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Old 11-20-2020, 04:41 AM #21
Atticus Atticus is offline
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Originally Posted by jelinx View Post
of course...plants have sugar: dates, oranges, grapes, etc., etc., etc. and if you eat fruits that are dehydrated, the sugar is more concentrated.
I intended to write an update on my dietary approach to PN, but I remembered this contribution by Jelinx and I want to comment on this first.


A lot of evidence has shown that excessive intake of added sugar is harmful. No question.
Many people also believe that because added sugars are bad, the same must apply to fruits, which also contain fructose. However, this is a misconception. Fructose is only harmful in large amounts, and it’s difficult to get excessive amounts of fructose from fruit. In addition fruit contains

1. Fibre

Fruits are loaded with fibre, water and have significant chewing resistance.
For this reason, most fruits (like apples) take a while to eat and digest, meaning that the fructose hits the liver slowly. Furthermore the soluble fibre in fruit has a gelling effect in our intestines that slows the release of sugars.

Fibre, especially soluble fibre, has many benefits, including reduced cholesterol levels, slowed absorption of carbs and increased satiety.

Most people will feel satisfied after eating one large apple, which contains 23 grams of sugar, 13 of which are fructose (4).
Compare that to a 16-ounce bottle of Coke, which contains 52 grams of sugar, 30 of which are fructose, and has no nutritional value

2. Phytonutrients

Phytonutrients are natural chemicals or compounds produced by plants. They keep plants healthy, protecting them from insects and the sun. They can be found in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, tea, nuts, beans and spices.

There are fruit phytonutrients that inhibit the transportation of sugars through the intestinal wall into our blood stream. Phytonutrients in foods like apples and strawberries can block some of the uptake of sugars by the cells lining our intestines.

So to conclude, sugars found in fruits are not the same as added sugars found in table sugar and high fructose corn syrup.

The Global Burden of Disease Study published in 2012, is the most comprehensive and systematic analysis of causes of death undertaken to date, involving nearly 500 researchers from more than 300 institutions in 50 countries, and starting with almost 100,000 data sources. What did the researchers find? In the U.S., they determined that the biggest killer was diet. Number 1 on their list of the most important dietary risks was not eating enough fruit, responsible for an estimated 4.9 million deaths a year around the world. Number 2, incidentally was smoking.


This is a short informative video

We Shouldn't Eat Sugar Including Fruit? - YouTube
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:23 AM #22
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Hi All, I thought I would follow up on the effects a whole food plant based diet has had on my sfn. Unfortunately for me I don’t see any improvement in my symptoms. They have progressed slightly. That is not to say that a plant based diet is not good for people with sfn, I believe it depends on the cause of one’s neuropathy. Mine may be linked to alcohol consumption and that might be the reason I am not seeing progress. Perhaps more time is needed so I am going to stay the course but wanted to give an update for anyone out there that might be following this thread. Wishing you all the best.
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:25 PM #23
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I'm 80 years old and have suffered with Chronic Idiopathic Polyneuropathy (CIP) for 30 years. I believe in and have adopted a strict plant based diet, but my symptoms didn't improve until I got some help from my PCP. Researchers have found no cause of CIP but have found it gets worse with age. Oh great! My PCP prescribed high doses of Gabapenti and a psychiatrist put me on Remeron to help me sleep at night and Xanax. It has been a godsend when it goes crazy throughout my body. I rarely take more than one mg a day. I also found a Chinese herb called Corydalis to be helpful.
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:43 PM #24
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Wade Senior, I agree, a plant based diet is very beneficial for our health. I am sorry you have had to endure so much for so many years and happy to hear that you found some relief. This is a dreadful disease we have to deal with. Thank God there are options when we need them. Thanks for the information.
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Old 01-21-2021, 04:40 PM #25
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I'm not sure a plant-based diet is healthy in the long term - protein is the main factor here. Unless you have plant-based protein shakes, nothing comes close to animal meat lb for lb for protein density. If you lack protein in your diet, you can end up with a whole host of ailments.
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:15 AM #26
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Originally Posted by CMTMatt View Post
I'm not sure a plant-based diet is healthy in the long term - protein is the main factor here. Unless you have plant-based protein shakes, nothing comes close to animal meat lb for lb for protein density. If you lack protein in your diet, you can end up with a whole host of ailments.
Well a plant based diet isn't for everyone particularly if you believe that protein is the golden egg that the food industry want you to believe it is. Such is the power of the word 'Protein' you can label any rubbish "High Protein" and sell it as a health food to anyone who doesn't bother to validate it themselves.

