Adding a bit to what mrsD wrote:

The MV transporter can only transport one of its substrates (iodide, biotin, lipoate and pantothenate) at a time. It can not transport any two of them (eg, biotin and lipoate) at the same time.

What this means is that all of its substrates are what are called competitive inhibitors of each other. This means that relatively high concentrations of any of its other substrates will inhibit transport of biotin.

So, as mrsD suggested, discontinuing lipoate for a while is worth a try to see if you notice any improvements. That way lipoate is less likely to act as a competitive inhibitor of biotin transport.

Thank you both! Got it now.

The reason I started taking R-Lipoic Acid back in 2014 was that a nutritional test done by an int. medicine doctor showed I was borderline low on it. The doc suggested supplementing. Regardless, I'll give it a shot.

I'm also digging into the genetics of the involved SCL5A6 gene. I'm having a tough time finding information, but it looks like I do have a couple of homozygous variants.

I read an article recently that discussed lipoic acid/lipoate.

Let me see if I can find it again.....

nope, but I did find this:

Top 1 List of Foods High In Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA)

So this link illustrates how tiny the amounts of ALA are in most foods. This is why lipoic acid needs that transporter. Even when using small supplement amounts of milligrams it becomes a rather change to "drug" status of lipoic acid. The article I read a while back called the use of lipoic acid a therapeutic drug use and not a vitamin supplement use. So evolution did not occur with high lipoic acid consumption as we see today, with its use for diabetic neuropathy. Lipoic acid is made by our own body's metabolism.

Also the addition of iodide to the task of the MVtransporter explains the hypothyroid risk of using high dose lipoic acid since the transporter carries iodides (also in microgram quantities);
Iodides were not on the list in the past. And I expect other microgram quantities of nutrients to perhaps be found to need a transporter in the future.

When searching this topic try these 3 keywords...
1) lipoic acid
2) thiotic acid (often found in research articles)
3) lipoate

All are found in many papers.

Thanks very much for all this, MrsD. I plan on doing a lot of reading this weekend.

Spinach is a staple for me, BTW. Rarely a day goes by. :D

A person on my other health group says biotin taken with fats can reduce nerve pain.

Vitamin H (Biotin) | University of Maryland Medical Center

Just found this
 

Hello,
I just found this website by searching for c.1330G>C. This is my first comment, please forgive me if I am not doing it right. I too have that gene found through a genetic screen. I have numerous health nuiances, one of which is difficulty metabolising alcohol. Interestingly three other women in my family have the same thing. I'm very interested to know what other similarities I have with someone with the same gene. I understand the thread is old, I hope this is received. Also did you find a balance in managing symptoms?? If so how?

Hello Alexia,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. Despite the thread being old, I received notification of your response thanks to having email notifications being enabled on the thread.

I'm happy you posted. I feel rather alone with this gene mutation. I assume you have only one copy and not two? Having two copies is much more problematic.

Since making sure I supplement with biotin everyday, I have not been hypoglycemic once. It was definitely causing me metabolism problems. Unfortunately, I've seen no improvement with my ability to metabolize alcohol, nor has it improved my neuropathy problems.

The latter, however, I've just recently discovered are associated with histamine overload, which is a whole nightmare in itself.

Have you had your biotinidase enzyme levels tested?

Jane

Hi OP, at first glance all I can say is in my long life, I see no saving graces to consuming and putting alcohol in our bodies....... I can't speak about the gene issue but lived with too much alcohol in my family. Thank goodness both parents didn't imbibe.... Good luck.

Thank you for replying, this is great. Yes, I just have the one copy.

Histamine is something for me to look into, thank you. It may even be causing some of my other problems.

No enzyme levels yet, my next appointment is in a few weeks. There's only one metabolic clinic here and I think that test might also be harder to find where I am.

My symptoms being investigated are: neuropathy, alcohol sensitivity (seems to run in family), cognition, fatigue, ADD, anovulation, itchy skin bumps, dry skin, mouth bumps, twitching, general gut, headaches, sore throat, alopecia, weight/hunger, cholesterol, zinc, mood... not sure what else. Most of my symptoms come and go which makes it difficult to be assessed.

I've been taking biotin for 8 months and take between 300mcg and 10000mcg, I personally think the upper limit is too much for me. Some of my symptoms (especially waking in the morning) are better but not perfect. Are you at liberty to say what amount works for you personally?

Currently trying to start a family so the unpredictable ovulation is my main sore point if it's related.

Fun, fun, fun. Haha.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I didn't receive notifications of the new posts for some reason.

I'm taking 5 mg of Meribin biotin/day. It's a highly bioavailable form of biotin, and the brand recommended for profoundly deficient biotinidase people. It's very expensive, though, and probably overkill. I'm at the end of my last bottle now, and am going to switch to a less expensive form. I'll know pretty quickly if it doesn't do the job.

My functional medicine doctor ran my 23andme results through an analyzer that spit out a ton of "SNP" data. I'm highly mutated on my ALDH2 gene, which is a gene involved in alcohol metabolism. I'm almost certainly deficient in the enzyme it produces that is phase 2 of alcohol breakdown. Without enough of that enzyme, you'd be left with a substance called acetaldehyde cruising through your veins. It's effects are well-documented, and I'm sure this is the root of my problem with alcohol consumption.

Cardiovascular effects of acetaldehyde accumulation after ethanol ingestion: their modification by beta-adrenergic blockade and alcohol dehydrogenase inhibition - PubMed

Accumulation of acetaldehyde in blood was accompanied by marked increases in heart rate (53%) and cardiac output (78%) as well as by decreases in diastolic arterial blood pressure (19%) and peripheral vascular resistance (46%).

With regard to investigating histamine as a possible cause of problems, the best thing you can do is note your activity, especially with regard to what you've eaten, prior to a flare of symptoms.