is low intensity and usually rhythmic. It may build to high intensity, but it usually starts out at a low intensity that slowly builds as our brain adapts and adjusts. We may learn to enjoy painful experiences, and find them pleasurable. Examples are chili pepper, straight spirits, or loud music, but those "pleasures" have to be learned.

The signals from our PN injured nerves and nerve endings are intense and arhythmic, so of course the brain interprets them as pain and burning.

How could I have forgotten chocolate, which I dearly love? My wife and I both have one or two pieces of quality chocolate daily. Our favorite ice cream and cake flavor is chocolate, the more chocolaty the better.

I use to wish for stupid stuff like the lotto but now I truly wish for a pain free and healthy life.

Wing when you said this
"The signals from our PN injured nerves and nerve endings are intense and arhythmic, so of course the brain interprets them as pain and burning"
Is that why they put us on meds like neurontin that changes those brain interpretations? Unfortunatly my brain still picks up all thos pain signals or even with depression it does not change the mindset.

Exactly. The situation is a little more complicated than I described. Actually, the areas of the brain stimulated by constant chaotic signals become irritated and hypersensitive. With constant 24/7 stimulation, what would have originally been itching turns into pain, burning, and moments of intense shocking pain, even though the stimulation from the feet aren't that intense. Neurontin is an anticonvulsant which works by generally damping brain activity at the synapses. That's how it reduces activity in the specific hypersensitive brain areas, by reducing brain activity all over. That's also why it makes you tired. Your attentive skills can compensate for this to a degree, so that you can learn to function at work, drive, etc.

As I've posted elsewhere, neurontin and other drugs have many drawbacks. PN is a long lasting chronic condition for most of us. Even if it gets better, as mine has, the healing process and brain relearning takes many years. Do you really want to take large doses of psychoactive drugs for years and years? All drugs are toxic to some degree, and interfere with normal bodily healing processes. So, while neurontin and other similar drugs partially address the pain of PN, pain-reducing doses of neurontin actually hurts long-term nerve healing. That's my idea, not confirmed by research because most neurologists still believe that PN is invariably progressive, so little research is being done on healing from PN.

I posted a complete program for PN healing a few years ago. It needs updating, but you might find the broad outlines helpful. The link is: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread177-2.html , listings #18, 19, and 20 at the bottom of the page.

Thanks. You know when I look at people here who are on meds like neurontin for ex they are not just on that but on other heavier drugs. So I truly wonder how effective alone meds like neurontin are. I guess for myself I saw no help from many of these I tried. I truly never thought though long term drugs like neurontin were harmful. I am not on any now though. I would think too the healing research of pn is hard because it comes out in varing forms for all of us.

David, I have always appreciated your holistic approach. Because of my former profession, I was well aquainted with Yoga, meditation, tens, and many other things. I tried them all, as well as supplements, dietary changes, exercise, etc. Unfortuanately, my pain level remained at a life threatening level - that is, it remained so severe that I contemplated suicide regualrly. I do take Lyrica now, as well as use a fentanly patch. I hate using these drugs, but am grateful for them, as they are preferable to death. Remember, not everyone has the same pain level, the same responses to alternative measures or medicine, etc. It is great to share all of our ideas, but we must remain vigilant not to come across as judgmental. We all walk our own road.

I'm sorry you are in such a situation and hope that in some way I and others in this forum can help you deal with your suffering.

I'm not judgmental. I'm pragmatic. Really. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and using drugs to control breakthrough pain is totally OK by me. When a cervical disk rupture (caused by yoga) caused severe cramping in my left shoulder muscles, and excruciating chronic pain, I rapidly progressed up to oral Fentanyl (synthetic heroine) and lidocaine patches that covered my shoulder blade at night. That was the only way I could get any sleep, and that was in a chair because even Fentanyl and lidocaine didn't control the pain when I was prone. I was thankful for the drugs, for the my primary care physician who prescribed them, for my physical therapists and my body's natural healing ability. Opiates badly constipate me. I think I'd die of some colon disorder if I had to take opiates all day for any period of time. One weird thing is that if I took just enough to move the pain level from a 9 or 10 to 3 or 4, the drugs didn't make me high at all. I could even do crossword puzzles after taking them.

If you need to take drugs to control extreme pain, of course, that's what you need to do. Pain controlling drugs, however, are only effective for a time. As required dosage increases and time goes on, side effects increase and eventually become life threatening. That's not judgmental, its practical reality. So, while you take the drugs you need to take for pain, I hope you continue to look for non-drug alternatives to control the pain and eventually reduce the pain to a degree where you can live drug free or usually drug free.

Have you looked at the American Chronic Pain Association ( http://www.theacpa.org/ ) or The American Pain Association ( http://painassociation.org/publicandpatients.htm )? I really like the ACPA page, "Ten Steps from Patient to Person" ( http://www.theacpa.org/people/ten_steps.asp ). Also, the Weekly Medical News Newsletter ( http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ ) often has useful articles on pain and neuropathy.

What I'm saying is, don't give up or give in to despair or cynicism, for that puts one on a slippery slope its hard to climb back up from. People who overcome chronic "incurable" conditions share certain characteristics according to Dr. Andrew Weil in "Spontaneous Healing": 1) they never give up looking for a cure, 2) they to keep trying different things that make sense to them, 3) they never accept discouragement or a negative prognosis from medical personnel or family or friends, 4) they look for and accept help from others. This is from memory from years ago, so please forgive any errors. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Spontaneous-He...5128782&sr=1-1 .

