Spinal Fusion??
 

:confused:Hi everyone-

Could I pls get your take on spinal fusion for C3 - C5?

I have tried everything (acupuncture, PT, epidurals, neurotomy, medial branch blocks, and of course meds.) and nothing works. I am taking Vicodin for pain 1 every 4-6 hours and 2 before bedtime so I can sleep (which I'm not). I work fulltime and don't know how much longer I can stand the pain as I cannot concentrate on work. What a way to live! The only thing my Pain Mgmt Doc is offering is to do another neurotomy and I don't want to go through that one again. He thinks maybe it was incomplete. I am almost ready to have spinal fusion at this point but don't know if this would help my constant pain.

Thanks!

(Laminectony L4-L5, and Facet Joint Syndrome)

I share your pain...been through it all too. Here it is 3 am, up and awake, can't sleep....just sick and tired ot it. I wonder what surgery could do too...I want to live again....sleep without pain. Wake feeling ready to start a new day..........

More vicodin please............................

Hi, well welcome to Cervical Pain 101, I had the fusion surgery in 1990 at C5-6, my disc was out and impended into the spinal cord...the Neurosurgeon freaked out when he saw my MRI!! He told me surgery was mandatory for me and not to let anyone slap me on the back or jump off any shipping yard docks, (I was a truck driver at the time). Don't let anyone slap me on the back? Boy oh boy was I dumb back then, he told me that so I wouldn't wind up paralyzed from the neck down, the slap on the back could of sent the disc thru the spinal cord thus cutting it in two piece's....would of been welcome to the world of a quad if that had of happened....I had the surgery and yes its been a lot of pain since then....but I'm walking, and I can move my arms and hands and type and such. I haven't worked full time since then except for a job I did out of my home doing ad's for three years part time. Here's my advice for you two, Suz you need another doctor, chunk the one you have and get a good neuro doctor and a good pain management doctor, Vicodin is for mild short term pain not what you have, and greenjeans it sounds like you need about the same thing, your post isn't very descriptive but close enough...I take Methadone 6 times a day, and a sleeping aid, the regular 10mg Ambein, it works...could use more pain med's though but 6 come close. Suz it sounds like you need a fusion between C3 and C4 and C4 and C5 right? Get ready, it's gonna be painful either way, but I'd be safe and get the surgery, a fusion with two disc in a row will take away a lot of mobility, better get some good pain meds trust me, your gonna need them and most likely do now. You see the difference between Methadone and Vicodin is that Vicodin has the stuff Tylenol has and builds up in your liver over time, not good for long term use and really is a mild pain med, where your Methadone is good for long term use and unlike the Vicodin isn't bad for your liver or other body parts, it has what's called a half life so if you miss a dose it will still be working to ease your pain. Out of everything I've tried its worked the best, and that includes Morphine, Methadone worked better. Once you have it in your system and take it on a regular basis you will feel more pain relief and unlike Vicodin it doesn't mess you up in the thinking dept....hey good luck, and for what it's worth, what I just told you guys took me years to learn thru trial and error and just plain luck of the woods...anyway good luck and keep everyone updated on how you guys works out and what you try.

I share your pain with a c5/6 subluxation or retrolithesis. Sleeping is the worst thing for me especially as a side sleeper. :(

I agree that you should get several opinions before jumping into surgery. Remember surgeons will always say cut her open.

Ruptured disc and went two moths before I gave up and had surgery.Surgery was last resort but could no longer exist not sleeping, laying down or living on pain meds. Last resort, but if you can't function --well I had to.

Surgery Not Bad Thing....
 

Hi, well the surgery was best for you, its not such a bad thing to have the surgery, don't think it is. What could be worst is not having it and waking up without legs or arms....so I think you did a good thing Surazal!!

