Fee Petitions & Your SSDI Attorney
 

I am looking for concrete insight into the practice of "fee petitioning" by your disability attorney/representative. If you are unfamiliar with the term you should pay very close attention to what I have to say here, because few of you are likely to know the extremes your attorney will go to, to get paid far far above the current $6,000 cap.

In my case, I just won my federally remanded ALJ hearing(my third in ten years)on a bench decision, it took just twenty-five minutes at the hearing, an SSA medical expert testified and gave me a less then sedentary RFC on the spot, this was likely due to the fact that for the first time in the ten years I had been pursuing my benefits, my primary treating doctors medical records were in attendance. I personally got these records after the lies of two previous attorneys came to light, both had insisted that they had done their jobs by getting all of my records, both were lying to me! Thats another story, regardless, after the third attorney also failed to get them, I personally intervened and got them for myself.

These records were absolutely crucial, so crucial that I won the remand hearing in under thirty minutes with them! The third attorney even told me this face to face, he said that these records were so thorough, and over such a long period of time that there was no way an SSA medical expert, or ALJ could reject them. The result being of course the bench decision.

Here's where things get very slimy, the third attorney, who never got the records(I did)came out of of the little hearing room all excited, because we were now talking about a very substantial amount of back benefits, going back almost an entire decade. He let it slip to me that he was going to do a "fee petition" in which he claims to have earned far in excess of the capped $6,000 fee, a claim wholly dishonest, and unsupported by his contribution to the outcome. For example, the week before the hearing he didn't know what my disability even was! The day of the hearing, I noticed he had a very thick file with him which I immediately identified as the records I had mailed to his office six months previously, its all he had with him, nothing else.

Forget that the attorney did nothing to even remotely earn over forty thousand dollars, thats beyond the scope of the post, what he did do knowing full well the desperate state of my affairs, was initiate a "fee petition" which you the reader will find all but impossible to find any references of in any of the literature, or on the various internet ssdi grindhouse law firms explanations of how they get paid, the few references to "fee petitions" all seem to come from SSA itself.. The "fee petition itself causes substantial delay in the processing of your back benefits, maybe as much as a year!!! Do understand, men & women who have won their claims, even on bench decisions as I did, having to wait as much as another year or more to get paid while the SSA is forced to investigate the claims of your attorney! Everything is forced to come to a grinding halt because of the greed of the attorney, who by these actions appear to be all but depraved & indifferent to their clients dire circumstances....

I am looking for comments from those of you who know whats involved here, those who actually were forced to endure this "fee petition" process so that their attorney could bleed them for substantially more money with the full approval of the SSA? I encourage everyone of you to thoroughly question your attorney regarding their deeply deceptive fee structures....Thanks for any substantive responses....

Thanks for sharing your story. I actually am not surprised by it. I believe the $6000 cap is for basic services of an attorney up to a successful first ALJ hearing with a one and only attorney. It has been a while since I have read and studied the SSDI rules and regulations. If I remember correctly, the $6000 cap does NOT necessarily include any thing beyond the initial ALJ hearing.

I am very sorry to hear what you are going through and wish you the best including a denial by SSA to award the attorney the fees you quote and that you will not be delayed the benefits for which you are entitled.

Since the attorney is paid out of your benefits by SSA, until that is a settled and agreed upon amount, SSA will not be able to release your back pay to you.

I hope that you will at least immediately receive your monthly benefit while this matter regarding back-pay benefit balance is determined.

Dear SkyKing,

Did this (the third) attorney represent you in Federal Court where you were remanded back to your final ALJ hearing?

The $6000 cap will carry a claimant from initial application, through a first ALJ hearing. After that, the cap is gone if I remember correctly.

Also, am I understanding correctly that you had a fee agreement signed by you and approved by SSA with THIS attorney number 3 that specified the $6000 limit?

From what point did #3 take your case?

Fee agreements beyond the initial ALJ hearing are usually very different than the standard fee agreement.

