received ECT... how to recover from the negative effects?
 

About two years ago i received a ECT and clozeral combination for a serious depression i was experiencing. as a result i was totally out of it for months i seemed to appear better at time cause of this sort of artificial high that these "treatments" created. i have lost a ton of memory (long term-short term) and simple everyday tasks such as boiling water for pasta i have found to be extremely difficult since the treatment--- loss of cognitive skills too. strangely enough i feel empty headed (no conscious thoughts running through my head) and i have lost the ability to visualize images in my head ( i thought in pictures) --- i feel like a totally different person and this is very stressful to me. it also angers me that i wasn't given all the info on the risks.

if anyone has experienced ECT and have had similar side effects or has any advise on how i can recover please comment.... thanks...

do you go to therphy? Has any doctors given you step by step day by day things to do ..sorta like retraining you for daily things you did "normaly" before with out much trouble.
I am sorry for what your still going threw but did it help with your depression? I dont understand if the docs havent helped you re learn things or given you diffrent exercises to improve those issues. They should maybe see if you can get refered to diffrent doctor or therphy if thats possible and if your comfortable with that idea. I dont know what to say most times the positive far out weight the negitive.
:hug: :hug: :hug:
Dont give up maybe another will come along and offer more helpful advice then i can at this time. I will say prayers for you and hope things improve for you.
Thank you for posting.By the way it is nice to meet you and in case no one has done it..I want to give you a warm welcome to neuro talk.:hug: I hope you find this a safe supportive community. there are many forums and even more wonderful people here.
If I can help you in any way let me know.
PEACE
BMW

i appreciate you response, Burnt marshmallow,

pleased to meet you.. :)

The ECT helped i would say for a short period.. i didn't feel well though... kinda off and, out of it... just not depressed. Since receiving the ECT i have been residing at a therapeutic work community in mass. time and the work the the community has offered has helped me rebuild some of my skills. I'm still struggling though. i have heard many success story's related to this treatment where the positive effects out rode the negatives. i have also heard as many disasters.

this is a terrific site.. please post if you have any advice... i would also be willing to help members on this site to the best of my ability... thanks

hi my name is the sad one in this forum i am going through ect now 3 times a week and i am not liking the effects i am very forgetful and very so called out of it lately

I was reading in a neurological magazine how doctors are just now realizing how different medications and treatments can have a significant cogitive impact for people. Everyone is different, but sometimes it takes a long time to recover. Often times, just reducing or eliminating difficult medications causes improvement. We know now that a good diet and light exercise helps in this area. Avoiding fats and too much sugar is always helpful.

In addition, taking a multi vitamin and perhaps extra nutrients might help and it might be a very good idea to talk with your doctor or a nutritionist about this. The B vitamins help with depression and might also help with memory. This is why I take and recommend that my friends who are having health concerns take a B50 tablet, in addition to thier multi vitamin. It has a variety of B vitamins and covers most everything. Another supplement to look into would be Omega 3. You can get this from eating things like Wild Salmon and watch for products made with them. You can even find them in things like eggs and peanut butter these days. Honestly, you would be surprised with how much a good diet, added vitamins and a little exercise helps with memory issues.

The items mentioned above (diet, excerise and vitamins) help with memory and depression...so it is a winning combination.

Still another issue...getting enough sleep has been proven to help with memory. Again, natural things should be tried first. Warm milk at night, relaxation tapes, melatonin from the health food store (usually 1-3 mgs).

In addition, I think most doctors would not even consider prescribing something to help with memory until all natural efforts have been sincerely tried first.

Don't forget, there is a good chance that time will be your biggest asset with reference to feeling better..which is what you are after.

Ask your doctor if any medications or treatments you are taking could cause memory issues. If so, maybe they could be lowered/reduced/switched or eliminated. Think about any changes that you might make to your diet and to inquire about possible supplementation. I do wish you well...I understand how frustrating this can be.

the ect treatments did not help me at all they made me worse and the dr said after 9 treatments its time to stop now i have a constant headache andi ammore aggitated

Denise Please make sure you are drinking fluids and resting. the fluids will help .
and listen to soft relaxing music soak in a nice tub and take it easy and rest as much as you can . sometimes bright lights might bother you and loud noises , thing like this will be temporary :hug:. give yourself and body time to rebound from the treatments. one day at a time .stay strong and hold tough your doing great my friend. :hug:
we are proud :grouphug: and we are here for you to lean on.
PEACE
BMW

well I still have memory loss and still dont feel well. I am worse off now than i was before the ect. i really think people should look at the pros and cons of ect first before doing it. its hard to function on a daily basis after my ect. and it is even harder to remember special events such as my kids birthdays. so if i had a chance to do it all over again i would pass on ect

Yes; I had the same problems from ECT and more. I have lots of visual-spatial problems. Had RUL ECT but at a high charge. I feel like a totally different preson too, and I have all sorts of cognitive problems. So far neuropsych testing shows significant problems with concentration and attention. I am now very distractible. I had olfactory hallucinations right after I shopped--constant horrible odor of burning wax and smoke.

