[NeuroLogic]

My naturopath interpreted the results yesterday, but I wasn't convinced she's in the know on the latest insights about thyroid health.

Since hypothyroidism, some say, can lead to peripheral neuropathy, I wonder if anyone here would venture an opinion on the numbers?

(I've also heard the range doctors use for what is "normal" isn't necessarily valid.)

The results don't seem so extreme that they could cause PN (?), but perhaps could affect it?

[glenntaj]

--the TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is definitely high, indicating your body thinks it is not getting enough thyroid hormone, despite the levels listed, and that through the feedback loop the pituitary is signalling your thyroid to make more.

You're right about the controversy of "normal" ranges. About five years ago now, the American Academy of Endocrinology recommended that the "normal" range for TSH should be revised downward, from the old .5-5.5 range to .3-3.0 or so. The feeling was that there were subtle cases of hypothyroidism being missed in that 3-5.5 range; and that optimal ranges of TSH for many people (there is considerable variation in how people feel and what symptoms of hypothyroidism--fatigue, brittle hair, weight gain, etc., they feel at the upper end of the old range) were around 2 or lower. But many doctors, it seems, haven't "gotten the memo". (Mary Shomon talks about this at her About.com thyroid sites--she's a fountain of information about thyroid issues.)

Still, your TSH reading warrants further investigation, especially if you are symptomatic. Tests for autoimmune antibodies to thyroid tissue/hormone and an investigation by ultrasound to look for nodules would be warranted. Are you experiencing hypothyroid symptoms?

[hopeful]

ILf this bloodwork was ordered by your primary doctor I would suggest getting an appt with an endocronolgist. They look at thyroid levels a little differently.

[mrsD]

Body temp on arising, and carotene deposition in the skin
are both really strong symptoms.

Other symptoms are more vague.

Low thyroid also leads to elevated cholesterol levels.
If yours is normal, that suggests your thyroid is working still.

You have to call around, and ask THE QUESTION. "Does this doctor treat according to the new scale?"

In the end you can beg. I have been known to beg convincingly.
If you frame your request conservatively, and ask to try, low dose for a few months, there is no harm really. The body will adjust to any externally given hormone and even out. Staying below 100mcg is considered safe for your bones.

[NeuroLogic]

Originally Posted by glenntaj

--the TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is definitely high, indicating your body thinks it is not getting enough thyroid hormone, despite the levels listed, and that through the feedback loop the pituitary is signalling your thyroid to make more.

You're right about the controversy of "normal" ranges. About five years ago now, the American Academy of Endocrinology recommended that the "normal" range for TSH should be revised downward, from the old .5-5.5 range to .3-3.0 or so. The feeling was that there were subtle cases of hypothyroidism being missed in that 3-5.5 range; and that optimal ranges of TSH for many people (there is considerable variation in how people feel and what symptoms of hypothyroidism--fatigue, brittle hair, weight gain, etc., they feel at the upper end of the old range) were around 2 or lower. But many doctors, it seems, haven't "gotten the memo". (Mary Shomon talks about this at her About.com thyroid sites--she's a fountain of information about thyroid issues.)

Still, your TSH reading warrants further investigation, especially if you are symptomatic. Tests for autoimmune antibodies to thyroid tissue/hormone and an investigation by ultrasound to look for nodules would be warranted. Are you experiencing hypothyroid symptoms?

Thanks. I have Mary's book, but need to go back and finish reading it. She's done a tremendous amount of work and I like the way she writes.

As far as my symptoms, possibly due to hypo:

* core temperature consistently low (96s, sometimes 95s)

* fatigue

* decreased sweating

I still think it could be ATP-related. I'm not going to start any meds for it until I know. A lot of doctors seem to assume it's primary/secondary without seeing if it's tertiary.

I asked the doc, "Is it primary, secondary, or tertiary?" She didn't give me a straight answer.

My concern is that if I raise the core temperature with thyroid meds, it will increase my already high skin temperature, and that cause worse PN/more damaged nerves.

I'm planning to do more testing, incl. oxidative injury &/ mitochondrial damage.

[NeuroLogic]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Body temp on arising, and carotene deposition in the skin
are both really strong symptoms.

Other symptoms are more vague.

Low thyroid also leads to elevated cholesterol levels.
If yours is normal, that suggests your thyroid is working still.

You have to call around, and ask THE QUESTION. "Does this doctor treat according to the new scale?"

