[EddieF]

Was said to post Vit D here so here goes..
Today's MS support group meeting, one guy's taking 10,000 i.u./day = level 30
I take 2000i.u./day & my level's holding 90's. Everyone's different, you have to get tested & not go by dose. 8000iu's had me over 120.
I also told all to try 500mcg's B12 cause I heard many say they've been tired lately. The guy taking 10,000iu's of D is starting B12 shots next week.

[polygon]

Hello, just found this forum while researching.
I got my blood test results the other day.
My B12 levels were at 100.
Now that I'm researching, I'm very concerned about it. Started taking 2mg of B12 two days ago.
My doctor didn't recommend a brand of supplement, tell me how much to take, or suggest injections, nothing. My iron is also very low.
I'm experiencing pretty much every symptom associated with b12 deficiency, and have been for at least a year. Been vegetarian for 8 years, because of moral opinions and a health condition.

How long will it take to stop the symptoms? My parathesia in my legs is a little painful. I thought it was my multiple lipomas sitting on the nerve, but they aren't, so I assume it's a symptom. Kind of worried that my levels have been low for a long time, but is it possible that something like an infection could have lowered them a lot as well? I had pneumonia from june until the middle of july this year, and since then the chronic fatigue, tingling, spasms and twitches have all gotten much, much worse.

Thanks if you read this.

[mrsD]

I think you should be more aggressive and use 5mg orally daily on an empty stomach. Brands that people have used here that work include, Jarrow's and Puritan's Pride.

iherb.com
Puritans pride
Swanson's
Vitacost

All have a form of methylcobalamin and you can choose what you want. I'd stick with the active methyl type as it works better.

Expect this to take a few months, depending on how long you were low.
The iron questions should be directed to your doctor.
Dosing and how long to take it depends on how low you are.
Taking too much is problematic and too little won't help you much.

If you are anemic, expect to feel fatigued at first when you start the B12. In anemic patients, there may be a short time when your potassium gets low as new red blood cells are made.
Eating potassium rich foods can help during this time.

Originally Posted by polygon

Hello, just found this forum while researching.
I got my blood test results the other day.
My B12 levels were at 100.
Now that I'm researching, I'm very concerned about it. Started taking 2mg of B12 two days ago.
My doctor didn't recommend a brand of supplement, tell me how much to take, or suggest injections, nothing. My iron is also very low.
I'm experiencing pretty much every symptom associated with b12 deficiency, and have been for at least a year. Been vegetarian for 8 years, because of moral opinions and a health condition.

How long will it take to stop the symptoms? My parathesia in my legs is a little painful. I thought it was my multiple lipomas sitting on the nerve, but they aren't, so I assume it's a symptom. Kind of worried that my levels have been low for a long time, but is it possible that something like an infection could have lowered them a lot as well? I had pneumonia from june until the middle of july this year, and since then the chronic fatigue, tingling, spasms and twitches have all gotten much, much worse.

Thanks if you read this.

[zeeclass6]

A short update:

I'm finally getting a blood test on Monday the 17th (for B-12, B-6 and many other usual things for an annual exam), and haven't taken any of my vitamins (or fish oil) since Saturday. So it has been 6 days since I have taken my usual vitamins and supplements.

Before Saturday, I was really feeling great -- better than I have in a LONG time -- mainly, i think, because of the B-12 I have been taking since mid-August. (My B-12 level in mid-August was 398).

Now, 6 days after discontinuing my vitamins in preparation for the blood test, my depression is starting to come back. I feel it on a very organic level -- the way I perceive things, my ability to cope with stress, my general cognitive abilities -- are all taking a nosedive. I know that I can hang in there a few days until my test, but wow -- I didn't think that stopping my vitamins, especially the B-12 and high EPA fish oil, would impact me in such a specific way in such a short amount of time!

I find this very interesting. In addition to the blood tests, I will be doing a mail-in urine test for Pyroluria. Frankly I don't think that I have Pyroluria, but I strongly suspect that my 15-year-old daughter does. She will be doing the urine test in about two weeks. She has an anxiety disorder and when I read about Pyroluria, it seemed to describe what she was going through. Pyruloria is a condition where the body doesn't properly utilize B-6 or zinc. Interestingly, she tells me that if she doesn't take her B-complex vitamins, she doesn't feel as good. She will also get a blood test for B-12 and B-6. She had some other blood tests a few months ago and they were all normal (including the thyroid panel).

Anyway, I can't wait to get back the results of my B-12 test and see how my oral supplementation has improved my level, or not. Feeling foggy-headed and mentally dull sure isn't any fun.

