Had a post in another forum but figure I would pop in here. 4 months ago I woke up with numbness and tingling in my left side and from there it spread just about everywhere within a few days. I’ve been a weekend drinker ~15 drinks sores over 2-3 days for 10 years. I know it’s not nearly as much as most but I have no other explanations. Bloodwork, nerve study, head mri all came out clean. These days it’s stabilized and not getting worse but it’s a roll of the dice of what my symptoms are. The left leg tingling is a daily thing but sometimes I’ll get burning feet, hands, numbness in my arms, etc. I went a month without drinking since this started then 2 months, and each time after it seemed to flare up for about a week before getting a little better. Never went away entirely but nerves will take much longer than that to heal I assume. I also have issues with dizziness and my heart rate spiking randomly but I’m not sure if that’s post Covid related or not since it happened pretty close together. Will be seeing a cardiologist for that.

Anyway I’ll give it 6-12 months and reevaluate. Neurology is pretty much done with me since they found nothing so I’ll just cut out booze entirely and see if that helps. Cant hurt anyway. I’ll just have to travel sober which probably needed to happen anyway. I travel frequently and every day when traveling I would drink quite a bit so I probably underestimated how much I really have been drinking.

Yeah, I know what you are talking about. I am facing my first intercontinental flight without the ability to drink a bottle of wine on board, which will make it pretty boring. I will resort to reading and watching movies. haha.

Cutting down on drinking is a good idea. My life is so much different after just 10 months. I have the strength of a 30+ with 52 years of age. Even with this nightmare of condition. Nerve issues come and go. Mines seem to be affected by: stress, sugar, climatic changes. So I try to cut down on the first two. I hope you will heal and don't despair when you have setbacks, they are natural.

I got some labs back. High liver enzymes and after being pre-diabetic for years, I have finally crossed the line and am officially diabetic. I am not surprised. In abstinence I binge on sugar and still I do little exercises. I have a Dr appointment come Friday to discuss this and depression and anxiety issues.
My feet are largely numb even extending upwards a bit to the calves and then the pins and needles travel up to the thighs. The pins and needles stopped in my feet and calves as well as any pain and i thought that was improvement, but then I realized it was because I was numb meaning the nerves are largely dead. It is my understanding that that means the nerves are dead and that puts me at stage 4 or 5 on the neuropathy scale and that means very unlikely I will improve as it has gone to far. 😢 The other day I took a one mile walk. It may not sound like much but that was quite a feat for me. That night I was having pain in my feet. I have never been so happy to have pain! Also pins and needles and creepy crawlers were back in my lower limbs. I have to believe this is improvement no matter how uncomfortable I am. I have a very high tolerance to pain but it is the weakness and loss of balance that is so scary. If only I could see some improvement there I would be so very happy and grateful. In meantime I just limp and hobble along. Oh, and online I found some really cool canes. I will splurge and get one. Perhaps it will make me feel less self conscious when I use one and it will look like a fashion accessory. I do have a strange sense of style.
I am continuing with my PT but I believe it is a waste of time despite working very hard. I am such a shut in and loner but I find I enjoy the interaction with the people at PT. As my health improves and my self confidence grows I will encourage myself to get out, make friends and join the living.

I was going to pester Icehouse for not checking in but I saw:




That's the downside of such a long thread: many pages/moons ago I was very vocal about sugar. My pain never went away until I decided to eat an anti-inflammatory diet, which is nothing fancy, but just trying to avoid fast carbs and most certainly: sugar. In any form, natural sugar is sugar. Orange juice is the same for your liver (give or take) as whisky. Makes sense, as in the end alcohol is just fermented sugar. We have five year olds with fatty livers these days, and it's certainly not from them boozing up.


After quitting drinking for a year, I binged on food. Then I got myself in gear again, and did a year long healthy diet. Nothing strict. Still ate french fries once a week. Well, my triglycerides went down 70%, my sugar level was perfect, my liver was completely healed. My GP had my cholesterol tests done twice because she couldn't believe the numbers. HDL up, LDL down, triglyc. annihilated.



Yes, there is more to it, like portion sizes, skipping meals when you don't feel hungry, no snacking etc. but overall it wasn't too hard and had spectacular results. FWIW I read a few days ago that a study indeed proved that a decent diet could get 90% of full on T2 diabetics back to non diabetic level, just by diet alone (exercise is a plus, but won't do much about weight, that's more about cardiac health).



So yes: sugar. I know I used it as a little helper to really stay off the booze, but after a year that "diet" (it's not a diet really, just watching what you eat and knowing that even honey is just as bad as sugar when it comes to our liver) made me feel so.much.better.