Also, I know I can come on a bit preachy and "superior", but I don't feel that way either. It's not ego or insecurity on my part. There's a practical rationale to my exhaustive discourses. I was a teacher of learning handicapped children for many years. One principle of education is called zero based teaching, where you present all the material necessary to master a topic and review it all over and over, even though the student may know some or even most or all of the material presented. By presenting as if the student knows none of the information, the teacher is sure not to leave out any essential information the student needs and to clarify any misconceptions the student may have. That habit is so ingrained after 15 full time years of teaching that I can't not do that when discussing a topic. So please forgive me if this is the case. The last thing I want is to irritate instead of helping.

Take care and feel better.

I have a few thoughts on this concept.

1) Pleasure is experienced centrally thru the dopamine reward system.
Basically for survival, pain is an aversive stimulus...to urge us to move on or stop the activity causing it. We would not live long if pain stimulated pleasure or dopamine release. (this is for the majority)

2) however, there are people who have brains that are wired differently.
Extreme examples are psychopaths...who are pretty numb and get injured and don't mind. These types make good soldiers. The word psychopath has changed in meaning, not all psychopaths are criminals...they just don't respond to remorse or conscience and they can tolerate alot of pain, and don't mind dispensing it too.

3) less dramatic than psychopaths are the low arousal people, who can tolerate more stimulus than others. These people love strange activities like S & M, and dangerous sports, and don't mind getting banged up. They have somehow learned to overstimulate themselves for a dopamine hit. It is believed that these types have lower endogenous daily dopamine and hence have to create it with extreme behaviors. When you see people with impulse control problems, who get "off" on bullying others, who need recreational drugs to feel "better", who drive excessively fast all the time, etc ...these are increasing dopamine in the brain with those behaviors. Reinforcing them, to create a style which they cannot easily break out of themselves, without help.

There are two types of temperature neurons in our hands/feet. The cold ones supercede the heat ones in the spinal tract. That is why menthol rubs cool us and block burning signals. Menthol stimulates cold receptors, and that temporarily blocks the heat sensing ones that seem to be the first to "go" with PN. Menthol does not create cold...just stimulates those nerves specifically.

My son is a decorated soldier. He was wounded in Iraq. He risked his life to save civilians, including contesting orders to shoot, when, his commander was in error, and dozens of innocent lives could have been lost if not for his courage and wisdom. He is not numb, but a caring wonderful person, who held in his arms, a dying ten year old shot in the head, in a fire fight. A kid he bought shoes and ice cream for. Sounds like a psychopath to me, right? He has more to complain about as far as pain goes than this whole forum has put together and multiplied by 10.

HE IS NOT A PYSCHOPATH.

He joined the National Guard to go to college, and got stuck in some war in some God forsaken hole, and he made the best of it, has come home and made a life for himself, with his disabilities.

Psychopaths are exactly what makes a poor soldier, it is what makes a war criminal.

My other child did the Olympic Trials. She is not into S and M. She works hard, has an advanced degree. Some people dare to do what others can bearly dream to do. And it is not because they are into sadism or masochism, nor because they 'hurt' less than others who attempt the same.

I have often heard people tell my daughters, 'It doesn't hurt you as much as it hurts me to do that." Sorry folks, it does hurt, just as much.

There is no cure for PN, yet. There are cures and treatments for the diseases in some cases, that cause PN.

To those who have found that they can manage their disease, perhaps, they have a different disease than those who yet struggle with their symptoms.

PN is a symptom of a greater illness of the body.

Yes, by all means, try to manage your disease with what ever it is that works for you, but allow others, to manage their symptoms, with what works for them.

Pain is personal.

Each and every one of us, has our own disease.

And, If Dr. Weil had the cure for neuropathy, he would be richer, still. He has made a good living selling his philosophies on disease management, and in general, I agree with him, but, not all humans are blessed with the ability to live their lives in peace, harmony and wealth.

"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err."

Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948)

I understand that some personal feelings might be felt due to the discussion. However, let's please keep the thread on-topic to the OP, please.

If there are some personal upsets felt, please place them in PM per the guidelines.

In reading, I see that broad statements were made and not with the intent to cause upset, flame any particular individual or set of individuals.

Let's please allow the thread to stay on-topic, with personal disagreements taking it off-topic placed in PM for hopefully a good resolve.

I appreciate everyone here.

KD

Mrsd didn't say soldiers are psychopaths. She said that some psychopaths make good soldiers. I don't think that can be denied for the right mission. I'm confident your son is all you say he is, and I appreciate his service for us. Part of his job was to keep the psychopaths in his unit under control so they help instead of hindering his unit's mission. That's precisely why military discipline is so important, especially in battle conditions. I hope your son heals soon so he can go on with the rest of his life. We owe him and other like him big time.

Dr. Weil writes about how to live a powerful and health promoting life instead of living as a helpless victim of circumstance. He never offers a cure for anything.

None of us are "blessed with the ability to live...(our) lives in peace, harmony and wealth." That takes a lifetime of consistent effort. Of course, a serious injury or chance exposure to a debilitating disease can make all those efforts moot. Even then, I think there's a lot of value in the current American folk wisdom, "It is what it is. Deal with it."

Gandhi's quote is right on. Chaos is one characteristic of the universe we live in, and luck and chance plays a big part of our lives. My mom used to say, "Don't act too smart, you never know what's going to happen."