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Old 05-02-2009, 11:09 AM #1
Bayouman Bayouman is offline
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Default Alpha Lipioc Acid and Methyl B12

Good Morning, Neighbors: I have been diagnosed with PN in both feet. I am presently taking 600 to 900 mgs of gabapentin per day as well as 2 Metanx tablets for the stinging, tingling, stinging, and burning in both feet. I do not have any problem with weakness in either leg or dropping in either foot. I take an occasional temazepam when I am unable to get to sleep at night. I have read on this website and others that Methyl B12 is good for this condition and am in the process of ordering this vitamin. I have also read that alpha lipioc acid is good for PN. Does anyone know if the alpha lipoic acid is good for PN and if so can the B12 and alpha lipoic acid be taken together? Thanks a million and may God Bless!
Note: No physical condition is as bad as it could be!
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:32 PM #2
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Hi... Metanx contains methylB12. You should not need extra if you are taking 2 of those! That would be 4mg total.

Yes, you can take them together. Oral B12 is best taken on an empty stomach.
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:43 PM #3
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Default Methyl B12 and Alpha Lipioc Acid

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Originally Posted by mrsD View Post
Hi... Metanx contains methylB12. You should not need extra if you are taking 2 of those! That would be 4mg total.

Yes, you can take them together. Oral B12 is best taken on an empty stomach.
Mrs. D: Thanks for your help! Do you think taking the Methyl B12
would be as good as taking the Metanx? Here in Louisiana my
insurance(Humana)pays 50% of the cost of Rx drugs and nothing for
any kind of vitamin and Metanx is considered a vitamin. I can get 60
tablets of Methyl B12 from a local Doctor's Nutrition Center for $12.95
whereas the Metanx costs arouind $54 for 60 tablets. Do you think
taking the Alpha Lipioc Acid tablets will help? Thanks again for your
help! Arthur
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:42 PM #4
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Metanx has 3 things in it... all activated forms:

methylfolate
methylB12
P5P (activated pyridoxine)

You can do this yourself. MethylB12 is only one part of Metanx.
All 3 are available OTC. The reason Metanx is RX is that the methylfolate is high dose. The highest dose of methylfolate OTC is 800mcg compared to Metanx.
All three ingredients are available at iherb.com
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:05 PM #5
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Hi Bayouman
I have similar symptoms to yours but haven’t got the same pain issues.
I had burning at first, but it went away after I started using the B12.
What age are you?
Has the cause of your PN been found?
Do you have it in any other areas?
Can’t help with your queries on Alpha Lipoic Acid, have never heard of it.
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:26 AM #6
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Alpha lipoic acid has been recommended for years for PN.
There are many papers about it on PubMed:
example:
Quote:
Bosn J Basic Med Sci. 2008 Nov;8(4):341-5.Links
The role of alpha-lipoic acid in diabetic polyneuropathy treatment.
Bureković A, Terzić M, Alajbegović S, Vukojević Z, Hadzić N.

Clinic of Endocrinology, Diabetes Mellitus and Metabolic Diseases, University of Sarajevo Clinics Centre, Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Diabetic neuropathy represents late diabetes complications, and diabetes duration and long-term hyperglycemia are the main reasons for polyneuropathy. The goal was to estimate the effects of alpha-lipoic acid on symptoms of diabetic neuropathy after 600 mg i.v. for 3 weeks and 3 months of 300-600 mg of alpha-lipoic acid per os. This study has been designed as a multicentric, in 5-centers in B&H, carried out by 5 physicians with 20 diabetic patients each. Following parameters were monitored in 100 diabetics suffering from Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, both men and women: diabetes duration, diabetes therapy, duration of polyneuropathy symptoms, height, weight, BMI (body mass index), subjective assessment of patients, objective examinations of physicians and subjective assessment of physicians. 100 diabetics, average age 61,36; oldest 79, youngest 40, suffered from diabetes in average 11,9 years. There were 35 men and 65 women, 16 with Type 1 and 80 with Type 2 diabetes, while 4 patients were not classified. 69 were having insulin therapy and 31 oral hypoglicemics. Shortest diabetic status was less than a year, and longest was 28 years. Average duration of polyneuropathic symptoms was 3,02 years, shortest was less than a year, and the longest was 15 years. Average height was 1,70 m, average weight 76,13 kg, and average BMI 26,51 kg/m2. Significant statistic differences in improvement were recorded (P>0,05) according to Fridman's test for repeated measurements compared to initial findings in assessments: sensory symptoms of polyneuropathy, pain sensations as polyneuropathy symptoms, total score of polyneuropathy symptoms, subjective assessment of patients, subjective findings of physicians, and significant differences were not find (P>0,05) in autonomous and motoric neuropathy. Based on the conducted study, we have concluded that the application of alpha-lipoic acid during 3 months has helped to decrease the symptoms of diabetic neuropathy and in only one case out of 100 included patients there was no subjective improvement after drug application.