Solution for spinal cord fusion
 

Dear Thread,
I suffered a fall that caused 2 disks in my neck to severly comprese my spinal cord to the point I had no life with the pain I was in. Due to my extreme fear it took me 11 months interviewing all the top Doctors before I just could not live like that anymore. I thank G-d everyday for finding Dr. Heary. He was voted #1 neurologist for 3 years and has no ego and is amazing. It is now almost 13 months since my surgery and with accupuncture and muscle relaxers I am off almost all my opiods which I was on ALOT. Trust me. He is worth flying into New Jersey for. 973-972-2334 Carmen is his secretary. Not always great at calling back so keep calling. She is great too. Say Audrey S sent you. I am new at this communitie thing and might not find my way back Good luck

I'm with you futurexboy. I had a fusion in 2004 C-6/C-7 but my pain ceased right away. I still have some pain (very minimal), but nothing bad unless my son jumps on my neck or you turn your head too quickly and too far. I blew my disk to pieces with the disc pieces blocking 30-40% of the spinal column and 3 pieces of the disc were imbedded in the spinal cord! Now 2 fusions will certainly limit movement, but the spinal cord is nothing to mess with.

I am on Methadone now, 30mgs a day, (also 3600mgs a day of Neurontin), but its due to severe small fiber neuropathy across the entire surface of my body. I am seeking a pain management doc now cause the 30mgs a day just doesn't do it with my high narcotic tolerance. For me addiction is not an issue since I will need them the rest of my life. The only bad side effects I have with Methadone are constipation, problems starting urination, and it accentuates my existing problems with balance and short-term memory. I tried accupuncture, but it did nothing for my pain, though it was good as short-term sinus relief! lol

Jay

hey suz
 

I agree with having the surgery! I have fusion on c6 in 2005. I had a bulging dics that caused pain and numbness in my fingers. I would do the surgery again. It helped right away take the pain away. I still have 2 bad discs in my neck right above and below my fusion. They are degenrative but not bad enough to do anything about yet. As time has gone on the pain has also. I have done PTand chiro to help me along the way. I CAN NOT take oral meds. I had shoulder sugery in 2009 and had to just take IBP in massive doses cause everything else made me sick. As a result I am now allergic to IBP from all that my system had to take. I just had my first round of facet injections on Monday and have been home since. The ache and pain in my neck and back are terrible. I hurt more now than I did before the shot. Yesterday was the worse, I cried most of the day. I'm so frustrated with myself and the pain that I'm getting depressed. Why Me snydrome! Today is a little better no tears but I'm suppose to start PT today and I'm nervious about that. I don't know if I want anyone touching me at all. Has anyone else had so much pain after their shots and how long did you hurt? I did not feel pain relief right after the shot either. Maybe my problem is not joint pain and they will have to go in and take care of the nerve endings. Not sure how I feel about that option either.
Any advice is appreciated, lunchlady4

I'm a little confused here. The original post/question was over 2-1/2 years ago, as was the last time that person was active on this site. Their decision & outcome is probably (hopefully?) long past.

That said, any kind of spinal surgery is so speculative. I'm very glad that most of the respondents here had good results from their surgeries, but on other forums, I have seen clear majorities of people who weren't so fortunate, and wish they had never had their procedures done. Some have gone through multiple follow-up surgeries over many years to correct earlier ones with no relief.

There is, and I spose will always be, the "What if..." conundrum. If you do get surgery, and it turns out badly, you may always wonder, "What if I hadn't?" and if you don't get surgery, you may always wonder, "What if I had?"...

I don't say this to scare anyone, but to urge anyone considering surgery, especially on the spine, to garner as much information possible, both pro & con, (especially success statistics & ratios) and make the best informed decision they can. Surgery should always be a last resort, subject to second (or more) opinions - it can't be "undone."

In my own case, I was in so much pain I was very willing to consider surgery. But my own surgeon advised against it (encouraging multiple opinions, and some were willing to risk it, always disclaiming, "no guarantees") because statistically, the number of people who were better off after that particular procedure was LESS than the number of people who were the same or worse. I didn't like those odds.

Instead, he advised pain management and natural healing. In time, the vertebrae (c5-c7) would fuse on their own, without the risk of doing more damage and causing more pain. Do I wonder, "What if...?" Sometimes. But I also wonder how much worse I could/might be if I had rushed into the "quick fix". I am still in a lot of pain, but some healing has occured, and as time has passed, other changes - some good - some not-so-good, but I honestly can't say, all things considered, that I regret my negative decision. One day, techniques may improve, and with them, the success ratios.

