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Hi please help
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Hello, and I'm so glad I found this site. I'm 25 years old and I was in a car accident on November 18th. Since then I have had neck and upperback pain, really bad migraines, numbness in my arms and hands, and a tingling sensation. I also have had a bad case of the dropsies. My lawyer referred me to a chiropractor. Well he's been hooking me up to a tens unit that has literally burned my skin. Finally he said let's get an MRI. The MRI shows a 3 MM bulging disc in my neck. He didn't really tell me what that means or what kind of treatment we need to do. Or even where the bulge is other than my neck. The tens unit is not helping for more than about an hour. I've been reading and everyone has all their technical information up and I'm a little confused. But I'm so frustrated because I haven't been able to do normal daily things, like wash dishes and cook without intense pain. What am I doing wrong and can anyone help explain things to me?
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For Pete's sake DON'T GO TO A CHIROPRACTOR. You need to be referred to a Neurosurgeon for an opinion!!! I'm not saying you need surgery because they WON'T do surgery on bulging discs -- but you could at least get an opinion.
One false move by a chiropractor could land you in a wheelchair or paralyze you. Im not just talking - 2 different Neurosurgeons told me this. So please - stay away from them. :eek: Also, you would benefit from physical therapy. Many times your pain, etc. can be relieved from doing gentle exercises. So ask your doc for a referral to Pt. Since you've already had an MRI, you'll want to get copies and a copy of the report from your Chiro -- IF he'll give them to you. You might have to pay for them, as you normally have to at a hospital. They usually cost about $5.00 per sheet. Best of luck and God bless. let us know how you come out. Hugs, Lee |
Hello,
Did they mention what level of the c spine the bulge is at? C 3-4-5-6 or 7? 3mm bulge -I don't know if that is considered small, medium, large? touching the nerve or important structures at all anywhere or not? What you describe for symptoms could possibly be something like Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) - was your accident a whiplash type or head /shoulder/neck involvement? Here's our TOS sticky thread that has tons of info to explain more about it - http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread84.html Chiropractor question- Are you sure it was a TENS and not another electrical stimulator type? There are some nerve stims, IF stim etc - but if any of them are turned up too high they could cause burns I suppose. Or you could be allergic to the material on the adhesive pads.:confused: There are good and poor chiropractors, maybe you need to seek out an expert. I've been going to mine since 2004 for my chronic RSI/TOS , he does upper cervical adjustments and other modalities like PTs would use for soft tissue/pain conditions. Many people do get some relief if not full relief from chiropractic care. I do believe there is still a bit of a stigma , that MDs will not even consider chiropractic care to their patients, even if they cannot help that person, they will not recommend or suggest chiro care. My opinion is that is a mistake. I might have been able to avoid my chronic conditions IF any of my drs would have suggested looking in to chiro care. The secret is you must seek out a skilled expert. Same as for surgeons. |
get a referral to a neurosurgeon!
I agree with Leesa... get yourself to a neurosurgeon. You will probably need a referral from a GP or the hospital, but you DEFINATELY need to see a neurosurgeon to access what the damage is. A chiropractor should not be adjusting your neck, he can cause much worse damage. A tens machine is only temporary relief, it will not solve your issues. Physical therapy may help a little, they can at least show you proper posture, apply moist heat and ultrasound and offer simple stretches to not hurt yourself worse.
