advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2014, 09:06 PM #1
Synnove Synnove is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 314
10 yr Member
Synnove Synnove is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 314
10 yr Member
Default Accuracy of punch skin biopsy for nervedensity

Hi. I hope someone can comment/inform regarding this topic.
Here is my situation: Over 1 year ago my local neurologist referred me to a large University center to se a professor specialicing in neuropathy.
( my local neuro is actualy my neurovascular neuro)

This specialist saw me, did thorough physical neurological exam, and did EMG and NCS which he all performed himself.
Result Peripheral sensorymotor axonal polyneuropathy. Also evidence of small sensory nerve fiber dysfunction predominently affecting sympathetic components.
"To evaluate the small the small sensory fibers (autonomic nerves) sympathetic skin responses were obtained from feet."

I have asked this doctor to do a skin biopsy, but he has declined, saying," I do not need to do that, I have tested, I know you have small fiber neuropathy But if the local doctor will, they can easily do it there.

So, my local neuro, who referred me to the specialist, has been saying," If you have neuropathy, you should not have this brisk reflexes"
( I will need to bring in some information to the doctor. He obviously does not know that with SFN, one can have much of negative, normal assessment., EMG NCS included)

So the story goes, that recently our local neuro group has hired a new neuromuscular doctor that has done this skin test in the past, even though the office has never.
Well, he ordered the test, and I had it. Carefully documented and sent to Neuropath lab.

Result negative for SFN.

I have had such terrible painful symptoms with burning and all sorts of perasthesia.actually so bad that I almost mistook the symptoms for TIA a couple of times with really numbness in arm

Question:
How often are theese tests wrong?

Can they be repeated? ( Insurance company willing)

I have been so sick with this neuropathy in addition to newly diagnosed Rheumatoid Arthritis, that my rheumatologist has recomended to treat me with Rituxan.

No, We will have to make sure we get some objective documentation regarding the SFN.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by Synnove; 04-23-2014 at 09:10 PM. Reason: more info
Synnove is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote

advertisement
Old 04-23-2014, 09:25 PM #2
Jon_sparky Jon_sparky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 145
10 yr Member
Jon_sparky Jon_sparky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 145
10 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnove View Post
Hi. I hope someone can comment/inform regarding this topic.
Here is my situation: Over 1 year ago my local neurologist referred me to a large University center to se a professor specialicing in neuropathy.
( my local neuro is actualy my neurovascular neuro)

This specialist saw me, did thorough physical neurological exam, and did EMG and NCS which he all performed himself.
Result Peripheral sensorymotor axonal polyneuropathy. Also evidence of small sensory nerve fiber dysfunction predominently affecting sympathetic components.
"To evaluate the small the small sensory fibers (autonomic nerves) sympathetic skin responses were obtained from feet."

I have asked this doctor to do a skin biopsy, but he has declined, saying," I do not need to do that, I have tested, I know you have small fiber neuropathy But if the local doctor will, they can easily do it there.

So, my local neuro, who referred me to the specialist, has been saying," If you have neuropathy, you should not have this brisk reflexes"
( I will need to bring in some information to the doctor. He obviously does not know that with SFN, one can have much of negative, normal assessment., EMG NCS included)

So the story goes, that recently our local neuro group has hired a new neuromuscular doctor that has done this skin test in the past, even though the office has never.
Well, he ordered the test, and I had it. Carefully documented and sent to Neuropath lab.

Result negative for SFN.

I have had such terrible painful symptoms with burning and all sorts of perasthesia.actually so bad that I almost mistook the symptoms for TIA a couple of times with really numbness in arm

Question:
How often are theese tests wrong?

Can they be repeated? ( Insurance company willing)

I have been so sick with this neuropathy in addition to newly diagnosed Rheumatoid Arthritis, that my rheumatologist has recomended to treat me with Rituxan.

No, We will have to make sure we get some objective documentation regarding the SFN.

Any suggestions?
This paper says a accuracy of 88.4 % http://www.therapath.com/ENFD.php
The other option the Doctor can opt for, is getting a sweat gland test.
http://www.therapath.com/Sweat_Gland...er_Density.php
Hope this helps.
Jon
Jon_sparky is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Synnove (04-25-2014)
Old 04-23-2014, 11:13 PM #3
jenng jenng is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 135
10 yr Member
jenng jenng is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 135
10 yr Member
Default

So did your EMG/NCS show long fiber damage to reach that diagnosis? My neuro told me that if someone has long fiber damage the likelihood is they have some small fiber involvement as well. Will a second biopsy change your course of treatment?