By the way, do you guys know whether B-12 helps the body heal better or faster? I'm getting some oral surgery at the end of the month (gum grafting) and I wonder how the B vitamins affect the speed or efficiency of healing.

[mrsD]

We'll all be waiting for your results.

[zeeclass6]

I have a question about B-12 and meds for acid reflux.

I know that PPI drugs like Prilosec interfere with B-12 absorption. So do acid reducers, like Zantac. Since I've found this out, I try to avoid taking anything but some Tums from time to time.

Anyway, in this past week my acid reflux has suddenly gotten really bad, out of the blue. Tonight I just couldn't stand it anymore and I had to take a Zantac. It really helped. I have spent the last several days having horrible reflux, belching, a lot of gas, and a tender bloated belly.

At what point do acid reducers like Zantac interfere with B-12? If I take my B-12 in the morning, and then wind up taking a Zantac 4 or more hours later, is that OK?

I'm very concerned about screwing up the B-12 level I have worked so hard to build up in the past few months.

As to the reason for the reflux -- I'm really not sure. In the past, antibiotics have caused it, and after a while it died down. But lately I have noticed that my lactose intolerance has gotten worse and my reflux has returned. I haven't been on any antibiotics for the past year. I'm avoiding most dairy and taking a Lactaid pill with any meal or snack that has any dairy in it. Even yogurt gives me a problem (it didn't used to).It has been rough. I tried drinking Kefir a couple of weeks ago (and took a Lactaid pill just in case) and boy, that did NOT agree with me. Terrible gas, really disgusting. I have read that Kefir is a wonderful pro-biotic, but maybe it's just not for me. I have no interest in trying to ferment my own, BTW.

My recent blood test included Celiac. Sometimes I wonder if these symptoms aren't part of something else. I'm tempted to see a naturopath to try to straighten out my digestion. Last year I had a colonoscopy (welcome to age 50, LOL) and it was 100% normal. The weird thing about the reflux is that it seems to come and go. For months things are perfectly normal, then all of a sudden it just gets bad for a while.

I appreciate your advice on B-12 and acid reducers, or any other insight you can offer.

[mrsD]

This is the skinny on acid blockers:

1) they reduce acid in the stomach by either of two ways... by blocking the proton pump (Prilosec/Prevacid etc) or by blocking the H2 receptor (Zantac/Pepcid etc).

2) Intrinsic factor needs acid to work and bind B12 from food.
So constant use of these acid blockers, or a natural decline in acid (which happens when we age) called achlorhydria... decreases the intrinsic factor ability. The normal amount in food daily of B12 is about 2micrograms or so, and intrinsic factor is necessary for such small amounts.

3) Also acid blocking drugs impair your ability to digest protein.
The protein normally is broken up by acid in the stomach. When this fails, due to acid being not present, the protein moves on into the intestines and colon and FERMENTS...creating gas, bloating and diarrhea. Your dairy problem may be this, and not lactose intolerance.

You can still take B12 in a massive dose 5mg a day on an empty stomach. You do not need intrinsic factor for these high doses, since at 5mg some will be absorbed PASSIVELY in the small intestine. The presence of food, will block this type of absorption.

You can still take your B12, but if you continue with acid blocking drugs, and you will continue with gas, bloating and all the rest of the GI disturbances from undigested protein in your food.

As far as the Kefir goes, try a small bit daily in the beginning. 1-2 ounces and you may get the benefit of the probiotics and not have the gas from the dairy protein that is in it. Some people find the whole fat version better in this regard. My local Kroger's only carries the low fat types. As you build up the new probiotics in the bowel, the gas may improve slowly so you can consume more. I tend to have 4 ounces-6ounces once a day. I have it as a dessert after dinner, or as a snack around 11am if I get up early and have early breakfast. I was having massive gas, bloating and nausea this summer and fall, and within 3 days of Kefir it was all gone! A quart is lasting me around 5-6 days at the rate I am drinking it now. But it is up to you.

Acid blocking drugs really upset the body in serious ways. It may take some time to get your bowel back to normal.

[zeeclass6]

Mrs. D, thank you for all your knowledge!

I suppose if I take a Zantac once in a while, or only for a few straight days, it will be OK as long as I keep on top of taking the B-12 in the morning.

