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Old 02-21-2014, 11:05 AM #1
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Default Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Gabapentin question

I just read on another forum, while researching Baclofen, that Gabapentin depletes Carnitine. I am going to give Acetyl-L-Carnitine a trial and wondered if anyone has experience with this, positive or negative? I have also read that it can raise blood pressure and cause insomnia. My blood pressure is fine, so hopefully it won't be a problem.
I have read the stickies on it, just hoping for some current input. Also, the recent discussion about Gabapentin causing mental deterioration has me anxious to reduce my dosage. It does control the burning in my feet and I am afraid that if I reduce the dosage and it comes back I will end up at a higher dose to control it.
I would appreciate any ideas. I am having some physical therapy for my back and ankles right now and it seems to be stirring up a lot of unpleasant sensations.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:58 AM #2
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Lightbulb

I'll look this up for new info.

As far as I know today.... Depakote (another anti-seizure drug) has been shown to deplete carnitine in vivo.

Now, some actions of anti-seizure drugs, like Vit D and folate interference are all lumped up together for some reason. But not all of them equally affect those either. So is hair loss etc.

The Depakote/carnitine thing has been documented a long time ago, and even has caused deaths. But then that was BEFORE gabapentin and Topamax arrived to replace Depakote.

I'll look around today sometime, but this interaction is NOT in the reference I use. Gabapentin is listed but says: "no interactions" as of 2002 when it was printed. It takes time for the reports to make it medline and PubMed though. I don't expect that the information you found is accurate. If you can PM me the location of where you read it, that would help.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:05 PM #3
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So far I see nothing:
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-ch...professional=1

I did see a long post at a spinal board at another forum where a gal said a HEALTH FOOD STORE employee printed out a list of what gabapentin interacts with:
And that list is what sometimes comes up for antiseizure drugs in general...and is not accurate for all of them.

But I will keep looking.

edit: Now this is complex:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981167
Discusses the carnitine transporter. Gabapentin mentioned but seems to be minor and not significant.

This is a review article.... just a suggestion that some drugs MAY take up the transporter (which is newly defined) in some way and cause deficiency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22952014

edit--
This paper is about transport across the placenta to a fetus. Gabapentin is mentioned, but not a very potent drug in this specific instance compared to other drugs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15009220

edit--
This book entry of nutrient depletions as of 2008...discusses the Valproic acid (Depakote) in detail, and lumps all the anti-seizure drugs together:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15009220

Since CMT may be partly or all connected to mitochondrial functions, carnitine may be useful for you for this reason.
You'd have to research that potential separately from the gabapentin etc.
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Last edited by mrsD; 02-21-2014 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:52 PM #4
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Yes, that was the reference. It was very anecdotal and not authoritative in the least, but it did start me thinking about the Gabapentin again. So many things don't add up about that drug. Doctors hand it out like candy, it is considered very safe, then it shows up on an admittedly dubious list from AARP as causing cognitive losses. That it only helps about 30% of the time is usually left out of the information. I think it does help me, but it has been five years now and I am curious about tapering it.
I initially lost weight on it but have recently gained about 15 pounds and it is very stubborn. Can the Gabapentin be responsible for that after so long or is that wishful thinking?
I did not mean to put you through so much trouble! I was hoping for "off the top of the head" information and experience, I would not dream of asking you to research this. Thank you.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:23 PM #5
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Wink

It was no problem for me today. (some days I am a bit busier than others, but today is good for me.) Don't worry about asking.

I am doing my CE for license renewal and the texts in the online lessons are just awful... full of propaganda and marginal statements (to placate drug companies I imagine). It is crazy making for me, as I have to take TESTS and repeat the garbage, and pay $$ so I can renew! Seems this batch is worse than last period which ended in 2012. I have to do 2 live seminars so only some is online-- of the total 30 hrs. Now that stuff makes me cantankerous! LOL

I am seeing some posts on the CMT forums about carnitine use.
So you could think about that anyway for yourself.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:00 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanne C. View Post
So many things don't add up about [gabapentin]. Doctors hand it out like candy, it is considered very safe, then it shows up on an admittedly dubious list from AARP as causing cognitive losses. That it only helps about 30% of the time is usually left out of the information. I think it does help me, but it has been five years now and I am curious about tapering it.
I see that Wiki has picked up on this.
Quote:
Pain

Gabapentin provides significant pain relief in about a third of people who take it for fibromyalgia or chronic neuropathic pain; however, there are side effects in two thirds of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabapentin#Pain
Do you know if you actually needed the higher dose in order to be effective? I balked at the dosage, and argued (successfully) for starting at a lower dose (100 mg.—the smallest dose made) and that was very effective for me (for the short time I was on it). Given its propensity for tolerance, this may have been a good thing indeed. I often think the higher dosage has been another of Big Pharma's ploys to wring extra profits out of an out-of-patent med.

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Old 02-21-2014, 02:12 PM #7
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Lightbulb

I do not think gabapentin is "very"safe. It is safer than than the other antiseizure drugs out there, which have some serious long term toxicities. Gabapentin is not metabolized so it is not going to affect other treatments liver-wise also.

But it is a DRUG and carries significant side effects of its own. Mostly weight gain, mental confusion and other lifestyle losses.
Quality of life on it is not great considering is low effectiveness potential.

The same comments are given by doctors and the propaganda net about SSRI drugs being SAFER than TCAs . I got that in all my CEs and seminars for many years. The only "safer" aspect is that SSRIs have a lower death rate for overdoses or suicide attempts (from depressive patients). The TCAs had significant long QT effects and affected the heart in high doses or mixed with other drugs.

So the term "safer" is very relative IMO.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:42 PM #8
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Originally Posted by mrsD View Post

Since CMT may be partly or all connected to mitochondrial functions, carnitine may be useful for you for this reason.
You'd have to research that potential separately from the gabapentin etc.
It appears that CMT2A is caused by a defect. Not fixable as yet. No type of CMT has a cure/treatment yet and there are more than 70 kinds identified so far. Interesting site:

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MFN2
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:16 PM #9
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Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
It appears that CMT2A is caused by a defect. Not fixable as yet. No type of CMT has a cure/treatment yet and there are more than 70 kinds identified so far. Interesting site:

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MFN2
I know Kitt, but I feel like trying something just to slow this down. It has not been a good year. I am also a little worried about the cognitive effects of my medications and want to see if I can get by with less. The sharp pains in my legs are the worst of it and I think I will need medication for that, but I am curious if the burning has lessened in the years I have been on Gabapentin. Maybe it isn't necessary.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:46 PM #10
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I know Kitt, but I feel like trying something just to slow this down. It has not been a good year. I am also a little worried about the cognitive effects of my medications and want to see if I can get by with less. The sharp pains in my legs are the worst of it and I think I will need medication for that, but I am curious if the burning has lessened in the years I have been on Gabapentin. Maybe it isn't necessary.
I can't blame you. It hasn't been such a wonderful year for me either. Hope you find the answer.
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