In addition the meat industry drip feeds us from childhood the belief that meat is nutrient dense when it is the opposite.

Animal-based protein such as eggs, cow’s milk, meat, and fish contain adequate amounts of all nine essential amino acids, making them complete proteins. Many plant-based foods, such as soybeans, chia and hemp seeds, spinach, and quinoa are also complete protein sources. Although many plant-based foods are considered complete proteins, some plant based foods may be deficient in one or more essential amino acids. These are known as complementary proteins. Complementary proteins can be combined throughout the day so that if one food is low in one essential amino acid, the deficit can be made up with another food. A variety fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, whole grains, and legumes throughout the day will provide sufficient protein. In fact, the right plant-based foods are actually healthier sources of protein than animal products since they usually contain fewer calories, less fat, no cholesterol, more fibre and more nutrients (like potassium, iron, magnesium, folate, and vitamins A and C)

Excess animal protein is linked with kidney disease, osteoporosis, cancers, type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Animal products, even lean-looking meats, are often associated with large amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol.

There is strong evidence to suggest it is excess protein per se which plays a part in all of these diseases.


The average adult needs to consume between 45 and 56 grams of protein per day.To give you a comparison between some meat and plant based products, a standard 50g beef burger contains 10.2g of protein; half a 415g can of baked beans contains 11.5g of protein; an average serving of pasta (190g cooked) contains 8.5g, an average serving of kidney beans (160g cooked) 12.4g.


The myth that we should eat more protein dates back to the beginning of the last century. The majority view back then was that health – and especially fitness – depended on eating generous amounts of protein, particularly meat (Millward, 2004). It was even reckoned that animal protein was the solution to wiping out child malnutrition in the third world (Autret, 1963; Gounelle de Pontanel, 1972; Stillings, 1973; Scrimshaw and Young, 1976).

The myth reached epic heights in the 1960s. A UN report was published which identified worldwide protein deficiency. It called for a ‘global strategy to avert the impending protein crisis’. International aid began to focus on projects to address the so-called protein gap. The US government, for example, subsidised the production of dried milk powder to provide high-quality protein for the world’s poor (Campbell and Campbell, 2005).

But not everyone accepted that protein was the most important nutrient of all. Wartime studies in the UK by Widdowson and McCance found that orphanage children grew faster than the general population when they ate a bread-based diet, with only a small fraction (14 per cent) of their protein coming from milk products. And the orphanage children grew no faster when nearly half of their protein was from milk! Bread provided the children with plenty of energy to support their growth, whilst meeting more than double their protein needs (Millward, 2004).

Insufficient protein in a plant based diet is a myth. But it's a belief that's widely held and despite scientific evidence its something that people just 'feel' to be true.
I consider it as successful marketing from the meat and dairy industry.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:04 AM #27
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Default There is one thing that vegans and vegetarians do need to supplement with--

--and that is vitamin B12, which is essential and which the human body cannot break out of non-animal sources, unlike some of our animal cousins. We simply do not have the proper stomach or intestinal length to do that.

So, while I agree that human beings are often encouraged to consume too much protein in general and too many animal products in particular, anyone who is not having any animal products in the diet--and that includes dairy products and eggs--needs to supplement with B12, preferably a methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin form, in case one has genetic problems with the methylation cascade: there are fewer metabolic hoops for the cobalamin to jump through when taken in these forms as opposed to the standard cyanocobalamin form usually sold (and you don't want cyanide radicals running around your body anyway).

