"Dawson's Fingers" on MRI
 

If you really want to rest your mind, I would go for the LP.

NO it is not painful. You might get a headache, but if you do as the docs say it will go away. I know that when I had my LP I did get a headache, but as soon as I lay down it went away.

You have to rest, rest, rest.

My neuro said the same to me way back when. He told me that I had leissions (sp?) in the corpus callosum, and just a few neuro illness did this and MS was one of them. I had approx 22 leissons, he did not want to any invasive procedures, he was 100% sure. BUT the MS neuro said, NOOOOOOOOOO, must do LP and what ever else to confirm. bottom line. yep I had it.

But no the LP was OK. Do not listen to any scare stories. I would guess that you would always wonder...........what if?

I should look at my first MRI and see if I can the Dawsons Fingers on mine.

Sorry for your DX, but on the good side, it was quick. That way you can get on a CRAB asap.

All the best.

Definitely get the LP...it's not that bad. I had a bad experience in that the dr doing it had to have 2 goes at it before she got it in (the first time was tried without an anesthetic) but even with all of that it was fine. I didn't get a headache, my back was a bit sore for a few days, but if you want to be sure it is worth doing. Good luck!

I agree, if you want more testing then talk to your neuro.

What you read about Dawson's fingers is correct - it is a hallmark sign for MS :(

Have you gotten a second opinion? Maybe another doc will concur and you can put your mind at rest and avoid the LP :o

I was diagnosed immediately as well, but my neuro still requested that I do total blood work up and LP and some other stuff. His MO the first year of diagnosis is to continue to look for other potential ailments just to be sure his diagnosis is correct - every once in a while he still asks me to do some additional testing or see a specialist for something else just to be sure.

I can't imagine being in limbo for years, but sometimes I wonder if I might have handled my initial diagnosis better if I had not been blindsided. I accepted the diagnosis initially then a few weeks later I was certain I was misdiagnosed and was being treated incorrectly. You should do what ever will put your mind at ease about your diagnosis it makes moving forward easier.

IMHO, I would not ever consent to an LP if I had clear and obvious signs of MS on the MRI like Dawson's Fingers. My first neuro would not have ever put me through an LP if my MRI was conclusive.

An LP is an invasive procedure not without risks. For those who said it isn't painful, I would have to disagree. Not everyone has a painless LP. Check out Gazelle's thread entitled "So Not Happy" if you want to see several stories of LP's that weren't easy: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=38801

My own LP wasn't nearly as bad as a lot of people experienced, but it was bad enough that I will not consent to another one unless there is a darn good reason to do it.

I know that it must be really hard to be blindsided with this dx, but rest assured that, in time, you will adjust to it and things will level off.

Not doubting at all, sadly
 

Despite the Dawson Finger effect going on in my brain, they had me do some of the other tests to rule out mimics. Mainly due to the small number of leisons. It was time and space from changes in my MRIs and Clinicals that cinched my dx.

LOL, it wasn't until he told me I was dx'd what type of leisons I had. I was like, "who's fingers are in my brain?". :)

I did the LP under Fluroscopy (sp?). It wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it was still one of the most unpleasent experiences I've ever had.

:hug: Totally understand what you're feeling. There are days I wish they could take this back.

Hang in there!

Keri, I happen to be one of those (few) who got dx'd without lesions but had a positive LP. So, my experience wasn't like yours :o

I don't usually discuss my LP - it was not a good experience but I had mine done in the dark ages :rolleyes: Not only did I have the LP but right after that I had a Myleogram....WooHoo! What fun.....NOT!

I had a LP and other than knowing a needle was "back there", had no problems. Neuro got in 1st try, didn't know then it could cause a headache or pain, When it was over, it was over, period. Found it like a pregnancy Epidermal (do they effect some?) That's just me. Walking hurts me.

Morning Keri,
Wow, quick dx for you! Dawson's fingers are pretty much all you needed :(

Your post got me thinking about getting a fast dx. That must have been very traumatic. One day all is normal, the next your world was filled with MS. That must have been very difficult. When people are in limbo, they have months or years to consider this....and maybe even come to accept what it could be.

