advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-01-2018, 07:24 AM #11
MCEC5 MCEC5 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 19
5 yr Member
MCEC5 MCEC5 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 19
5 yr Member
Default

Hi Glen,

I stumbled across this thread. Hope you don’t mind a few additional questions.
Are/Were you on any specific regimens, diets, supplement protocols etc.?
Do continue to take gabapentin or other meds or did you stop once the healing started?
Any autonomic symptoms during your journey or purely sensory stuff?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--my first skin biopsy at the height of my syndrome showed that I was in the third percentile of intraepidermal nerve fiber density; one two years later when symptoms were much reduced was at the 17th percentile, with the nerve fibers in much better condition (and was designated "normal"). Of course, no one has any idea what percentile I was at before all this started; density percentiles from 5 to 95, in the absence of evidence of actual fiber degeneration, are considered "normal" (which always seemed to me rather arbitrary--it's an artifact of the protocols of the original norming studies done at Johns Hopkins).

And, absolutely, through that whole healing process (and still sometimes) I have gotten burns, zaps, phantom sensations, parastheses, the whole host of odd and unusual sensations that are not objectively produced by external touch or reactions to temperature. And yes, a lot of them have felt like those that I have experienced in the damage phase. It's one of the reasons I have always encouraged people to keep detailed symptom diaries; it's often hard to tell the patterns except in long term retrospect. With healing, generally these sensation will crop up but they will be more intermittent and will eventually recede, but one may not be able to tell that unless comparing over months.
MCEC5 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote

advertisement
Old 12-01-2018, 08:38 AM #12
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
Default I did stop--

--taking Gabapentin as the symptoms waned, but since I had gotten up to 2700mg/day it took me some nine months to wean off it completely. The standard protocols with Gabapentin reduction tend to recommend a reduction of 100mg/week by I went even more slowly as I wanted to minimize any chance of major rebound pain or increased seizure possibility due to central nervous system signalling upregulation during the Gabapentin redgimen (Gabapentin tends to work by suppressing central nervous system signalling rate as many anti-seizure meds do).

I wasn't on any special nutritional regimen other than the general recommendations that tend to be made--I took 1000mcg of methylcobalamin B12 three times a week, fish oil and magnesium citrate each day. I tried a trial of 100mg/day R-lipoic acid for some months but didn't think it was having much of a effect so I weaned down and stopped that.

There may have been some slight autonomic symptoms from time to time, though I emphasize slight, mostly regarding blood pressure and sweat responses. It is common for people with small fiber syndromes to have some degree of autonomic symptomology though for the majority these tend to be minor and often subclinical.
glenntaj is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Joe Duffer (03-29-2019)
Old 12-01-2018, 04:24 PM #13
6thCranialNerve 6thCranialNerve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 64
5 yr Member
6thCranialNerve 6thCranialNerve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 64
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalx View Post
Hello, new here. Will try and make this short and to the point.

Last year, March 29th 2017, was the start of a bad gut infection that came out of no where. Had the full work up after it wasn’t subsiding on its own. Colonoscopy, stool samples, CT scan, the whole 9. They found a lot of inflammation during the scope, even in my small intestine. Said it could possibly be Crohn’s. Ended up headed to an IBD specialist who assured me he was sure it was a bad bug. Follow up inflammation check 3 months later, it was all cleared up.

In the midst of this, I had my first neurological symptom on June 17th 2017, starting in my face and quickly went body wide. Twitching all over, strange feelings in hands and feet, burning, numbness in hands, etc. juggled through about 4 neurologists who all shrugged me off after clean EMg’s and brain MRIs, I finally saw an SFN specialist. Skin biopsy proved I was positive for SFN.

Long story short, none of the extensive testing I had done at mayo showed up with anything, except for a “normal” b12 of 344. I felt this was low, so have been supplementing since. He said he thinks the gut infection was the cause of this, and I should heal up in time. Said this damage usually peaks, and then slowly starts to heal. Nothing I read online speaks much of SFN healing, nor do I find recovery stories. I do have to say, that I feel this peaked around October of last year, and symptoms have definitely improved. They are very up and down, with new ones popping up and leaving so it is very hard to tell. The severity of the worst of my symptoms are definitely better, though. Is this a good sign?

Do people really recover from SFN? What does nerve regrowth feel like?
Most of everything we eat, if not all of, affect our health. Our food chain is being assaulted on several fronts. Plastics in the ocean have made it into our food sources, fracking is poisoning our water tables, pesticides are creating food allergies at the least and altering our DNA at the very worst, and climate change affecting the quality of our crops. End of day, we can cure ourselves if we change what we put in our bodies. We are addicted to sugar; myself included. That is probably the single worst thing we consume.
6thCranialNerve is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Joe Duffer (03-29-2019)
Old 12-29-2018, 04:29 PM #14
Digitalx Digitalx is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
5 yr Member
Digitalx Digitalx is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
5 yr Member
Default

Hi Glen,

Thanks for the information. I know it has been awhile, but did you deal with muscle fasciculations? Did you have random symptoms/sensations pop up all over the place, even in new places that would wouldn't stick?

