[KnowNothingJon]

Hello all,

My name is Jon and just over two years ago I started experiencing severe buzzing, numbness and tingling in my feet and ankles. In 2008 I was diagnosed diabetic. This coupled with an EMG lead to a diabetic neuropathy diagnosis.

I tried gabapentin, though the side effects were too much to handle. Upon telling my primary about that his solution was more gabapentin. So I was searching for answers and a new primary.

The discomfort and pain continued to grow, flaring up occassionally. The symptoms were sporadically in my forearms during these flares. I lost feeling in my left pinkie and ring finger. I finally relented and tried Lyrica. It seemed we worked up to a useful/bearable level, 2x a day 150 mg.

In October of 2013 everything seemed to go Emeril on me, kicked up a few notches. I think Guy Fieri stepped into the scene and declared it redonkulous. Muscle spasming joined the party. I was given tramadol to take as needed.

In November my Aunt suggested a vegan diet. It had helped her issues. I was willing to try anything that didn't seem dangerous. What was there to lose, besides animal products? So I did. I am still sticking with it, 50 pounds lighter and considering a flex to a Mediterranean diet sometine this summer. My favorite dish is lentils and carrots.

So despite sub diabetic A1C numbers, improved general health I am experiencing increased fatigue, discomfort, pain and muscle spasming.

I was taken out by a baby gate last Sunday. I swear it ran the red light. I didn't think much of it. Tuesday just before leaving work my left calf spasmed like I was flexing. I hobbled to the car, the calf wasn't warm, so I went home and used my friend the ottoman like a life preserver.

Thursday morning, still inflamed and warm. After a trip to the urgent care a diagnosis of a hematoma 18 mm long close to the bone. I've been babying myself since, but plan on asking for further testing on that area. The ultrasound tech had a differing opinion on the anomoly and I want it followed up on.

On mornings where the pain is not on right off, soon enough it comes on, like a old style gynasium slowly pops the lights on. I see the look of concern on my wife's face when I struggle at basic tasks.

Long preamble, short question- is it possible for my diabetic neuropathy to get worse despite decent blood glucose control? I've read plenty here on testing and have adjusted to an hour after meals. My reading has been high this week, though I can't pinpoint why.

I also wanted to know if anyone had numbness in their lower leg to the point a deep bruise takes two days to manifest pain symptoms.

I started the B vitamin method laid out in the thread.

It is a night of discomfort. I can't find a way to get relaxed. I get about a weeks worth of this a month. Oddly grateful it isn't a work night.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.

KN Jon

[glenntaj]

--but since I'm up early this morning, I would suggest you look into possibly supplementing with both magnesium (not an oxide form--that tends not to be absorbed well, but DOES tend to give one the runs, as it is rather laxative--but a chelated or citrate/malate type), and possibly lipoic acid, which is a potent antioxidant and has been used for many years in Europe as both a blood sugar regulator and neuropathy symptom lessener. One can try either the original alpha lipoic acid form or the more recent R-lipoic acid (which is composed of only the biologically active right-handed molecular isomers of lipoic acid, so one can normally take less R-lipoic to get a similar effect to larger doses of alpha lipoic).

Both of these are quite inexpensive and are available as supplements through both regular nutrition or drug stores stores (and even at Wal-Mart and Target for the most part) and on-line (many of us use iherb.com or swansonvitamins.com). I don't recommend any particular brands of these, though I am partial to those manufactured in Canada, as I think there is more regulation and quality control there.

Do not expect the effects to happen overnight; they are gradual. But it is known that diabetics tend to excrete magnesium, which is vital for proper muscle contraction functioning, more than non-diabetics, and that many people on the standard Western diet tend to have less than optimal levels of magnesium (magnesium deficiency is likely more common than either calcium or potassium deficiency, though the latter two receive more publicity).

The course of diabetic neuropathy, unfortunately, is highly variable. Having one's blood sugar under tight control is a prerequisite for stemming the progression, but it doesn't always help everyone equally. Making sure circulatory issues are addressed is also necessary, and one should still be checked for other conditions which might be contributing. In particular, diabetics are very prone to "double-crush" syndromes, in which diabetes makes a compressive dysfunction of nerve tracts worse, and produces symptoms out of proportion to the sum of the parts.

See:

http://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/diabetes.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10531704

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/7/1783.full

[KnowNothingJon]

Thanks, glenn.

I've been supplementing magnesium for months, though I will look into whether it is the proper formulation. The B-12 I was previously taking was not up to snuff. I'm also going to look into the r-lipoic, though I was hoping to slowly integrate one thing at a time to judge its effectiveness, if possible.