Relating personal experiences is good; I'm not so sure about making recommendations in cases like this - every case is so different, and as in this case, the numbers may be skewed. I would, again, urge each patient to ask and determine those kinds of risks for themselves.

Doc

fused
 

Just found this thread, hope someone is about. I was fused Aug.30th C3-7 and the surgery worked for me. For the first time in 7 years, I have a good reduction of pain. I am reducing my morphine in stages through my PPP. This is a ruff surgery, but it is worth it in my opinion. Ginnie

I know
 

When I first had ther fusion at l4-L5 it hurt like hell but seemed to help but 22 years later i'm rite back where it all started but in more pain then ever. Personally ask around make sure the surgeon gives you all the pros and cons I'm sure medicine has eveloved in the last 20 years but it still can't turn off my pain.

NO NO NO NO cervical fusion, u will be sorry

Also considering fusion...
 

Hi, This is all a little new to me. I understand your frustration so well.

I just realized a few months ago that surgery may be appropriate for me or as they seem to say in medical circles I am "a candidate".

I have what I guess is called a Triple Major Scoliosis but my PT just told me I have both Idiopathic and Degenerative Scoliosis and I am now trying to figure out what that means. She also said that my three curves are all under 45 degrees and the problem really is in the lumbar spine (surprise!) where I seem to have three discs that have what she calls "Spondo" (Spondolisthesis). The literature seems to suggest that this is sometimes/often a result of untreated scoliosis over time (Gee, thanks mom!). I have also heard it said that our bodies were never really designed to accommodate our standing upright which is a strange thing to think about. Usually creatures opt for evolutionary changes that will enhance their survivability but if there were divine intervention that left us potentially suffering with spine problems that is pretty interesting (Don't want to open Pandoras Box, just wondering). I am sure most of us have at one time wondered why God is doing "this" to us. I know I have but watching videos of people with 80 percent curves and also terrible diseases silenced me. I guess it builds character but it sure does bear down on you sometimes.

A few days ago my right foot started throbbing with pain but there was no pain in that leg so that suggests that it is probably not stemming from my spine...is it just garden variety arthritis I wonder now. What fracking next!!!! It seems to come and go. It would be nice to have one dependable leg, one or the other.

A friend said maybe it is because that leg is bearing a heavier load because I am now limping on the left one due to lumbar "Spondo" which is also why I have these really horrid muscle spasms mostly at night. Last night for the first time I had the muscle spasms in the back of both legs. I was raking a lot in the yard yesterday (Aren't we supposed to get some exercize?). Maybe that was the result. Don;t know if you have the muscle spasms, if not consider yourself really fortunate.

I also take Hydrocodone (Vicodin, 5/325). You can take two if you really need to but be careful not to lose the theraputic effect by taking too many. Also there is this strange neuro loop where you actually feel more pain if you become dependent on the narcotic pain medications. I do not understand this phenomenon well but it is good to try to get a grasp of it to help yourself.

I also have SOMA, Clonezepam and Piroxicam that I can take if I need to. And I take a low dose aspirin every morning and evening. The SOMA and the tranquilizers tend to make you sleepy so not a good option for work or driving generally but really helpful at home. Also the SOMA used to help but not so much anymore. I have no idea why.

If you can get yourself to a pool swimming is amazing...it strengthens your muscles, is non weight bearing and is very healling. Depending on where your live, if you do not have a private or community pool the YMCA and some gyms have them, also High School Pools are often open for free and/or lap swim in the summer. I promise it will make you feel better. Keep moving. You don't have to climb mountains but by refocusing your attention you block the sense of pain and free endorphins, etc.

In my case it seems that I might not have to have a whole body fusion but maybe just lumbar. I meet with the Director of the Neuro Inst. that has ordered a lot of studies recently...I am looking forward to this meeting,,,sort of but it is scary. I find that a little dark chocolate, and either some warm milk or port help me to sleep (Until I wake with leg cramps that is!). My poor dog is very concerned...I start howling in the middle of the night and he looks at me like he has no idea what is wrong. He is A Great Dane/hound hybrid and has those intense hound eyes...he seems to be thinking, "Hey mom, I am the one that is supposed to howl, not you!").