The vast range of emotions you must have felt, and are still feeling must have been so hard, and maybe still are. The disbelief. I'm so sorry that you got hit out of the blue like that.

Thank you so much for sharing your story today....it really put some things into perspective that I hadn't thought about before. I hope and pray that your current flair finds the door real soon....and all can get back to 'normal'....at least this time and maybe for years to come. I can hope that for you anyway :hug:

I think your observations speak to so many points, but I'll try to narrow my answer to the ones that no one else has touched much on yet . . . .

MS mimics so many diseases, both in symptoms and testing. There are several conditions that have lesions and/or similar LP results, so what they are looking for is a combination of factors.

Even if they suspect MS, there is a protocol that must be met in order to give the dx. They look at our symptoms (c/w description), history, clinical neurological testing, combined with MRI, LP, EP, etc testing. Depending on the results of all that (sometimes glaring), we may get an unofficial "possible", "probable", or definite dx. Most often though, TIME (usually months, occasionally years) is what cinches the dx for many people though.

Regarding how "easily" you (and others) have gotten the dx vs. how difficult it is for others . . . that speaks to the point of how lesions aren't the end-all, be-all with this disease. They are important in the dx process, but that's about the extent of it. I know people who've had almost all the symptoms of MS for many years, and some are in much worse shape then me, but they have very few (or no) tell-tale lesions. :confused: There are others that have the dx and lots of lesions, but they make out fairly good in the long run.

I have also heard of many people who's MRI looks great after being on a certain drug, but they continue to decline physically. Relapses (or lack thereof) do not correlate directly with the long-term prognosis on disability either (although they can make life difficult at the time we experience them).

There are sometimes obvious factors that make the dx fairly easy, like dawson's fingers. As Snoopy said, these are "hallmark" for MS, and I don't think this result points to ANY other disease/condition. Many of us do not present with things in such a nice, neat little package . . . but that doesn't mean others without these exact findings won't progress with the disease in the same way, better, or worse.

It was a slam-dunk for you, and you are going to continue to go through the grieving (denial, bargaining) for the next long while. You will also go through it again and again, as things change along the journey. I don't know how many times I've done that process now, when things get rough and I fear for what my new future holds . . . then I settle back to where I was before, or I accept the changes that I now have to live with. Low and behond, 2 - 24 months, I regain some functionality again . . . then I am on a high till the next time I go through it. It's a roller coaster, for sure.

You can't really compare yourself to anyone, cause we all seem to have our own journey. What works for some, is killer for others. All that we can do is share our experiences and try different things to see what works for us as individuals.

Cherie

Keri, you have gotten some really good advice today...I think you owe it to yourself to have all the bloodwork done to catch any mimics. I don't care whose fingers are in your brain! :rolleyes: Get the neuro to run all the bloodwork! :)

However, I am one of the ones who says skip the LP, unless you have to have it!!! I agree with your neuro! Who in the world WANTS an LP!!! Not me! I did it once, no bad side effects (cause I wasn't moving afterwards unless there was a fire in the room!), my doctor did it (the only one I trusted) and I won't ever do it again! Eeeek! :eek:

I agree with Bird. Who want an LP?

:eek:

It's not THE most dreaded non surgical procedure for nothin, lol.

I had mine with no guided x ray - silly me -and still it was a piece of cake. Couldn't have been better. But I know it's not always like that. I am not doing another one. I'll stay in limbo forever, thank you, if that's what I have to do.

And about limbo...while it stinks, it IS better IMHO than to be blindsided like that. 5 yrs and counting. Plenty of time to think about it.

no LP for me...
 

With any luck . . . NEVER! :hug:

For me it was when I had to make the decision to leave the workforce. :(

Cherie

:hug: It never feels real for me. Even with all the shots, etc. No matter how many times I've heard, "yep, you have MS" from docs.

Then again, I'm still learning to deal with this thing. I have been through the cycle of grief a lot this past year. Somehow I manage to keep going. My hubby says it's cuz I'm stubborn.

When does it feel real? For me, when I accepted MS is now a part of me....before then I was flaying in the wind while MS kept knocking me down....

For someone who isn't really religious at all, I turned to prayer big time. And at some point I had to let someone bigger than me take over.