I'd love overnight changes, but I don't expect any. I just also don't expect such a dove tail. I'm feeling weak enough that I beg off most rough housing with my 8 year old and 2 year old. My daughter, who is older, understands, but doesn't. The boy? Potential tandem trips to the Urgent care.

Thanks again for the response. I've found information, comfort and strength by reading threads here.

KN Jon

[KnowNothingJon]

I ran into the cumulative effects of the insomnia which ends in a crash day, which usually consists of a 12 hour slumber. I wish it were as restful as it sounds. When it occurs during the week it leaves me with what feels like a 16 hour work day.

Does anyone have successful methods for combating fatigue? I'm working on pacing myself more, though it is quite the adjustment.

Thanks,

Jon

[Jon_sparky]

Originally Posted by KnowNothingJon

I ran into the cumulative effects of the insomnia which ends in a crash day, which usually consists of a 12 hour slumber. I wish it were as restful as it sounds. When it occurs during the week it leaves me with what feels like a 16 hour work day.

Does anyone have successful methods for combating fatigue? I'm working on pacing myself more, though it is quite the adjustment.

Thanks,

Jon

I can relate to what you wrote, Jon. I have all of the above, numbness, calf muscles that feel like I tore a tendon, and I just had a crash day, Sunday, I is no fun, and you feel more fatigued afterwards! I am also Pre-diabetic, and was diagnosed as diabetic... I am on a lacto vegitarian diet, more of a Meditranian diet, without the fish. (except fish oil)
I am going to a Neurologist next month, to be tested for PN, I haven't been to see one since 2003.
Haven't tried Lyrica, but Gabapentin didn't work out very well, bad brain fog.

To top it all off my name is also Jon!
Jon

[KnowNothingJon]

I had a follow up with my primary related to my lower left leg injury. I am taking 75mg of Lyrica now. I've had some increased discomfort, though limited burning that is the same as when I was taking 150mg 2x day.

I see my neurologist this Wednesday. I'd like an EMG to compare to the one from summer 2012 or some other test to check progression.

[uglogirl]

Originally Posted by KnowNothingJon

Hello all,

My name is Jon and just over two years ago I started experiencing severe buzzing, numbness and tingling in my feet and ankles. In 2008 I was diagnosed diabetic. This coupled with an EMG lead to a diabetic neuropathy diagnosis.

I tried gabapentin, though the side effects were too much to handle. Upon telling my primary about that his solution was more gabapentin. So I was searching for answers and a new primary.

The discomfort and pain continued to grow, flaring up occassionally. The symptoms were sporadically in my forearms during these flares. I lost feeling in my left pinkie and ring finger. I finally relented and tried Lyrica. It seemed we worked up to a useful/bearable level, 2x a day 150 mg.

In October of 2013 everything seemed to go Emeril on me, kicked up a few notches. I think Guy Fieri stepped into the scene and declared it redonkulous. Muscle spasming joined the party. I was given tramadol to take as needed.

In November my Aunt suggested a vegan diet. It had helped her issues. I was willing to try anything that didn't seem dangerous. What was there to lose, besides animal products? So I did. I am still sticking with it, 50 pounds lighter and considering a flex to a Mediterranean diet sometine this summer. My favorite dish is lentils and carrots.

So despite sub diabetic A1C numbers, improved general health I am experiencing increased fatigue, discomfort, pain and muscle spasming.

I was taken out by a baby gate last Sunday. I swear it ran the red light. I didn't think much of it. Tuesday just before leaving work my left calf spasmed like I was flexing. I hobbled to the car, the calf wasn't warm, so I went home and used my friend the ottoman like a life preserver.

Thursday morning, still inflamed and warm. After a trip to the urgent care a diagnosis of a hematoma 18 mm long close to the bone. I've been babying myself since, but plan on asking for further testing on that area. The ultrasound tech had a differing opinion on the anomoly and I want it followed up on.

On mornings where the pain is not on right off, soon enough it comes on, like a old style gynasium slowly pops the lights on. I see the look of concern on my wife's face when I struggle at basic tasks.

Long preamble, short question- is it possible for my diabetic neuropathy to get worse despite decent blood glucose control? I've read plenty here on testing and have adjusted to an hour after meals. My reading has been high this week, though I can't pinpoint why.

I also wanted to know if anyone had numbness in their lower leg to the point a deep bruise takes two days to manifest pain symptoms.

I started the B vitamin method laid out in the thread.

It is a night of discomfort. I can't find a way to get relaxed. I get about a weeks worth of this a month. Oddly grateful it isn't a work night.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.