Sometimes I have muscle spasms in my abdomen, in my hands, and once a couple of days ago at the base of my tongue! God, am I going to choke to death on my tongue because of muscle spasms related to my nerves! What a way to go! So you see, you are not doing too badly relatively speaking.

I was really disappointed in what the pain mgt doctor I saw told me also. I do not understand it. Finally he told me that after I have all the tests and see all the physicians I am scheduled to see he wants me to come back and bring me the "studies" and reports and then we will decide what to do about my pain. It is very frustrating when your pain grows deeper with every month that passes. A couple of glasses of red wine at dinner helps also and sometimes a sleeping pad and if you have a TENS unit.

If you have not read through all the posts on the various websites where people address and discuss these issues you should think about doing that. I have found it very helpful even though there is an understandable degree of complaining that you have to muddle through. People need to vent and it is sometimes hard to hear over and over but it is part of sharing our stories and bringing them to life. I actually download the posts and go through them in WORD and edit out what is not relevant and maybe highlight what is. I have found this really helpful and I can go back to these documents in my own files for reference.

You might also want to see a different pain mgt doctor for a second opinion. Unfortunately, because of the serious problem with the misuse of drugs and inappropriate writing of perscriptions on the part of some doctors the pressure is on responsible doctors to not prescribe strong pain medications.

I have also realized that for me Acetemenaphen (sp?) does absolutely nothing for me but Ibuprophen does help. A friend said it is because the later has anti inflamation properties. Anything that can relax you and your muscles and reduce inflamation is probably going to help you and you may have to develop your own combination of therapies until you sort through the surgery question.

I have noticed that several people have said that surgery is not done to relieve pain but to address symptoms and halt progression, etc. We have to ask ourselves how much pain we are really in, what can be done to control is without surgery and remember that there is no going back once it has been done. It is a lot to think about.

Finally, you might want to consult another surgeon for a second opinion. If you are in the LA area you might consult with Nitan Batia at UC Irvine or David Fish at UCLA (He has office hours in Santa Monica and I think he is on the faculty as well).

Keep the faith!

Yes, we're suposed to get some exercise, but in moderation.

It's possible to become tolerant of, and/or dependent on, SOMA and/or Clonazepam too; it could be the same effect you've just described. It's also possible that you're experiencing a rebound effect of one, or a combination, of your meds.

Several of the symptoms you've described could be ascribed to medication rebound or dependence.

Dependence, in and of itself, is not necessarily bad, and is not restricted to pain medications. It's a tradeoff for the lessening of suffering and improvement in quality of life for many people with chronic conditions.

Doc

Why havn't they tried a stimulator mine has been the only way i could live. ask about one before fusion I have been able to put the fusion of my c-6 t1 for the past 5 years with the stimulators.

Hi, I tried everything you did but acupuncture. I was 47 at the time and had the best job of my life. I talked to several people who had spinal fusion and they had great results, so i thought why not. I wanted to get back to work as soon as I could. I had c-5-6-7 plated, after the operation I had more pain than I ever had. After about three years of all kinds of pain meds my pain mang. Dr. suggested a spinal stimulator, well that only stayed in for about an hour. It was stimulating my legs, I had neck and arm pain! I went to see three different spine specialist and not a one would operate again. So now wear a fental patch and take oxycodone, they take the edge off the pain but I don't know the last day I did not have pain! I don't know what to tell you but spinal fusion is not allways the answer, I wish I didn't have it done! All the best to you and yours!

Hi Suz
 

I cannot tell you no, not to do this. Each case is different. What is important is that you go for quite a few different doctors, including a neuro surgeon. What you MRI says, usually is the deciding factor. It helps if you research all the words in your MRI. I had a failed fist surgery at C6-7. I had the domino effect, but was not told at the time of my first fusion that more was wrong with my neck. NOT informed. so I had a second C3-7. Surgery can and does work. It is not a blanket yes or no. It is based on the severity of your condition. I am much better, with no shooting pain down the arms. I am not perfect, the surgery WAS horrible pain wise, but I am glad I did it. So many things factor into your decision. That education is the best thing to arm yourself with. If your MRI says "mild" "moderate" perhaps this surgery isn't the best idea. However if it says the words "serious" or "accute" or "severe" then you are getting to the point you need further investigation to see if surgery is a right course of action. Be your own best advocate and ask all the questions you possiblly can. Find out the condition of the verterbre above and below the proposed surgical site. Those vertrebre need to be healthy and strong to support the hardware. Let me know if you have some questions, I will try and help you. surgery can and is something to think about, and good outcomes can happen. It did for me. ginnie:hug:

Seeking input on first lumber fusion
 

HI,

I originally posted on NeuroTalk about three weeks ago but only two people responded to say "hi" and "welcome". I do not know why no one else had any advice, but maybe I posted to wrong thread.

