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From both perspectives—sinus and/or neuralgia—N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) may help somewhat.
nac neuralgia nac sinusitis Doc |
[QUOTE=mrsD;1053839]Just a reminder... Nortriptyline is not
A "pain" medication like aspirin and or opiates. It works over time in the brain in pain loop Perception area. So taking it for an acute situation will only sedate you (it's main side effect). People with sinus tendencies do better With Mucinex or Robitussin products and decongestants like phenylephrine. There is a new therapeutic movement in Medicine to not use antibiotics so quickly for sinus problems. So some doctors may be following this protocol now. Part of the problem is at times I'm not diagnosed as having a sinus infection, only the pain around the sinus area and eyes - so I get antibiotics. My migraine doctor is convinced that these sinus headaches (and 99% of all "sinus" headaches) are actually migraine headaches. Meanwhile - the migraine aspect doesn't get treated because she is convinced that the only drug that will work is nortriptyline - and I can't take it. I have an appointment with yet another Neurologist in May - I can't accept that this is a un-diagnosable problem. My doctor friend in England thinks it's a neuralgia of some sort, brought on by the bicycle accident in 2008 . Can't someone determine what type of neuralgia and what treatment? The doctors i have seen seem to fall into one of two categories : 1. this really isn't that critical a situation 2. it's migraine and/or migraine-esque and HAS to be treated in that manner. This next neurologist is going to be asked by me - is this a neuralgia and what can be done about it? |
The intense "electric" like pain jolts are back. They just explode with no rhythm or reason.
All I can think of is that my body has become adjusted to flexeril. I have had almost none of these pains since the surgery on Dec. 19th 2014. I honestly hate going to the neurologist who I've seen for years. I have an appointment with a new one in may - how do i describe the pain so that he listens? do I actually ask if it's trigeminal neuralgia? I guess you have to be your own advocate - I have made detailed noted from the time this started right after the bicycle accident in July 2008. What treatments, what medications...... We'll see... |
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I think you answered your own question. Be your own advocate. If you would rather see if the new neurologist comes to trigeminal neuralgia on his own then don't bring it up. You can always bring it up after he/she gives their possible diagnosis. You have done great by writing everything down. Also, write down any questions or suggestions you may have. I believe the thread here under Jane Liz gives a list of tests and blood work for those with neuropathy. If you have not had some of those, bring a list and ask the neurologist if he can order them. I just did this again the other day. I don't insist upon my doctor doing the blood work. I ask what he thinks about doing them and he always says yes. Good luck with your new neurologist:) |
Epsom salt lotion?
I had been talking to a person on this thread "Mrs.?"
and she recommended using Morton Epsom salt lotion for what might be trigeminal neuralgia. I ordered it, but have a question, can a topical lotion actually go deep enough to make any effect on nerves in the brain stem? |
If you are low systemically in magnesium, the body will take it to places where there is a priority. Since magnesium is used by the heart and bones, it mostly goes there.
But it is used in many (actually hundreds) of ways. So if you get the lotion it will work two ways. Firstly it will where applied act initially by leaching thru the skin to the areas below. It will stop cramping, and eases swelling and help the nerves immediately nearby. 2) but some will reach the blood vessels, relax them, and get into the circulation that way....and go all over. At this point, yes, it will get to the brain and then the brain stem. But I think some of your problems are in the surface areas of your head...where those nerves are. So you could try applying it to your neck and back of neck once a day. A dollop about a quarter's diameter goes a long way on the skin. Migraines are thought to be a spastic/contractive disorder of the blood vessel muscles and hence magnesium has always been an treatment for them, and some other types of vascular headaches. When used by doctors, the oral is typically used. Magnesium dilates blood vessels improving blood flow. If you Google "magnesium for migraines" you can find alot of information. If you decide to use oral forms, I think SlowMag, one tablet twice a day is easiest to tolerate, and one tablet twice a day is about the dose to start at. SlowMag is available at WalMart and most affordable there. You have to take oral every day, and try to choose magnesium containing foods to eat. http://www.slowmag.com/ Many magnesium supplements are OXIDE form. Do NOT use this as it is not absorbed and won't work. They are common still and people like the low price...but it is now known thru studies to only be useful as a laxative. |
I've decided not to go to the new neurologist.
