First fish oil was recommeded in the late 60's early 70's it what very in,
as we said in those days. Then same thing happened like the b12 deal.
Drs. oh you don't need that,but they sure had you taking B12 for years .
Fish oil didn't go over and last like B12. Why because of overpriced
Miracle Drugs. You now can get a script for Fish oil,over a hundred dollars
and honest the young Drs. will say what do you mean they recommeded
fish oil in the 60's and 70's like it never happened. My Pharmacist when
your insurance turns it down will hand you a bottle of inexpensive,but
same thing boy Cyclclops is so right you see it all.

My cousin was one of those attractive girls Billlye was talking about. She
told me all about the PN,and horribal muscular side effects of Stanints.
She married a Dr. and on the wedding invitations they requested no presents
I just had to call her mom,huh i said did i read that right NO PRESENTS.
She just said he has 2 homes and she has a Condo the Pharmacutical
companies,well let's say have perks. Just how many appliances does one
need.

Just one more thing,if you are in a nursing home and are told these meds
are good for you,unless you have a caring family watching over you,you
just might take them. Not asking Why? This is a bummer post for me to
to be posting. My son's best friend stoppped being a nurse a month ago.
He just got tired of reporting these things and the world lost anonther
good nurse,he was taking the frustation home to his family. As for the
the answer no Cathie i couldn't take them or those TV commercials. Sue

I started to get peripheral neuropathy prior to my chemotherapy. After chemo it was so bad we kind of forgot that I had it a little bit (big toe only) BEFORE the chemo. When I questioned whether the high dose of statins I was on could have played a role in the pre-chemo PN, my doctor told me that all the studies showing a link between statins and PN were highly questionable and did not have much credibility
My question to the group is..what do you think about that statement and can anyone point me to credible studies showing this link?
Thanks for your help
John

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0514075710.htm

Remember that the spin meisters the drug companies use, are very good
at defusing doctors' questions. This was illustrated well during the Vioxx
incident.

My own doctor was led to believe that Liptor could REVERSE plaque. Which is totally untrue.

More scary data:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi...full/28/8/2082 from 2005

http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/58/12/1047

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/.../full/97/4/229 personality changes

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/139/9/792

http://www.tga.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0504.htm

I personally agree with the one paper, that neuropathy presenting in diabetic patients may be misdiagnosed if a statin is being used as well. This would definitely increase the # of reports. After the patents are expired on Lipitor, I think we will see more data on the pitfalls of statins. Liability suits go the the patent holder (Pfizer) and typically in postmarketing situations, where danger exists, the original patent holder then releases negative data that they have been holding all along.

I was having s/e from Lipitor and Mrs D steered me to Zetia, way before the TV comm'ls started. I had to bend my doc's arm to make her take me off statins. She was thinking that Lipitor was the new miracle drug. (Big Pharm propaganda and low cholest results rom some of her other patients) She was dubious that Zetia would be successful in my case. I proved her wrong, and have been taking it for over 3 yrs now.

Well, my dad sure is in a mess, apparently from taking statins and he will NOT listen to anything I say about this. Meanwhile, I think he is getting worse. When I called him the other morning, he was unable to even get out of the bed due to severe weakness...

I sent a copy of the above to his wife to take to their hard-headed doctor this week. Guess we will see what happens... I can pretty well guess. He will get mad, and my dad will continue taking them...

My own Internist takes statins and believes they should be put into the drinking water...

Cathie

"European studies are usually the first to come up with truthful data."

Why is this?

Cathie

You should see at my psych doc office the waiting room is filled with reps and they get free lunches and goodies every time I'm there. I think bribery should not be. You would be amazed when I have been inpatient how I go in on nothing and come out on like 10 different pills which my insurance does not cover. I think meds can help and did for me in the past with ocd/anxiety and trying now for this issue but I do feel many docs look for the easy or quick try rather then looking at other possibles. I also wonder if docs really keep up with what they prescribe. I don't know about statins but I hope your dad feels better and sees things from different sides.

Thanks for that Daniella. I guess I will find out what happens on Wednesday.

About the drug company reps... You should see the medical buildings next to the hospital where I see a lot of my docs... Around the lunch hour, they are run over with these drug reps, who are pushing in carts of food, setting up lunch in the various doctors' offices and CAUSING YOU TO HAVE TO WAIT SOMETIMES ON AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOUR DOC... It is really outrageous. Sometimes there are so many, you cannot even get on the elevator.

I think the next time I go over there, if I see any, I will tell them my daughter wants to rep for a drug company, and ask them what kind of education she would have to have. I doubt that most of these people are educated in a manner in which they really know how drugs work and who they are best suited for...

There should be federal legislation introduced to prohibit the kind of behavior that drug companies use which makes it appear they are influencing physicians to prescribe their products...

Just my opinion,
Cathie

to be independent of drug company control. For example, much of the negative data on hormone replacement therapy was done in Europe all the while those drugs were #1 in USA. Same with cell phone data/and brain tumors.

Most drug reps do have a college education, but it tends to be business types.
I have met two physical therapists along the way. But pharmacists and doctors are now discouraged. (they tend to balk at lying).

If you want to read about how "sterling" the drug rep business is....go to
www.cafepharma.com and click on "boards" and pick the Darkened Sample Closet (under General discussion) and/or the company boards. It is not for the faint of heart! You may be even shocked. Pfizer for Lipitor.
Lilly is interesting, they call Lilly WeLie Lilly. (Lilly has a long track record of lying during studies...goes back to Oraflex which killed people, includes Prozac lies, Cymbalta lies, and BIG Zyprexa lies).

This one is interesting:
http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/sho...d.php?t=208331
"what skills have you learned to transfer to another job if you left Pharma?"

Eli Lilly board:
http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/sho...d.php?t=207917
Cymbalta + Liptor warning discussion

Here is a doosey on "fake calls"
http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=89452

Since some here use Cymbalta, here is another doosey:
http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/sho...d.php?t=207484

(and no, I don't post there, none of it is ME! LOL). But I do read it occasionally. These are the tamer examples I could put up here, others would not be appropriate, and you'll have to discover them yourselves!

What drug companies do is an intense educational overview for reps with selected drugs. This may take a month for them, and is very narrow in scope. The companies have access to data about their competitors, and specific things they will divulge. During the Vioxx revelation, memos were published showing reps how to deflect and not answer questions about cardiac involvement. None of the negatives about SSRIs were divulged until the Attorney General of NY sued Glaxo for example, about Paxil. As the SSRIs went off patent more and more was revealed. For example there are studies showing Paxil does not work in children! (kept secret), and some studies showed Prozac less effective than placebo!
Most drug reps are chosen for personality style, (good verbal command) and appearance. You never see an average person selling drugs. They all dress to the hilt and have some sex appeal, now. Many have simple B.As. or business degrees. When I started in my profession there was a requirement that drug reps be pharmacists or doctors. That flew out the window sometime in the 80's. (perhaps earlier for some companies). And I have heard some stories about sexcapades with doctors. Best trait to have above all is to be a good convincing LIAR.

Whether you approve of Mike Moore or disapprove of him be sure to see his latest flick "SICKO"