I am having surgery on my cervical spine in 12 days (ACDF) because of 3 herniated discs and degenerative disc desease, with pinched nerves running down my hands. I too drop things frequently and have excrutiating nerve pain in my hand, arm and neck. I have all of your symptoms. This doesn't mean you necessarily need surgery, but the damage caused by your accident can only be properly accessed by a neurosurgeon, not a chiropractor. You may need some narcotics to help with pain, and personally I get some (not a lot) temporary relief from BioFreeze (a topical lotion similar to IcyHot, but much stronger) and this can be purchased from your chiropractor. Good luck on finding proper diagnosis... be firm in pushing to see a specialist, at least with a car accident you can use your insurance company as leverage to get your referral faster. keep us posted on how you are feeling... take care, Cathie |
You might find some more info here - bulges
http://www.chirogeek.com/001_tutoria...h-of-bulge.htm http://www.back.com/faq.html?intFAQI...ulging%20disc? |
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Unless he is highly rated as an atty (online, web searches etc) I would wonder if he just refers to a nearby "friendly" DC that will work up a claim and not really be there for you as a patient. How to say it delicately - ambulance chaser types?? not to delicate -but just asking - it's hard to tell sometimes. I would do some webs searches on both of them to see if they have good reviews/ratings My dad has to wear his TENS for most of the day- it usually is used for pain blocking. Some of the other kinds of E stims will do more for healing or muscle, nerve or cell actions. more on the stim /TENS - blisters or burns- You could have the blisters due to allergic reaction of the adhesive on the pads - usually the wire portion of the stim is centered on the pad so I think the burn spots would tend to appear in the center of the pads instead of the edges. I have a EMS (muscle) stim at home so I do know a bit about them as well as IF stim my chiro uses and a PT place used a nerve type stim a few times for me , but it was yrs ago so I don't recall the exact name of it. Did it feel like it was zapping/hurting you at any time - that would tell you if it was at too high of a setting. |
Just a few minor but significant notes.....
There are several types of "stim" units that fall into one of several classes: direct current units, which produce a net amperage transfer from one pad to the other over time and is capable of burning the skin. Aka iontophoresis. Then there is the balance of units being sine wave, square wave, gated sine wave, etc. that has no net charge exchange and cannot burn you. Can sure tick you off though if misapplied! TENS units have a very small net exchange and while conceivably could burn, never seen it happen. If it did, it would be more due to inadequate patient instruction or improper use. Pad allergies make more sense or even dry or damaged pads. Newer ones like inferential, H-wave...somewhat variations of the same, to a degree. When it comes to MRI's, you might be interested to know that there are studies out there that state that 60-70% of all abnormal MRI findings (disc and degeneration issues) are in ASYMPTOMATIC individuals! They have no pain. There are good and bad people in everything. |
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I'm a little confused too. IMO, this sounds like classic whiplash. I would have thought you'd have been sent to an ER immediately after the accident. I'm confused as to why, with those kinds of symptoms, this lawyer sent you to a chiropractor alone instead of any number of doctors - neurosurgeon, neurologist, orthopedic surgeon, even a physiatrist - for a complete workup. A TENS should not have burned you, but it's not likely to help those kinds of injuries/pain either. IMO, I'd seek out a different attorney, and get to a doctor (MD) specializing in whiplash. Doc |
See a doctor
Hi Talia,
I am sorry to hear about your pain. I agree with some of the other replies that you need to see a doctor, probably more than one. You may have more than one thing wrong. Several things can be damaged after a car accident. I also had a car crash and it has left me with some of your symptoms but not others. I have some neural damage, to my brain and back. This is manifest in symptoms such as tingling, pain, and really bad headaches. However, I don't have any numbness. Perhaps you have a trapped nerve? I think that the tingling could be due to subtle neural damage, but nothing that would be visible on an MRI. I also had an MRI and there was a prolapsed disc in my neck. However, some of those changes might have been there before the crash, due to aging or bad posture. I have had some physiotherapy on my upper back and this was helpful, but you need to find a manipulative physiotherapist who really knows what she is doing. I didn't find that a TENS machine helped at all. I also have post-concussion symptoms. (There is a forum on this site about that if you think that that might be part of your condition.) Have you considered that? Did you have any confusion, post-traumatic amnesia or where you knocked out? You may have some trapped nerves in your spine leading to numbness but I think that your condition might be more complex. Do do see a doctor. A general family doctor will not be specialized enough. You need to see a neurologist who is familiar with so-called mild traumatic brain injuries and spinal injuries. Good luck. I hope that you find someone. Do feel free to send an email if you want to compare our conditions more. I hope that you return to this site and read some of the advice that people have posted. All the best. CS Quote:
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It will get better
Hi, My name is Rick. My wife and I were hit by someone who ran a red light and we both ended up with neck and back injuries. My wife had two herniations c3,c4, c5, and ended up having surgery. I have read some of the replies you have gotten and you have some good advice coming your way. No chiropractor, definately a good attorney you can trust.. and if your pain is not improved through conventional treatment, tens, heat, ice, mild physical therapy, then surgery may be needed. My wife went through PT for 9 months along with the other measures and the headaches, tingling, pain and numbness in her arms and hands never did go away. The surgeon told us about artificial disc implants that according to him have been used here in the US for several years now. She had two art. discs put in her neck and after the surgery she experienced immediate relief from the pain, the numbness, tingling and her headaches subsided. She was sore from the surgery, but she did so well that she went back to her desk job in just 3 weeks. (part time) I know everyone is different, I am not doing as well as my wife did I am postop 12 weeks level 4 lumbar fusion. By the way my wife also had level 3 lumbar fusion the same time as the neck surgery, so she had a two for one. Anyway, you are alot younger than we are, we are 54 yo. You have a lot of life in front of you and the fact that you are young would tell me that you stand a really good chance of making a fabulous recovery if surgery is elected. Didnt mean to ramble on, hope this helps. I know it is frustrating facing pain all the time, Our accident was Labor Day of 2008 and we are just having the surgery, Should have done it sooner. God bless. rick
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thank you all
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Thank you all for advice and helpful thoughts... there were alot of questions...
im including a picture of the electric stimuli machine.. which the dr called a tens unit and after some research I have found its not a tens unit... its a pic from online... I also included a new pic of my neck after this treatment... on Wen. I have an appointment with a different Dr. I got a copy of the mri so i could see for myself whats going on. It says I have spinal canal stenosis due to a 3mm posterior disc protrusion at c5/6 and a hemangioma within T1. The current dr has not explained what that means or what the options are or treatment. He just keeps hooking me up to this machine every monday, wens, and friday... Yesterday my migraine was so bad my entire face went numb and i was crying in pain. Nothing over the counter would touch it and I tried every suggestion people gave me to help it... Im hoping the dr wens can direct me in the right direction if anyone has any suggestions from past experiences... please... i welcome advice... i feel because of my age maybe people dont take me seriously... :confused: |
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The picture is likely of an inferential unit. Older vernacular was "Russian Stimulation." Conventional muscle stim units are set at around 90-100 Hz for pain control. Intensity is problematic as the tingling can be uncomfortable. With inferential, there are two channels each with two pads, total of four. It is a sine-wave type unit so there is no net current transfer to cause skin burn. For example, the "red" channel will operate at 4000 Hz and the black one at 4100 Hz. The pads are placed as an example, 12 and 6 o'clock for the red and 9 and 3 o'clock for the black. Where the currents intersect, sets up an "interference" current in the shape of a "cross" with the net difference of 100 Hz, hence the amount needed for pain control. The reason for all of this is theoretically current is much less obnoxious at 4000 Hz (skin resistence is less at higher frequencies) vs. 100 Hz so you can get more pain relief that is more comfortable. Some of these come with little "suction" devices as pads that probably do nothing more than hold the pads on your skin and make you look like you have been attacked by an octopus. A 3mm disc protrusion is normal for some and surgical for others. It all depends on your complaints and clinical findings. True stensosis with a 3 mm protrusion suggests you have other issues, facet arthropathy, marginal spurring, etc. Vertebral hemangioma is rarely more than an incidental finding. Since true "whiplash experts" are a rare breed to find, at least find a surgeon, ortho or neuro, who is spine fellowship trained to help assess your findings and guide you on what you need. A good neuorologist should be able to help you with both treatment and determine causation of your headaches. Nothing wrong with a competent chiropractor, especially if you find one who is board certified in orthopedics or neurology.They can (or should) also direct referral to medical specialist, if needed. |
Well, I have to say when I got IFc I was given disposable electrode pads each visit.