I went to my old guy (who never seemed to tell me anything) and either the stars were in perfect alignment or he just had more time, but he really did give me some good advice. He thought that the 700 mg of Tegretol I'm taking is what will eventually calm these sharp pain attacks down, and the fact is, something seems to be working because after my back operation in December of 2013 I have had little if any of the pain that used to be constant. He thinks it a trigeminal neuralgia variant caused by the bicycle accident I had in 2008. He thought that the Morton epsom salt (magnesium)TOPICAL ON MY NECK MADE SOME SENSE, AND THAT THE SLOW MAG i'M TAKING WAS GOOD AS WELL sorry caps....he also has me taking Melatonin at night, just a hunch on his part. At this point I can't see getting another doctor involved - although I do have time and some wiggle room since the appointment I made with this other neurologist is in May,,,, We'll see, but right now things feel good - and I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed a post in my regard....thank all of you! |
For those of you who take Epsom salt baths. Do u also use the lotion on the same day? Not sure if you can use both together.
Hopeful |
I don't think you need both forms of epsom salts... use either one or the other.
Some magnesium is absorbed from both forms... soaking and lotion. I personally think the lotion is vastly superior, as I have used the epsom salts for YEARS. The lotion works for me like a miracle. You can even make a concentrated solution and only make compresses of it, if you don't want to soak in water, or can't because of the location. On vacation one summer I did this for my right knee, and MP pain. It worked really well. But it needs at least an hour and recharging of the cloth you use to apply it. I kept the compress on for at least 15 minutes, and used about 6 oz of epsom salts to 1/2 gallon of warm water in a little tub/pan. I did this outside on the dock. (we don't have running water there and hence no bathtub to soak in.) The sun exposure kept things warm for a good time period too. |
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I will try the compress idea but I think I'm going to use the lotion more. I was wondering if you could go out in the sun with the compress due to the salt. You answered that question. I think I told you this before but I have rather same cat as you. His name is Sam. He show up on our porch one day.:) |
"Glyde 11209;1058956]I've decided not to go to the new neurologist. "
Never say never,,,the electric, pin like jolts of pain have come back. I am using a steroid topical lotion to put out the fire, it seems to work,,I;m also using Nizoral shampoo, both of which point to it being a derotology problem rather than neurological.... Meanwhile the dermatologist has givien me every thing he can thing of and says it is neurological. and the neurologist says that it SEEMS to be trigeminal neuralgia and the 700 mgs of Tegretol should eventually knock it out.... And...the the intense pain comes back. I have the appointment with a new neurologist in May, I'm going to go over everything from the bicycle accident in July of 2008 and hope that he has some insight, and a plan....... |
bump
:bump:
Bumping up the list. I removed 2 duplicate posts today. If you want to move your post to the top, just bump it, like this. Copying posts confuses most people. We even have a smiley for this. |
The electric like sharp jolts of pain are back, taking tegretol 800mg like the doctor said, taking slo-mag, taking NAC, the Mortons liquid on my neck........
I really think I have to get diagnosed by a neurologist, the one that I go to now just say's that "it's from the bicycle accident in 2008 and seems to be located in the brain stem, it might be a variant of trigeminal neuralgia, the tegretol is about the only thing we can do....." I just can't buy that, even though I may have to. I wrote earlier that I was not going to keep the appointment with the new neurologist but now I tend to think I should. My thinking at the time was I was complicating the issue with to many doctors. One more opinion might just help though |
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I didn't want to be bumped either, it was just a mistake, sorry |
That is okay, I just cleaned it up some. That's my job you know.
