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Old 04-17-2008, 01:43 PM #1
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If i can make a suggestion maybe this thread should be put into the stickies area and added to by people as they progress and get better.
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:56 PM #2
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJoe View Post
If i can make a suggestion maybe this thread should be put into the stickies area and added to by people as they progress and get better.
good idea... just PM a moderator!
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:57 PM #3
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MrsD, you are correct about we "newbies". I'm incredulous at all the information. I discovered this site only a few days ago and I've such mixed emotions. Mostly upset with myself that I've just sat back for 19 years and done nothing about my neuropathy. No one ever took it, the disease, seriously. I had a young son to care for, so I just kept putting one foot in front of the other.....when I should have also been researching. Back in the late 80's we did try, but there was so little information available....but that's no excuse. It wasn't until I couldn't be intubated that it was taken seriously.....and I've no one to blame but me. I'm going to set aside time everyday to read the PN threads.....I'm going to learn......and take charge of my care!
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:48 PM #4
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Default This

is good to hear but don't be so hard on yourself Lucky,you son is lucky
what you were going through you stilll went to his events,you both
should be happy that now you are going to take charge of your health.
Good wishes to you and your family,and i'm so glad you back,I like your
spirit yes you have it. And good luck on your new move, Hugs to all Sue
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:42 PM #5
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Default Stickies

Joe--I had the same thought as you; now you've beat me to it! This thread ought to be a sticky, to which only success stories can be added. People need to be able to read about the successes when they come on as newbies and read about all the tests and protocols. It's overwhelming at first, and good news would help.

As to my own supplement regimen-it's taken from stickies, Mrs D's and Wing's recommendations, and my own thinking of anything that's good for mitochondria is good for axons.

Specifically for the PN
Fish Oil: 2- 3 Gm
Acetyl L Carnitine: I can't find a bottle just now with my dosage, but it's the top of the recommended amount, as my carnitine levels run below normal
CoQ10: 100mg twice a day. Now as Ubiquinol
Antioxidants: I take caps made to prevent macular degenereation: they are variously known as EyeCaps, Visivites, of Preservision. They contain Vitamin c, Vitamin E, Zinc, Copper and Lutein.
Folic Acid and methylcobalamin a few times a week.
]SAMe-in spurts, not every week.

For general health and other issues:
Vit D3 800 IU/day
DHEA 50/day

I've had trouble with Calcium & Magnesium combinations and apart, nver finding the exact right combination for me, so right now just try to eat dairy. But I will start CalciumCitrate again soon. I know I need it.
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--- LYME neuropathy diagnosed in 2009; considered "idiopathic" neuropathy 1996 - 2009
---s/p laminectomy and fusion L3/4/5 Feb 2006 for a synovial spinal cyst
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:58 AM #6
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Default My supplements for PN are similar to Liza Jane.

In addition to what she takes, I also take two B-50 formula B-complex a day, and good quality calcium/magnesium daily.

I put a lot of stress on a very healthy diet, anger and stress management, and daily exercise. Having a very active young dog is a powerful motivation to get out twice a day walking, including a daily trip to a big off-leash dog park nearby. The picture is of Rusty on a trail near where we live. Double click the thumbnail to expand the picture.
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File Type: jpg Rusty in Tierra Santa.jpg (61.7 KB, 1614 views)
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:37 AM #7
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Lightbulb I am becoming more and more

interested in mitochondrial failure. A lot research being done today is
pointing in that direction.

1) nerve damage from HIV drug prevention is mito in nature. We've known this for a decade now.
2) the new autism research is pointing to mito failures induced by vaccines in babies.
3) We now know that statins damage mitochondria..and that is probably how they induce PN as a side effect.

If the autism research shows this is a direct link (which I think is very likely),
then ADULTS who get that dreaded flu vaccine every year are exposing themselves to this stressor. The genetics research will help with this, and it might be that certain people with certain combinations of genes are more prone to mitochondrial issues.

Dr. Bruce Ames who developed the Ames test for carcinogens that our FDA uses still, is researching aging. I used to have a paper of his, that I put up about his beliefs that mito damage can be minimized with nutrients. He actually makes a supplement called Juvenon.
If you Google that product there are many papers on that site to explain how this works. But because it is a commercial site, I won't
link to it (there are rules here about that). It is easy to find.
Here is one abstract of his work:
Quote:
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 959:133-166 (2002)
© 2002 New York Academy of Sciences

Delaying Brain Mitochondrial Decay and Aging with Mitochondrial Antioxidants and Metabolites

JIANKANG LIUa, HANI ATAMNAa, HIROHIKO KURATSUNEb AND BRUCE N. AMESa

aDivision of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA and Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, Oakland, California 94609, USA
bDepartment of Hematology and Oncology, Osaka University, Osaka 565-0871, Japan

Address for correspondence: Professor Bruce Ames, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, 5700 Martin Luther King Jr. Way, Oakland, CA 94609. Voice: 510-450-7625; fax: 510-597-7128.
bnames@uclink4.berkeley.edu
Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 959: 133-166 (2002).