Anyway, since you had lumbar fusion I wondered if you could advise me at all. I need fusion on I believe L2-L3-L4 and one other, maybe S1, need to look at the radiologist report. I have triple major scoliosis (progression is under 40 and I think stable). I also have spondolisthesis diagnosed in 2011. I believe this in in lumbar spine and worst in two discs. I have a lot of tightness in my low back when I try to do anything more than 20-30 minutes. In January I started limping and this really scared me and it hurt. I learned that this is related to the lumbar spine issues. I also began to have really terrifying muscle spasms in my legs (both, but mostly the left leg where the limp is) and even my abdomen). This also is evidently related to the body trying to compensate for the pathology.

I was told that I should have the fusion done by Dr. Sigurd Bevard at UC San Francisco and that there were only two surgeons in the country that I should ask to do the surgery. I think the other is at the Cleveland Clinic. I wondered if anyone has gone to Dr. Bevard. Also, I sent an email to Dr. Nitin Bhatia at UC Irvine and he replied saying he wants me to come to consult with a spine surgeon they recruited from UCSF who worked with Dr. Berven there. Since I live in Southern CA getting to San Francisco would be more complicated than getting to Irvine (Although more fun!). I would go by train so I could lay down. If I lie on my back I still have Sacral pain. Only laying on my side offers relief. Pillows are wonderful!

Also, I really have no one at home after so will need to manage by myself (unless Medicare would pay for someone to visit a couple of times a week and maybe for physical therapy). Has anyone managed on their own following this surgery? I do have my two dogs to help me (A Great Dane and an Anatolian Shepherd). :-)

I wonder what it is like to have 4 discs fused? I wonder how much post op pain there might be and how long it would be until I recovered. Would they put some sort of brace on me?

I was diagnosed with Major Depression and anxiety in 2000 and since then when I have had a surgery I feel like they have not given me enough pain medication. I worry that when people have Depression they will not give you enough pain medication which is a terrible sort of discrimination.

Also, I went to an Anesthesiologist recently and he told me that the only thing they could do for me was given me a cortisol injection. I did that once a few years before and not only did it not help at all but the doctor doing the injection told me he did not feel comfortable doing it because of my curved spine.

Only once was I given enough pain medication and that was at UC Irvine in 2009. I wonder if anyone else has had this experience with pain management. They give you these nice little illustrated pamphlets that discuss how they understand the role of pain alleviation in healing but it seems that the application of that philosophy is very subjective.

Since 2003 I have been taking the same medications for pain: Hydrocodone, Piroxicam and SOMA. No one has ever increased the dose, or asked me if I needed more and I have not asked thinking that my continuing degeneration and discussion of pain levels would have prompted an increase or change in pain medication. I thought methadone was only for drug addicts. I do not really know what it is or does. I think I will ask about it.

Any thoughts or advice would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