If this attorney represented you in Federal court, I am sorry to tell you that he could very likely be awarded more than the $6000 cap even if you feel it unjustified. It is not a matter of just who obtained your records. His justification would be his representation before a Federal judge. Obtaining your medical records is something that is often done by SSA at the time of your original application and not a means of justifying an excess fee by an attorney from SSA. So that is NOT the issue at hand. It does not matter if the attorney was not the one that obtained your records or not. It is for his legal services appearing in Federal court that would be justification.

My comments are based solely on the information you present in this post. Many details of which attorney and when are not indicated so my response may not be valid if all the facts of what services attorney # 3 provided are not indicated.

Sorry I can not give you better news.

It goes like this, attorney number two after negligently costing me hearing number two back in 09, punted me off to some firm in Chicago. This firm took my case to federal court and won a remand hearing, in which get this, they were paid via the "EAJA's act" at whatever the prevailing hourly rate is for such attorneys. Then that firm punted me down to one of their junior attorneys whom I attempted to fire after he delayed the first remand hearing and then refused to acknowledge his responsibility for, this was discovered only after I personally contacted ODAR who then informed me that the delay had been initiated by my representative! Mind you, "he refused to acknowledge that the delay that I had never been consulted about, was his doing!"

I was unable to secure another attorney, all refused to take the case because they had never seen the missing medical files, they only saw the SSA disc file which contained nothing but IME's from multiple insurance companies during my work comp lawsuit way back in 2002-2004! After it became apparent that I was stuck with this creep, I began badgering him over the missing files, explaining to him in exacting detail why they were missing, who was responsible, and how valuable they had to be to my case. Of course he assured me that he was different and that he would get all necessary documents required to prove my case, six months later, and just six months out of the remand hearing, I personally contacted ALLINA and getting these records released to me, twelve years of my primary doctors medical files on me. They told me that they had never heard from any attorney on my behalf after tghe work comp case settled in 04!

So, we go to the new hearing, in which brilliant lawyer number three(who is clueless)prepares me for inevitable failure, never at any point imparting anything resembling confidence in my case, largely because he had never taken the time to read over the files I had obtained for him from ALLINA. We go into the hearing, and surprise surprise, the ALJ has done his job, he actually took the time to read over the files that had been missing from my previous two hearings, as had is medical expert who was physically on hand, following twenty-five minutes of banter between the ALJ, the ME, and the VE, he issued a bench decision paying my claim in full!!!

My attorney hadn't said more then the two introductory sentences which kicked off the hearing....in the little office room reserved for attorneys and clients suddenly my guy is "Clarence Darrow," he explains to me how crucial my primary doctors medical records were and how he is now going to be filing a "fee petition" so as to get a lot more money then the $6.000 cap! At no stage was it explained that these parasites could exceed the cap, and I openly challenge you or anyone here to present a single piece of evidence from any of the usual sources of SSDI representation that they can and will easily defeat the cap and further, do so at the expense of the well being of you their client!

In fact attorney number two(who I am meeting with a malpractice lawyer to discuss tomorrow)even told me what a great deal it would be for me with these guys because their fees would all be covered under the EAJA act, which was clearly a lie, if all holds as it appears to be, this firm is going to be paid twice, and in the latter instance it would amount to nothing short of theft!

Thanks for the additional information. If attorney #3 did nothing more than show up at your final ALJ hearing, SSA will not find his petition valid and should deny it.

I believe you had 15 days to contest the fee petition presented by the attorney. I may not be remembering that correctly but I think that is the rule.

I left a message for you on your home page.

Dear SkyKing,

I am very sorry you have had such an awful battle and such a long one. It is very good to hear that you FINALLY, after 10 years, were approved.

If attorney #3 did NOT represent you in Federal court, only at your last ALJ hearing, I do not think he would be entitled to an approval on his fee petition.

Let us hope that it is denied and you get your back-pay benefits quickly and that your attorney will be limited to the $6000 cap.

Based on the information you have supplied, he is NOT justified for going beyond the cap., I feel confident that SSA will agree. He has to substantiate his fee to them.

