NeuroTalk Support Groups - Need some opinions guys.

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Mrs D, Thank you for that link

I do not think you have sent that link to me before, I beleive you sent me one on Dothep. It seems that it could also be my Betblocker causing insomnia too.

I don't know where you find all these links,but I'm glad you do!!

Thank you,
Aussie

you are welcome...Aussie...

I may have not sent side effects per se to you, but I recall you having
escape issues...as your beta blocker wore off. I think you have raised the
doses since I saw that last post. ?

Anyway there are also papers suggesting that beta blockers do interfere
with normal melatonin actions in the body:

Quote:

Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1999 Apr;55(2):111-5. Related Articles, Links

Influence of beta-blockers on melatonin release.

Stoschitzky K, Sakotnik A, Lercher P, Zweiker R, Maier R, Liebmann P, Lindner W.

Department of Medicine, Karl Franzens University, Graz, Austria.

OBJECTIVE: Melatonin is a mediator in the establishment of the circadian rhythm of biological processes. It is produced in the pineal gland mainly during the night by stimulation of adrenergic beta1- and alpha1-receptors. Sleep disturbances are common side-effects of beta-blockers. The influence of specific beta-blockade as well as that of combined alpha-and beta-blockade on melatonin production has not been investigated in humans before. METHODS: We performed a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study in 15 healthy volunteers. Subjects received single oral doses of 40 mg (R)-propranolol, 40 mg (S)-propranolol, 50 mg (R)-atenolol, 50 mg (S)-atenolol, 25 mg (R,S)-carvedilol, 120 mg (R,S)-verapamil or placebo at 1800 hours. Urine was collected between 2200 hours and 0600 hours, and 6-sulfatoxy-melatonin (aMT6s), the main metabolite of melatonin which is almost completely eliminated in urine, was determined by radioimmunoassay (RIA). RESULTS: Mean nocturnal excretion of aMT6s in urine after intake of the drugs was as follows (in microg): placebo 26; (R)-propranolol 24 (-7%, NS); (S)-propranolol 5 (-80%, P < 0.001); (R)-atenolol 27 (+7%, NS); (S)-atenolol 4 (-86%, P < 0.01); (R,S)-carvedilol 23 (-10%, NS); (R,S)-verapamil 29 (+14%, NS). These data show that only the specifically beta-blocking (S)-enantiomers of propranolol and atenolol decrease the nocturnal production of melatonin whereas the non-beta-blocking (R)-enantiomers have no effect. Unexpectedly, (R,S)-carvedilol which inhibits both alpha- and beta-adrenoceptors does not decrease melatonin production. CONCLUSION: These findings indicate that beta-blockers decrease melatonin release via specific inhibition of adrenergic beta1-receptors. Since lower nocturnal melatonin levels might be the reason for sleep disturbances, further clinical studies should investigate whether or not oral administration of melatonin might avoid this well-known side-effect of beta-blockers. The reason why (R,S)-carvedilol does not influence melatonin production remains to be determined.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 10335905 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So melatonin may be an avenue for you to explore.
And this:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...latonincs.html

Quote:

Use of beta-blockers (another class of high blood pressure medications including propranolol, acebutolol, atenolol, labetolol, metoprolol, pindolol, nadolol, sotalol, and timolol) may reduce melatonin production in the body.

Large doses of melatonin are no longer recommended. New studies have shown that 0.3mg one hour before bedtime, works best. Keeping it under 1mg at least is suggested. Melatonin is not a drug...it takes a few days of use
to realign your system. So don't expect a dramatic effect in the beginning.

I'd discuss this with your doctor, before moving on to strong RX meds which
do have habit forming characteristics.

Take care!

My GP did raise the doses. He said that the Tryciclic was keeping a lid on everything, meaning my anxiety. When I stopped it, everything went out of control, anxiety/panic, BP, and so on. So he raised my BetaBlocker to 100 mg x twice daily

Too be honest, I know I still have PN, but very very mildly. Now I suffer from all this new stuff like insomnia,anxiety,BP. This is much worse. Maybe I'll need to start my own "New Board". I can call it, "Sleepless People gone Mad from PN.":D :D LOL!! Just joking about the board!!

Thank you for your help,
Aussie

I don't know but I tend to disagree with your chemist. If the tricyclic was helping for sleep, and your sleep is problematic, it's not a withdrawal syndrome you are having, but a return of your original symptom. Why stop something that is working? It's hard enough to find something that helps, why put yourself through searching for an alternative?

I take amitryptiline in super low dose for sleep, 20 mg. I got the idea last night that since I was awakening with restless leg/periodic leg movement/myoclonus symptoms, maybe jsut upping the amitryptiling would deepen my sleep enough to get me through. My doc had phoned in a prescription for mirapex, but I didn't have it yet. So, I did this on my own, took 50 mg of the tricyclic, still a very small dose. And I only awakened once.

So now I'm gonig to tell my neuro, and ask him if he minds my just taking the higher dose, rather than trying something new. There's something reassuring about an old safe medicatioin that is helping.

I googled myoclonus and oxycontin. It is very very common. I had thought it was only common in withdrawal, but turns out it's common, period.

So what have you decided to do about the sleep issue?

OMIGOD, it's 1am. I need to go to SLEEP!

Well 3 days ago I bought this homeopathic remedy.

To help with sleep and it has Melatonin. It's not the greatest, but it helps a bit. I went to GP yesterday and he gave me a script for Stilnox. It is a proper sleeping tablet like Ambien. I need to fill it today,and I will try it over the weekend and see how I go.

I didn't realise the importance of sleep until I started getting ill from the lack of it.