I'm very curious about the details, as I'm currently in the middle of this, 1.5 years in. The severity of the worst of my symptoms have definitely improved, but I still get random symptoms and sensations almost anywhere on my body that seem to pop up, last anywhere from minutes to days, possibly even a week and then simply disappear as quickly as they came. Nothing seems to stick outside of some of the original symptoms, and those are definitely less severe.

I do have one symptom that showed up about 3 months ago and has not left since - my left lower eyelid keeps twitching. Did you have anything like this?

At the peak of this, my hands were numbing, burning, textures felt SUPER strange and uncomfortable.. today, my hands feel so much better when comparing to this. Yet along side some of the relief, like I mentioned above, I still get random symptoms and sensations, but nothing super concerning outside of the eye twitch I've had.

Would like to hear your thoughts on this


Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--my first skin biopsy at the height of my syndrome showed that I was in the third percentile of intraepidermal nerve fiber density; one two years later when symptoms were much reduced was at the 17th percentile, with the nerve fibers in much better condition (and was designated "normal"). Of course, no one has any idea what percentile I was at before all this started; density percentiles from 5 to 95, in the absence of evidence of actual fiber degeneration, are considered "normal" (which always seemed to me rather arbitrary--it's an artifact of the protocols of the original norming studies done at Johns Hopkins).

And, absolutely, through that whole healing process (and still sometimes) I have gotten burns, zaps, phantom sensations, parastheses, the whole host of odd and unusual sensations that are not objectively produced by external touch or reactions to temperature. And yes, a lot of them have felt like those that I have experienced in the damage phase. It's one of the reasons I have always encouraged people to keep detailed symptom diaries; it's often hard to tell the patterns except in long term retrospect. With healing, generally these sensation will crop up but they will be more intermittent and will eventually recede, but one may not be able to tell that unless comparing over months.
Digitalx is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 04:54 PM #15
Digitalx Digitalx is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
5 yr Member
Digitalx Digitalx is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
5 yr Member
Default

I did forget to mention a few things. As I mentioned in the beginning of this thread, my autonomic symptoms are so much better as well. I had a lot of deep aching in the palms of my hands towards the beginning of this as well, and I have not had that in quite some time now as well. I like to think the symptom improvements are a good thing, but this is along side random new symptoms, and in new places that come and go.

Now to make things more confusing, my first set of biopsies were done only 3 months from the start of the first symptom (Sept 17'), and repeat biopsies done this Sept 18', and they are worse, yet my symptoms have improved. I do feel like my symptoms peaked after my initial biopsies, It's all very confusing. I tend to wonder if I had my first set of biopsies too soon at the start of this, in the middle of damage, and therefore the numbers are skewed - neuro tends to think this is possible as well, and this is the same doctor that thinks this should heal up, and still seems to think that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--my first skin biopsy at the height of my syndrome showed that I was in the third percentile of intraepidermal nerve fiber density; one two years later when symptoms were much reduced was at the 17th percentile, with the nerve fibers in much better condition (and was designated "normal"). Of course, no one has any idea what percentile I was at before all this started; density percentiles from 5 to 95, in the absence of evidence of actual fiber degeneration, are considered "normal" (which always seemed to me rather arbitrary--it's an artifact of the protocols of the original norming studies done at Johns Hopkins).

And, absolutely, through that whole healing process (and still sometimes) I have gotten burns, zaps, phantom sensations, parastheses, the whole host of odd and unusual sensations that are not objectively produced by external touch or reactions to temperature. And yes, a lot of them have felt like those that I have experienced in the damage phase. It's one of the reasons I have always encouraged people to keep detailed symptom diaries; it's often hard to tell the patterns except in long term retrospect. With healing, generally these sensation will crop up but they will be more intermittent and will eventually recede, but one may not be able to tell that unless comparing over months.
Digitalx is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-30-2018, 07:59 AM #16
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,857
15 yr Member
Default I still do get--

--some intermittent symptoms, including small fasiculations/twitches. The fasciculations, though, tend to be in my arms, which leads me to believe they may not be related to the original neuropathic process but rather the far more mundane cervical spine disease I have. I have considerable foraminal narrowing and nerve root compression at several levels of my cervical spine, and do get symptoms in my shoulders, arms, and hands from that, although good physical therapy has lessened the symptoms and kept me out of the surgical suite so far.