You might want to look into contesting his petition. Good luck and so glad you finally won at least ONE battle. If you can fight for 10 years, you can fight the fee petition.

Good luck to you and keep us posted.

One other thing which I forgot to add, the ALJ at the third hearing vacated lawyer number threes "fee agreement" or did not approve of it, the stated reasons being, "your appointed representation who are not members of the same law firm or other business, and the representatives from the other law firm did not waive charging and collecting a fee!" Thus the ALJ in his fully favorable decision instructed me and or my representatives that we/they could request a review and or file a "fee petition!"

I believe that the attorney planned on that from the first, in other words the ALJ's action was merely a formality, which in no way predicts future outcome of the SSA investigation of the "fee petition," or the length and depth of the process...

Its important that folks understand what the issue is here, the "fee petition" process as I understand it, stops everything in its tracks as the SSA is forced to investigate the attorneys claims, which in this instance are purely a fabrication, he's not pursuing it because he earned it, he's pursuing it(the fee petition)because he can!

The attorney knowing the dire circumstances I face, willfully, and in m opinion, with virtually depraved indifference, initiated this process unconcerned in the least by the staggering delays its likely foisting upon me! Further, in his actions I am concerned that the AC will pick up the case which is exactly what you don't want to have happen.

My advice to all SSDI claimants is to never hire an attorney, you do not need them, they are for all intents and purposes parasites in this system. The major factor here is knowing your files, I had three attorneys involved in this over ten years and they collectively caused me dramatically greater harm than did the SSA. You can say that in my federal court action I required the aid of an attorney, true enough it was. Nonetheless that attorney had nothing to do with this case after the district court action, and that attorney was paid in full via EAJA! After that the file went back into the SSDI systems for a remanded hearing all that was needed in hindsight was my missing medical files which were virtually un-impeachable, and believe me when I say this, after ten years of this BS, I can tell you as a qualified expert on the topic of SSDI representation, you are most likely hurting yourself by retaining the services of one of these attorney's, they do absolutely nothing, none of them prepare themselves until the week of your hearing, many of them not until the day of the hearing, its been my experience in fact, that they can very greatly negatively affect the outcome via their incompetence & negligence, which I have concluded is quite common.

Keep this in mind, only 1% of all ALJ denials proceed from the worthless AC process into federal district court as did mine. What percentage do you wager were screwed by some incompetent or negligent attorney's actions resulting in them giving up altogether? Just 1% proceed to the federal court, my case was so strong with my missing medical files that they resulted in a bench decision rendered in just twenty five minutes, and I had never won at any step along the ladder until the federal court stepped in!

But who filed the appeal with the federal court? Did you know how to do that? Was there a brief or an argument presented?

It's easy to look back and see what didn't work; harder to see the future. Why did you keep hiring attorneys if you were so disgusted with them? How much time did the first two spend working on your case for free (since they won't get a fee)? Why is that fair to them?

If you don't like the terms of a contract, don't sign it. As long as the terms are legal, you must abide by it.

Skyking-I know exactly what you are referring to. I had a similar problem on my appeal.

The way the court decides attorneys' fees is neither fair nor informed. It is skewed in favor of the attorney(s), and they know it. The government really needs to reform how the fee is handled, but I truly doubt it ever will be, as no one is interested in making sure the disabled aren't being taken advantage of by their legal representatives.

I hope you are able to block your attorney's efforts to make a mint off of your case. I wasn't able to.

And it has nothing to do with 'signing a contract'. You expect to pay a fair price for a service rendered, and not an exorbitant fee. But the government takes our money and does what they will with it, despite the facts. That is neither fair nor just, and we are right to be upset by it.

You are missing the point entirely, however I will detail things a bit so you may secure a more positive grasp of the case.

Its not easy to look back, it took much investigation on my part when in fatc it would have been easy to just give up.

1. Attorney number one, failed to obtain all documents she had signed a binding legal contract to secure! This attorney(04-06)returned not a single phone call in 13 months! She was fired for cause and replaced with....