Give it a try, turn it around, you have agency here. After that year my dietary hormones were back in balance and I could ease off without immediately blowing up again. Yet still today, when I feel a bit too much pain, I get back to watching sugar intake like a hawk.


Hope this helps, keep the faith!

Yeah, yeah. I’m a little behind this month. In my defense I was in the Smokey Mountains enjoying a lovely log cabin with my wife. Not much Internet up there…

4050 days sober but I am having some blood pressure issues so I have some neurological and cardiovascular appointments this month. Nothing to worry about yet, but who knows what long term damage I did to myself.

Anyway, diabetes, that jerk runs in my family so I keep an eye on it.

But, I 100% agree that it can be controlled by diet. There are lots of Docs and people that have reversed it with plant diets, or like Wide-O mentioned, limiting carbs and sugar.

You can do it I’m so happy you are feeling better, Secondchances!!

Sorry to hear that Icehouse, I'm sure it's nothing, but we did hammer our bodies didn't we? No doubt about it.



Hope it turns out to be nothing, or at least nothing that can't be managed. :cool:


PS: log cabin, log cabin, tssk. You could have least brought a Starlink or something. ;)

Without a doubt!

I am pretty sure I know what it is....I will fill y'all in next week ;)

BTW, I love getting away with no Internet...I hate being dependent on it.

Some days I miss the 80's. The music, the cars, the simplicity....

I know. I did the same in 2018. Three months in Italy without even looking at my devices. It's very ... liberating.


No argument from me there! Going to uni, playing in a band, it was a great decade. :cool: Oh, and I STILL want a BMW M3 E30 (how's that for 80's cars - although the original Quattro would do too!), but the prices of those things are through the roof. :eek:

Any M series would be fun! I had a 318 for a short time...

I still wake up at night thinking about my old Porsche 914. :D

I would like an S6 Quattro Avant (6-speed) but I will let that dream percolate for some time.....

Heh, I had the 318iS E30 - which was considered the baby M3 back then. Pretty great car - coming from a beat up 323i (which kills you quicker than you can say "watch out")



Well, I sold my trusty Lancer Evo 9 back in November. I sold it after 15 years for ... exactly the price I bought it for. And to make it completely funny: I sold it to the dealer who sold me the car back in the day. :cool:




They are nice, but oddly enough both Audi and BMW have done several steps back in engineering. For the S6, if you want to replace the oil filter for the turbo (tiny part that can get clogged up), you need half the bloody engine out. I was a big fan of the original S4 wagon though, but a bit too rich for my purse. Instead I had a Volvo 850 T5, which was quite fun too.

Sold the play toy? I hope you didn't buy a damn Prius! ;)

Welcome to anything 2000 and above....

While we are dreaming.... 2012 Cadillac CTS-V Wagon :eek:

BTW, heart is fine, blood pressure is fine now. I may have to quit cigars as they are messing with my BP.

Worse! A 2012 Toyota Avensis diesel. :D I think I sold at the top, the Toyota is very boring, but economical, lots of space (wagon), lots of features, and indestructable really. And it looks like new, even inside, which is quite amazing for a 10 year old "taxi". For a 5th of the price of "the toy".



Can't keep a good man down though, so when the markets clear up a bit, who knows. :cool:



That's good to hear. Well not for the cigar industry but you know what I mean. ;)

Had to Google that one! Looks like our Camry...but we don't have the diesel option on many cars anymore :icon_rolleyes:

5-spd at least?

6 even. But I miss about 250 BHP so I really need them LOL.:D Manual of course. (although the BMW auto boxes are pretty incredible lately)

I am very frightened. My legs are very bad. When I stand my legs are so weak it feels like they will buckle beneath me. I am under enormous stress always but worse just now so that may be a factor but sure feels like they are progressively worse. I did not expect miracles but at least was hoping to stop the progression.
Last week my pre-diabetic status was upgraded to diabetic. I'm actually not surprised as without drinking I crave carbs and sugar and so indulging since the worse of two evils. I will need go to a nutritionist because I know so little other than to stop or limit the carbs and sugar. Also recent labs show elevated liver and kidney levels. Why would they still be going up without drinking?

K, so other than the basics of eat right, exercise as best I can, quit smoking, and the supplements, anything else you can think of that might help?
I was hoping that the joys of sobriety would bring a new life which included better health, decreased depression and anxiety, maybe even the opportunity to get out, make friends and even a little job, but it's not happening. I am just going downhill. I am struggling to not stay off the pitty pot too long but do allow myself to grieve all my losses, both self induced and the horrific pain brought on by others. Self reflection is important as I ran away with alcohol for far too long but it will take me down if I get to confronting all my demons and facing my reality all at once.