KN Jon

What were the results of your EMG Test was the Neuropathy limited to your feet and ankles. I have diabetic Neuropathy also told it is Sensori-Poly Neuropathy starts in my feet and goes up to my knee in legs.

My numbness and pain is mostly limited to my feet and ankles and I can also feel some numbness on my legs below my knee.

I get flare ups for many reasons don't know all of them was just getting off of one of them and after dinner felt burning on the top of my foot . I probably had to many carbs and am now going through a back to back flare up.

It sounds like this a new symptom your leg. When did you have your EMG maybe you should have another one and compare the results.

I know what you mean about not being able to get relaxed when you're so uncomfortable. I myself take a hydro-codone that I had left over from some dental work. Ran out and don't know what I will take for the pain going forward

Did you go to a Endo Specialist and Neurologist.

I was sent to a Diabetic Educator and was given a personal plan of 165 carbs spread over 3 meals and 2 snack per day.

I think keeping the sugar steady at 100 and 160-180 after meals and testing 2 hrs later and being back at the 100 range is good for me.

You don't mention your glucose reading numbers.

From what I have read nothing says the Neuropathy won't progress but hopefully doing everything right will slow the progression or may even halt it is a goal to work toward.

[KnowNothingJon]

Hi uglogirl,

I do not recall the particulars of the EMG, though they called immediately upon getting the results. At the time it was mostly limited to my feet and ankles, though my knees are often involved when I get shooting pain. I now have symptoms in my arms, mostly the forearm and hands, though muscles in my upper arm often are taut and sore.

I was bouncing around neurologists until I found my current one. I have only had one appointment to date, but it was productive.

My morning reading is usually 90-110, though a few mornings of late it was 140. It isn't often enough to correlate with how I feel (I don't believe) but I do check before, an hour after and two hours after on days that start high.

I can understand continued progression, even with decent control, though I'm puzzled by the rate of progression.

Thank you for the input!

Jon

[KnowNothingJon]

I have had continued, though slowed, weight loss with the diet. Blood testing shows continued improvement in A1C, cholesterol and all the usuals.

I was passed from the Neurologist to his Nurse, which was fine. The battery of tests cam back with B12 ~800, my Magnesium numbers were high and thankfully none of the advanced testing came back showing "worse" problems.
She convinced me to try Valium for the muscle spasms, which I did for a month.

Mom's little helper did work on the spasms, but daily usage plus an unwelcome side effect of dulling my thinking further cut the experiment at one month. If they would prescribe it as needed I'd add it to the "dire need" portion of my tool box, alas the claim is for my issue it is a daily med. So it goes.

I had an EMG done earlier this month. It confirmed mild neuropathy. I think it should be referred to as neuropathy. It has taken over my life. There is nothing mild, in my mind, about it. I had pain from the test this time, which was unexpected and quite frankly, awful.

I struggle, but my support system is amazing. I've come to refer to my occassional Lyrica brain fog as "cognitive belches".

I crashed last night right after work so today is a quasi 16 hour marathon.

ALA has not shown to do much and once it runs out on to RLA I go.

My best to everyone,

Jon

[zkrp01]

Originally Posted by KnowNothingJon

I have had continued, though slowed, weight loss with the diet. Blood testing shows continued improvement in A1C, cholesterol and all the usuals.

I was passed from the Neurologist to his Nurse, which was fine. The battery of tests cam back with B12 ~800, my Magnesium numbers were high and thankfully none of the advanced testing came back showing "worse" problems.
She convinced me to try Valium for the muscle spasms, which I did for a month.

Mom's little helper did work on the spasms, but daily usage plus an unwelcome side effect of dulling my thinking further cut the experiment at one month. If they would prescribe it as needed I'd add it to the "dire need" portion of my tool box, alas the claim is for my issue it is a daily med. So it goes.

I had an EMG done earlier this month. It confirmed mild neuropathy. I think it should be referred to as neuropathy. It has taken over my life. There is nothing mild, in my mind, about it. I had pain from the test this time, which was unexpected and quite frankly, awful.

I struggle, but my support system is amazing. I've come to refer to my occassional Lyrica brain fog as "cognitive belches".

I crashed last night right after work so today is a quasi 16 hour marathon.

ALA has not shown to do much and once it runs out on to RLA I go.

My best to everyone,

Jon

Hi Jon, If you are not resting, Zolpidem will get you some sleep but must be prescribed and may be habit-forming, but you have to get rest. Also drink water like it's your job. dehydration will magnify muscle spasms. Good luck, Ken in Texas