...My ongoing debate about neuropathy and PN is with a new friend I met on the net recently. He's another person other than me, that has PN from antibiotic use although it's not the same antibiotic - I feel that there is a great similarity in treating it. I could be wrong.

Here is our argument. I feel that drinking beer or any alcohol is not a good idea for anyone with PN. In a nutshell, if you can't stop drinking entirely, you should limit your alchol use and when you do, make sure to lessen the load some by drinking a small amount of beer over a long amount of time...meaning stretch out your beer by drinking slow so that you do not drink more than you should.

I feel this buffers your body from too much alcohol while your body processes the drinks. Also drinking a lot of water, as well as eating a decent meal afterwards seem to help me.

After my PN I never drank enough beer to get a hangover and I never was a heavy drinker to begin with so I "Buzz" pretty fast anyway.

But, like me, sometimes it is difficult not to drink a few cans of beer (about 4 light Beers) every other weekend or so, especially during holidays and social events (the only time I drink.)

I only drink light beer which has a fairly low alcohol content in it. I don't drink more than a six pack (most times about 3/4 beers max) and if I do drink that week it's only for that one day of the week.

My friend believes that since his PN is not from alcoholic roots that he can drink more than that. I'm not saying this guy drinks a lot. He does not, and in fact, probably drinks not much more than me, about two days out of the week and around a six pack - still that is at least double the amount that I drink. I also avoid all hard liquor. While this guy will drink a shot of Vodka from time to time.

He says that for alcohol to affect nerves, even damaged nerves, you have to drink hard liquor, or an amount of beer much larger than a 6 pack - or drink a few every other day to affect your nerves.

I'm no expert, but I disagree with this. I think alchol can start irritating your nerves after just a few beers for most people. I often feel quite well with no flare-ups for days or weeks even after I drink 5 beers, but I rarely drink that much. Truthfully I simply don't know the answers to our debate.

As he says, peoples' tolerances for alcohol are all different and points out a diabetic friend of ours with PN that drinks over a 6-pack nearly every Saturday.

I often feel some peer-pressure to drink, mainly from depression when I'm at a social event -I want to feel that happy little buzz and join the party - but I'm very wary of how much and what I drink.

Personally, I feel anyone with PN shouldn't be drinking alchol at all, but I know this could be difficult for some, including me.

Does anybody here have similar feelings on these ideas? I hope I get some replies on this as I think this is one issue that many people often think about.

...

Here is a graphic showing equivalence of various alcoholic drinks:

http://rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih....ndarddrink.asp

Hence 4 whiskeys (6oz) = 4 -- twelve oz beers.

The body does not separate out what form the alcohol is in.
A breath test by a police officer will register intake independently from the type of alcohol consumed.

Remember CONGENERS in various drinks may affect nerves, as well as gluten (beers) and yeasts.(in wines and beers).
This is what a congener is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congener
Congeners are thought to create hangovers. Hence the quality charcoal filtered vodkas, which have them removed.

People with gluten intolerance will have significant reactions to beers independently from the alcohol content. There are gluten free beers with alcohol in them.

It is highly idiosyncratic how people with PN will respond to various alcoholic beverages, therefore.

% alcohol content of beers:
http://www.alcoholcontents.com/beer/

If you are still taking that clonazepam, you should avoid alcohol consumption, but you probably know that already.

--Thank you, mrsD: this is very helpful. I'm actually surprised at how many people ask me about drinking beer and nonalcoholic neuropathy. ...Especially at this time of the year.

For me, I don't feel any flare-up from drinking a few beers on the weekend, but then again, I'm very cautious about it and limit my drinking to low alcoholic beer and just a few over a few hours. Now that I think of it -about 4 beers in 4 hours. I "Buzz" quickly so I never drink more than a 6-pack on a drinking day.

I skip a week a lot, too, sometimes not drinking a beer for over 2 weeks or so. But honestly with the holiday parties coming up, it seems harder to dodge the urge to sip a few.

I do not mix Clonazepam with alcohol or - leastwise I don't think I do. There's at least 8 hours to a full day between me drinking a few beers and taking a clonazepam.