2. Attorney number two, hired to replace attorney number one after it became clear that number one had negligently handled the securing of documents. Unfortunately this party was far worse, this attorney did exactly the same thing as attorney number one, except this attorney openly lied to me regarding these documents on a half dozen occasions, including in is office one month prior to the second hearing where after much prompting he insisted that he had obtained the files that were missing from the first hearing(12 years of medical files from my primary)and then again on the day of the hearing! This was not discovered until late 09, after he had punted me off to a firm in Chicago! More on this creep in a moment...

3. Attorney number three, never met, never spoke with, yet this attorney presented a brief to the US district court, case was heard in summer of 13(4-years after previous denial)and he prevailed against SSA. Case was remanded on a ridiculous technicality, the ALJ got a job description wrong in his lengthy denial, virtually meaningless in the scheme of things, yet this was my first pay dirt against the SSA! Attorney number three was paid in full via EAJA at the prevailing wage for such legal representation! This attorney then punted me off to a junior attorney at the very bottom of the firms structure.

4. Attorney number four, failed to notify SSA that he was counsel of record, failed to secure missing medical file(those pesky 12-years again), failed to notify me that he had successfully delayed my remand hearing(this is why he was to be fired, attorney & his aide refused to acknowledge that they had introduced the delay, I had to contact ODAR directly(the judges office)and that immediately prompted a phone call from the attorney suddenly full of excuses and apology! At this point it was ascertained that he had also failed to obtain those missing 12 years. I finally contacted Allina and had these records sent directly to myself!

At this point I am actively shopping the case for new representation, all turned it down, one even insisting that I had zero chance of success, he like all of the others, declined to consider the now present 12 years of medical files written by my longtime treating primary, these were in fact three huge files about as thick as the Mlps phone book! It was plainly obvious that for a payoff of just $6,000 there was only so much these vaunted representatives of the poor were willing to do!

So, I am stuck with attorney number four, who three days out from the remand hearing contacts me(Friday afternoon before Monday morning hearing)and inquires about the mild nature of my disability to my neck(he had read over an insurance IME from the disc file, IME's are notoriously biased towards the party that pays their fee)prompting me to immediately send him detailed data via faxes from real doctors(all contained within those pesky 12 years of files)detailing the severe stenosis in my thoracic spine resulting in a laundry list of pain and disabling conditions. So, attorney number four has no idea what my disabling condition even is, even though he has the entire 12 years of files in his possession. Fortunately for me, the presiding ALJ now also has those missing 12 years of files, as does his ME.

We go to the remand hearing, where I ask the attorney if he thinks at the least that we have an argument, he refuses to say even that!!!!I fully expect to lose. We enter the hearing, introductions are made(the last we will hear from attorney number four)and the ALJ has an enormous file before him, as does his ME, who he begins to question in some depth. After ten minutes of back and forth he asks the ME about an RFC, he responds that it would have to be considered less then sedentary, the ALJ thanks him and then turns to the VE and asks him based upon that RFC how many jobs exist in the national economy, the answer is of course none!

Judge then thanks him and states that he is going to make a bench decision(at this moment I know that I have finally prevailed and have won my claim in full)where he declares that he is entering a finding of disabled, and issuing a fully favorable decision! BTW, this ALJ is the same exact ALJ who called me a liar in hearing number one way back in 05! Suddenly attorney number four is all hugs and kisses, and he can't say enough about all he had done to secure me that unlooked for victory. Then he explains the fee petition will be introduced in which he will collect far far more than the $6,000 cap, well we'll just see about that is my response to this parasite, who hadn't done a single thing other than introduce himself to the ALJ.....

A few other things, I have secured an attorney to sue number two for malpractice, and he is going to be going down. I already have established three indisputable facts(they were necessary for the malpractice attorney to accept the case), 1. that he breached his legal obligation to secure all documents necessary to present my case, I hold zero responsibility in this, it was his sworn duty to obtain those files! 2. That the missing records were so crucial that they resulted in a bench decision in under half of an hours time, issued by the very judge who had denied my original claim! 3. That in so doing, he cause me great financial, emotional, and physical calamity!

