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Old 05-06-2010, 04:33 AM   #1
mrsD
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Lightbulb Dietary Connections and Peripheral Neuropathy:

This is a subject people just don't want to deal with. I have found over the years, that changing diet is one of the hardest for some patients to accept. Food is almost in the same belief category as religion! Comfort, nostalgia, convenience, pleasure, are all issues people rely upon during the day. To change their habits?
It can be very difficult, and many are resistant to the thought.

BUT... Some neuropathy can be connected to various food intakes.
When a person has a painful neuropathy that defies diagnosis, and is progressing, and tests are negative, one really HAS to consider food intake as a potential culprit!

1) The biggest offender is GLUTEN. This peptide is found in some grains, wheat, rye, barley and is used heavily in foods and baked goods. (the treats we love, the pizza, pasta, bread).
So going gluten free as a test to see if PN improves is not greeted with enthusiasm.

This is a very good resource to clarify why gluten can be a problem.
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglut...eralneuropathy

I'll refer the reader to jccgf's wonderful webpage. We also have a Gluten forum here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum13.html

It goes into detail on blood testing, genetic testing, stool testing, and for those who have no insurance and who have limited financial means, just doing the diet may tell you that you have a problem with gluten. I did this diet for 3 yrs and during that time discovered MY problem was FRUCTOSE which I continued to use so that the gluten free diet was not that successful for me.

But many people over the years have found that the gluten peptide does get into their blood stream and wreak havoc with many systems including the nerves. If a person IS celiac or gluten intolerant, their GI tract does not work well, and the result is a condition we call malabsorption. This means that nutrients --vitamins and minerals-- are not absorbed properly and the result can be vitamin deficiencies. These nutrients will have their own thread soon. But B12, zinc, B6, folate, calcium, magnesium, etc are just some of the more common ones that can be impaired. Low levels of any of these (and some others) will cause significant symptoms all thru the body.

2) There are other culprits from food as well. Some people may be intolerant to casein (from dairy), soy (vegetarians and others), nightshade vegetables (potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant), citrus (may cause arthritis symptoms), and the lily family (onions, garlic). If one suspects some food as a trigger to burning pain, the only way to target it well, is to do an elimination diet. Avoid the suspected food for at least 4 weeks, and then introduce it again. Typically a symptom like burning, will taper off, and return with a vengeance when reintroduced.
Some people get allergic testing, but I think the elimination diet is less expensive and valuable and you can do it yourself.

This is how I found my fructose intolerance (which I discovered 1 in 3 people share!). Also potatoes trigger my foot burning so now I avoid those. I personally think that this happens over our lifetime, slowly, and may be related to the OTC NSAIDs we take for pain. Also chronic use of antibiotics upset the GI tract and inflammation occurs and elements from these foods than pass thru the leaky gut that results and end up in our blood stream where they don't belong, and cause inflammation from the reactions by our immune systems. The way NSAIDs work, was shown in some studies back in 1999, that illustrated that
these common drugs, block Cox-2 which is in the lining of the intestines for a reason ....to block foreign substances from getting into us the wrong way. By blocking this critical enzyme, the peptides from foods then can enter us and create conflicts with our immune system.

3) Another way food may cause PN type symptoms....is the release of histamine. Histamine may be released from food that is stale or going bad, or it may be triggered by some factor in the food.
Here is a link to histamine releasing foods:
This link explains the difference between allergy and intolerance and lists the foods that can be culprits:
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
One can Google "foods high in histamine" and find many websites to explain this.
When histamine is involved, there may be 1) itching, 2) redness, 3) burning sensations, 4) tingling
Some of these often are described by people with PN as well.

4) Food Additives: These include MSG, salt, hot spices like curry, hot peppers. MSG is a manmade form of glutamate and is very hard to handle...it floods receptors for pain, called NMDA receptors, and often may blur vision, increase thirst, cause tight feelings in the chest and/or headache. Often in Asian foods, soy sauces, soups, stews, and most restaurant food.
There are many many sites on Google on this subject. This one for example explains how MSG may be hidden in your food:
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/II.WhereIsMSG.html
This additive can be very destructive to some people. Its potential for causing discomfort and worse, should be an incentive for people to avoid processed foods as much as possible and eat fresh, whole foods.

