We as PN sufferers have been dealt a bad hand of cards, but even a bad hand can have an Ace or Wild-Card in it, so I never give up hope.
I love the way you say things. You sound so much like me on most days.

I am sorry to hear about the MRI results. I know how hard it can be to hear unwanted news. What type of abnormalities did they find in your brain?

I have no fear of death, it the ultimate pain killer. I also would like to think there is another side where we all get to hang out with friends and family already passed on however I struggle with the concept of dinosaurs and their place in the bible . Until its clearly explained to me I will need to sit on the fence..

We have a forum here on the subject of suicide, for support of members who contemplate this or relatives of suicide victims.

There is a new post on this subject of illness, in fact there today.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread191358.html

If any here need further support, the experienced members there are very helpful and wise.

You sound like a prime candidate for " soul retrieval " , if you can abandon enough of your linear thinking to entertain the idea .

I had a similar issue of shame from a breaking a powerful agreement / vow I made with myself - nothing could shift that shame , but when it did ( namely though a shaman ) I was like a new person again - or rather the one I was before I broke vow.

Its not unusual if your the sensitive type as you sound , and as I am to be affected profoundly by events - esp if their from your childhood or distant past.

First off, in the Bible, time is a moot point. There was no such word or concept of "Billions or Trillions" at the time it was written. This goes for all ancient texts.

So when describing long lengths of time, they used words that are quite abstract - analogies such as over many moons - or similar verses. Actually, it was scribes long after the Bible was already written that put together a date of the earth according to Biblical standards, where as the Bible does not have an actual date for such things.

Sure, there is the saying the world was created in 7 days, but here we face another problem - numerical metaphors. You may notice 1 day is not always used the same way in the Bible: An example: 1 day for man is so-and-so, while 1 day to God is far, far, different. So whose to say it wasn't 1 hundred, thousand, or even billions of years - or if time even has any real merit to the story? To me, the messages in the Genesis story are quite clear and have little to do with time.

Nor does the Bible mention an Apple in Genesis. People simply hear preachers say these things, then their minds latch on to them. Like repeated words in an overplayed pop song.

Even the famous quote "All people are created Equal" is almost always being attributed as coming from the Bible when it does not. (It actually came from Abraham Lincoln). Don't believe me? Ask some of your friends where it comes from and you'd be surprised how few get it right.


Dinosaurs are just one of millions of species that evolved on planet earth via "Natural Selection" then went extinct. Evolution is just one way that God (whom ever he/she/it is) uses to construct life.

The very word "Evolution" means to "Unfold" and it describes the system well, as we are learning that many types of evolution are still unfolding today: Example, Gradual Evolution, Punctual Equilibrium, and Convergent Evolution - we ourselves, through genetic experimentation, are actually controlling evolution for the first time in natural history.

Want your next baby to have blue or green eyes? That can be done. Want to clone a pet? That can be done. Evolution, the way nature intended, is now at risk from our own tampering.

There may very well be other types of evolution on other planets, or perhaps a species that is capable of spontaneously replicating themselves, -after all, our primitive computers today can do this, and they did not have billions of years to achieve this.

Point being that the creator probably has more ways to create and evolve life, if we ourselves can already manipulate it. This notion is just one of many to account for why so many scientists still believe in God.

The Bible does mention some descriptions of extinct creatures such as "Behemoths" and others, but that's not the point. The Bible was written by very talented, ancient scholars that studied ancient history as it occurred, then passed it on to future scribes.

The Bible as well as the other ancient religious tomes were written to enlighten people about life morals and the consequences of certain choices -though it was never intended to enforce them. Yet make no mistake about it; there are indeed very accurate historical incidents in the Bible - the existence of King Herod, Pontius Pilot, and others. So it is also a historical text, as well as a morality tome.

This is an oddity today, as most moral books are NOT mixed with historical, documented accounts. A stark reminder of just how different times were back then.

It's this particular point that many (not all) atheist get confused over.

Unfortunately, many gospels were purposely cut out, or simply lost - some have been found in recent decades, including the gospel of Mary Magdalene and Judas, as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls...this just to name a few.

These gospels that are not part of Greek Orthodox or the King James Bible are often referred to as Gnostic Gospels.

There is a very stern importance between interpretation and what people consider "literal" occurrences.