PMID: 19125705 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

Many researchers are in Europe and use IV forms in the papers.

Alpha Lipoic acid contains two isomers of lipoic acid.
One is inactive. So there has been an improvement in the supplement, called R-lipoic acid. This one is far more potent, and effective, IMO. It is readily available from several online suppliers at reasonable prices.

I use 100mg a day. Some people use 200mg. It may lower blood sugars in diabetics, and it can cause some increased mental functioning which may be interpreted as anxiety in some. Start at 50mg a day if that is the case for you.
Using this form you don't need the high doses of ALPHA.

Many people with neuro problems are using it now. Some posters on Parkinson's for example use it.

This paper suggests using it for multiple sclerosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:48 AM #7
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So bearing in mind, I don't have Diabetic Neurophathy, would there be any advantage in me taking it. All I am taking at the moment is B12

Sorry Bayouman I'm stealing your thread here.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:36 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numbfoot View Post
So bearing in mind, I don't have Diabetic Neurophathy, would there be any advantage in me taking it. All I am taking at the moment is B12

Sorry Bayouman I'm stealing your thread here.
Yes. The papers all have diabetic in them. That is because that is the most common form of neuropathy. But Lipoic acid shows improvements in many other neuro conditions. It is worth a try.

It is one ingredient that Dr. Ames believes protects mitochondrial damage. It is in the product he makes and promotes called Juvenon. (for age related mito damage)
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:29 PM #9
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Just done some research on google.
Weil Juvenon, no reference in this country.
Buying it direct from the Juvenon site, minimum 2 bottles + freight $168.72NZ
Will ask around local Pharmacies & health shops & see if they can get it.
Is there another name this product may be available under?
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:04 PM #10
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Default Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) and B12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouman View Post
Good Morning, Neighbors: I have been diagnosed with PN in both feet. I am presently taking 600 to 900 mgs of gabapentin per day as well as 2 Metanx tablets for the stinging, tingling, stinging, and burning in both feet. I do not have any problem with weakness in either leg or dropping in either foot. I take an occasional temazepam when I am unable to get to sleep at night. I have read on this website and others that Methyl B12 is good for this condition and am in the process of ordering this vitamin. I have also read that alpha lipioc acid is good for PN. Does anyone know if the alpha lipoic acid is good for PN and if so can the B12 and alpha lipoic acid be taken together? Thanks a million and may God Bless!
Note: No physical condition is as bad as it could be!
ALA in conjuction with B12 is used by German MDs to treat PN resulting from diabetese, they have not shown it to be effective Idiopathic PN as of yet. Two major clinical tests are going on in separate medical schools, in in Moscow Russia and one in the US to test the German's claim. ALA helps the neurosystem and brain absorb vitamins Bs, C, D and E or so I understand, this is the route I am taking. Seems to help, I have had this PN for 2-3 decades, but only in thelast 5 years has surge significantly. It now covers 100% of me. I also used physical therapy tok retrain my body to rely on occula and vestibular mechanisms of balance. However, either the suppliment are helping or they are the best plecebos in existance. My intern say definitely take the suppliments. This conditions has gotten highly aggressive, so I am getting much more aggressive in my supplimental treatments. Regarding your feet, both my feet have no feeling with respect to pressure and my hands are almost as bad. Two of my MDs prescribed 10 - 18 inch boots, firm but not hard leather with high arches, as a result of these boots I can walk with out support and it feels like I can feel the ground again. Also, I have really severe stenosis up most my spine and am facing several more surgeries. After the first laminectomies of L4, L5, S1, S2 I got tremendous relief from the PN, it has since returned. We often think MRIs etc show all the points of compression that might cause PN, but that is not the case, as I learned I might just have a really tight spinal canal, as cortisone epidurals really help. So I am using everything I can find. CoQ10 looks promising, but I cannot tolerate it, mkes me sick.
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