[mrxtramean]

Hi all,

So many different forum topics....I could post topics in Chronic Pain, spine problems, Herniated disk and NP. Since my 2002 full, central HNP I've had chronic pain that's been getting worse in the last 3 years. In Sept. 2007, I started to have new problems. I spend about 1-4 hours a day, it seems like, trying to find answers. Here's a list of all the things I've had going on with me, maybe someone can relate.

Sept. 2007 - A worsening of LBP left side. Sleep disrupted. Lower left leg and foot become numb-tingly(intermittently), but no pain in this area.

Oct 2007 - Numb/tingles continue lower left leg (intermittently). I call it deep Groin pain, but it's more sacroiliac joint( left off center), end of Oct. dule pain (burning) in both ankles (very painful), had 2 instances (at different times) of right hand instantly getting tingles without pain, 1 instance of sharp pain just above left knee cap (distal).

Nov 2007 - Lower left leg numb/tingles ((intermittently), groin pain continues, Ankle pain shifts to soles of both feet (mainly heels and balls/toes), "burning" pain increases with standing and sitting, walking becomes painful, 1 instance on instant numb/tingle in right hand (no pain), 1 instance of left ring finger getting numb/tingles, 2 instances of sharp pain above right knee cap (distal, each a week apart), left hamstrings felt a little like they wanted to cramp up, but didn't.

Dec 2007 - "Groin pain felt on left and right side off center, LBP shifts from left to right side off center, sharp pain in upper right hamstring-lower gluteus maximus (intermittently-mostly after getting up from sitting), hurts in buttocks (burn/throbs) when sitting and this increases the pain on my feet soles.

Jan 2008 - LOA, 1st wk laying down,2nd wk PT (physical therapy) 3x wk (60-90mins) doing McKenzie extension's and few other minor exercises. PT says NO FLEXION bends, pain in LBP decreasing, tingles in lower, left leg decreasing, pain in upper right hamsting still present but fading, burning feet-soles still present.

Feb 2008 - Still on LOA, overall feeling better, been walking 1-2 hours (feet hurt, but not as bad if I keep moving), doing some light lifting (ok) but standing still still causes pain under feet, LBP still present but not as bad .

I drive a stand up forklift at work, so I've been trying to simulate my standing at home while I watch TV to see how long I can stand it.....I'm going back to work for the first time since Jan 1, 2008, part-time to see how things go.

I've seen a neurosurgeon, neurologist, my Primary, my chiropractor and a physical therapist. The neuro's and my primary all did/do the same test which results in "no nerve problems". My chiropractor "thinks" I might have central spinal canal stenosis for my central disc protrusion, but my new MRI doesn't reveal any type of stenosis. My physical therapist says I might have neurogenic claudification. I looked it up and it doesn't sound like my symptoms.

From what I've read and from my own self diagnosis, I'd say I have a form of Sacroiliitis/lumbar spinal stenosis. But again, the MRI doesn't show it.

About a year ago, I started to notice a funny internal sound when I did a pelvic tilt. Sounds like and feels like, but the doctors say "no", like Spondylolysis and/or Spondylolisthesis, like my vertebra's shift a little.

For anyone that might have something simular, I will try and keep an update. The only medication I have ever been prescribed is Naproxen 500mg, 2x day back in 2002. I also had a full physical done in Dec. 2008 and nothing spiked. I'm also taking a Vit B-Complex and I think I'll start taking a Vit b-12 too.

I feel for so many of you that are going through NP. At least, with me, my symptoms of NP don't effect me while I sleep. That would drive me crazy cause I know what disrupted sleep (chronic LBP) can make you feel like (crap). Good luck to all...

[Brian]

Hi, did the neuro get Quanitive Sensory Testing done or a Skin punch biopsy to check your small fiber nerves ? burning is typical of small nerve damage, if [i am guessing] they only done a nerve conduction test, it won't show any small fibre damage only the speed transmissions of larger nerve impulses.

Brian

[Silverlady]

I'm wondering if your job and perhaps even the pelvic tilts have caused some wear and tear that is irritating the nerves in the area. Have they done bloodwork for inflammatory conditions like Rheumatoid Arthritis? This includes Sed Rate, ANA and RA factor?

Billye

[shiney sue]

I' Sue,,

Welcome,I must say I very much agree with Billye,
I know you feel like you have been through the
mill already..

Welcome to NeuroTalk, pain is awfull and there is
not always a easy answer..I wish you luck. Sue

[mrxtramean]

Thanks much for the welcome...

I've done a fair share of reading, but still a newbie to terms and procedure's that I should be doing. In my last doctor visit, I got a little upset with him because he think's it's muscles and tendens and he hasn't even mentioned that I might have NP. When I saw him in Nov. with numb/pain/burning feet he did nothing, the dork. But I'm the dork for not forceing issue's and treatments. I'm learning. I should have ask for an MRI then at the height of my pain. My bad...but it probably wouldn't have shown anything.??

All three doctors did the needle poke around the legs, feet and did some of the AMA test, leg lifts and strength. I had no sciatic reactions and I could feel all the pokeing.

This was a work related injury. I saw 2 IME's, a psychiatrist (for depression) and a neurosurgeon. The Neuro was so sloppy and he didn't write nothing down, his test were poorly done and the psych doctor left me in a room to do a test (took over 2 hours). He left after 40 mins and told me to turn the lights off and lock the door when I leave. I was there about 3 hours.<----they suck.

The insurer denied my aggravation claim for both claims. I'll be looking into an attorney. I'm too proud to let this go....denial makes me look like I'm lying.
So I'm dealing with this too....

I'm going back to work 2/25 for about 4-5 hours a day to see how things go. I will be seeing my doctor again in about 2 weeks. I'm looking for a "specialist". Any recommenations of medical field?