I know I should start doing meetings. I am what we call a dry drunk. I don't know why I am so intimidated, I did them for years and never found more love and acceptance than with all those wonderful people. Part maybe there is no one to force me like previously when my sponsor insisted I do my 90 in 90. I know the other issue is that I have a bit of social anxiety thing going on.

Well any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Anything you all did that I am not doing that helped your neuropathy? Another major set back was my physical therapist. I have been going there for weeks for a bad back. I have done PT numerous times for this issue with no improvement so gave up a long while ago. Only recently started up and I gotta say this therapist really knows his stuff. He is remarkable and brought me far when all others failed. We have also been working on balance and strengthing of legs just for overall well being and not specifically neuropathy related but when I asked him what could we do to focus on the neuropathy he said "Nothing". It is impossible to treat. I guess I knew this but he is such a miracle worker I had been hopeful and actually dreaded asking. I was afraid what he might say.

That is how I felt before I put myself in a wheelchair about 12 years ago.

Eat well, get some moderate exercise, keep up the PT and maybe look for a Celebrate Recovery group near you. 12 step with a kick ;)

But Icehouse, also know that I was diagnosed 2011 with alcoholic neuropathy when it was just slight tingling after a long day standing on my feet. It has just progressed from there. I understand the longer it goes on the less chance of recovery. Wasn't yours a quicker onset?
Recovery prognosis online is very vague and non-committal but basically says nothing except "It might get better and it might not". Ugh, thanks for that but good no one is giving out false hope I guess? Question for my friends here.....perhaps someone can confirm or offer their understanding. So my pain, tingling and pins and needles in feet and calves had totally stopped and I was very encouraged and optimistic but then I recall reading that once you no longer feel those sensations it means the nerves are completely dead with no chance of regeneration and only the weakness, numbness and atrophy remain. 😥 Now the pain is back along with all the other issues. Does anyone think this a good sign? I had read it often gets worse before better and this is a sign of healing. I doubt if anyone knows but had to ask.
I am definitely at the worse I have ever been. Def wheelchair bound soon if this conditions continues.I had been using a cane but only when I had to walk more than a couple blocks and more so for just in case and assurity but never had to use it. Yeah, I seriously considering a walker for at least if I had to get up during night or when first up in morning. Ugh, this sucks.
Thanks all for listening. I won't even go to a doctor about this and I lie to everyone as I flop all over and I get the ******* constant joke of "Hey, isn't it a little early to be drunk". Ha, ha. No, I destroyed my life by drinking too much. Still think it's funny?

If 4 years is quick then, yes.
I think pain is a good sign. I remember having no feeling at all in some parts of my feet.
I destroyed my life too, but I built a new one. That is why I am still here, encouragement and a glimmer of hope.
Not funny at all, but nothing is impossible.

I suspect stress is a huge part. It's intense here. Also I don't know if I mentioned this but I was pre-diabetic for years but with quitting the boose I indulged in sweets and salty carb snacks. Now I am full blown diabetic. That certainly is likely adding to my declining mobility.

I want to be as succint as possible: sugar is unfermented alcohol. It's almost just as bad for neuropathy, and just as bad for your liver.


My biggest gains happened when I switched to an anti-inflammatory diet that I kept up for at least a year.


You can become a non-diabetic again by just changing your diet. No pills needed. Just look at all forms of sugar (and that includes natural ones in orange juice, or honey etc.) and remove them from your diet without going overboard.


If it comes in a packet, the cardboard has probably more nutrition than the content. Fresh is key.

Avoid "fat free" stuff. Fat doesn't make you as fat (which is pretty ironic) as glucose does. And "low fat" always contains extra sugar, otherwise it would taste like old socks.

Don't overdo it. I indulged once a week (french fries etc), I didn't want it to become a chore. I actually had fun figuring out how it all worked, what was fad, and what was science.

I lost 34 kg in one year, and my triglycerides went from 500 to 150 (!).

I know this is the internet, but trust me, this really happened.

Am I cured? Nope. Still need pain killers. Stress makes everything 10 times worse. Be kind to yourself, treat your body, catch some sunshine, and try to relax. :cool:

Sugar cravings can be a sign of the need of amino acids. A tea spoon of L Glutamine can fight those cravings off. L Glutamine also helps maintain gut lining for those with leaky gut.

Consider Berberine. This is a herb with a similar action to Metformin. Berberine can keep blood sugar down, avoiding glucose spikes following meals.