Spices also may induce burning. I've had some reactions to curry myself, so when I use it, I use it lightly. Reactions to spices and MSG is a very personal thing. Some are very sensitive some not. So doing a elimination of a suspected spice, and reintroducing it may the the way you discover any culprit in your food.

And this is a good resource for finding out the nutritive value of your food choices:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/
You can search most foods and some common processed foods too, on this site, and it will give you 1) inflammatory index, 2) protein,carb, fat content, 3) vitamins and minerals, 4) glycemic index load:
Broccoli:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/v...roducts/2356/2

When making changes to your diet the above website is really handy and very helpful!

One last thought: Trying to change your diet is not easy. So take it day by day, and slowly over time, you will find you may improve and feel much better.
If you eat out frequently because of your job, there are now interesting books and resources to help you choose foods in restaurants.
I really enjoy this resource:
http://eatthis.menshealth.com/home
(women can use it too, even though it is on a menshealth type website). I saw this on Rachel Ray's show once about dormitory food for college students. I thought it was a great way to learn about food and how to make wise choices.

This thread is open to comments and questions about food.
__________________
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.-- Galileo Galilei

************************************

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Weezie looking at petunias 8.25.2017


****************************
These forums are for mutual support and information sharing only. The forums are not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.

Last edited by mrsD; 05-06-2010 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:49 PM   #2
Don_S
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Thanks for this, Mrs. D. Your information is great.

My girlfriend is gluten- and dairy-intolerant, so for the past two years I've been avoiding wheat and dairy too (solidarity!). My recently-diagnosed PN came on gradually and is mild so far, and seems to have no particular episodic nature. It doesn't seem to be triggered by anything, it's just usually there no matter what I've eaten or done.

But diet has a huge impact on the way our bodies function, and the info in this thread is right on. Supplements are sometimes necessary. But to me it seems that eating fresh, nourishing food gives a range of vitamins, phytochemicals, and anti-oxidants that can't be beat.

I've used nutritiondata.com for years -- good to find out that salmon has more B12 than beefsteak, and gives you the omega-3 oils as well!

It's too bad gluten-free baking products are so expensive, especially when the raw materials aren't Brown rice flour, tapioca flour, and corn starch are cheap, and making baking mixes for pancakes, waffles, and cobblers is easy. So far I've kept to prepared mixes for breads...
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:20 PM   #3
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Could someone please speak to whether or not a person with non-diabetic neuropathy should cut carbs? Right now healthy carbs - fruits, brown rice, legumes, veggies - make up roughly half of my daily caloric intake. Since they provide so many nutrients it's hard to imagine that they might be bad for me. If i were to lessen my intake, should I eat more fats or lean protein? Thanks!
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:41 PM   #4
mrsD
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Lightbulb

Sounds like those in moderation are good for you.

If you are more vegetarian, you can add soy and beans as well.
Beans are high in magnesium and protein.

It is refined sugar and white carbs, gluten bread etc which should be avoided as much as possible.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanshan View Post
Could someone please speak to whether or not a person with non-diabetic neuropathy should cut carbs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsD View Post
It is refined sugar and white carbs, gluten bread etc which should be avoided as much as possible.
I agree. I can no longer eat sugar, flour, rice, potatos... any of the complex starches. I eat fruits, but solid/pulpy ones rather than juicy ones. Most (see below) veggies are fine. I've also found that, despite being Dx'd as non-diabetic idiopathic, my body/PN still responds as if I were diabetic, so I avoid all sugar sweets (including honey) and even sugar alcohols, found in many "sugar-free" and "diabetic" foods/treats. It makes finding chocolate I can eat a real bear.

There's also a possibility that some fruits/vegetables could still be triggers for you. I have to watch nightshades; they exacerbate my symptoms.

Trial & error should help you identify them. Keep a diary of what you eat/drink. If a flare occurs, review what you've eaten/drunk over the past 24-72 hours (some triggers can be delayed). I also have triggers I can get away with once (a week or month) but any more than that and they cause a flare.

The fun never stops.

Doc
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:58 AM   #6
CoachT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsD View Post
This is a subject people just don't want to deal with. I have found over the years, that changing diet is one of the hardest for some patients to accept. Food is almost in the same belief category as religion! Comfort, nostalgia, convenience, pleasure, are all issues people rely upon during the day. To change their habits?
It can be very difficult, and many are resistant to the thought.