Approx. 5 years ago I was on a PPI drug for several months. My doctor never mentioned the B-12 thing to me. That might have been when my B-12 problem began. I understand it so much better now....I was on Augmentin for a bronchial and sinus infection, and afterward developed horrible reflux. Tested negative for H. Pylori. Went on Aciphex. Had an upper endoscopy, which was normal. Now looking back I understand that the antibiotic probably killed a bunch of of the good bacteria (despite me eating yogurt), and that is probably what caused the reflux in the first place. These days I refuse to take Augmentin unless it's absolutely necessary.

As a side note....I'd suffered with a lot of sinus infections and coughs. To make a long story short, years later I found out that I had a benign tumor in my sinuses! That was the cause of me getting so sick all the time (not allowing proper sinus drainage). Since the tumor was removed, I've been wonderfully normal....nowadays if I catch a cold, I recover in just a few days like a normal person and rarely develop a cough anymore!

I haven't seen full-fat kefir in any stores yet. Maybe my local health food store would have it. You reminded me that with lactose intolerance, lower fat dairy products make it worse. Which is why I don't have too much of a problem when I eat high fat premium ice cream!

I have been wondering whether my problem lately deals with milk protein versus lactose. The thing is, it seems that gastro doctors aren't well equipped to figure this out. If it can't be fixed with pharmceuticals or surgery, they seem to be clueless.

I'll seek out a higher fat kefir and try drinking it in smaller quantities. Everything I read about kefir says that it's very good for digestive problems and that it can actually cure lactose intolerance (or make it a lot better). Not really sure about the "curing" part, since the reason a person becomes intolerant is the lack of lactase enzyme. Maybe somehow the good bacteria restore that ability to produce the enzyme???

[mrsD]

I believe that the whole milk Kefir, is also lactose free (99%).
Their website at Lifeway gives lots of facts and I found it interesting.

My low fat type is so thick and rich, I can't imagine what the whole milk fat one would be like!

If you can get the organism balance in your GI tract more balanced you may not be dairy intolerant anymore. But there are people who are casein intolerant, but then ice cream would bother you!

Cow's milk contains casein and this can be allergenic in its own right. Lactose intolerance means you may have lost the enzyme that breaks down lactose. Lactose would then be fermented causing gas, bloating and diarrhea. So it can be confusing since both problems give similar symptoms.

[AlwaysLearning]

zeeclass6,
So Delicious has a cultured coconut milk drink and a cultured "yogurt" made from coconut milk. The drink has about 10 probiotics, as does kefir. I just learned of them a few days ago, and am going to town tomorrow or Saturday to pick some up. So Delicious' website is turtlemountain.com I think. I am on an elimination diet, and am really missing my daily yogurt, so I'm looking forward to the coconut substitute.

Originally Posted by zeeclass6

Mrs. D, thank you for all your knowledge!

I suppose if I take a Zantac once in a while, or only for a few straight days, it will be OK as long as I keep on top of taking the B-12 in the morning.

Approx. 5 years ago I was on a PPI drug for several months. My doctor never mentioned the B-12 thing to me. That might have been when my B-12 problem began. I understand it so much better now....I was on Augmentin for a bronchial and sinus infection, and afterward developed horrible reflux. Tested negative for H. Pylori. Went on Aciphex. Had an upper endoscopy, which was normal. Now looking back I understand that the antibiotic probably killed a bunch of of the good bacteria (despite me eating yogurt), and that is probably what caused the reflux in the first place. These days I refuse to take Augmentin unless it's absolutely necessary.

As a side note....I'd suffered with a lot of sinus infections and coughs. To make a long story short, years later I found out that I had a benign tumor in my sinuses! That was the cause of me getting so sick all the time (not allowing proper sinus drainage). Since the tumor was removed, I've been wonderfully normal....nowadays if I catch a cold, I recover in just a few days like a normal person and rarely develop a cough anymore!

I haven't seen full-fat kefir in any stores yet. Maybe my local health food store would have it. You reminded me that with lactose intolerance, lower fat dairy products make it worse. Which is why I don't have too much of a problem when I eat high fat premium ice cream!

I have been wondering whether my problem lately deals with milk protein versus lactose. The thing is, it seems that gastro doctors aren't well equipped to figure this out. If it can't be fixed with pharmceuticals or surgery, they seem to be clueless.

I'll seek out a higher fat kefir and try drinking it in smaller quantities. Everything I read about kefir says that it's very good for digestive problems and that it can actually cure lactose intolerance (or make it a lot better). Not really sure about the "curing" part, since the reason a person becomes intolerant is the lack of lactase enzyme. Maybe somehow the good bacteria restore that ability to produce the enzyme???