4079 days sober!

Sorry I missed yesterday...but I sure I will be forgiven for my tardiness ;)

So, my low blood pressure is vasovagal syncope which I think is triggered by cigar smoking. So, I quit those a couple months ago and hopefully find the reason for sporadic fainting. But, I have been on heart monitor, had a CT Scan, an echocardiogram and and EEG too. All came back normal. But, during all these tests I found out I have small hernia (surgery in December) and have a tiny kidney stone!

I love getting older :D

New to this so forgive me if I am retreading covered ground.

I am fairly certain I have alcohol induced neuropathy. But I do not follow the regular pattern at all. I woke up one day with the feeling of a very bad bruise on the bottom of my right foot. Eventually it morphed into feeling like the bottom of the foot was swollen in addition to pain. This was all on the bottom of my right foot at the ball of the foot. About nine months later I began getting the feeling of a bunched up sock on my left ball of foot as well. My left hand's fingers also began to tingle a bit and my hand would cramp.

A little over a year from the initial onset I stopped drinking, before this time I was still looking for mechanical causes on my foot (i.e. a neuroma, etc...).

I stopped drinking about a year ago. The pain lessened in the six months after stopping drinking but the discomfort has persisted. Not as bad when walking but standing is very unpleasant.

Has anybody else had a similar onset where it went from zero to painful without a progression of numbness or tingling? And if so has anybody had the symptoms fully resolve? Cutting right to it I feel like my case is different than everyone else's I read about (the progression certainly seems to be abnormal) and I am worried my healing has stopped as it seems for the past 3-4 months to not be improving or to be moving slightly backwards (although marginally and who the hell knows it could be flare ups or in my head). This whole condition feels a bit like a mental game.

Thank you to anyone and everyone for any insight.

4109 days sober!
Took a trip to Philadelphia, PA, what a crap hole that city has become.
We also went to Charleston, SC.....what a beautiful city! Lots of walking, lots of food and too much history to absorb.

Legs feel good, been upping my time on the elliptical and I hope to move on to the treadmill soon and get some running in! Ug...I hate running.

Not in my case, that is for sure.

I am not convinced it's AN...but more of a lack of something vital in the body.

I would see a foot specialist and focus more on diet and getting your body levels correct. Full blood workup to start.

Just my $.02

Yeah. I saw a podiatrist and an orthopedic surgeon. The orthopedic is who told me he thought it was neurological. I went to a neurologist who thought out could be AN. I had the nerve conduction tests and they were normal. But that wouldn’t show the small fiber kind which I’m thinking it is. I guess I could confirm with a punch biopsy. I was hoping somebody else could shed light via a similar experience. I know you all know, but the lack of literature on this condition is frustrating. Congrats on the continued success icehouse!

I had the conduction test done, and as I technically have poly-neuropathy, they could clearly measure the damage from my calves downwards.



I went from the feeling something was wrong (pebble in my shoe?) to full blown pain in a few weeks. I never really felt numbness until the pain subsided.



It can be a wild and expensive goose chase to find you if you "have it" or not. Then the next chase is "is it AN or not" etc. In truth, it's not helpful to know. There is no difference in treatment options.


Bloodwork (just to be sure, things like B12), eating healthy, stop alcohol intake, reduce stress, exercise. They are the only real actions we can take.



It is frustrating, for sure. There may not be much useful literature as there is currently no real "cure" - other than taking those sensible steps.


OTOH I'm extremely happy to have bitten the bullet and become sober, and I bet Icehouse feels just the same. There are some hurdles, but life can be good again.

Yes, sir. I have never been happier...

Yeah losing some weight and seeing my cholesterol drop was a nice bonus. I’m less concerned about drinking or not than I am having my feet return to normal. I guess maybe that means I’m not fighting the exact same battle as some of you all out there but either way I’m hoping we all get to a place of peace and health.

Neuropathy blows and alcohol is poison. That much is clear.

I know this sounds like a stupid question but for your numbness is it truly feeling nothing or is/was it more it feels kind of swollen (not painful) but feeling seems off.?

The best I can describe it is it feels like my feet are encased in cement. So I guess I feel it. Like having 6 pairs of socks on.

In my case it was numbness in my pinky fingers and the bottoms of my feet. The tops of my feet and shin\calves were in a constant state of "pins and needles".

All gone now....

Sorry for all the questions but I’m kind of freaked out about this.

My experience has been issues when seated with feet on ground, also when walking and worst by far when standing. However if I try to press on my feet with my hands, for instance, I cannot recreate the issue/sensations. It just seems so weird that pressing on my feet doesn’t elicit the sensation. I’m so confused. Has anybody else has a similar situation?