But this was not always the case - months ago, I would take the 0.5 pill about 3 hours or so after a few beers. The only thing I noticed then was an increased drowsiness. Still, I do my best to avoid it and certainly never mix them outright.

I want to thank you for the uplifting post on toxic PN. I didn't take Cipro, but took Flagyl and had an EXTREME reaction.

I've gotten extremely painful PN. Everywhere in my body. This all started in March this year (2013.). I also have very bad headaches/head pressure. It's made me very depressed and hopeless as it seems to get worse, but I agree it is much worse with depression, anxiety, and stress.

I hope there is some recovery for this. I am a young mother of two babies and and struggling to take care of them over pain.

I had taken Metronidazole (Flagyl) for about a week an entire year before, I took Cipro for a Diverticulitis infection. That might have added to me getting PN, when, a full year later, I took the Cipro. However, I don't believe this is true, as a primary cause -- it was most likely the mix of Clonazepam (a Benzo-drug like Xanax) and Naproxin (Ibuprofen or Aleive) that made the CNS PN worse.

For you, personally, I suggest you keep in mind that you WILL heal. It will take time and you have to be strong for yourself and your family. Don't expect people to understand your pain, either - because this is an "Invisible affliction" people often don't understand. Just do things that keep your mind off of the pain.

I strongly urge you to keep a daily journal, where you can track your healing progress. If not a journal, make a small note on a calendar each day, to gauge how you feel. I do both. When I'm feeling down from pains, I look back at that journal and see that without a doubt, I AM healing -you should do the same; I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

Now, here's some really great news for you: Most people suffering from PN caused by Flagly DO heal, and they do so much faster than those from fluoroquinolones drugs. I got this information from a doctor at the Chicago Center for Peripheral Neuropathy. I pasted the link to that site below.

Also, only recently, I started to take a vitamin called Acetyl-L-carnitine. After around 2 months of taking this, I must admit that I am feeling quite a bit better, with a huge reduction in pains. This is probably due to it's proven effectiveness in regenerating nerve cells and more so, its analgesic effects to stop you from feeling as much pain.

I do not know if it will work for you, but it's something you should research for yourself. ...May God bless you with well health.

Link below (Chicago Center fo PN)
http://peripheralneuropathycenter.uc...ic/drugs.shtml

As a PN sufferer fron dapsone i agree with you that alcohol is a trigger for iritating the nerves i have expereinced that a couple of times.

When i first got this i found a capucturist with a background in neuroligy and he adviced me to take Alpha lipioc acid&Acetyl L-Carnitine and borage oil.
Its a different aproach then what you have taken.

So why take these vitamines?What reseaurch have you done to support this approach?I am very curouis.

I am now 6 years into this PN thing.
If i mountain bike 35 km i will get a very nasty flare-up for about a week where i dont like my feet.
The same goes for doing squats so i am really limited at this moment which is a big frustration.
My PN developt a completly diverrently,in my case it developt very slowly and got wurse over time.I dodnt experience the pain that goes with dying nerves.
What is very uncomfortable are the flare-ups mostly after a sport activity,somethimes if i really feel good even the numbness is less dominant.

Your post gave me hope, as I am freaked out. Just took the antibiotic for 3 days (for a bad cold/painful sore throat/ear pain) and that was it, within 72 hours, I felt the symptoms. I had been diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy 5 years ago (due to pinched nerve/disk issue), but after rehab, the symptoms went away (numb arms/hands) at night. This time, I get day symptoms during the day, tingling, burning, hands, feet, etc. Hard to tell which way it's trending right now, but it's scary. I wish I had known of this side effect, as I would never have taken this drug. Your words gave me hope. I'll try the vitamins.

How are you feeling?

Jesse M Please message me regarding the Cipro induced toxicity. I have a very severe case of it and could really use some help.

This is going to be a very long post, almost a darn book. LOL But please bare with me -there is some important things said here.

First off, understand this: Despite what some people say this is NOT permanent -it may be long-lasting, but it will get better over time.

Neuropathy is not the disease itself, but symptoms caused by something else. They can have very different causes and each person is unique and WILL have a different length of healing.