BUT... Some neuropathy can be connected to various food intakes.
When a person has a painful neuropathy that defies diagnosis, and is progressing, and tests are negative, one really HAS to consider food intake as a potential culprit!

1) The biggest offender is GLUTEN. This peptide is found in some grains, wheat, rye, barley and is used heavily in foods and baked goods. (the treats we love, the pizza, pasta, bread).
So going gluten free as a test to see if PN improves is not greeted with enthusiasm.

This is a very good resource to clarify why gluten can be a problem.
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglut...eralneuropathy

I'll refer the reader to jccgf's wonderful webpage. We also have a Gluten forum here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum13.html

It goes into detail on blood testing, genetic testing, stool testing, and for those who have no insurance and who have limited financial means, just doing the diet may tell you that you have a problem with gluten. I did this diet for 3 yrs and during that time discovered MY problem was FRUCTOSE which I continued to use so that the gluten free diet was not that successful for me.

But many people over the years have found that the gluten peptide does get into their blood stream and wreak havoc with many systems including the nerves. If a person IS celiac or gluten intolerant, their GI tract does not work well, and the result is a condition we call malabsorption. This means that nutrients --vitamins and minerals-- are not absorbed properly and the result can be vitamin deficiencies. These nutrients will have their own thread soon. But B12, zinc, B6, folate, calcium, magnesium, etc are just some of the more common ones that can be impaired. Low levels of any of these (and some others) will cause significant symptoms all thru the body.

2) There are other culprits from food as well. Some people may be intolerant to casein (from dairy), soy (vegetarians and others), nightshade vegetables (potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant), citrus (may cause arthritis symptoms), and the lily family (onions, garlic). If one suspects some food as a trigger to burning pain, the only way to target it well, is to do an elimination diet. Avoid the suspected food for at least 4 weeks, and then introduce it again. Typically a symptom like burning, will taper off, and return with a vengeance when reintroduced.
Some people get allergic testing, but I think the elimination diet is less expensive and valuable and you can do it yourself.

This is how I found my fructose intolerance (which I discovered 1 in 3 people share!). Also potatoes trigger my foot burning so now I avoid those. I personally think that this happens over our lifetime, slowly, and may be related to the OTC NSAIDs we take for pain. Also chronic use of antibiotics upset the GI tract and inflammation occurs and elements from these foods than pass thru the leaky gut that results and end up in our blood stream where they don't belong, and cause inflammation from the reactions by our immune systems. The way NSAIDs work, was shown in some studies back in 1999, that illustrated that
these common drugs, block Cox-2 which is in the lining of the intestines for a reason ....to block foreign substances from getting into us the wrong way. By blocking this critical enzyme, the peptides from foods then can enter us and create conflicts with our immune system.

3) Another way food may cause PN type symptoms....is the release of histamine. Histamine may be released from food that is stale or going bad, or it may be triggered by some factor in the food.
Here is a link to histamine releasing foods:
This link explains the difference between allergy and intolerance and lists the foods that can be culprits:
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
One can Google "foods high in histamine" and find many websites to explain this.
When histamine is involved, there may be 1) itching, 2) redness, 3) burning sensations, 4) tingling
Some of these often are described by people with PN as well.

4) Food Additives: These include MSG, salt, hot spices like curry, hot peppers. MSG is a manmade form of glutamate and is very hard to handle...it floods receptors for pain, called NMDA receptors, and often may blur vision, increase thirst, cause tight feelings in the chest and/or headache. Often in Asian foods, soy sauces, soups, stews, and most restaurant food.
There are many many sites on Google on this subject. This one for example explains how MSG may be hidden in your food:
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/II.WhereIsMSG.html
This additive can be very destructive to some people. Its potential for causing discomfort and worse, should be an incentive for people to avoid processed foods as much as possible and eat fresh, whole foods.

Spices also may induce burning. I've had some reactions to curry myself, so when I use it, I use it lightly. Reactions to spices and MSG is a very personal thing. Some are very sensitive some not. So doing a elimination of a suspected spice, and reintroducing it may the the way you discover any culprit in your food.

And this is a good resource for finding out the nutritive value of your food choices:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/
You can search most foods and some common processed foods too, on this site, and it will give you 1) inflammatory index, 2) protein,carb, fat content, 3) vitamins and minerals, 4) glycemic index load:
Broccoli:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/v...roducts/2356/2

When making changes to your diet the above website is really handy and very helpful!