Lastly my progress after six months of not drinking stalled and now about two weeks from my one year anniversary of sobriety it seems to be getting a little worse (though not as bad as it was when I stopped drinking). Has anybody else has this and if so did they continue to tend in the right direction even after seemingly getting worse?

Thanks again!

What you are experiencing is "normal". It's a weird ailment.



In short, our nerves are protected by a myeline sheath, a bit like insulation around electrical wires. That sheath is damaged, nerves are "exposed", the electricity flowing through them doesn't make sense, and your brain freaks out.


50% of that is "in your head". The more you calm down, adapt to and accept something is not right, the less pain and discomfort you will feel. But there will always be discomfort (until the next scientific breakthrough). Sure, it is a real physical problem, but the way you mentally handle it is extremely important. (very similar to tinnitus really)



Does that make sense?



It's normal to ask the questions though. I freaked out for 3 years at first.

Makes a ton of sense Wide-O, thank you. I’m a bit of an obsessor so I am particularly susceptible to freaking out. Thank you for understanding and responding to my questions. It is very helpful and comforting to be able to communicate with others who have walked this road.

I think from reading past posts you had flare ups but tended to trend in the right direction in the long run. Maybe not quickly but even when you were having days that seemed like setbacks I think you said you continued to move the right direction in the long run. If I’m correct, did your “flare ups” include times where it seemed like areas that had not been affected were mildly affected? I’m not saying it spread from your foot to your calf necessarily, but it feels like it has spread from only one spot on the ball of my foot to the entire ball of my foot. It makes me worry that it wasn’t just the alcohol. That it’s “idiopathic” and the alcohol just exacerbated it. Any thoughts or comments are welcome and appreciated. Thank you!!!!!

Happy to be of use.:)


Not really: my peak moment of pain was before I went into rehab. From there things got better, and then got *much* better when I started on a very sensible diet.



It did seem like it wanted to spread to the tips of my fingers at some point (I was playing piano and got really scared, hence why I remember so vividly), but hat was a false alarm. (just getting old LOL)


It stayed exactly where it first emerged, in my feet (ball of feet, toes -big ones in particular-, very symmetric too). I had weird stuff like cramps, like my big toe wanted to part ways and go live on its own. That was rather painful, eek. But it stayed around the same area.



The symptoms change, but should not get continually worse over time. But at some point, sorry, it's not gonna get better. You learn to live with a certain amount of pain. But yes, overall, despite setbacks, the long term trend was up, not down.



It could well be idiopathic in your case, worsened by alcohol or a lack of B12 or a reaction to a med you took x years ago, who knows? PN is crazy, it truly is. Some days I get up and for no reason it's all pain from down there, the weather is ****, it's an uphill battle. But you get through it, and learn to live with both the ups and the downs. (normal people will never feel the relief you can feel after a particularly bad PN flare, and then it subsides...)


Not saying "just stop looking for answers", but "don't let the lack of concrete answers hold you back in doing the sensible changes you can make" and "don't let the stress just make it worse".



I understand obsessive looking for answers very well, I did the same for years and years. In the end, the practical approach was the only useful one: stop drinking, eat well, sleep well, work on relaxation, get bloodwork done, and don't forget to enjoy life in between it all. Stress is a killer.

Wide-O, your case sounds a lot like mine. The balls of the feet, particularly behind the big and second toe are where I feel it the most. Largely symmetric. Pain definitely peaked right before I got sober. Now I don’t have much pain, just discomfort. The discomfort is fine in short spells but can wear me down when I have to stand for more than a few minutes.

How long after you stopped drinking did you hit your baseline? Said another way, do you know roughly when the improvement stopped and you hit the point of “this is probably as healed as the nerves will get”?

Also I’m mostly fine barefoot but shoes tend to activate the issue. Any similarities there?

Thank you again for the counsel. Scary stuff.

:p I am the complete opposite. I am WAY better with shoes on as the bottoms of my feet are now over-sensitive and being barefoot throws off my gait a tad.

Pedicures are no longer fun.

Thanks Icehouse. Yeah it seems like shoes press against the area on the ball of my foot. Whereas barefoot that area doesn’t make as much contact.

If you don’t mind me asking, how long did your symptoms improve for? I’m hoping for more improvement but I’m a year into sobriety and feel like I’ve stalled out. Frankly I’m going through a pretty dark period.

It was six months in a walker, over a year with a cane and it took about 4 years before I felt "normal".

My legs are still improving after 11 years....I am not 100%...I may never be.