If you have Cipro damage it is similar but definitely NOT the same as pn from diabetes, chemo-therapy, or anything else. The cause is much different and so can the outcome.

My advice is to find the right treatment right away. (This is, in actually healing the nerves via a strong and careful vitamin regiment) This has indeed helped me tremendously. I do not take medicines to treat the pain of Neuropathy.

I do take 1 low-dose anxiety pill (Clonozepam 0.5) per day, as I had anxiety before Cipro-pn anyway. But this does NOT mask the pain, it simply stops some of the activity in the brain that causes stress. (I checked with my doctor on that). But I do NOT suggest taking anything like Clonozepam since it can be very addicting for some.

I do take quite a few well-chosen vitamins, but no drugs. The reason for this is because I could honestly gauge how I am healing and the news is positive.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I learned that I had to discover, research, and treat myself, mostly because many neurologists, or many doctors for that matter, don't even want to acknowledge that Cipro causes such horrible PN. Still I have found several doctors who DO cite Cipro and its relatives as very harmful drugs.

Right away, I kept and continue to keep a daily journal (very important) of my progress on both a regular paper calendar and a MS word file. It has now been 9 months since I quit taking that Cipro and I am still suffering from its neuropathy pain, almost all nerve pain. But it has dropped considerably since it first hit.

I know this beyond a doubt, because I keep a journal of my healing where my healing strides have been clearly recorded. There was a time when I had bad pains all day, every day, for nearly 2 months.

These included, burning, needle stings, cramps and stabbing pains. And they could occur anywhere on my body, but mostly in my feet and hands. They made me think of suicide very often - this mostly from the false notion that it is permanent.

Then, it started to just be light pains, then to slight pains and now to slight pains throughout the day but some week-long flare ups every month, - but there are many days during the month were I feel quite fine, with only very light, barely noticeable pains -the kind I could live with without hindering my happiness or quality of life. ...And that is the goal to reach. Remember that.

Regarding so-called "permanent" nerve damage: any expert doctors in PN (Such as the CCPN "Chicago Center for Peripheral Neuropathy" ) will tell you that permanent damage occurs only in extreme cases. But even in extreme cases, your nerves can heal to quite a degree.

The problem is that no one can tell you if you have an extreme case or not, as the tests for nerve damage are not well understood and people's bodies vary so differently regarding tolerance of the drug.

This is important: You have to understand this, too - you do NOT have to heal completely to live a happy, unhindered life. All you have to reach is a certain point where the pain is not affecting you much. Trust me - that alone will be more than enough to make you jump for joy. Even still, if you can reach that point, you'll probably heal up completely as the years pass.

Certainly I once felt I had an extreme case, but since I'm healing at a pretty fast rate - I now feel that was not the case.

Today, currently; I still suffer from Cipro induced nerve pain and damage. But it comes and goes in cycles. I do feel slight or light pains everyday, but they are sometimes not even noticeable. Some are just weird, like a sudden pinprick on the top of my scalp or even a sharp pain on the tip of my tongue. Nerve pains hit anywhere they like at any time, but don't worry, they do go away as quickly as they came, that is the nature of these little flare-ups.

Very often a flare-up of pain will come simply due to your nerves healing -this is a painful process itself.

However, when I am in a flare-up, they can be downright disabling, even causing me to have mini-seizures and mental meltdowns. Still, these huge flare-ups only last about 5 days (far shorter than they did only months ago.)

Now for the wonderful part: I average about 18 "Near Normal" days per month now. This means over the last 3 months, out of 30 days per month, about 15 to 18 of those days, I feel literally Nearly Normal - meaning just having very slight almost unnoticeable pains. If I could get to that point for the whole month, that would be enough for me - I'd be very happy with that indeed. Meaning that I do not have to heal completely to live a really happy life, though I still hope for it.

As I'm writing this, I'm coming off a 2-day flare-up which could have been caused or irritated by extreme weather changes (More than 2 days of rain in a row usually does it for me) that, or high emotional stress.

Also you have to keep trying to take care of yourself. Consider this: I have never been a heavy drinker in my life, but since I got PN I have been tempted to drink beer to ease and escape my stress.