As far as reflexes go, brisk reflexes are common at first with neuropathy in the lower extremities. As the condition progresses they usually diminish.
__________________
Idiopathic Sensorimotor Polyneuropathy
Atypical Migraine
Chiari 1 malformation 7 mm
PLIF L5-S1 Sept. 2013

Lumbar MRI March 2013: degenerative changes from L3 to S1. L3 and L4 have tiny annular tears with disc bulge. L5-S1 bilateral pars defects anterolisthesis (spondylosis/spondylithesis?) I have an annular tear here too, along with a conjoined left L5-S1 nerve root. Mild effacement of the thecal sac at the origins of the bilateral S1 nerve roots, left greater than right. Mild bilateral Neural foraminal stenosis.

Last edited by jenng; 04-23-2014 at 11:19 PM. Reason: spelling
jenng is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
hopeful (04-24-2014), Synnove (04-25-2014)
Old 04-24-2014, 06:12 AM #4
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
Default I've written about this a lot in the past.

Very busy right now (it's heavy test prep season), but take a look at:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...61#post1052061

There are other threads in which I have addressed how "normal" values are determined in skin biopsy and how they can be misleading, but this is the most recent.
glenntaj is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
hopeful (04-24-2014), Synnove (04-25-2014)
Old 04-24-2014, 09:38 AM #5
IllPn IllPn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 144
10 yr Member
IllPn IllPn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 144
10 yr Member
Default reply

did you see your report ? my punch test was so vague said not present but... there was a comment on the nerve fibers it did not really make a lot of sense so if you did not see and read the report I would get a hold of it
IllPn is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
hopeful (04-24-2014), Synnove (04-25-2014)
Old 04-24-2014, 10:29 AM #6
Nervous1's Avatar
Nervous1 Nervous1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 117
10 yr Member
Nervous1 Nervous1 is offline
Member
Nervous1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 117
10 yr Member
Default

Hey Synnove,

I had the same issue a couple of years ago where the biopsy came back negative from Therapath. A year later they compared a new punch biopsy with the previous year and determined that I had diminished sweat glands and said the I have autoimmune SFPN.
What scares me the most is that the neuropathy may be progressing quickly if the test two years ago did not show anything and now the new test shows diminished sweat glands.

N1




Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnove View Post
Hi. I hope someone can comment/inform regarding this topic.
Here is my situation: Over 1 year ago my local neurologist referred me to a large University center to se a professor specialicing in neuropathy.
( my local neuro is actualy my neurovascular neuro)

This specialist saw me, did thorough physical neurological exam, and did EMG and NCS which he all performed himself.
Result Peripheral sensorymotor axonal polyneuropathy. Also evidence of small sensory nerve fiber dysfunction predominently affecting sympathetic components.
"To evaluate the small the small sensory fibers (autonomic nerves) sympathetic skin responses were obtained from feet."

I have asked this doctor to do a skin biopsy, but he has declined, saying," I do not need to do that, I have tested, I know you have small fiber neuropathy But if the local doctor will, they can easily do it there.

So, my local neuro, who referred me to the specialist, has been saying," If you have neuropathy, you should not have this brisk reflexes"
( I will need to bring in some information to the doctor. He obviously does not know that with SFN, one can have much of negative, normal assessment., EMG NCS included)

So the story goes, that recently our local neuro group has hired a new neuromuscular doctor that has done this skin test in the past, even though the office has never.
Well, he ordered the test, and I had it. Carefully documented and sent to Neuropath lab.

Result negative for SFN.

I have had such terrible painful symptoms with burning and all sorts of perasthesia.actually so bad that I almost mistook the symptoms for TIA a couple of times with really numbness in arm

Question:
How often are theese tests wrong?

Can they be repeated? ( Insurance company willing)

I have been so sick with this neuropathy in addition to newly diagnosed Rheumatoid Arthritis, that my rheumatologist has recomended to treat me with Rituxan.

No, We will have to make sure we get some objective documentation regarding the SFN.

Any suggestions?
Nervous1 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Synnove (04-25-2014)
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone had a skin punch biopsy for SFN? SuzieCue Peripheral Neuropathy 12 09-08-2013 01:22 PM
Skin punch Geordie Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD and CRPS) 0 06-04-2013 02:36 PM
SFN Skin Punch - Who's had it done? better12 Peripheral Neuropathy 14 01-02-2012 07:31 PM
Doctors in Ontario that do QSART and skin punch biopsies titanrules Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD and CRPS) 0 09-15-2011 11:52 AM
skin punch stan t Peripheral Neuropathy 10 07-28-2011 11:34 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.