I have Chiari I malformation too as well as GERD and sleep apnea and lots of pain in neck and back and it goes on. Some of this is from the chiari, and some from the ECT. Hard for me to sort out, but I am now seeing a neurologist and will complete neuropsych testing.

Zeba

Zeba,
that horrible... how long ago did you receive the treatments? i've been brainstorming with a couple friends of mine on a some possible way to make a full recovery from ECT... if you would like maybe we could put our heads together and try to figure something out?

I am sorry I have not posted in such a long time and did not respond to the thread. I had ECT two years ago, seven unilateral treatments, and they did me in. I just finished the neuropsychologial testing --I had to start over with another neuropsychologist because of some problems with the testing with the guy I originally saw. I have not seen the report yet, but he told me I have significant impairments with some things like word retrieval. Sometimes I feel really dumb because of this. The neurologist helped me to understand what happened to me due to ECT. He also said that things like Alzheimers can be brought on by assaults to the brain including ECT. I do not have a neurodegenerative disorder for which I am glad. He also explained how some of my symptoms are due to the Chiari I malformation and how it was no good for me to have done ECT with this. It made things worse with the Chiari. I am supposed to see a neurosurgeon, but I have been dragging my feet with this. I will try to be better about posting.

Zeba

I think reading these posts lets us know that there are potential difficult side effects to this treatment and everyone needs to be made aware of this. So, if your doctor suggests this treatment...it would be wise to ask. I'm sure this treatment has helped folks...so keep in mind that everyone is different. Not everyone gets the same side effects, etc.

One thing I thought about was the possible use of medications for Alzheimers to treat memory loss. Even if you don't have Alzheimers techinically, perhaps there is a chance that the medicine would help. I'm thinking it is worth experimenting with it...one would have to ask their doctor. Some medicines to ask about would be Aricept and Namenda. Given what we already know about possible medication problems...perhaps a small dosage is best.

I also think, even if it only helps in a small way, it would still be beneficial to try eating properly, light to moderate exericse and vitamins, proper rest and avoiding dehydration. Of course with that last one...water is always best. I also really like what BMW said...relaxing music...and giving the body time to heal. It is amazing what the body can do when we give it a chance to heal...might be a little...might take a long time....but it's good to do what we can to help.

This is a tough situation...no doubt. Perhaps some medication if warranted, some good health habits, combined with positive thinking and time...will really make changes. I've seen big things happen for others in difficult situations with this combination.

Wishing those affected by this better health......better memory.

My neurologist would not prescribe any of the drugs used for Alzheimers as he said it is not FDA approved for anyone except people with Alzheimers. One of his specialty areas is memory disorders and in particular Alzheimers. I know some people who had ECT have psychiatrists who have prescribed it even for when they are getting ECT. I don't know if it really works. I decided to go the Vitamin route and take extra Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. My neurologist also said exercise as he said it helps get more blood to the brain. He said reseach shows that Alzheimers patients who take meds do better, but with one group where they added arobic exercies daily, those people did even better. He said exercise helped to consolidate brain connections better than the meds. So, I need to make a committment to walk every day and then maybe bike ride as the weather improves.

I totally agree about the walking and taking the B vitamins to support memory. In addition, I would think Fish Oil would be very important.
There is a supplement called Phophatidine Serine (sp?). It is abbreviated as "PS." This supplement is famous for helping folks with memory. My guess is if you did all these things...B vitamins, Fish Oil, walking daily plus a PS tablet...your memory would be better in a few weeks.

What if ECT doesn't work?
 

My husband has been in a severe depressive episode for almost 4 years. His disease appears to be resistant to all medications. We have started ECT treatments--he has had 11 so far. We had to slow down the schedule, he could only tolerate one treatment per week. We have not seen a lot of progress....what's next? What other options do we have? I am being told that 'death' or suicide are likely outcomes...I am having a hard time accepting that.