This, of course, points up the fact that it's often very hard to distinguish neural symptoms caused by spinal processes from those caused by more peripheral ones, as they can be experienced similarly. It's also why a search for the causes of neural symptoms is often very long and very process of elimination, if you can even get physicians to maintain that degree of interest (and your insurance approving further testing).
glenntaj is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
echoes long ago (12-30-2018)
Old 01-24-2019, 04:12 PM #17
dpcholes dpcholes is offline
Newly Joined
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
5 yr Member
dpcholes dpcholes is offline
Newly Joined
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--that I've found in case report medical literature that experienced an acute-onset (as in hours), full-body, small-fiber Guillain Barre like syndrome, though I suspect that this is probably somewhat more common than reported. (I don't think many neurologists recognize it and it is hard for patients experiencing it to explain what is happening--the vocabulary for nerve pain is very difficult. I used to say "imagine you get a sudden sunburn all over your entire body and the someone rubs it with steel wool".)

I don't have a lot of time this morning, but one can definitely read about my journey here at Neurotalk (and in a lot of other places; I've been very public about all this since it started back on April 11 2003).

In sum, though, the peak of symptomology lasted about 4-6 months, though I was fortunately more functional after ramping up to a rather high dose of Neurontin early in the journey--fortunately that drug helped me considerably. In the early stages I couldn't even wear clothing, as the burning pain was both spontaneous and easily induced, even by a breeze.

Very exhaustive investigations did not reveal a cause; I had normal results on all tests, except on skin biopsy, which did show small fiber neuropathy. Autoimmune mechanisms were suspected, but not proven. The usual idea with these cases is molecular mimicry--the body is invaded by a pathogen, fights it off with an immune response, but the pathogen's molecular shape is similar to that of some bodily tissue and the now activated immune system cannot distinguish friend from foe (a lot of immune system response is shape-based or "key-in-lock"), so that bodily tissue gets attacked. In my case it seems it was small fiber nerve. I never had any apparent large fiber involvement or motor symptoms.

I did notice small improvement towards the end of the first year, and it is typical of these syndromes to result in very slow, partial, patchy recovery. And yes, one gets all sorts of weird sensations as nerves regrow--as I often write, it's touch to distinguish these from worsening, except in long term retrospect.

I'm about 85-90% recovered, and this is montiored with skin biopsies every two years. My intraepidermal nerve fiber density increased considerably over the first decade and has stabilized now, though who knows if it got back to what it would have been originally, had I been tested when "normal". (No one gets a skin biopsy for NO symptoms, except the original norming cohorts.) But, yes, I've gotten intermittent flares over the years, and I am of course subject to all sorts of compressive effects as I've described, probably having more symptoms from those than a "normal" person would have (such as from spinal foraminal compromise, which I do have a lot of in my neck/cervical spine--separate issue, but it wouldn't be as bad, we think,if the syndrome hadn't happened).

It sounds like you may have experienced something analagous, and with some autonomic aspects added in--since many autonomic functions are small fiber controlled, having autonomic symptoms is not uncommon in small fiber syndromes, acute or chronic.
Did you do anything specifically to help you recover?
dpcholes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 04:30 PM #18
changejobs changejobs is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10
10 yr Member
changejobs changejobs is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10
10 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--taking Gabapentin as the symptoms waned, but since I had gotten up to 2700mg/day it took me some nine months to wean off it completely. The standard protocols with Gabapentin reduction tend to recommend a reduction of 100mg/week by I went even more slowly as I wanted to minimize any chance of major rebound pain or increased seizure possibility due to central nervous system signalling upregulation during the Gabapentin redgimen (Gabapentin tends to work by suppressing central nervous system signalling rate as many anti-seizure meds do).

I wasn't on any special nutritional regimen other than the general recommendations that tend to be made--I took 1000mcg of methylcobalamin B12 three times a week, fish oil and magnesium citrate each day. I tried a trial of 100mg/day R-lipoic acid for some months but didn't think it was having much of a effect so I weaned down and stopped that.

There may have been some slight autonomic symptoms from time to time, though I emphasize slight, mostly regarding blood pressure and sweat responses. It is common for people with small fiber syndromes to have some degree of autonomic symptomology though for the majority these tend to be minor and often subclinical.
i notieced you took Gabapentin for your SFN. how long were you on it. did you have any side effects? how did you know is was time to come off it?
changejobs is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bad, feel, gut, infection, sfn


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does anyone know what caused my MG? UncleBob Myasthenia Gravis 5 10-19-2014 10:54 PM
What do you think caused your ALS? BobbyB ALS 12 10-02-2014 01:00 PM
Paresthesia caused by small infection mary jane New Member Introductions 3 12-29-2013 11:53 AM
Eye infection from a possible root canal infection? aali Dentistry & Dental Issues 1 07-16-2013 11:43 PM
Jaw infection vs head edema--viral infection ? worsePainthanHouse Dentistry & Dental Issues 0 07-15-2012 02:13 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.