[LizaJane]

If it's true that no nerve damage is showing up on your left side, where you have the radicular pain, then something is irritating that nerve (sounds like L5-S1, having been there myself), there are still a few things to do.

First, you could find a pain guy who needles. Even with a normal MRI, if you're having such specific pain, I'm pretty sure a pain guy would want to give you a transforaminal epidural. First, they shoot a bit of saline on the nerve, and if it gives you the same pain you're complaining of, they've got it. Then the epidural calms the inflamed nerve down.

That's just about the left leg.

Another approach to the left would be a different form of physical therapy. I found feldenkrais to be amazing. It's a mind/body integration thing, and the therapist essentially moves your muscles in patterns that are efficient for use, but pain-free, and re-patterns the way the brain moves you, so you avoid pain. I've been sustained by feldenkrais for over a year now. Given my MRI, I should be in agony and I'm not.

In terms of the burning feet---I'm not at all sure this means you have PN. While it is a symptom, typically we get other sensations with the burning---numbness, tingling, electric pain, wormy feelings. You just have burning. That could be mechanical from you back.

Sometimes I get into problems with my feet. My feldenkrais worker watches me walk down the hallway and has me report my sensations, so I grow more aware. Invariably, when my feet are bothering me, it's because I'm landing hard on them, and my center of gravity is not gliding over them smoothly. That's not something I can fix on my own, although I can approach that. It is something she can fix, however, by doing things like moving my feet, and then hips and more, in the movements they need to make to have my center of gravity glide over my feet, not land like a thump.

You might google it. I know it sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but it's not.

I understand it's a real problem being a worker's compensation case. Worker's comp pays doctors less than insurance does, so you get them putting in less time, and also being a bit cynical. Is there a way to drop the compensation claim and use your regular insurer? That might get you better doctors.

I think your problems sound mechanical and anatomical, with irritated inflamed nerves, and skewed posture and movement from years of back trouble. That's just my guess.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

[mrxtramean]

I've seen my chiropractor about 4 times in the last 5 weeks. I'll be seeing him next week to look at x-rays. He says I "do" have one leg longer than the other. It's a start. I had x-rays in 2002...pelvis level fine. So we'll see...


As far as the walking goes, my physical therapist has watched me walk, he also works with orthotics.

A needle guy. ? I have a name of a supposedly good Anesthesiologists if I need someone to poke around the spinal.

As far as feldenkrais, for being self-aware. I've been keeping a medical diary. I log every little thing that might help me pin point an answer.

As far as NP goes....still not sure. It's been tossed around at me. Since I was having so many wierd things pop, it was a like thought. This week I 've had electric shock in my right tricep after doing a simple stretch. About a month+ ago I started to have a pain like soreness in my mid-back around what I would guess the T1-T3....between the shoulder blade and spine. I've mentioned this to both PT(said no joint out) and Chiro(did adjustments). This weekend I had a scary sudden pain come on while just sitting doing nothing. It's on the opposite side of the other mid-back pain in the exact same spot across from each other. The way the pain came, I thought something was going to explode inside. I grabbed my phone and went to my oldest son just in case....it was wierdess thing. Even today, it hurts a little to bring my chin to chest. Sunday I couldn't do my "Angey Cat Stretch" exercise.

Nothing seems to point to just one spot!!! Sucks. Although, what's been consistent has been the feet pain on the soles and the LBP is there.

And to answer your question on their insurance vs mine.... If I want to have any hope of being protected correctly by law, I have to abide by the rules. And in a hearing with attorneys, everything matters and counts either for you or against you. The IME's get over paid for their "unbaised" bs. Why should they ever turn on the hand that feeds them? And if my doctor was treating me less than any other patient because of money, I think he'd or any doctor would have sued.... My doctor is a fence sitter....and that's why I might be looking for a private practice doctor who isn't part of the assembly line patient in-out, your 15 mins is up thing...


We each know our bodies better than any doctors. I "know" without doubt that my LBP/L5-S1 HNP is the root of all my problems. I do believe that my spine has gone through some pathology changes and that's what I now have to prove to a judge. I know. We all know. But they just don't get it.

Thanks for your reply. I have so many websites bookmarked, it's a joke. I still need a good specialist. I'm looking for one this week.

[mrxtramean]

Quick update:
X-Ray of Lumbosacral spine: AP and lateral
Report:
There are mild degenerative changes at L4-5. Advanced degenerative changes are noted at L5-S1. Retrolisthesis of approximately 4 mm is noted at L5. There is no fractures.

In 2002, the report was at L5-S1, there was moderate loss of disc height (it was totally extruded from between the vertebra) with degenerative signal loss associated with a very large disc herniation....


I ask my Chiropractor is it was normal to go from 0 to mild DDD to Advanced DDD in 5 years, he said it's not normal. So what caused the rapid changes?

In all the studies I've read, it's always DDD that's the cause of disc herniations (unless strong trauma involved). If the herniated disc was from a lifting accident and then you have in 5 years advanced DDD and retrolisthesis (4mm on film, but I think it's more, esp. if my pelvic tilts. I mentioned to all my doctors that it feels like my vertebra shift. They said, oh no, the ligament between the vertebra is thick. You're probably "hearing" a suction. )

My Chiropractor said no doctor would say that my present condition (LBP, retrolisthesis, burning feet, and other stuff) was from my 2002 hernaited disc injury as long as they see DDD, everyone will blame DDD for current problems.

And with that type of thinking is how my worker's comp aggravation is denied. I don't know how to prove it otherwise, but I know the 2002 HNP is the cause of present problems.

[mrxtramean]

My doctor refused to give me test: Quantitative sensory and/or skin punch biopsy.


I had a long reply typed out, but I got signed out...su cks. oh well.