Hello skygardener
 

I am sorry if I missed your postings. I try to visit as much as I can to welcome people to Neuro Talk. Most all of us on the site have some form of disability we are dealing with. I have had so many appts. lately, time for NT has been limited. I do want to welcome you and address some of your fears and concerns. Going for another opinion like you are doing is vital. I think that is the very best thing to do. Your symptoms do sound like they are due to lumbar problems. If you post your MRI, and need more help in understanding it, others will help you for sure. Lisa is the best in that regard, as she has done alot of research.
I have cervical issues, and have had two spinal fusions. The last was C3-7. I have a few sugestions. You will need help at home. Please get some kind of help in, a neighbor, a friend, church member and discuss this issue with your doctor. For me, pain was extreme for the first two weeks, and I didn't get around so good. i too had the curve in my neck, and that was straightened out at the time of these fusions. I was NOT able to tend to myself. Medicare/medicaid may provide some kind of help in, I would sure inquire.
Before you do the surgery, please investigate the condition of the vertrebre above and below the site to be surgically corrected. It is important that these vertrebre are in good shape. All hardware puts strain on the ones above and below. Ask your surgeon specifically about this. This happened to me, where the ones above and below did not do so well, and further surgery was needed. It is called the domino effect.
Prepare ahead of time, with good nutrition that is ready made at home. There are also wash cloths for adults, for washing that are water free for the first days you are home, and may not want to get into the shower etc. It helped me to stay feeling clean. Talk over all your pain medications carefully. I did not feel I got adequate pain control either in the hospital or at home. If you have a pain specialist, make sure they are on the same page as your surgeon. I had trouble with these two doctors of mine communicating. You will not want to walk you dogs. DO think about putting them in a facility for a few days, or get someone in to walk them for you.
Because you are at multi level of fusions, plus a curve of the spine, it is a tough surgery. I did need alot of help. I was lucky to have the friends on hand to give me help. Please try to get yourself help while you are home that first week. I wish I were your neighbor, I would be there for you. I do wish you all the best in this surgery. I hope it turns out OK. My surgery did turn out OK and I am glad I went though it. Pain is much much less than it was. if you need anything, or research, please don't hesitate to contact me. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. ginnie

Pain management
 

Hi Suz...I also take Hydrocodone and have been taking it since 2003 (.5/325) every six hours "as needed". I try to taper off now and then as I can to keep the theraputic effect as high as possible. Now it just is not enough and I am taking two which I rarely did before. What I have had to do is drink wine, usually red wine in the evening instead so I will not take too much. Also I noted that Ibuprophen has anti-inflamatory properties and sometimes I take that and it helps a lot more than the Acetempenaphen they combine with the Vicodin. Why don't they combine the Vicodin with the Ibuphrophen I wonder. Anyway here are some less controversial things I am doing (but I am very new to this discussion so this will probably not be very helpful:

1. Heating pad
2. TENS unit
3. Swimming
4. In addition to medication, re-focus and/r distract your mind. This sounds like nonsense when you are in real pain but even then it does help, maybe not on its own, but it really does help. I write and paint but if you play piano or guitar, anything really that you enjoy. Someone told me to keep a daily journal and first thing every morning just write three pages, stream of consciousness...nonsense or whatever, just keep your hand moving, what ever comes into your mind. It seems to be a kind of venting and this really helps also. Sometimes when you go back a week or two later and read (after letting the writing "age" a little, it can be really insightful. Imagine it is your inner child in pain and crying out for attention (Isn't that what the body is doing, really?). By writing you give attention and voice to that inner child or inner "bones" or whatever.
5. I believe that taking calcium, Glucosamine/Chrondritin (sp?) and other supplements also helps but in more subtle ways.
6. I also have Clonezepam and sometimes that seems to help...anything that helps you relax...Chamomile tea

I guess I really believe that it is a whole spectrum of things that help...not just a couple of drugs sort of thing. The other thing is...for me, I have just lived with the pain...try to ignore it, do Yoga and meditate. Use all the tools available to you and take control to the extent you can. If you feel like a victim, defeated, that will amplify your pain so be a warrior. :-)

:o

Thank Ginnie, I appreciate the suggestions. Some people say you should have a neurologist and orthopedic surgeon participating in procedure, or a neurologist rather than an orthoepedic surgeon. I guess I will ask about that when I go for my consultation later in June. This may sound like a silly question but how do I post my MRI? I see how to add files but since it is on a disc how would I do that? I also have a SPEC CT scan which is really scary but interesting. Maybe you refer to the radiology reports rather than the images. In that case I could scan those but would want to make them private I think....what have others done?

Again, thanks so much. Unfortunately I recently moved here and do not know people well yet except for church and the people in my church have already offered to help...it is so hard to accept! My family...all are thousands of miles away in different directions and mostly have to work...such is life in the 21st century!

Take care,

Chiropractic???? no, no, no....
 

Dear lunchlady, Maybe your situation is different but I was told by my physical therapist that I was NEVER to go to a chiropractor under any circumstances. I wonder who sent you to a Chiropractor rather than a physical therapist. If anything I would think it should be in reverse order but I am just learning about all of this so I defer to others.

