I've found a good article/site that I've posted under the General section, Dental/dentistry issues threads...

I think that it applies in some ways to other fears as well, such as all the unknowns many face during the onset, diagnosis, living with and futures of life w/PN and all the other stuff we have to deal with.

Hugs to all tonite! - j

Thanks,

When I get up the courage, I shall go and look it up on the dentistry forum.

I'm facing an appointment sometime in April. Even though I have the nicest, kindest and most important, he's a phobia dentist, I STILL AM SCARED TO DEATH. This guy uses the wand (he was one of the team who discovered the Wand). This guy is one of the top cosmetic dentists in NYC who happens to be a phobia specialist. Couldn't have gone to him otherwise.

We did emails before I walked in the door. That was Christmas week of 2005. My whole family met me there. There, in the waiting room, were my inlaws (they know my phobia and because I take such good care of Alan, they are very appreciative of what I go through just to walk in the door of a dentist's office".
So there they were drinking herbal teas, and coffees, a very relaxed atmosphere, and Alan and I walk in, I'm white as a ghost, the staff couldn't have been kinder. It was only SUPPOSED TO BE FOR A CONSULT. I knew this, I knew nothing was going to be done, but just BEING there was enough to make me take a xanax before. So I finally am called in and I said to everybody, "thank god I made a will". We all laughed. It broke the ice. I go into the room and they roll this computer over to my chair and I go "what on earth is that?" and they go, "oh, haven't you heard, we don't use the old fashioned x-ray cardboard method anymore, this is digital" and with that, he pops a probe in my mouth, moves it around, and in 30 seconds, all my teeth show up on a laptop. Could have knocked me off my feet. I just looked. Since I take extremely good care of my teeth flossing, etc.) and never eat sugar, I was ahead of the game. But the reason I was there was that I had a broken tooth and I needed two crowns.

So there I am thinking "oh well, they are not going to touch me today, I begin to breath easier and then this adorable young dentist comes over to me and goes "melody, guess what, I had a cancellation, I am going to do your two crowns today, you'll come back in two weeks for a cleaning and get your permanent crowns".

I look at him like he's out of his mind and I go "Aha, no you can't, I have mitral valve prolapse and I need to be on antibiotics". He replies: "Aha, here they are" and he opens his hands and there are some antibiotics. I just looked at him. You see we had been e-mailing each other for two weeks, he had my whole history.

So I sat in his chair for 90 minutes. He used the wand. You don't feel a thing. They could not have been nicer. You should have seen the look on Alan's face and his sister and brother-in-law when I come running out later, going "Look, I have two new teeth" (they were on the side of my mouth). And Alan said "You've got to be kidding, you let them work on you, and YOU'RE ALRIGHT"????. I was able to laugh BECAUSE IT WAS NOW BEHIND ME.

So I have been to him twice since (for cleanings). It's been 9 months since I've been back. I'm overdue. I have spoken to the office, they are very kind and compassionate and the dentist's sister is even working in the office and she called me and put me at east.

Let me make one think perfectly clear. When you have a phobia, people can put you at ease, you can tell yourself "oh they use all the latest equipment,etc. etc. blah blah". It's a phobia, that means, it's an illogical fear of something. In my case, it's dentistry. Any kind of dentistry. And we even know WHY!!!

As I explained to my phobia dentist, when I was 5, my mother took me with her to Calahan and Cooley in Brooklyn, NY. (see I even remember the name of the place she took me). This was her appointment not mine. I had never even heard of a dentist. Well, she had to have all her teeth extracted that day.
No one thought that a little girl should not be exposed to such things. There I was (I remember it like it was yesterday, sitting on that brown bench in the waiting room) with my Aunt Lucy. My mother gets all her teeth extracted and they cauterized her gums. She walks into the waiting room and she's banging on the walls. Over and over, banging on the walls. I will never forget that. I told that to my new phobia dentist and he just shook his head and said "oh my god, that traumatized you for life". See, just because we know why, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH APPREHENSION, FEARS, whatever!!

It is what it is!!!. That is why, since I found my phobia guy, I go on Dental forums and find phobia dentists for people (I have found dentists as far away as England). I know what these people are going through.

It's hell to be controlled by any fear. Let alone a fear that can affect your oral health. So I am getting up my courage and I'll take my half a xanax before I get there, but I am determined to go in April. I have no choice, if I want to maintain my oral health.

I'm not trying to change this thread from a PN thread to a dentistry thread, but now you guys know a bit more about me.

Imagine that little 5 year old on the brown bench. I still relive that.

Melody

to read this above cited article...you WILL for the next one I cite, tho I think the guys will like it...dunno..just an 'intuition' thing.

This site is about 'horse dentistry'...far more crude than people work. It helps keep life in perspective. Keep in mind that horse teeth grow differently from human teeth [also some other livestocks] in that the enamels and dentines are growing upwards in layers like a sandwich, different from human teeth which are covered by the enamels and softer parts are inside. Overbite in an animal takes on a whole new meaning...and I don't think orthodonture is 'there' yet for creatures...tho it's coming along for pets such as dogs.