Keri, I know that you were blindsided big time. And I have read all your threads and posts. I have advised you in several threads to not lay there, go get a second opinion. Your Dx, from every thing you say, doesn't seem right to me. You may in fact have MS. Your doc may be really really good. The first doc to ever tell me I had MS was YEARS ago and she was an internist with the worst bedside manners I ever saw. Needless to say I left her, but it took YEARS after she said this for me to be dx... So your neuro may be like her, but you still need to have all the bloodwork done....please ask him to at least do this....

I'd hate to know I was dx with an uncurable disease, when I actually had a curable one.

Peace.

Hi Keri
I know you have had many responses to your post already, but I couldn't resist responding. I have had an MRI...which did show Dawson's fingers...or I was told 'evidence of'. I was told by my 2nd neurologist, who is supposed to be a renowned specialist in MS....that dawson's fingers are NOT a clincher in diagnosing MS. In 50% of cases where these lesions appears, women will develop MS. I also had an LP which was painless! Into my 3rd week of a week waiting period for the results. I have been told that even if the oligoclonal banding shows on the test, that can't necessarily clinch a diagnosis.......so frustrating!!!!! So, I have been told it comes down to a judgement call???
My symptom that triggerred this investigation was optic neuritis in my right eye...I have been diagnosed with an inflammatory retinal disease since I was 17....I am now 35.
So yes, this limbo is hell....but does it ever end? This doctor I saw last week told me that the only definitive way to diagnose MS is through post mortem biopsy.

Interestingly....with dawson's fingers showing...I have been told by the same specialist that many people go through their whole lives and upon post mortem autopsy, dawson's fingers have been found.

I don't know if it is better or worse knowing....not knowing, there is still hope. Knowing....you get to take some action to try and put yourself into remission.

I'm rambling now:p.....this is all so fresh for me...needing to vent I guess.
Best of luck to you.

Sandra




I'm sorry - I guess I should've been more clear -

I don't have "true" doubts - maybe I was being more sarcastic or grim than anything. I know my dx is correct. Yes, I've had 2nd and 3rd opinion. My neuro laughed when I first asked about the LP - he was like why in the heck would I want that! I know there is no need for that whatsoever. I think I was just mulling over :Ponder: - Gee, wouldnt it be nice if that could disconfirm this for me?! I know it doesnt even work that way anyhow.

I know that the Dawsons Fingers that they saw was basically the neon sign flashing on my MRI that said "MS: Vacancy here" that allowed the dx to be made so quickly and easily....thus, no doubts here or there or anywhere. Green eggs and ham said Sam I am.

I was just curious how many had similar experiences where the MRI was so glaring like that - b/c even tho many people have posted that they have positive MRI results with many lesions - they are technically still in limbo - which is what got me thinking, "huh?" - and then I remembered about the Dawsons Fingers thing....how it takes more than just holes in the brain. :eek:

My friends have been teasing me - that I can't just do things normally - everything has to be over-the-top, over achiever that I am.... :cool: even with MS - can't be simple about it.... nah, nope.... I have to have too many lesions to count, they have to be bigger than the usual few mms (mine are over 1.5cms)....dx within 2 hrs, dr thinks its one of the rarer rapidly progressing forms, blah blah blah...etc etc etc. Yep, that's me. Have to be different. LOL :icon_eek:

Hey, at least I'm consistent, even with my MS!

~Keri




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hi keri,

i still remember how shocked i was when my MS dx was confirmed. and i had been having tests for wks before. i knew i was being worked up for MS but still i was shocked, and i'm an RN!

so i understand how you feel. it takes a while for that to wear off.
don't shoot me :eek:. i've learned to take things one, ok, maybe two, days at a time. i try not to think ahead. no one, even healthy people know what the future holds. all you can do is work hard to get the MS under control and live one day at a time.

the hardest thing i had to come to grips with was to listen to my body.
i know what my limits are and what happens if i try to push past them. visual disturbances and extreme weakness/fatigue.

you might even consider journaling. it really helps to clarify your feelings. and somehow getting it on paper is cathartic.

and, you might even consider some counseling. it's very helpful for me to be able to "detox" and talk to someone about what's happening in my life.

i hope your exacerbation levels off soon and you feel better.
we're here for you.