In the end you can beg. I have been known to beg convincingly.
If you frame your request conservatively, and ask to try, low dose for a few months, there is no harm really. The body will adjust to any externally given hormone and even out. Staying below 100mcg is considered safe for your bones.

How do we know that the thyroid functions exactly the same way every day?

Has anyone ever got two different sets of results in a short time span (say a week) for their thyroid?

It seems to me that a thyroid could behave differently depending on many different factors related to stress and what's going on in your life.

My body functions very differently after eight hours of sleep and a normal work day than it does after six hours and surprise stress. Would the bloodwork be the same for both days?

I'm interested in further testing, esp. since it's only $25/draw.

[mrsD]

Originally Posted by NeuroLogic

How do we know that the thyroid functions exactly the same way every day?

we don't.... tests are always a snapshot in time.

Has anyone ever got two different sets of results in a short time span (say a week) for their thyroid?

this would be unusual except for those who have had the thyroid removed or surgery of the thyroid to remove nodules, etc. Most people don't have tests that close together.

It seems to me that a thyroid could behave differently depending on many different factors related to stress and what's going on in your life. The thyroid makes T4 mostly but some T3. When there is stress, more T3 is made for emergencies. (like trauma, surgery, illness etc)

I've answered these comments in red.

The long term signs of elevated cholesterol and skin color changes do not change rapidly...and indicate to the doctor hypo states. Splitting fingernails, scaly dry skin, eyebrows that are only half visible anymore, loss of hair, enlarged tongue, are other signs that are longer term also.

[mrsD]

One thing you might try:

an iodine supplement. I 'd do a natural kelp product, at double dose, for say 2 months or 3, and see if you feel better.

If you do not have enough iodine to make your hormone with, that could give confusing test results. You could try 2 a day.
I use this because I don't use iodized salt, and I had a goiter at one time.

This is the one I use.
http://www.puritan.com/kelp-571/sea-kelp-000623

There is a group of people who use very HIGH iodine and I am unsure whether this is safe. So I don't endorse it.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...FUcCQAodCUgAKA
You could ask your new naturapath for comments.
Iodine is supposed to be conserved in the body by the kidneys, but it is conceivable that that process can fail for some reason, and thus the person loses the iodine.

Here is an eMedicine article on Iodine:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/122714-overview

[NeuroLogic]

Originally Posted by mrsD

One thing you might try:

an iodine supplement. I 'd do a natural kelp product, at double dose, for say 2 months or 3, and see if you feel better.

If you do not have enough iodine to make your hormone with, that could give confusing test results. You could try 2 a day.
I use this because I don't use iodized salt, and I had a goiter at one time.

This is the one I use.
http://www.puritan.com/kelp-571/sea-kelp-000623

There is a group of people who use very HIGH iodine and I am unsure whether this is safe. So I don't endorse it.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...FUcCQAodCUgAKA
You could ask your new naturapath for comments.
Iodine is supposed to be conserved in the body by the kidneys, but it is conceivable that that process can fail for some reason, and thus the person loses the iodine.

Here is an eMedicine article on Iodine:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/122714-overview

I've got some organic kelp powder, but didn't know the right dose. I'm going to get my kidneys tested, because I want to make sure I can take high Mg doses that don't cause problems. Good to know it'd also help with kelp.

Recommended Reading:

When Should Thyroid Patients Get A Second Opinion? Interview by Mary Shomon

[NeuroLogic]

You notice that I didn’t include blood tests for your TSH, free T4, and free T3 levels. These tests are of limited value. They are meaningful only when they are way out of range. If they are in-range or close to in-range, they are useless in telling you whether you have enough thyroid hormone regulation. The only thing they tell us is the effect of the pituitary’s TSH on the thyroid gland, and the effect of the thyroid gland’s hormones on the pituitary. They tell us nothing whatever about the effects of thyroid hormone on the cells of any other body tissues. To infer from the levels of these hormones the thyroid or metabolic status of other tissues is not only indirect—it’s a wild and scientifically-unsound inference.

http://www.drlowe.com/QandA/askdrlowe/dxthyrd.htm

So this is great. First we have the supremely intelligent doctors using a thyroid test for several years (or decades?) with a reliable range of tests result for what it "normal."

Then we get the doctors conceding they made a huge mistake on what is the real healthy range. "Normal" is revised dramatically.

And now at least one doctor is saying the conventional testing and/or its interpretation is bogus.

Who wants to be a doctor?