The site is just for the picture factors...compare this to your dentists?
http://www.wisconsinequineclinic.com/html/Dentistry.htm
Having owned a horse..yep that's what it's like. Files, hammers chisels..whole works. Thank goodness neuro's, even the worst I've encountered, aren't like this!
That appliance in the horse mouth? It's a levered thing that cranks open the mouth to work in. It's a powerful thing...

Painless dentists are definitely preferred...they have come a loong way. - j

Dahlek: There is no way on God's green earth, that I will click on your link and look at horse dentistry.

See how BAD a phobia is??????

gives me the creeps just to think about horses and dentistry!!!!!!


love ya.
Melody

Melody,

I've tried to figure out why people have dental phobias, and so far I have 2 ideas.

One is what you describe -- something traumatic happens, and then their body tells them (each new time) no, no, no, no, we're not going to do this!

In that case, it's exactly the same as the person who got violently ill from botulism at age 8, by eating a tamale, and at 78 still won't eat a tamale. His body won't let him -- we have an internal system that's rigged to avoid food poisoning.

I think it's rigged to avoid these other things, too. Like the person who falls down the stairs, breaks some bones and generally has a bad time of it. Thereafter, stairs are a big problem.

The other possibility is even more basic -- when a dentist is working inside of someone's mouth, he's invading that person. Perhaps there's a feeling of being violated? Although granted, the new techniques are gentler and more 'friendly' -- there is still an invasiveness about it. Seems like there would be a really strong, built-in aversion to that.

You are so right with your tamale theory. When I was 7 or 8, my mother took me to work with her. She worked in a factory. I will never forget. They served food for some reason. I ate something called deviled eggs. When I came home (maybe it was the mayonaisse, or I ate a candy bar right after, (who remembers)???, I became deathly ill and for 40 or so years, you wouldn't get me to eat a deviled egg, no where no how!!! Only when I visited a friend's home for lunch and somebody bought a tray of deviled eggs, did I say to myself "now what is the chance of me getting ill again? So I took one. It was delicious and I didn't get sick. I do not eat them as a rule because of the calories but that's a completely different reason than my previous aversion to them.

Now phobias are a whole other ball of wax. I remember watching a Phil Donahue show on Phobias. He had about 7 people on the stage and they all had different phobias. I never laughed so hard in all my life. Not one of these people were dental phobics by the way. Some one had a snake phobia (not me, I've touched snakes, and they are NOT slimy like people think). One person was afraid of buttons, (that's right, buttons). A person came over with a hundreds of buttons hooked into some kind of pillow and the phobic person ran off the stage. But the funniest was the person afraid of balloons. She felt a balloon would take her breath from her body. When a person carrying a bunch of balloons, this person absolutely freaked out and ran away. I forget the other phobias, but the CURE, was this guy who hypnotized them. After the hynotherapy session, the person came out and, you guessed it, they brought a snake out and she touched it, the person could look at the buttons, etc. etc.

Now you might think, "why doesn't Melody try hypnosis"???? Well, I most certainly did. When I was a teenager, my mother brought me to a therapist who tried hypnosis. I had to use a technique by putting my hands together and rubbing them (or something like that, I can't remember exactly). I DO remember going to the dentist and my mother telling the dentist that we did the hypnosis thing and the dentist just looked at us like we had bats in our belfry. I remember the rubbing of my hands and it did nothing. I freaked and ran out of his office.

Want to hear the greatest dental story of all time? I was 22, and had to get my two front teeth capped. My mother found me a guy who puts you to sleep with general anaesthesia. That's right, GA, for teeth. So they put the IV in my arm.

So I go to sleep, I wake up with two temporary crowns, I threw up from all my nerves, I thought about it (remember, I still don't like the whole dental thing. But I was able to get through it. The dentist says to me, come back in two weeks and you'll get the permanent crowns. They have to be made. I said 'no problem". So what does Melody think?? I think, "okay, I go back, they put me to sleep and put on the permanent crowns." Yeah right!!!

So I go back, they are about to yank off my two front temporary teeth with a pair of pliers, I look at the dentist like he is out of his mind, and I go "are you out of your mind?, put me to sleep". He goes "Are YOU out of your mind??, "I'm just taking off two temps and putting on two permanent crowns, you don't need to go to sleep." Well, we are arguing back and forth and he goes "Listen, okay, I'll give you something called Sweet Air", (Nitrous Oxide, I believe it is called). I go "what the hell is that?" He said "you won't know what's going on". I go "really?" He goes, "trust me". So I said Okay!!!

Well, you should have been there for the show. I'm sitting there (me, the dental phobic, with all my adrenalin pumping like Arnold Schartenegger), and they put this mask over my face and they tell me to breath. I start breathing. My whole body goes completely numb and my whole head goes wide awake, I believe I was hyperventilating (or something close to that),I start screaming and they jump and take the mask off and the dentist sighs and yells out to his partner "Call the anaesthesiologist, we have to put her out".

