[Joano]

It seems he is talking more and more about PN--the last 3 months he's mentioned something about it in each newsletter. Maybe it's because the incidence of PN has increased greatly in statin users so he's receiving more inquiries.

He said tremors could be a symptom of PN, along with the other more common ones, pain, tingling, etc. I remember someone asking about tremors a while back and several responded that they, too, were experiencing them. Sometimes when I'm in a time bind, or feel pressure somehow, I notice my head bobbling, but I do seem to be able to control this to a degree.

Another interesting thing he discussed was R-lipoic acid helping diabetic neuropathy at 300 to 600 mg with each meal. And I remember someone else posting they had benefited from this larger dose. He drew a connection between diabetes and hypertension and said good diet could cure them, with emphasis on plant extracts such as curcumin, quercetin (Dr. Oz likes these too), cinnamon, resveratrol, luteolin and kaempferol (which I'd never heard of before).

He also recommended the same supplements for PN that MrsD suggests with the addition of carnosine, ascorbate, and natural Vitamin E.

I also read somewhere, I think his web site, where he's on the Board for Life Extension Foundation--I remember Wings used to pass on info from them quite a bit on the old board.

Joan

[mrsD]

Thanks for bringing this information here, Joan.

I looked up Dr. Blaylock and lipoic acid and found this:
http://w3.newsmax.com/blaylock/15.cfm

Because his newsletter is a pay for each issue, it is not quoted on the net specifically.

But I wonder if he really said r-lipoic, or did he use the alpha lipoic term?

The 300-600mg is really the dose for alpha form, not r-form.
The r- is so much more potent, I am wondering if it is a misprint or even a mis-statement by him? Almost all the papers on lipoic acid, involve alpha form. And I know he does research the studies about things quite a bit.

Can you respond to that newsletter, since you are a subscriber?
If so, could you ask this question in a email to him?

Here is an interesting comparison of stabilized R--lipoic and non stabilized lipoic.... stabilized R-lipoic should be on the label of what you buy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9NaaKvRD3A

I wonder if that comparison is really between two R-lipoics even, since the color is so different.

This is the brand I use sometimes....
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals...lets/1507?at=0
And I notice it has a yellowish cast to the tablet!
The label does not say, "stabilized" on it either.

Here is another brand:
http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-B...aps/23168?at=0
It explains the difference with non-stabilized R-lipoic.
But notice the price is much higher...this bottle for 180caps.

And this one does not say if it is stabilized and is VERY expensive for 60
http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research...aps/18591?at=0

Here is what LEF says....
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...poic-Acid.html

So it seems that the stabilized is better... so far. I will continue looking around. I've used both Doctor's Best and Source Naturals. I wonder if this difference is why my blood sugar does not respond to R-lipoic? I think I've used the Source Naturals mostly recently, in fact.????????????????

[Joano]

I rechecked the newsletter, and he did say R-lipoic acid in a couple of places even. I can ask the question as he answers questions from readers on the last page every month.

The R-lipoic acid I have right now is from Country Life, and it's a capsule, sorta cream in color, 60 capsules, 100 mg and doesn't say "stabilized." I have switched around from brand to brand when ordering, and I'll try the "stabilized" form next time I order. Since it's higher priced, that probably explains my choice in getting the non-stabilized form! The Alpha Lipoic Acid used to upset my stomach; however, the R-lipoic does not, at least the un-stabilized; but maybe it's not doing anything for me either????

Joan

[mrsD]

Well, I'm doing some experiments on my Source Naturals.

They come in a bottle with TWO moisture packets. My tablets lived here all summer, in 90+ weather sealed up, and were not damaged in any visible way.

The reason I think Dr. Blaylock is confused is that there are studies on ORAL Alpha lipoic (racemic) going up to 1800mg a day.

But r-lipoic is supposed to be so much stronger, 6-10 times is the claim, that I can't imagine taking 1800mg a day of it. It would be very expensive!

I took 1/2 tablet of mine, and crushed it and mixed with water-- tap water at room temp...and also heated water from the microwave.

The heated water created little globs of a plastic like material...which did stick to my spoon. I tried mixing in an oil, since lipoic is part lipophilic and part hydrophilic and not much difference.

I put 1/4 tablet uncrushed in water, and in 15 minutes is started to get gummy.

This is from the ralapure website:
http://www.ralapure.com/r-alpha-lipoic-acid-review.asp
Now, this may just be a "trick" to convince people to buy theirs, of course.

Wiki does not address the stabilized claims. Stabilized is a sodium salt, and hence water soluble. It is very possible the ALA racemic and non-stabilized are absorbed using bile salt emulsification.

The old racemic form of ALA has been used orally with success for over a decade in studies. I am suspecting the the ralapure version (stabilized) is easier to pour and thus feed hoppers in tablet/capsule machines, and easier to handle in general.

ALA has been called an antioxidant, and as such is by nature unstable. Vit C is unstable and discolors, along with many other antioxidants.

Somehow old ALA... before r-lipoic was made, seemed to work!
http://www.soc-bdr.org/content/e4/e8...showfulltext=1

This is from Linus Pauling institute:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...la/#metabolism

Pharmacokinetic studies in humans have found that about 30-40% of an oral dose of racemic LA is absorbed (12, 13). Oral LA supplements are better absorbed on an empty stomach than with food. Taking racemic LA with food decreased peak plasma LA concentrations by about 30% and total plasma LA concentrations by about 20% compared to fasting (14). After oral dosing with racemic LA, peak plasma concentrations of R-LA were found to be 40-50% higher than S-LA, suggesting R-LA is better absorbed than S-LA (12, 14, 15). Both isomers are rapidly metabolized and excreted. Plasma LA concentrations generally peak in one hour or less and decline rapidly (12, 13, 15, 16). In cells, LA is quickly reduced to DHLA, and studies in vitro indicate that DHLA is rapidly exported from cells (3)....

