[Stacy2012]

Magnesium low even though I supplement. I take KaL glycinate 400 2 of them and apparently its not working.

Sally, if you happen to read this, do you supplement with magnesium and if so what brand? Or anyone else have a good brand they stand by?

I am probably being depleted due to my stupid bp med, so I am not sure it's the brand or not.

[Sallysblooms]

I use Magna-Calm powder.

[mrsD]

Did you have testing for serum magnesium? Showing low by this means, is serious, and typical of people on diuretic therapy.

A serving of KAL magnesium glycinate is given here:

http://www.nutraceutical.com/search/..._index=4310878

This is old style labeling, and NOT giving elemental content.
(meaning the amount of magnesium only)

This is how Doctor's Best labels its products:
http://www.pureformulas.com/high-abs....UXm3SEkx.dpbs

Serving size 2 = 2000mg mag glycinate/lysinate=
200mg elemental

So this shows elemental is about 10% for this chelate according to Doctor's Best.

When manufacturers give spotty contents, you really don't know what you are getting.
I know Puritan's labels their malate chelate 150mg of mag from 1000mg of the total chelate. Their tablets ARE HUGE... about 1 inch long to get 150mg of magnesium.

So I am thinking your product unless each pill is HUGE... is only delivering 10% of 400mg each serving-- each pill is 200mg (or 20mg mag?) Since the word elemental is NOT used... you don't really know what you are getting in the way of magnesium.

Now that is only the % of magnesium present. Then the second factor is bioavailability.... That is how much is actually absorbed.
I cannot find reliable info on this factor for all the chelates and inorganic types out there. The NIH OIDs site used to have this on it, but it has been reworked and that is missing now.

Then the 3rd factor is acidity of the stomach. Low acid, results in poor absorption of magnesium (and calcium and other things) we know. Acid blocking drugs now have a warning on them that they reduce magnesium absorption. Since you have problems with GERD you may be in the 30% of people who develop achlorhydria (low acid) during aging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria

People with reduced acidity in the stomach are not going to absorb nutrients properly.

This is why using the lotion form of magnesium, may be best for you. Morton's Epsom lotion, is the one I am using with success, and it even lowers my hypertension some so I need much less medication than I used to.
Applying this over visible veins and thinner skin (as in the inner arms and wrist areas) will give good absorption into the blood stream.

It is quite difficult to find proper labeling for oral magnesium products. Only a few manufacturers will give elemental on their labels, so consumers can figure out what they are actually getting. I had to work pretty hard to find the facts for just this one post.

[Stacy2012]

Im not sure MrsD which test was done, she told me then I forgot by the end of the appointment and forgot to get hard copy right then since they usually mail it to me. I will find out. She wasn't alarmed, she just said it was low and I should supplement and I said I had been and she asked what kind but that was all was said.

Sally, thanks, bummer is I think I may not be able to take that kind, when I searched it, it came up along with that nutri calm stuff, which is citrates, which I think causes me heartburn when I take it, or at least the nutrcalm did. I have a feeling I cant take that kind.

MrsD I am using the mag lotion on wrists and inside arms.

Are you suggesting I use dr's Best brand, you think that would work better for me?

Edit to add: the kal pills are pretty huge


thanks

[mrsD]

Well, start applying the lotion more often during the day.

That might be best, since the powdered forms of magnesium usually have citrate (citric acid) in them. This is to aid in solubility and create the ionic state which is better absorbed.

I am thinking your reflux is a sign of achlorhydria, and if so then
none of the orals are going to work for you, with poor acid present.

Increase to twice a day, and see if you feel any different. Apply a larger amount each time too.

Ultimately you will need to change from a diuretic to another blood pressure pill, I think. Avoid ACE inhibitors, and you already had problems with that ARB... so that leaves a beta blocker, perhaps to try. I use atenolol 25mg a day with good results.

[Stacy2012]

Thanks MrsD I will try this.

I want off this diuretic but nobody seems concerned but me. Dr said people stay on it or combination drugs with it forever. He says I am on the lowest dose of it and seems unfazed by my concern....surprise...NOT.

But it is very difficult to doctor yourself when your dr is not on the same page.

I seem to have a problem retaining water even while ON a diuretic, so he says. He said he could tell my joints have retention yesterday, though I can not tell, nor do I understand how he could when it doesn't seem apparent.

anyway thanks for the advice, I'll up the lotion.

[mrsD]

When you use a diuretic you lose sodium, potassium, chloride and magnesium from the urine.

This is an article on hyponatremia. This is a complex problem, but it occurs when sodium levels fall, and then there is a rebound EDEMA. So yes, you could be retaining fluid, while using the diuretic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia

There are several types of hyponatremia. This subject is pretty difficult to understand. I knew an internist at a clinic where I worked who said acid/base and volume issues are really only understood well by kidney specialists!

[mrsD]

Yes, there are people with good kidneys who can tolerate diuretics better than other people.

Here is the drugcite.com entry on hydrochlorothiazide:

http://www.drugcite.com/?q=hydrochlorothiazide

These listed cannot tolerate diuretics well.

Everyone is different. My doctor has never had a patient with
ACE inhibitor angioedema and lupus. Except for me.

But Gerry on PD has had 3 patients DIE from ACE inhibitors (he is a pharmacist), and my son's friend's father had a reaction at the same time I did last spring!

If it is happening to YOU, that is all that matters. Doctors really don't think like the patients. If they had to personally suffer side effects you'd be sure they would get a drug changed too!

[Stacy2012]

Do you have an opinion on what might happen if I just stop this diuretic cold turkey, presuming my BP stays within acceptable limits???

I am still reading the links you have provided, thank you.

When I stopped cold turkey last time I went 11 days and gained like 12 pounds and BP went steadily up but not worriesome. I gave in and took it again as I got scared not knowing if I should continue. I just wonder if my body could rebound from this edema if I went cold turkey. (providing BP stays acceptable)

I have tried to find the answer to that question many ways and get nothing upon internet and dr again is impossible to talk to.

[mrsD]

I will repeat again what I said before.

Start the mag lotion a week before you change anything.
Take your blood pressure twice a day or more during that week.

Then taper off the diuretic to every other day. Still use the mag lotion and still take your blood pressure.

The next week taper to every 2 days off the drug. See what happens then.

Use the mag lotion EVERY DAY in a good amount. However you want to do it... morning and night or whatever.

Unless you approach this carefully and record what happens, you
will not learn anything useful.

Eventually you may be able to get off the drug. But then if your pressures go up, you can ASK for change from your doctor.
If your pressures are not over 140/90, you may be able to go without any drug.

You may have to find another doctor. Keep that in mind.
There is a movement now to not overtreat hypertension...not to overmedicate it. Borderline people, may be able to go without drugs. The magnesium lotion and/or oral may allow many to do this.