Don't ever tell me about attorneys, I know that they are for the most part, parasites on the SSDI system, and aside from the miraculous nature of the federal court action, completely unnecessary.

Exactly! Whats more, we are disabled, and we are vulnerable, they rule that we are, then turn about and spring these so-called iron clad legal manipulations on us and as the above poster is attempting to do, say, "you should have known, or you should not have signed it!"

BS I say, but thats not the only issue here, its just the most recent one.

What harm did the SSA cause you ?

Figuratively speaking....In reality all SSA negatives were the direct result of attorney negligence/incompetence.

Sky,

If you want to bring one important fact to someone's attention it's best just to state that point rather than mire your point with tons of other info that is not your point.

It certainly sounds like you've been through a long struggle to get SSDI. That must have been incredibly frustrating. To then discover that an attorney may have taken advantage of you or the situation would infuriate many people. I get that.

Please remember that your experience is not everyone's. Using an attorney or not, during the SSDI approval process is an individual decision that each of us must make. There are names (and they are not generally thought to be complimentary) for those who generalize about all or most of certain groups of people. Attorneys are people too ;).

My attorney was excellent and very easy to deal with. On our first visit, he asked me who my treating physicians were and what their contact info was. Before our next meeting, he called me to say that he was resending a request for info to the one of my docs who still hadn't sent my records and encouraged me to call that doc to "gently remind" him that he was holding up my case. On our second meeting, my lawyer confirmed that we had all of my pertinent medical records then we reviewed the findings that "helped" or might hinder my SSDI application. Like you, my case started with WC, so the SSA got that paperwork too.....the IME docs who made it sound like everything was fine. I would have found it very strange if my attorney had not discussed the medical documentation, as that is what should prove disability. If some of my records were not in my attorney's possession he would have told me, as he did when one of my docs didn't not mail it in after his first request OR it would have become evident when we discussed my medical documentation.

That would be figuratively speaking regarding the earlier attorney issues "hurting" your case.


That would not be figuratively speaking about the SSA doing you harm. So why diss the SSA ?

Stop trying to be cute, you are not going to be treated to the entire history lesson behind my claim, and definitely stop with taking yourself so seriously, if you had legit questions I might try and answer them, but this crap is just childish and knee-jerkrolleyes:

POST #15 Has been edited following this response.

skyking you were the one who made the statement that SSA caused you harm. Finz merely asked you what harm SSA caused you since you put it out there. thats what the board is partly about......learning. if you make a statement that isnt clear, someone may well ask you what you mean. they do that to learn. if you dont want to get into it then dont put it out there. your remarks in your last post to finz were totally uncalled for.

His post was modified after it was first pasted, he must have administrative access or some such. My reply was perfectly appropriate and germane to his apparent point.

Now, so you understand, and perhaps he does too, the reference to SSA having harmed me, was literally a figurative statement, all harm in fact coming from the negligence of the attorneys! I waited ten years for approval, it took me until late 09 to realize just how damaging that attorney negligence had in fact been. Before that realization had been arrived at, I simply accepted at face value that SSA was responsible for most of my situation.

The truth being that in "fact" my attorneys caused me far greater harm then SSA ever did! Get it now? Its a trivial reference that the lawyer fan club herebouts seems to be eccentrically focused upon, when in fact it was just a harmless bit of wordplay, aside from its intended purpose of illustrating the damage done me by my own representation, it is absolutely meaningless, just a harmless reference.

I am going to have to intervene here to remind you of our guidelines about posting respectfully to other members. Even when disagreeing, that should still be done in a way that does not flame others.

Also, when anyone "modifies" ie edits their post here, it leaves an edit line in italics at the bottom. I see no such edit line on the post you referenced. Even when moderators edit, there is an edit line left, and the member you refer to is not on the administrative or moderation team.
So your assertion that is not accurate.

Again, please post within the guidelines or the thread will be closed.