BTW I have this great thing that helps with my neck when it feels like my head weighs 200 pounds! It is a think soft spongy thing that wraps around your neck and connects with velcro (Mine has leopard print!). It also has an on/off switch and will vibrate and so massage the neck. It really helps me but I do not (yet) have degenerative issues in my neck.

Of course you feel depressed, how could you not. If you have not been given antidepressants ask for them (Maybe from some doctor other than the one that sent you to a Chiropractor!). With depression...it is like quicksand...you have to not panic and give in to despair...you must relax and stay, in that way, on the surface of it. It is a cruel deamon. You must remain vigilant and outwit it. Or think of it like an undertow at the beach...instead of trying to fight it or panic, relax and "swim" along the shore until it breaks and you can return to land (come out of the depression). Most people do not have chronic depression, rather it is related to a condition like your cervical spine issue.

One day at a time...one hour at a time. :o

Hi skygardener
 

Good idea, get both of those to address your back issues, both fields of medicine. I did the same thing, and found them to be on the same page, so I knew the surgery was right for me. As far as posting the MRI. Jo*Mar, one of the moderators I would contact. I am horrible on the PC and still flounder around a bit. Should be able to click on one of the moderators names to ask her. May try posting on the front threads again, to get more attention on the how too's of this. wish I were better at it. There is a way to put the MRI up, and alot of people just write it all out like as list for others to read. Leesa is real good at this, and Mrs.D and Doc. Smith. If you have trouble getting directions, contact me and I will write to the modertor for help.
ACCEPT help from the church. Yes, very good idea. Even if this is hard and embarassing to do. We are all the human family and need each other. Let them extend their hands to you. Take care of the dogs etc.....
Do you have a side potty chair? or are close to bathroom? This may help those first days too. since yours is lumbar, you may want a walker as well. Mine was Cervical, so I just walked stiff and upright.
I used one of those gently sloping pillows to keep my back and neck straight.
I also did all the doctors told me to do....keep wound dry. There are bandages to put over incision site that will allow bathing after a time. They keep the incision site dry. Somebody can apply that to your back for you.
My wound was in the front of my neck so I had no issue with that.
Don't hesitate just to write out your MRI or CT report. Someone will help with that interpretation stuff. I also can look up what I don't understand and help you too. Once the language of it is understood, it isn't quite as scarry.
Do go for those two different fields of medicine, that really is the best way to feel at ease with your decision, when more than one doctor agrees on the same procedures. take care, I will be here, and so will NT ginnie

Hi lunch Lady
 

If the shots make you worse, don't do them. I had several that did that, and the pain specialist then changed to a different one, a katamine infusion. That did give relief. Not all injections are the same, and some do really help. Look up on the internet what injections are done for your situation, and maybe ask to try something else. don't give up. I sure know about that kind of pain, and I am sorry you are in tears. Hope you get the relief you need. I do take medications, have to for quality of life. I will be thinking about you too. All of us with back issues should keep in touch with each other for support, none of it is easy to go through. All my best to you lunch lady, get some more help. ginnie

Hi hhahn
 

Sorry your fusion didnt turn out so good. I still take meds too, but the C3-7 did help a bit. Not going to be perfect, but it did stop the pain running down my arms. wish that you had a better outcome. It is so hard when folks have to face this and make a decision. some get better, others do not. I wish there was an advanced way to predict the ones with better outcomes.
I took a chance like you did. I really do feel sad for all of us with spinal issues. ginnie

Hi Skygardener, Welcome back...

We chronic pain patients are subjected to a lot of stigmas; I'm sure you've experienced/figured that out by now. There are many possible reasons for your post-surgical pain being undertreated. They may be concerned about medication interactions between any antidepressants, anxiety (benzodiazepines), or other meds you may be on, and pain medications. Or they may be concerned/fearful of an overdose - either accidental, or intentional during a bout/period of deep Depression. Also, there is a Pain Crisis going on right now that is having effects on the way doctors and health professionals do their jobs. It's a very complicated situation that often doesn't make sense. If you're interested, google: politics of pain

Yes, undertreated post-surgical pain is affecting many patients. One thing you can do (that may be mentioned in those nice little illustrated pamphlets :rolleyes:) is contact/make use of the hospital's Patient Advocate. Also get a copy of the hospital's, or California's, Patient Bill of Rights.