Mitochondria decay with age due to the oxidation of lipids, proteins, RNA, and DNA. Some of this decay can be reversed in aged animals by feeding them the mitochondrial metabolites acetylcarnitine and lipoic acid. In this review, we summarize our recent studies on the effects of these mitochondrial metabolites and mitochondrial antioxidants ({alpha}-phenyl-N-t-butyl nitrone and N-t-butyl hydroxylamine) on the age-associated mitochondrial decay of the brain of old rats, neuronal cells, and human diploid fibroblast cells. In feeding studies in old rats, these mitochondrial metabolites and antioxidants improve the age-associated decline of ambulatory activity and memory, partially restore mitochondrial structure and function, inhibit the age-associated increase of oxidative damage to lipids, proteins, and nucleic acids, elevate the levels of antioxidants, and restore the activity and substrate binding affinity of a key mitochondrial enzyme, carnitine acetyltrasferase. These mitochondrial metabolites and antioxidants protect neuronal cells from neurotoxin- and oxidant-induced toxicity and oxidative damage; delay the normal senescence of human diploid fibroblast cells, and inhibit oxidant-induced acceleration of senescence. These results suggest a plausible mechanism: with age, increased oxidative damage to proteins and lipid membranes, particularly in mitochondria, causes a deformation of structure of enzymes, with a consequent decrease of enzyme activity as well as substrate binding affinity for their substrates; an increased level of substrate restores the velocity of the reaction and restores mitochondrial function, thus delaying mitochondrial decay and aging. This loss of activity due to coenzyme or substrate binding appears to be true for a number of other enzymes as well, including mitochondrial complex III and IV.

Key Words: acetyl-l-carnitine • aging • brain • N-t-butyl hydroxylamine • lipoic acid • memory • mitochondria • neurotoxicity • oxidative damage • {alpha}-phenyl-N-t-butyl nitrone
from http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/conten...ract/959/1/133

He also has a paper out there on B-complex. I can't find it now, PubMed is down for maintenance. But in essence he believes that failures in B-complex metabolism account for many diseases we develop with aging. We do know now the folate system is very fragile and prone to failure (MTFHR) and must be helped along.

The nervous system gives us signals early on that something is not working right in our bodies. But when other organs fail (liver, kidney etc) there is a long lag before we get symptoms. So I think the signals just may be mito failures for many people. This signaling by the nervous
is sort of a bells/alarm to pay attention!

Many papers are on PubMed:
Use these keywords:
Ames B + antioxidants
Ames B + mitochondria
Ames B

example:
Quote:
J Cell Mol Med. 2008 Mar 28 [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
Neuronal mitochondrial amelioration by feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid to aged rats.
Aliev G, Liu J, Shenk JC, Fischbach K, Pacheco GJ, Chen SG, Obrenovich ME, Ward WF, Richardson AG, Smith MA, Gasimov E, Perry G, Ames BN.

Department of Biology, College of Sciences, San Antonio, TX 78249, USA.

Brain function declines with age and is associated with diminishing mitochondrial integrity. The neuronal mitochondrial ultrastructural changes of young (4 mo) and old (21 mo) F344 rats supplemented with two mitochondrial metabolites, acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR, 0.2% [wt/vol] in the drinking water) and R-alpha-lipoic acid (LA, 0.1% (wt/wt) in the chow), were analyzed using qualitative and quantitative electron microscopy techniques. Two independent morphologists blinded to sample identity examined and scored all electron micrographs. Mitochondria were examined in each micrograph, and each structure was scored according to the degree of injury. Controls displayed an age-associated significant decrease in the number of intact mitochondria (p = 0.026) as well as increase in mitochondria with broken cristae (p < 0.001) in the hippocampus as demonstrated by electron microscopic observations. Neuronal mitochondrial damage was associated with damage in vessel wall cells, especially vascular endothelial cells. Dietary supplementation of young and aged animals increased the proliferation of intact mitochondria and reduced the density of mitochondria associated with vacuoles and lipofuscin. Feeding old rats ALCAR and LA significantly reduced the number of severely damaged mitochondria (p = 0.02) and increased the number of intact mitochondria (p < 0.001) in the hippocampus. These results suggest that feeding ALCAR with LA may ameliorate age-associated mitochondrial ultrastructural decay, and are consistent with previous studies showing improved brain function.

PMID: 18373733 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
It is interesting to note that r-lipoic is showing up now in papers.
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These forums are for mutual support and information sharing only. The forums are not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.

Last edited by mrsD; 04-18-2008 at 07:03 AM.
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