Those suction cup thingeys look evil. I wonder if you are allergic to the material, or if they are latex? Or something similar? I wouldn't go back there and allow them again. IFc can be given a different way. IFc was very effective for my pain from a tendon injury. In 3 visits + ultrasound, my pain was down from 8 to a 2 or so. I had suffered with it for 4 weeks on vacation too. Only with Lidoderms to take the edge off. (in the boonies) |
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Here is more info on the machine- [This machine (ProElec DT 2000) has been a breakthrough in electromedicine, combining all known forms of electromedical therapy, in addition to this new revolutionary therapy. It is the most sophisticated form of electrotherapy available. ] http://www.drmarkwheaton.com/electrotherapy.html so it just depends on how the person sets it up - it can do all types of e therapies. Did you tell/ask the DC about your skin reactions? And I would ask again what type of e stim therapy he is using on you. If he says TENS again:( ask why ? Does he do any adjustments or just the e stim only?? Maybe he hasn't really trained for the proper use of this machine or the various e stim therapies. You have to speak up and tell any care provider if you aren't feeling better and especially if you are feeling worse - so they can adjust the treatments - if they don't then run away from them. Sometimes places will buy expensive equipment/gadgets and try to make it fit for all pts that come thru the door. and bill them accordingly - so they can get the machines paid off. You don't have to keep going treatment that is hurting you. Tell the atty it isn't working out - and good luck with that newer dr. It is your body, take charge and don't let poor care, or poor referrals mess you up worse. You didn't say if it feels like it is shocking or stinging you at all?:confused: just curious , I guess you would mention it if it was doing that too. |
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Ten
I have had TEN's units used on me on high settings and I have never had a burn from one yet, I thank I would not ever go back to that dr
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The Electrical Machine
Hi Talia,
I did a quick internet search on the machine that you keep having used on you and the following seemed relevant. From the web info, which could have been posted by anyone, it seems that the purpose of the machine that has been used on you is to 1. Stimulate peripheral nerves for the purpose of providing pain relief. 2. For complex and chronic pain conditions. 3. For adjunctive treatment of post-traumatic pain syndromes. 4. Management and symptomatic relief of chronic (long-term) pain. However, I also found, as far as I can gather, that : 1. Electrical stimulation of the skin does not help with pain from the central nervous system. 2. The machine is purely for symptomatic relief and does not act as a cure in any way. The way that I read the above is: "The machine's only purpose is to relieve your symptoms, so if it is causing pain then it isn't working." Even if you find that the doctor with the machine is helping, I would definitely get a second opinion. Another doctor might suggest some drugs that might help with pain from the central nervous system. I mentioned before that I had something similar to you and I found electrical stimulation didn't help at all, not even for temporary relief of symptoms. However, I did find that 10 mg of Amitriptyline every night did help a bit. Perhaps another doctor might try something else. And whether you are 25 or not you have to stick up for yourself. This is something serious that you've got, so don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings. If your doctors aren't helping you just walk. Taking someone along with you might help. Is there anyone sympathetic who could help you to sort this out? Best of luck. CS Quote:
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my thoughts
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I tried everything and the two below seems to be the best for me.I may get injections next week, I have being back doing those two for 3 weeks and it is super slow, but I would say I got rid of 70 % of the sciatica. 1/ get the book "treat you own neck" by robin mc Kensies, you will learned about posture and herniated disk. 2/ get " pain free" by egoscue , go to back section or if you can afford it see a postural alignement specialist. 3/ get a lumbar roll so you don't sit slouching right away. keep moving, nothing is forever, even hell ! and I know what i am talking about it. There is a lot of people doing laser spine surgery, and back surgery very tempting, and BIG BUSINESS... I would approach this with utmost cautious. there is a lot of people in pain with surgery. And there is a lot of success story. I want to get out of pain NOW but I got to be patient too. hope this help cheers virginie |
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