This is NOT a good idea as alcohol effects the nerves. However, I do drink about a 6-pack of light beer for 1 Saturday of the weekend now - making sure I take ALL my B vitamins to hinder any alcohol related nerve damage. ( BTW, Alcoholic Neuropathy is caused by either the poisoning of the nerves with alcohol OR by the depletion of B vitamins - no one is yet certain). ABout B-Vitamins; try not to take too much B-6, this can cause pn to worsen.

Still, though I don't drink much, I am trying to cut down my alcohol consumption. This is not as easy as it sounds, since I'm always so tempted to join-the-fun on the weekend and forget about my stresses. Also, I have to drop my anxiety pill those days as well because they don't mix well with beer.

What I'm getting at, is it's tough to discipline yourself and no one is perfect, just keep trying to do things like drink less alcohol, less overtly sweet sugars and brush your teeth with a NON-fluoride toothpaste like Toms of Main - just avoid anything that can, or might, irritate your condition. People tolerate different things in different ways, so what works for you may not work for others. It's a trial and error process concerning what irritates your personal symptoms. Even the weather can be a big factor if it gets too hectic. Above all, do not take anymore antibiotics or drugs that have even the slightest chance to worsen neuropathy.

However, please don't get fanatical about it - moderation in taking in anything is the key, otherwise, you'll stress yourself out about it and make yourself worse! I certainly did more than a few times.

More so, do NOT - and I repeat this: do NOT take in all the internet forum "horror-stories" of Neuropathy. I did this and I got very, very depressed! They are misleading, because they do not tell your personal story, so they do not help you. Stick to positive posts...Please trust me on this. It makes a big difference on how you feel and also keeps your mind on the reality of the condition which is not a "Doomed" scenario.

There is no doubt that people can and do heal from Cipro induced peripheral Neuropathy. You don't see it much on the net, because people just want to leave that horrible experience behind them, let alone write about it. I, myself, feel like that and I'm just starting to really heal up...and I still find it tough to write about it.

Now, each month I feel a little bit better and I'm so glad about that. Thank God. And I Know that you will too.

I have found another young doctor who knows about this and has given me the advice below, which I hope can help you too. I found him to be the most accurate of all the docs I've seen so far. He's the only doctor who read my personal medical records fully about Cipro-induced pn, and he believes that I will heal either near completely or truly completely within about 2 year’s time. While examining me off and on the record, he personally said this to me: He told me these exact words;

“It’s a very bad side effect from Cipro. You shouldn’t be afraid, it’s NOT permanent. Don’t listen to the stuff you read on the Internet, those people are NOT you – every person is different, they have different causes for their problems. It will go away and it’s just a matter of TIME before it fades away. God made our bodies to heal. In the meantime, keep taking your vitamins, take something for anxiety and pain and also to relax and not think about the pain, keep your mind on other things and time should pass more easily. You will heal, be patient and go on living your life the best that you could.”

I really hope this helped you all.

After making some radical changes to my diet and lifestyle, I've seen major improvements in nerve pain. I had to cut out all grains, (wheat, rice, oats, etc), dairy, soy, sugar, coffee, alcohol, processed foods or beverages, and nuts (these can be inflammatory). I only eat organic or grass fed foods and drink distilled or purified water. Plus, I exercise lightly for now - walking, yoga, or light biking. And on top of all that, I take high doses of magnesium (including Epsom salt baths), vitamin D, B12, CQ10, and quite a few other supplements. Sleep and managing stress are important too.

Although extreme and these changes have not been NOT easy, the idea is to reduce inflammation in the body which reduces pain and allows for healing. Since I didn't know what specifically caused inflammation for me, I cut out everything that possibly could and will slowly add foods back down the road. So far, this regimen has worked for me and if I follow it ever day, the pain is very well managed. If I vary from this regime, then the pain comes back. For example, I ate a few servings of rice and nuts two weeks ago, and suffered for five days because of it.

One online book I would highly recommend is "The Levaquin Tendonitis Solution". It provides a lot of good information about supplements and the healing process after Quinolone toxicity.