This is an old thread from February of Keri's.......Lavender must have found it on the Net..

Welcome to NeuroTalk, Lavender/Sandra, Nice to meet you...Come on in and join the fun..:)

Thanks, Sally :). I thought I was having deja vu or that somehow I imagined that Keri had HiCy treatment :D.

Hi Keri :)

I too was tested 5 years ago. I was having numbness in the left side of my face, neck and body pain, horrific vision and so on. I had MRI's done with and with out contrast dye of the C spine, T spine and Brain. They found white oval Dawson Fingers lesions on the front part of the brain. The doctors have not positively diagnosed me with MS. Five years have gone by and now I feel the weakness in my arms, legs are sluggish and torso is very stiff and achy. I will be having new MRI's performed this upcoming week. Blood works came back negative for Lyme and Lupus.
As I continue to do my own research. I am finding more issues associated with Dawson Finger lesions. My biggest argument is...If its not MS, then how about finding out what it really is.

I am not up for the spine puncture......My doc said its not necessary. He also diagnosed me with Fybromyalgia. Another falsely diagnosed condition.

I think LIMBO is getting over populated.

Good Luck!
Terry

Keri, My 3rd MRI showed Dawson fingers. Still waiting on 2nd opinion so no diagnosis yet. I had LP last year, which was negative.
I thought it was a little worse than my myelogram and several epidurials in my C5. But still worth it, if it helps dx. I went through it because it would of confirmed had it been positive.
Still was limbo.

whoa...I thought I was hallucinating until I looked at the date on the OP...:D

Hi Trinkeet,
Welcome to NT. Nice to meet you. :) I, too, had the Dawson's fingers on MRI, the shape was Ovoid and they lit up from the GAD dye they used. But that was many, many, years after I was diagnosed with MS.

When I was diagnosed they didn't have MRI's, just LP's and rule out tests. It was my clinical exam that clinched it. I had a CT scan but I doubt that was useful other than to look for brain problems or tumors.

My symptoms, history, and clinical exam by a MS specialist Dx'd me in 1981. I was three years in Limbo until then while they tested. It takes time.

Do you live in the USA? Your testing sounds like the procedures of Socialized medicine.

Many people have negative LP's too. It's up to the Neuro to call it. If he/she is not 100 percent sure, than you have to wait and see a bit longer. Sorry.

We have many here in Limbo. Join us on the MS front page and introduce yourself on a New thread here and many will help and reply to you.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/fo...aysprune=&f=17

.

Wow, talk about a flash from the past!

River, I'm with you when I saw this post pop up on top! LOL

Trinkett is new so she researched some old post and posted to it. It is a very old post, but she now knows the main page is a good place to start a new thread, and read and post to the newer ones.

Many people do this and it is why I always look at the date of the first poster to make sure it is a new thread or one brought forward.

She is in the same place you were years ago, questioning the Dawson fingers on the MRI. She was looking for information on Dawson's fingers.

My apologies to Trinkett!
Welcome to NT!
I didn't look at the end of the post, just the beginning and the date.
I hope the info you seek is found in the post.

Dawsons finger
 

I have had numerous MRI CAT scans you name it. I was dx with just lesions on the brain. I wanted more answers too. I guess I didn't want to believe it. I also did not fit the normal age range for the dx. I went to other Neuros. No one would say yes it is MS but yet they put me on the meds for it. I went to the Mayo Clinic in AZ they really put me through the tests. This was the first time I was told about the Dawsons finger in the corpus collosum in my scan. Then my Dr there also did a spinal tap and it was painless. Had a wonderful skilled tech. I was so surprised I also did not want to have that done. I just know got an answer that the Dawsons finger lesion pretty much confirms the dx. It has been so frustrating to have Dr not agree but yet put me on the injections. I have since lost my job lost my insurance got put on SSD but have to wait 2 years to get medical coverage. So I can no longer take any of my meds. Not been easy have had lots of bad days. So yes there are others out there with this term appearing on their MRI. You are not alone.

Welcome Ngaier, nice to meet you.:)