? I'd take the Elavil any day!

Please lets set the record straight and not put words in my mouth (or from my keyboard as the case may be. :D ) I did not comment negatively; I commented cautionarily, as many others often do here. I quoted what I found in researching the substance. The only thing I stated about it was:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post761258-64.html
That is not negative. Thank you.

Doc

Hey guys,

I helped put together the Ortho Nutrition brand with Orthomolecular Medicinal Practitioner Brian Simonis. I'm not here to advertise; I just wanted to answer some questions here.

1) Our Curcumin 95 and Trans-Resveratrol 99% are from a solid manufacturing company that is both cGMP-Germany certified and cGMP-China certified. If you're familiar with GMP, then you'd know that in America, it is a very difficult thing to obtain. In Germany? Even moreso.

2) Our product combination is cheap, because we only mark it up roughly 100%. In fact, the cost to manufacture Curcumin has raised twice on us, and I haven't raised the price (may raise it a quarter per bottle). We can afford to do this because we're not a corporation, and outsource all the work needed (no overhead).

I agree that when it comes to product testing, the cost of R&D has to be passed on to the consumer for the company to turn a profit. While we don't use LongVida Curcumin, we do use a high-quality extract of Curcumin 95. I just looked over our CoA, here's some information:

Product Name: Curcumins 95%
Botanical Name: Curcuma longa L.
Plant Part Used: Rhizome
Particle Size100% through 100 mesh Complies 100 mesh screen
Assay (Curcumins)>95.0%
Results: 96.8%
Test Method: HPLC

We formed this little company as forumers like yourselves--Brian was recommending certain brands for some time and helping folks out with their health for free (and still is), and I approached him about putting together our own brand based on his specifications rather than give free business away to all of these other companies that we cannot trust 100% (crap fillers, non-veggie capsules, quality control, etc.). This also gave us the liberty to ensure that we have the right amount of actives, the right actives, and so forth. So far, folks really seem to like the Antioxidant Boost on *edit*, however, I am *not* averse to including LongVida Curcumin once we run out of our Curcumin 95 perhaps.

I'll await the quote from LongVida, assuming they're willing to wholesale to us, and let you guys know.

Take care,

Dan

Thanks for that information.

I see your product is similar to many other non-enhanced products. There are many other companies using Curcumin 95 extract.

GMP means good manufacturing processes, but does not ensure bioavailable absorption, as you well know. GMP is important however. I don't want to minimize it. It means that there indeed will be 95% curcumoids in each capsule.

Please let us know when you have the LongVida brand in your product. I'll be watching for it.

ok I have already requested once that this thread return to the topic of ELAVIL and so I am asking one last time that this back and forth about other products be taken to either a new thread or PM, or I will be locking this thread

thanks