B12 deficiency is common even among carnivores as they get older--our levels of intrinsic factor noticeably decline with age--and vegans and vegetarians really do need to supplement from the get-go.
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Old 01-23-2021, 03:35 AM #28
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Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--and that is vitamin B12, which is essential and which the human body cannot break out of non-animal sources, unlike some of our animal cousins. We simply do not have the proper stomach or intestinal length to do that.

So, while I agree that human beings are often encouraged to consume too much protein in general and too many animal products in particular, anyone who is not having any animal products in the diet--and that includes dairy products and eggs--needs to supplement with B12, preferably a methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin form, in case one has genetic problems with the methylation cascade: there are fewer metabolic hoops for the cobalamin to jump through when taken in these forms as opposed to the standard cyanocobalamin form usually sold (and you don't want cyanide radicals running around your body anyway).

B12 deficiency is common even among carnivores as they get older--our levels of intrinsic factor noticeably decline with age--and vegans and vegetarians really do need to supplement from the get-go.
Thanks for your input. Your knowledge is extraordinary. I thought I'd discussed B12 earlier in the thread, maybe it was elsewhere, so thank you.
B12 supplementation as far as I am aware should be at the heart of all self therapy for Peripheral Neuropathy whatever diet you are on. However as you point out there are few Plant Based sources of B12 (due to decreasing soil quality.) We cannot make B12. Meats and milks of herbivorous ruminant animals are good sources of B12 for humans. Ruminants acquire their B12 through a symbiotic relationship with bacteria inside their microbiomes. B12-producing bacteria are located in ruminant stomachs.

These are common Plant Based sources of B12 that I am aware of and my experience of them.

Nutritional Yeast.
Algae/seaweed.
Fortified Plant Milk (soy, almond, coconut, rice)
Fortified breakfast cereals.
Tempeh.
Mushrooms.

I sprinkle Nutritional Yeast on my food that is fortified with B12. I sprinkle Mara Seaweed and also Green Nori ( sea vegetable condiments) Unusually for Vegan Food all of these taste nice! The latter are also rich in Iodine, an element Vegans can be low in. I don't touch plant milks or breakfast cereals but I do add Spirulina to my porridge. I take Algae Oil Vegan Omega 3 DHA and EPA because a Plant Based diet can be low in Omega 3. My experience with Tempeh is tiny. I eat mushrooms regularly. I consider them superfoods.

This video covers B12 and a Plant Based Diet.

I personally take 1000ug of methyl cobalamin daily

What foods contain vitamin B12? | NutritionFacts.org
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Old 01-23-2021, 06:00 PM #29
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Just hearing a favorite MD on my radio and a woman called in about the severe P.N. and he asked her all the questions, did you do nerve systems etc and she said yes, and doc had given her gabapentin which she didn't like and got off it and then he gave her cymbalta and said "this is an anti depressant and got off it.

My doc said "get off most of the carbs/sugars and that will start with the changes needed.

The woman was clueless as she didn't hear any of this info from her MD. When asked what A1C number is she said 5.9, the doc said too high.

You people know all this but good repeating.
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:41 PM #30
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Just thought I'd chime in a little on my experience with a 7 1/2 year battle with idiopathic full body neuropathy. While I still don't know the exact underlying cause, I do know that with 100% certainty what goes in my mouth directly affects the severity of my symptoms.

I think there's little doubt at this point that my body is producing histamine in response to whatever it is I eat that it finds offensive now, and isolating the "whatever it is" has been a great challenge, but I've dramatically improved my symptoms avoiding the things I know are involved now.

I've had a full allergy work-up, and the only thing of interest that showed up was a high histamine level in my blood. I don't have any food allergies that resulted in an IgE response.

The fact that my problem is food-related is also why my symptoms worsened during the day, and I always felt best in the morning (and when I fasted).

While I'm still symptomatic, I'm at least relieved that I have some control over the severity of my symptoms.

janie
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