Chronic fatigue or what????
 

I m nearly 40 suffered alone with this condition - the only description I call it is chronic fatigue. Only recently I got the G.P to refer me to the Chronic Fatigue service in Leeds, U.K for assessment but the shrink reckons I don’t have C.F.S/M.E. I didn’t think I did, as the precursor seems to be normal health - viral infection - C.F.S/M.E. My symptoms have been with me for as far back as I can remember into childhood: Chronic Fatigue, Memory, poor concentration, lack of energy for exercise, and over the years total lack of sex drive, chronic weight gain and joint and muscle problems. With this is the usual barrage of physiological problems that go with these symptoms. It’s having to cope with the long periods of unemployment, lack of social skills and friends and a partner which doesn’t make me anamoured of life at all. All you get from the medical profession is "we doctors don’t have all the answers" which seems to me to be a cop out!!!. Is anyone else out there suffering similarly that could throw some light on my predicament?.

Hi carter 1144 and welcome to NeuroTalk.

So sorry to hear what you are suffering and sure hope you do find answers here

I have found that when conventional docs do nothing but :Scratch-Head: :Dunno: sometimes alternative doctors have better insight

I had severe but puzzling reactions to pesticide exposure some years back and it was savvy alternative docs who helped restore my health

gee, Carter...
 

I'd wonder about depression, or a hormone (endocrine) problem, since you
have been this way since childhood.

Have you had adrenal and thyroid tests? Been tested for depression?

Those are my first thoughts.

Re:Chronic fatigue or what????
 

This is really chronic fatigue and I suggest you to use B12 patch. All the problems you just told now will be solved with the patch. Just go through Internet to find out more about this patch. The symptoms show that you have deficiency of B12 for sure. Use that patches, it is prescribed by doctor. B-12 Patch is that it is so easy to take! You can look for more information at their site.
Get well soon.

Rose, Mrs. D, Cara--
 

--take a look at this patch, and the info on the site, for commentary/accuracy, please. (I always want some expert opinion regarding commercial sites!)

Well...
 

I have to say I am a bit skeptical.

It sounds like a good idea. But you know patch technology is very very
tricky. Even experienced patch makers have trouble with them.
(TransDerm scop had to be reformulated, for example).

I looked the the parent company...here is the other product they make:
http://www.migravent.com/

There is a dearth of information on their main website:
http://www.vitasciences.com/about-vita-sciences.html

The "clinical trial" is rather amusing:
Not a good study at all! :rolleyes:

This article discusses transdermal drug delivery. It also mentions B12:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=4&gl=us

B12 is water soluble (hydrophilic) and a large molecule...so the patches have
to be very sophisticated to work successfully.

These patches do not require a doctor's order. They are OTC (over the counter). They are also costly... $ 24.00 for 4.
The scientific data on this patch seem skimpy to me. The diagram is
amateurish looking. I could not find anywhere on the site the amount of drug in that patch --- or the statement as to the type of B12 actually in it.
They ALLUDE to methyl being better than cyano--but they don't STATE that methyl is in it.

Being OTC this is not approved by the FDA... I find the wording on the whole
site to be very clever. Compare the patch data of it to the other
link I gave. A very special formulation for water soluble drugs is necessary and no mention of this special technology is made.

The references this company makes to itself are puzzling. They don't make much...2 products to be exact, and I find the inflated text suspicious.

Pharmaceutical drug delivery products are very sophisticated. This website is not.

I'd like to add that B12 injections do not put the drug directly into the blood stream. They are injected IM or sub Q and absorbed that
way.

Here is an interesting study on how easily oral works:
9 cents a day or $2.70 a month compared to $24.99 a month for 4 patches(assuming they work of course). You choose.

I was having all the troubles with being tired all the time, anemic, and just not feeling right. Since then under the advice of Mrs.D and Rose I started the mythyl type of B12 under the tongue and I feel so much better in a very short period of time. I found them at Wild Oats here in town. Not sure of the price but it wasn't bad. Certainly worth every penny. I was using the cyano type at first but once I switched to the mythyl type of B12 I really noticed a difference. I have not needed to take a nap in over 2 weeks now. So listen to the advice you receive here it may make all the difference. ...Sue

I have had low energy my whole life. I always loved to dance and work out. Now I realize that dancing and working out helped to increase my levels of the active form of b6.

You might consider seeing if you match any of the symptoms for pyroluria. A severe b6 and zinc deficiency would cause low energy normally and may cause fatigue when you experience any kind of stress.