We are pretty easy going here, but I just wanted you to know how to bump .... if you didn't already. Some people visit here with very few skills or little computer experience. ;) And they sometimes need a little help. |
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The grace period lasted until late May, and now into the first week of June the symptoms are back. I see my (old) neurologist on June 11th and I know pretty much what he is going to tell me "I think this is a carry over from your bicycle accident in 2008, and is probably located in your brain stem" This tells me nothing and I'm not sure what to specifically ask him - what comes to mind is "what is this, and what can be done, and/or what do i do?" As I have mentioned, when these symptoms first appeared (three months after the accident - Sept. 2008) My dermatologist treated this "itching" with steroid hots etc, until it came to all of us that this was a neurological situation. I mention the dermatologist because he now points to significant hair loss as pointing to these "electrical" shocks. I'm at a loss here. I don't know what i have. I'm taking 800 mg of Tegretol. Taking Slo-Mag and anything else that anyone tells me might work, NAC - 3x a day total of 600 mg.... I've read so many posts that people write not knowing what to do - I'm so sympathetic to all of you. |
I thought you might want to read this poster today, Glyde.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread205894.html He has developed scalp pain, as a consequence of coming off Lyrica. His history involves damage to a nerve in his mouth from a tooth extraction years ago. You might want to PM him or post to him and compare notes. |
Cervical Medial Branch Block
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She did listen to me and came to the conclusion that it is the occipital nerve, between c3 and c5 She gave me a Cervical Medial Branch Block and an appointment to see her in 4 weeks.. Today, the day after, I have electric jolts of pain all over the top of my head, in the same pattern I have had since the bicycle accident in 2008. Does this mean that what is causing these jolts of pin point pain is not occipital neuralgia?? Honestly, I was so happy leaving her office yesterday after the procedure because i had no clue that she would really listen, and no idea that she would actually do something during my visit (this procedure) I felt nothing except the left side of my entire head being numb all last night. This morning however - back to the pain. I will call tomorrow and tell her that the medial branch block did absolutely nothing. At that point I will be considered to be a "problem patient" who wants immediate results I'm considering waiting fore a week to see how this pans out, then calling if i need to. I have to say that this doctor is the first one who actually listened, seemed to have a handle on a diagnosis, and did something. The next step if this doesn't work is to do a cervical radiofrequency ablation and then if all else fails, a surgically inserted occipital nerve stimulator. Any thoughts on any of this? I'm optimistic, yet afraid to get any hopes up at this point. |
The cervical nerve block didn't work....it's wednesday and the electric jolts of pain have been back since early Tuesday.
All I can really tell is that the left side of my head was really numb all of Monday night and part of the next morning. I called the doctor who wants me to come in on the 25th - giving this 2 weeks to see if the steroid kicks in..... |
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I don't think that anything is going to help.... |
I went to a new neurologist who then sent me to a pain management specialist (been through this before) according to the MRI report there is nothing out of the ordinary.......
She did listen to me and came to the conclusion that it is the occipital nerve, between c3 and c5 She gave me a Cervical Medial Branch Block and an appointment to see her in 4 weeks.. Today, the day after, I have electric jolts of pain all over the top of my head, in the same pattern I have had since the bicycle accident in 2008. Does this mean that what is causing these jolts of pin point pain is not occipital neuralgia?? Honestly, I was so happy leaving her office yesterday after the procedure because i had no clue that she would really listen, and no idea that she would actually do something during my visit (this procedure) I felt nothing except the left side of my entire head being numb all last night. This morning however - back to the pain. I will call tomorrow and tell her that the medial branch block did absolutely nothing. At that point I will be considered to be a "problem patient" who wants immediate results I'm considering waiting fore a week to see how this pans out, then calling if i need to. I have to say that this doctor is the first one who actually listened, seemed to have a handle on a diagnosis, and did something. The next step if this doesn't work is to do a cervical radiofrequency ablation and then if all else fails, a surgically inserted occipital nerve stimulator. Any thoughts on any of this? I'm optimistic, yet afraid to get any hopes up at this point. I have no idea if this makes any sense at all, but the night of, and the day after this nerve block - the entire left side of my head was numb - and the pains were even more severe on the top of my head, as if this procedure riled the nerves on the top of my head up...... |
am I posting in the right place????