Unless patients speak up, doctors assume that everything is fine, including the amount of pain medications they're taking/prescribed. In some cases, patients must initiate discussions lest doctors be construed as "pushing". We have to be our own advocates in this, and most other respects.
Google: talk doctor pain

By all means, ask your doctor about it, and (in keeping with being your own advocate) look into it yourself. I will mention that, like all medications, methadone has its own side effects and risks. While it is an excellent longterm and long-acting medication for chronic pain, unfortunately it can also carry a stigma; many medical professionals who should know better still associate it with addicts/addiction as well. This is changing, but change is sometimes slow.
Google: methadone and methadone for chronic pain

Regarding a few items in your subsequent posts:

They do; the trade name is Vicoprofen. Ask your doctor.

When Ginnie suggested posting your MRI, I think she meant the interpretation/report. It may be possible to post the MRI itself, but I have never seen it (I have seen x-rays posted) and I don't know that it would be anymore helpful than the report. Also, you mentioned a lack of advice/responses to this thread. These kinds of posts & discussions usually occur in the Spinal Disorders & Back Pain forum. More folks with experience/knowledge/wisdom regarding matters of the spine may see it/respond there.

Lastly, your shared experiences, advice, and wisdom have been wonderful; thank you, and again, welcome back.

Doc

Re: another way toward pain management
 

I had to get another pain specialist, for a number of reasons. I wasn't getting enough help either. If you can try to find a pain specialist that also is a Board Certified Physiatrist. This is a "whole" body mind and soul kind of doctor. I not only got help with better pain mangement, she put me on hold for surgery till I am stronger, got me another referral for my ankle issues, and addressed my body on a cellular level. found her to be extremely compassionate, and educated beyond most doctors I have known. This training they receive is beyond just MD. You may want to see of you can find a doctor with this training. Just an idea.....ginnie

Thanks Ginnie, I will try to post at least the MRI and CT radiologist reports if not the image files. I did get a bit of (relatively) good news...they are going to have an orthopedic spine specialist and a neurosurgeon present at my surgery and evidently a 6-pk of residents as well! I do think now that no matter how much I learn about this or how many people I have holding my hand I will still be fearful. Maybe I could just take a very long nap after....perhaps they could put me in a coma for six months and just rotate my body so the muscles don't shrivel up and blow away! Wouldn't that be great...

Appreciate your encouragement so much.

Hi Skygardner
 

That is good news, about that many doctors looking at your reports. The more that look at it the better! I so know about that fear. That is why I found this site too. I was so sick with fear I was nauseated most of the time. I would indeed hold your hand if I could. None of it is fun or easy to consider. You have friends here, that will help you cope. Two days after my surgery, even in some pretty bad pain, I did type a few sentances to NT. I was so surprised to find so many people who were thinking about me during the proceedure, and they were there for me after also. You are doing all the right things. ginnie:hug:

i was just told i need fusion in my lower lumbar and in my neck.. i hve four herniated discs in my neck along with a buldgin disc. i am really afraid.. please i need advice i cant take the pain anymore. the meds i am on seem to stop working every so often and i just cant do it anymore. i hve two pinched nerves. I am afraid.. please some words of incouragement

i was recammended to have the surgery and i am new to this site i am wondering what is the differnece from posterior and anterior.. which is better for you with a quicker healing time. I have four herniated discs in my neck along with a buldging disk that is putting pressure on my nerve and i have bad headaches along with neck pain and my arm is a whole other story. He also said that i would need fusion in my lower back due to that pinched nerve that is causing me sciatica and alot of pain and numbness. They did the rf on me in my lower back already and it eased some of the pain but not all. I am really afraid of this i have small children and i am a single mom.

I'll leave the rest of your question to some-one with more knowledge than myself, but I can answer this part.

Anterior means you lie on your back for an operation. They cut you through your abdomen and they work from the front.

Posterior means the opposite. You lie on your stomach and they operate from the back.

Good luck if you decide to go through with the operation.