One last thought: Trying to change your diet is not easy. So take it day by day, and slowly over time, you will find you may improve and feel much better.
If you eat out frequently because of your job, there are now interesting books and resources to help you choose foods in restaurants.
I really enjoy this resource:
http://eatthis.menshealth.com/home
(women can use it too, even though it is on a menshealth type website). I saw this on Rachel Ray's show once about dormitory food for college students. I thought it was a great way to learn about food and how to make wise choices.

This thread is open to comments and questions about food.
I think I need to try an elimination diet. I am just so skeptical. However, it seems to me that every single time I try to eat an extemely healthy diet, I manage to get worse instead of better. For instance, I started using the Nutribullet, blending all sorts of healthy vegatables, fruits and nuts and now have been in my worse flare-up with the new symptom of burning from head to toe.

I am particulary interested in Mrs. D's fructose sensitivity. I have noticed over the years that there are certain fruits that cause a strange reaction in me that nobody else can seem to relate to. When I eat certain fruits or sour mixes, I almost immediately notice that my pours in my head starts to sweat and tingle. Grapefruit, Strawberries and Margaritas are common culprits. Is this perhaps a common reaction to a food sensitivity? Has anyone else experienced this?
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:13 AM   #7
mrsD
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Some people cannot tolerate citrus (or things with citric acid added).

Some fruits have acids that stimulate the GI tract. For example people with hereditary angioedema cannot eat fruit because this acid releases bradykinin in the GI tract and causes GI upset.

Some fruits like bananas and pineapple have serotonin in them and this may cause looseness.

I just can't handle fruit. Sometimes I have a little, but very little and only once a week or so.

There is one thing about elimination diets. I've read that if you do them, avoiding a certain substance for a while (usually longer than 2 weeks) you may be able to each a bit of the trigger food once a week or so (but not daily or often). The intolerance sort of fades, and then takes a while to build up after a long abstinence.

MSG can cause many nerve symptoms and increased pain.
(monosodium glutamate).

The congeners in wine and beer and some liquors can cause problems too.

Grapefruit and its juice can cause many RX drug reactions, and the list of drugs gets longer every day. This is the result of inactivation of the Cytochrome enzymes in the GI lining, allowing more of a drug to be absorbed.

Nightshade veggies especially can cause burning pain all over, and/or in the feet. Sometimes there is a slight delay of this into the next day. The culprit is the alkaloid solanine found in the veggies.

There are also histamine releaser foods and histamine containing foods. There is a thread in the Subforum about this.
Histamine released suddenly affects the skin, and flushing, rash or sweating may occur with it.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread161714.html

Each person will have their own combination of intolerances if they are present, based on their lifestyle and history.
__________________
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.-- Galileo Galilei

************************************

.
Weezie looking at petunias 8.25.2017


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These forums are for mutual support and information sharing only. The forums are not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:34 PM   #8
janieg
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I found this thread while searching for "zinc."

I've just found something else in my DNA that could possibly explain the cause of my glucose spikes. As everyone is probably aware, high glucose is an insult to nerves, and while I'm not diabetic or even pre-diabetic based on my current A1C result, I incur nasty spikes on carb consumption, especially sugar-based and grain-based carbs. Legumes and corn don't have as bad of an effect.

This is what I found in my DNA compliments of promethease.com. I have the CC genotype.

rs13266634(C;C)

increased risk for type-2 diabetes

rs13266634 is a SNP in the zinc transporter protein member 8 SLC30A8 gene that has primarily been associated with type-2 diabetes in several studies. This SNP is also known as the Arg325Trp or R325W variant; the (C) allele encodes the arginine (R), and the (T) allele encodes the tryptophan (W). significantly associated p = 0.0073; in 1,630 Japanese subjects with type-2 diabetes and in 1,064 controls The major alleles of the SLC30A8 SNP rs13266634 and the HHEX SNP rs7923837 associate with reduced insulin secretion, but not with insulin resistance. 46% of European non-diabetic offspring of type-2 diabetes patients are rs13266634(C;C) homozygotes; they are diabetes-prone and characterised by a 19% decrease in first-phase insulin release following an intravenous glucose load.

After further Googling, I found this 2017 study...