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am I posting in the right place????
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pain is intermittent and weak (had the block yesterday. Again, afraid to get my hiopes up but so far something has happened.. |
trigeminal/occipital - who knows at this point
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I haven't posted in awhile so I don't remember how this works, but I will give a try at an update..... I went to a pain management doctore in August who throughout October did a series of occipital nerve blocks to no avail.... then I went to a new Neurologist who actually listened and then told me that it wasn't occipital or trigeminal neuralgia, although it was a neuralgia. Now this surprised me - he didn't think that the shooting needle like pains shooting across my scalp were caused by my bicycle accident - he thinks this neuralgia was caused by a traumatic experience, but not necessarily the accident.... this was somehow reassuring, he wants me to get a tegretrol level test taken and to see him in January....... Who knows at this point...... |
Thanks for the update... I was hoping you were doing well.
But I do see you are still having difficulties. I am so sorry things are still not working well for you. Thank you for coming back though...every poster's experience adds to the learning potential we have here for others. Many just read and never register, you know. |
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one half of a pill threw me for a loop and gave me a headache through the front of my head, my sinuses, the back of my neck and shoulders. He also said that this is not a neuralgia but "Ice pick" headaches here we go again - I'd love to have a consistent diagnosis, maybe that's not even possible. I'm going back to sl0-mag and ncreasing the tegretol from 200mg 3x a day to 800 and possibly 900 mg a day. I don't know about the Integrative Therapeutics Petadolex (butterbur) that another neurologist prescribed (how many I don't know....I used to take one or two....) the pains have increased from electric like jolts to deeper and larger pains, although the constand jolts are still around... |
I wonder if a visit to a special chiropractor might help you?
There is a type of therapy called Atlas that some people get when their neck is out of alignment, and pinching nerves. Atlas Orthogonal technique. Some of our Concussion posters have had it, and I know some others who liked the results. It is a gentle (non-cracking) type treatment, and it might help you. http://www.atlasorthogonality.com/Pa...e/aboutAO.html Look on Google for a chiro who knows how to do this. It might be worth one visit to explore the potential for it. |
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I went to my old migrane doctor, the one who was convinced that these were ice-pick headaches, and almost demanded that i take nortryptalyn(?) she's not so sure these are ice pick headaces, or a neuralgia at this poing. she is sure that the pain is related to an overall "Migrane" profile. she gave me an rx for a "cefaly device" this was developed in Europe and recently accepted my the ama. You wear it for 20 mins every day..................I'm skeptical and it costs about 350.00. Does anyone have an y thoughts, infor about this? thank you - it seems that each doctor has a different take on what is wrong and it gets confusing and confusing after 8 years... |
There are a number of posts throughout the forums about the Cefaly device. Some in TBI/PCS forum and also in Headache. If you use the forum search feature you'll find posts from others discussing the device.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/search.php |
Just wondering if you got the Cefaly device and if it's helping?
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Cefaly device
Thanks for asking, I'd forgotten that I had mentioned it.
i sent an email to a doctor friend in England who thought the results were inconclusive - I trust him and his judgement so I didn't get it. I went to my "New" neurologist who dismissed it entirely. He aso seems t think that these are "ice pick" headaches and have nothing to do with the bicycle accident (even though they started in September of 2008, the bike accident was July of 2008) I've been to a lot of doctors with this and no one seems to be able to tell me exactly what is going on (the new doctor is a specialist in the area of trigeminal issues). He has left it with a topical medication containing Lidocaine and Prilocaine. So far (about s month) it does absolutely nothing. His attitude seems to be that this condition will not kill me, only cause discomfort. |
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I've had the shooting, stabbing scalp pains since 2008 and nothing so far has done anything |
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another night of clawing my scalp
I woke up clawing my scalp again last night - I wonder if this has anything to do with the airconditioner that I've been using for about the same number of days...