The Bible is among many other religious texts that face a similar problem. However, the Bible itself is not at fault - rather it is the way certain people interpret it.

In fact, most or possibly ALL, divisions in church and mainstream religions segregate or part, because of their different interpretations about the same religion.

This could be seen today with many Christan groups, as well as Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu sects, not to mention the Asian religious-philosophies, too.

The problems stems from preachers (whatever religious leaders they are) who interpret a religion a certain way, then push their own vision of the religion on their audience, thus twisting what the original text meant to teach and say.

Here are some examples: Because of some literal interpretations of religious texts, some women can't wear pants or cut their hair short. Others can't drive a car. Some boys are circumcised (an unnatural thing in nature) while some are persecuted because of their sexual preference or even race.

Now, keep in mind, that the religions themselves are not bad, but unfortunately there are far too many preachers (I'm talking in the millions now) that have perverted the real messages of many religions.

Also all religions, whether it be philosophical ones, such as Buddhism, or even Christianity, do mean to tell very important messages as metaphors.

In fact, Jesus Christ himself had a teaching style where he admits he taught in parables. This was and still is a wonderful way to teach some fantastically important morals about life.

Consider the parable about the "Good Samaritan" - do you think that was a real incident? What Jesus implores here is that it does not mater if it really occurred or not, but that you understand the message of helping each other.

There is even a time where Jesus has to tell his disciples NOT to take one of his parables literally. (This when explaining that the Pharisees scheming is like yeast in bread).

Further more, the great parables about the Smart Farmer who plants his seeds in good soil, as well as the parables about the Father and his two sons, are not only popular morality teachings, but may not be true.

The premise of these is to portray their meaning.

Religion is both a communal entity and a very personal one. And personal CHOICE is paramount. Whether you believe in the so-called miracles in religion is up to you. But what is most certainly important is whether you believe in the moral and the message.

If a child grows up believing Jesus turned water into wine, but does NOT understand his parables; where is the importance in his learning?

It is far more important to believe the message of religions rather than the popularized miracles, or taking metaphors as actual incidents. As it is the morals they offer that help truly enhance one's life.

Okay - as for me, I believe in certain miracles, some I do not - it is my choice to do so, but do not believe they are what makes a religion.

What makes and draws people to religion, and more specifically, to God, is a personal message and inkling to do so. And each is different and unique to everyone of us.

Whether we call God Yahway, Allah, Thor, or Zeus - we are simply doing the same thing -trying to reach our creator and get a little enlightenment on the way - and why not not? Most children would want to know their parents, wouldn't they?

I do just have to step in here and post a reminder about our guidelines on discussion of religion in the forums.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293

The guidelines also refer to our SOS forum
A general discussion of spirituality is fine, but we do not allow spiritual debate under any circumstances, even on the Sanctuary Forum, as the purpose of our forums is for mutual support. Whenever religion becomes debated, feelings get hurt, and disputes arise.
As stated on the Sanctuary forum Thank you.

Abraham Lincoln wrote the Declaration of Independence?

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Guess you didn't get it right either...

Doc

Dude, really?!...Because some felt that the saying in the declaration of independence was not intended for ALL races, ( most of the authors of it had slaves themselves) it became most popular in one of Lincolns' speeches - The Gettysburg Address, where it gained it's more popular and true stance in meaning. You can see this in Lincoln's own words below.

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."


It's further explained by Lincoln in these words below if you don't get the true gist of the saying.

"As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it, "All men are created equal, except Negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read, "All men are created equal except Negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some other country where they make no pretense of loving liberty - to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, without the base alloy of hypocrisy."

-- Lincoln was the first one that said it and MEANT it, but I think you already know that...or were you just kidding? Honestly, I can't tell.

Anyway, I agree, religious debate shouldn't be done here, nor political for that matter. It does interfere with the forum's initial purpose. So I will leave my opinions about it out of this forum. As well as apologize to anyone I might have unintentionally offended.

This should be a place for healing, not debate: I'm sorry if I overexerted my thoughts and beliefs.

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Thanks for understanding Jesse and for the apology

We do also have a guideline re limiting political discussion (same reason...people hold strong views and debates usually end up as battles)

I think perhaps this thread has now run its course, and so I am closing it.