Some dietary factors can modulate the effect of the zinc transporters 8 polymorphism on the risk of metabolic syndrome | Scientific Reports

Conclusions

Results of this study have demonstrated significant interaction among omega-3 fatty acids, zinc, salty snack intakes, and the ZNT8 variant, in relation to the MetS and its components. Compared with the CT + TT genotype carriers, the consumption of omega-3 fatty acids by the CC genotype carriers, supplying one percent of the energy requirement, reduced the risk of developing the MetS, high TG and low HDL-C up to 50%, 19%, and 32%, respectively. In addition, compared to the CT + TT genotype carriers, higher zinc consumption by the CC genotype carriers had reduced the risk of high FPG up to 50%.

So I guess I'll be making sure I eat zinc-rich food and supplement it as well, and also stepping up on my omega-3s.
__________________
Idiopathic, Full Body, Small Fiber Neuropathy since 11/2013. Symptoms include altered sensation in toes; constant tingling/vibrations in feet and lower legs; intermittent tingling in temples, scalp and face; full body "buzzing" in the morning; referred sensation in feet cause by touch; occasional bouts with severe cramping in my feet and legs; when flaring, full body burning.

Metabolic issues: FBG -88 A1C - 5.1 with glucose spikes near 300, can't metabolize alcohol, high LDL.

Current treatments:
  • Omega 3's - Fish Oil (2400 mg EPA, 1200mg DHA), 200 mg Magnesium Threonate, NAD+
  • 5 mg Meribin Biotin for low-normal biotinidase levels.
  • Low carb "back to the farm" diet, lots of water
  • Quell TENS unit, 5% lidocaine patches, magnesium cream, CBD oil
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:41 PM   #9
cat1234
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Default Gastroparesis and Diet for PN

Hello all. I have been reading the thread on diet triggers for PN. And I am very discouraged. Has anyone else had neuropathy that has led to gastroparesis (stomach muscle paralysis)? I believe mine has been caused by some kind of vagus nerve dysfunction. The diet for this disease is mostly low fat and low fiber which consists of white rice, potatoes, and other easy to digest foods while severely reducing fresh fruits and vegetables, beans and fats. Since my PN and gastroparesis are not getting better, I am wondering how all this diet can be improved upon to help manage the symptoms?
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:59 AM   #10
janieg
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Hi cat1234,

I'm sorry I can't offer any help. I do know for a fact that what I consume can trigger very bad PN symptoms, but I have to be able to isolate what food(s) are involved. I usually only experience when I've been out somewhere and eating a wide variety of "abnormal" foods for me. The worst symptoms I've had in years occurred after eating at a Brazilian steakhouse where there was an entire buffet of appetizers and sides. I'm not even sure what some of the stuff was I sampled.

I also know I'm dealing with some kind of electrolyte problem that will results in horrendous cramping in my feet and legs if things get out of whack. I haven't figured out all those triggers either, although I do know a lot of salt coupled with insufficient hydration will definitely do it. That's not the only involved, though.

Do you have any electrolyte issues that you know of?

janie

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat1234 View Post
Hello all. I have been reading the thread on diet triggers for PN. And I am very discouraged. Has anyone else had neuropathy that has led to gastroparesis (stomach muscle paralysis)? I believe mine has been caused by some kind of vagus nerve dysfunction. The diet for this disease is mostly low fat and low fiber which consists of white rice, potatoes, and other easy to digest foods while severely reducing fresh fruits and vegetables, beans and fats. Since my PN and gastroparesis are not getting better, I am wondering how all this diet can be improved upon to help manage the symptoms?
__________________
Idiopathic, Full Body, Small Fiber Neuropathy since 11/2013. Symptoms include altered sensation in toes; constant tingling/vibrations in feet and lower legs; intermittent tingling in temples, scalp and face; full body "buzzing" in the morning; referred sensation in feet cause by touch; occasional bouts with severe cramping in my feet and legs; when flaring, full body burning.

Metabolic issues: FBG -88 A1C - 5.1 with glucose spikes near 300, can't metabolize alcohol, high LDL.

Current treatments:
  • Omega 3's - Fish Oil (2400 mg EPA, 1200mg DHA), 200 mg Magnesium Threonate, NAD+
  • 5 mg Meribin Biotin for low-normal biotinidase levels.
  • Low carb "back to the farm" diet, lots of water
  • Quell TENS unit, 5% lidocaine patches, magnesium cream, CBD oil
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