Racemic vs. R-LA Supplements

R-LA is the isomer that is synthesized by plants and animals and functions as a cofactor for mitochondrial enzymes in its protein bound form (see Biological Activities). Direct comparisons of the bioavailability of oral racemic LA and R-LA supplements have not been published. After oral dosing with racemic LA, peak plasma concentrations of R-LA were found to be 40-50% higher than S-LA, suggesting R-LA is better absorbed than S-LA, but both isomers are rapidly metabolized and eliminated (12, 14, 15). In rats, R-LA was more effective than S-LA in enhancing insulin-stimulated glucose transport and metabolism in skeletal muscle (44), and R-LA was more effective than racemic LA and S-LA in preventing cataracts (71). However, virtually all of the published studies of LA supplementation in humans have used racemic LA. At present, it is not clear whether R-LA supplements are more effective than racemic LA supplements in humans.

I am really glad you bought this subject here today, Joan.

It appears that even though ALA is not soluble in water, it seems to make it to the blood stream where it can be measured.

I guess I will have to spring for Ralapure forms and then see if my morning glucoses are different! Doctor's Best is one brand that has that on the label. There are others too.

But the common theme, is to take on an empty stomach for best results. I guess I will be taking it in the morning from now on.

[Joano]

I just checked iHerb's reviews of R-lipoic acid, and one person commented that his doctor recommended it for PN, and that was the 300 mg stabilized form, and it was working. That's encouraging, to say the least. Most of the comments were from people happy with their lowered sugar readings and the higher doseage didn't seem to be a problem.

There is really a wide discrepancy in price between suppliers though.

Joan

[mrsD]

Remember people are different. Our bodies make lipoic acid in the normal course of life.

So some people may make more than others, depending on lifestyle, drugs used, and genetics. Those with good levels may need less than those who have some error in this metabolism.

It can be a very variable thing. But I don't really think anyone needs 300mg-600mg R-lipoic 3 times a day with meals.... like the newsletter suggests. Everything I've read said to take on empty stomach.

[Joano]

I need to correct a statement I made previously about Country Life R-Lipoic Acid--it says "heat stabilized" alongwith a tiny red thermometer on the label, and I said it wasn't stabilized. The print is so small I had to use my magnifying glass to see it--it also says that it is heat stabilized when you click on it at i-Herb's website. At the time I ordered it, I guess I didn't know what to look for, so I apparently lucked out on this one. Joan

[mrsD]

I am going to order these today. 2 of them. So I can take 200mg to start, for one month. (free shipping with 2)
http://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-S.../dp/B000I4C19G

The LEF product , I looked at closely at-- a review at Amazon gives 300mg /cap of the sodium form... leading to only 210mg of lipoic itself! The Doctor's Best says each cap has 143mg of sodium form to give 100mg/cap lipoic. So at about the same price at Amazon, the Doctor's Best was more "honest".

This trick of giving total milligrams of a supplement happens often with minerals like magnesium. Good labels will say "elemental" content, and poor labels will give final weight which only a portion may be the active thing you want.

If you go to Amazon, be careful of what you click upon... I found the exact product on another page for $44.00! That is a big difference from $14.68! Amazon itself is selling health items now, at very competitive prices, but they also sponsor independent sellers (like their used books) who do not discount prices at all! So be careful to get the lowest price.

This price of Doctor's Best RALA...is about the same as Swanson's, and is free shipping if you buy more than $25. YOu can pick anything at Amazon to make that $25 too as long as it is a "super saver" listed. Music, books, tools, you name it. We get alot of things this way. This summer I found a nice pair of utility shears (in fact these shears are the same some EMTs use for rescue efforts) for about $8.00 that I would have to have driven all over to find here! I bought those and added my Theanine and a book for hubby and had them all sent to our vacation location free! It was a time saver, money saver, and convenience! So do look around Amazon when thinking of getting some supplements. They carry Doctor's Best products it appears.

Thanks again Joan...this thread has turned out to be very good and a new learning experience!

[Nervous]

Funny this should come up at this time. About two weeks ago, I increased my dose of R-Lipoic from 100 mg to 300 mg per day. I felt generally better and had a little more energy. Then, I went to 400 mg per day, which is where I am at now. I can't say that my PN is any better yet, but I like this dose so far.

Note: I am using Doctor's Best "Best Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid Featuring Bio-Enhanced Na-RALA."

[Apollo]

Originally Posted by Joano

It seems he is talking more and more about PN--the last 3 months he's mentioned something about it in each newsletter. Maybe it's because the incidence of PN has increased greatly in statin users so he's receiving more inquiries.

He said tremors could be a symptom of PN, along with the other more common ones, pain, tingling, etc. I remember someone asking about tremors a while back and several responded that they, too, were experiencing them. Sometimes when I'm in a time bind, or feel pressure somehow, I notice my head bobbling, but I do seem to be able to control this to a degree.

Another interesting thing he discussed was R-lipoic acid helping diabetic neuropathy at 300 to 600 mg with each meal. And I remember someone else posting they had benefited from this larger dose. He drew a connection between diabetes and hypertension and said good diet could cure them, with emphasis on plant extracts such as curcumin, quercetin (Dr. Oz likes these too), cinnamon, resveratrol, luteolin and kaempferol (which I'd never heard of before).

He also recommended the same supplements for PN that MrsD suggests with the addition of carnosine, ascorbate, and natural Vitamin E.

I also read somewhere, I think his web site, where he's on the Board for Life Extension Foundation--I remember Wings used to pass on info from them quite a bit on the old board.

Joan

I thought you are supposed to take R-Lipoic Acid on an empy stomach (and not with meals as stated here)?