Oh yes, I have had my experiences in a dental chair, believe me!!!!

I still fight this phobia every day of my life, as well as dealing with a son with Aspergers and taking care of Alan and also taking care of myself.

I do it because I have to do it. It's the hardest thing in my life.

I wouldn't wish a dental phobia (or any kind of medical phobia) on anybody. The odd thing is when I go to the doctor and they come at me with an injection thinking I'm going to be afraid and they go, "now, I won't hurt you". and I go "are you for real, go ahead and shoot me".

Want to know how really serious a dental phobia is??? Imagine me, going in for my second gall-bladder operation 7 years ago. I was bleeding internally and they had to go back inside and do a real operation (not the laparoscopy they had initally done). They wheeled me on the gurney right next to the operating room doors. What is the first thing that pops into my mind??? I say out loud to no one in particular. Well, Melody, at least they are not going into your mouth".

Yeah, it's real!!!! Believe me.

Melody

[QUOTE=NTLegend;81567]Melody,

I've tried to figure out why people have dental phobias, and so far I have 2 ideas.

One is what you describe -- something traumatic happens, and then their body tells them (each new time) no, no, no, no, we're not going to do this!

In that case, it's exactly the same as the person who got violently ill from botulism at age 8, by eating a tamale, and at 78 still won't eat a tamale. His body won't let him -- we have an internal system that's rigged to avoid food poisoning.

I think it's rigged to avoid other things, too. Like the person who falls down the stairs, breaks some bones and generally has a bad time of it. Thereafter, stairs are a big problem. Or the person who is in a car accident, and can't make himself drive for a long time afterward.

I would love to find out why (a certain family member on Alan's side of the family), can't go on a bridge, get in a car (she will only ride on buses), she needs to take an atavan if one of her kids flies anywhere, etc. etc. And she is on anti-depressants and sleep meds. (I absolutely never knew this until recently). This person has worked their whole entire life and one would never know by speaking to them that in their youth, they 1, first stopped driving in the nighttime, then 2. Stopped driving completely because of anxiety.

Then they wouldn't go on a bridge, then they wouldnt' get in a car. Now whenever they have to go somewhere in a car, they get anxious and take a pill.

Is this general anxiety? This person was never in a car accident, never had problems going over a bridge, no one in the family was ever in an airplane accident. NOTHING CAUSED THIS EFFECT!!!

I sometimes wonder, (if there is no actual cause for the phobia or anxiety), then WHY are some people so full of fears that they can't get in a car, go over a bridge or have to take a pill when their loved ones fly anywhere. And this person flies places. But they must take an ativan to accomplish this.

My girlfriend told me the other day "melody, do you know how strong an ativan is", I said "isn't it like a xanax?" And she said "don't you watch ER?", whenever a person is brought in agitated in the ER, the first thing out of the mouth of the doctor is 'ATIVAN"".

I think the human mind is very complex and I wish there was an anti-fear pill or some kind of stem cell therapy that would take the "fear gene" out of us all. Man, we would ALL be better off. Not that I want people to take stupid risks or jump off buildings. But just to deal with life better.

Oh well, one can dream. My dream is that they find a way to generate teeth so that everyone can grow as many teeth as they need without resorting to implants, expensive dental procedures and just plain SITTING IN THE DAMM CHAIR!!!

lol Melody

Mel,

I practiced clinical psychology for many years - and saw a lot of folks who sound very much like your family relation. While I would never make a definitive diagnosis on someone who I have never seen, I will offer an opinion.

She sounds like she suffers from a classic case of agoraphobia. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this perplexing and usually vexing (for the person afflicted) disorder. Agoraphobia literally means fear of open spaces, but that is hardly ever the exact symptom manifested in this condition. And while it has a phobic component, it is not a phobia in the way that we normally think of a phobia as it does not involve the fear of a discrete object.

So agoraphobia can best be described as a combination of severe anxiety, with phobic elements, and repetitive avoidant behavior. Agoraphobia usually starts when a person experiences anxiety and then it recurs in the same situation. After awhile, the individual becomes afraid or "phobic" of the anxiety returning so they start the avoiding places they fear could trigger it. For some, the avoidant behavior becomes so generalized and strong that they end up as virtual shut-ins within their homes.

Many agoraphobics have unresolved conflicts around loss of control (of course, who doesn't - I know I have some - and if I didn't, getting this PN would have created them). The symptoms become an expression of this conflict and the fear of loss of control intensifies - it is kind of a very negative spiral that can truly make life a living nightmare for some.

As with other psychological problems, agoraphobia has a wide range of severity. Most are probably similar to your relative, that is, they manage to work and most people around them are unaware of the problem. But from there, the problem can be moderate or even severe, progressing to complete withdrawal from ordinary life activities.

I hope she is getting adequate help. In some cases, the symptoms prove quite intractable. But fortunately most folks are able to be significantly helped.

rafi

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wrong spot

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