I often get jolts of pain from differences in temperature, and from wind ........ I wonder if it's time to go to a different neuroogist, this last one gave me Baclofen, then a lidocaine topical creme - and a appointment for September. I can't wait until September with this (It's been since 2008) the shooting, stabbing pains in my ears are starting up as well, which just leads to overall discomfort(?) His view on this is that I have ice pick headaches, although he has referred to this as a neuralgia as well. "It won't kill you, and will only be painful from time to time. then a story about how a patint of his in Poland was hit in the head during a mine accident and had major neurological problems as a result, while another man right next o him merely suffered a temporary headache. the point I think being - it's a mystery how these things happen and often times almost impossible to track down and treat..... I get it, but do not like the cavalier attitude..... |
I was given this by my most recent neurologist:
Lidocaine And Prilocaine topical cream. It didn't work and when I saw the doctor again he told he that essentially he thought this condition was stress related and sent me to a accupunture doctor. I've been going o one for years . I resented the attitude of this doctor which was this wasn't really something he should be concerned with. The sharp shoot pains have mov ed on to my ears and the pain at times is overwhelming. |
update
I was given a topical cream containing Lidocaine 2.5% and prilocaine 2.5%,
this worked for awhile then pretty much stopped. I have the intense shooting pains on my scalp now coupled with similar pains in my ears - shooting stabbing pains usually at night, and/or first thing in the morning. I'm hoping in some strange way that the pain in both ears is connected to the scalp pain and can help a doctor make a diagnosis. This has been 8 years now - although, I do recall having pains like this in my ears from time to time at least 20 years ago. They last a few years and then go. I've changed pillow cases, towels, everything that might cause an irritation of any sort. I did have a biopsy done recently of a bump on my scalp which indicated folliculitis. This has stopped over the past two months with the use of a topical antibiotic, Clindamycin. I still don't know for sure if this entire situation is or has been caused by a "neuralgia" the oft-cited but seemingly un-diagnosable condition. |
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But if you feel you could follow the warnings, and store them safely away from children and pets, they can be very helpful. I use my two pads, that I made myself every night. I find I only need them for 20minutes or so...because I used very high gauss neodymium types--one inch in diameter. This is my thread: http://www.neurotalk.org/peripheral-...hlight=magnets Amazon sells plastic coated ones now, and those are helpful for spot applications. They may be best for your purposes. Right now Amazon seems to not have the coated ones...but Ebay has these: 1 Pieces of 1x1 8 inch Grade N42 RARE Earth Neodymium Disc Magnet Epoxy Coated | eBay I also have these at home: 3 4"x 1 8" Disc Red Green Plastic Coated Neodymium RARE Earth | eBay What the magnets do is change the flux of ions across the nerve membranes that carry pain signals. Much the same way that lidocaine does. (without the numbing). You would use plastic medical tape (like NexCare) to apply the magnet to the skin. You don't have to wear it/them all day and night, as they are very strong and seem to block pain signals for a while when you take them off. You need to study an anatomical diagram of where the nerves are that go up the back of your scalp. Sometimes you have to move a magnet around to find the "sweet spot" where it works best for your specific need. They have 2 poles, S and N, and if one pole does not help or increases sensations, you just flip to the other for the calming of sensations. The red and green ones are handy for remembering the poles. I have some little ones with dots on them, which I use to mark new magnets when I get them. The dot is designed to go towards the skin. If you buy raw metal versions of the one inch neos, you have to cover the side the metal goes towards the skin, because you may get a "magnet burn" otherwise. I just put the tape on both sides. I made my pads from knitting needle covers, and sewed them in tightly because they are so strong they will not lie flat. (I put heavy nylon stays in with them so they are bendable but do not snick together by themselves. All this sounds like a lot of work, but once you get the hang of them, they can be truly very helpful. Another poster here, Brian uses them too. But he doesn't post here that much anymore. I am always here if you have further questions, etc. Be aware that some of the links on my old thread may be inactive. The two Ebay offers I have on this post are active today. |
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