The great thing about finding out that you have a condition like pyroluria is that it explains so many things I have experienced my whole life and did not realize that they were really a medically-based problem. I used to have problems with my anger, and anger episodes is a symptom of pyroluria.

Anemia can be about low vitamin b6 levels sometimes. Anemia is one possible symptom of pyroluria.

Just reading your message here, I'd also suggest if I was in same situation that I'd ask to have thyroid tests and liver tests.

All those signs and symptoms could be from so many numerous conditions it wouldn't be wise to list. Do you have sleep problems at all?

I agree that thyroid and various other possibilities should be looked at. And for thyroid to be explored properly, you almost surely need to learn about it and advocate for yourself. Most docs and labs are waaaay behind.

As for the B12 deficiency possibility. There is no way you can rely on B12 deficiency being the cause, or on any type of B12 treatment eliminating the problems.

However, B12 treatment is a very good idea, as it is safe, inexpensive and may be at least part of what you need. Good insurance.

I also am not impressed with the patch. Looks to me like just another slick marketing campaign designed to relieve people of their money.

I would get myself a good brand of oral methylcobalamin and take it in doses of AT LEAST 1000 mcg.

rose

just in case there is any info that can be gleaned from this...here is an article on CFS from Dr Weil's newsletter today

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/ART00702

to carter 1144 we know what you're going through
 

This is long winded but please read it all! (or skip to the bottom 2 paragraphs)

My wife has suffered with depression, fatigue, on and off anaemia, memory problems from as early as 8 years old. Many visits to the doctors over the years with parents worried about a multitude of things ( incl possible drug abuse ).

During her second pregnancy she started to suffer from neurological symptoms and was referred to Neurology department, a CT scan was inconclusive, she was "reassured" and promptly forgotten ( or discarded ).

After the birth of our son, she had a real turn for the worse, her symptoms escalated to chronic fatigue, numbness in face arm and leg to right hand side of her body, a drop off in her vision to right eye, anxiety and manic behaviour, panic attacks and hallucinations.

She was eventually referred back to the Neurologist who after an MRI scan diagnosed MS. This was 2001 - she got strong pain killers and anti depressants prescribed which helped but her symptoms progressively worsened. At follow up checks at the hospital she was told her MS was benign and no treatment was available.She became incontinent and was told to tink herself lucky when compared to other MS sufferers!

In 2006 we changed doctors, he talked at length about her symptoms and decided to send her blood off for a specific B12 test. It came back at level 175 (200 being classed as too low). She started B12 injections 1000mcg per day and her symptoms improved dramatically. The fatigue she was plagued with lifted almost immediately, within 2 weeks she was able to stop her medication because the muscle pains and depression had lifted. She's going to need lifelong treatment but is recovering slowly, her quality of life has improved so much we are looking forward positively now and not fearing our future anymore.

HERE'S THE SHOCKING BIT In the UK Vit B12 levels are not routinely checked, it is believed if iron levels are okay and there are no signs of macrocytosis that B12 doesn't need to be checked. Even with the severe symptoms and all the neurological manifestation my wife did not get a B12 test until she was lucky enough to come across our new family doctor.

So please, Carter 1144, being resident in the UK means you might have to fight with your GP to get a B12 test - if they agree to test it might come back in the normal range - that's because B12 should be looked at with MMA Take one a day for 3 months at least and keep a diary of how your symptoms change. Remember these FACTS - vit b12 is the only vitamin required by every living cell in the body and it is the only vitamin that the body will easily extract if it has too much, therefore you can't take too much, it's safe.

Good luck, I hope you get this message and it makes a difference.Please keep in touch via this forum, I'd like to know how things go for you.
PS you can't get the B12 patch in UK they don't ship to us - we've tried.

I'm glad to see Matty emphasizing the underdiagnosis of B12 deficiency. Unfortunately, that is the case in many other countries as well, including the US.

Since the vitamin is safe, one can cover the possibility without wasting time fighting for testing. Even appropriate testing is not 100%.

rose

any updates Carter?
 

I am leaning toward a thyroid issue. I have over my life experienced all that you have discribed. I am 60. Fatique and lack of concentration, etc. I finally was diagnosed with Graves disease after a year of extreme stress.......illness and death in the family. I feel there is ebb and flow to life. I have taken all the B12 sublinqual and royal jelly's and anything I could, in the past to raise my energy levels. Music does as much as aformentioned to help with momentum. I must add here that I am a caregiver to a 31 year old son who requires much. If I have a good day and accomplish many tasks the next 2 or 3 I am exhausted and find myself pushing myself to do things. I just takes all the joy out of living. Good luck!