Hello,
It seems that after that many treatments, you might have noticed at least a little improvement.
Have a talk with the psychiatrist performing the ECT about what kind he is using. Bilateral? Unilateral?

I'm sorry to jump in here with what may be a dumb question, but have your husband's psychiatrists tried traditional bipolar medications?

Sometimes after three anti-depressants fail to help, mood stabilizers can help.

You could try reading about "Soft Bipolar."
http://www.psycheducation.org/depres...osis.html#soft


List of common mood stabilzers. There are others beyond this list:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depres...tabilizers.htm

One of the best things to break up a non-major depressive episode is exercise. Does he walk or do any other kind of work out routine? Some people stay alive through their exercise programs.

What is his sleep schedule like?

Also look at hypnosis and /or acupuncture.

How about Fish Oil?
I get Omega Brite shipped to me from on-line.

I remember hearing that the younger someone is, the more likely it is that they can get pulled out of the depression with our tools available to us at this time.

A work friend of mine who was in his late 50s was given a really low chance of success via meds and only a slightly better chance with with ECT. He choose the ECT.


M.

If ECT has not worked so far after 11 treatments, it is likely it is not going to work. I did not get better after 7 and quit because I just did not want more damage. I had already started to notice problems after number 6.

I saw my PCP today, and he thought Aricpet might be worth a try. I am sort of scared to try it. What if I try it and then quit. Will my memory get worse after I quit? Also, he said research shows now that extra B6 can cause permanent brain damage for some people. So I quit the b6 but still take the B12.

I would challenge that doctor on that statement! Make him prove it and doses need to cause it.

One cannot make serotonin without B6. The P5P version is better since some people cannot take pyridoxine B6 and convert it to the active form.

Here is a paper showing B6 is protective:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

I have a thread here discussing the potential toxicities of very high dose B6:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread30724.html

The actual number of proven B6 toxicities is very very small..over many many years, and go back to when 500mg a day was used for PMS. (no longer recommended).

Hi I went through the same thing. And still am I cant help my 10 year old withhis homework or really remember anything I missplace everything, this has really effected my self esteem. I wasnt told of the side effects either they told me the memory would come back I cant remember my childrens birthdays at that time or anything its like those months didnt exist to me but they did to my family,they hated to see me like that but I was in such desperate need and still am. I am so tired of being passed around hospitalized suicide attempts i am desperate for help. How are you know are you feeling better now?

Thank You to JH for important information!
 

Dear JH, I wish I could be more help, but I am avidly interested in your article because my psychiatrist is strongly recommending ECT. I live alone, and so do not have to boil water for pasta [!], but I have an elderly cat that I must take care of and wonder if I would be able to do that. My cognitive skills have regressed enough as it is. I don't blame you for being angry about not being given all the information. If it will reduce your anger, you might think about this: mental health professionals, to include psychiatrists, generally have to be in fairly good mental health to hold their demanding jobs. As a result, all they can actually know about mental or affective illness is what they have studied in books, again written largely by professionals, not patients. It may be somewhat easier for a medical Dr. to understand medical conditions and treatments that he has not experienced, as these things can be viewed, by MRI or otherwise. Psychiatric professionals do not have the ability to "see" the conditions they are treating or the results of the treatment. Instead, those who need information get its from people like you, with the experience and the writing and language skills to communicate that experience. Mental health professionals cannot essentially understand what it is that they are treating. I WILL say that they should be doing their research through reading articles like yours! I think the brain rewires itself in time, and I once worked with a 70 y/o lady who had had a lobotomy, with her memory and skills subsequently restored. ~hugs, very best of luck, and keep posting. You are very helpful to many of us, and your cognitive and other skills are very adequate to this mission! billie

I have now started rehab for the cognitive impairments I have. I have gone twice and am first listneing to an audio version of a book to see if I remember; I did okay, and so next was has been to listen to the audio version while following along with reading the book. That was really hard. I tried just reading outloud, and that did not work well.

Zeba

How to recover from the negative effects fom ECT
 

I have had the same problems. I have word retrieval and word fluency problems plus I cannot read and remember what I read. My spelling is still crap. Misplacing things is better only because I make a point of putting things in a certain place and no where else. I cannot read and retain what I read for more than a day or two. Used to be five minutes. I had ECT back in early 2007. I also have a lot of visual spatial problems. I could go on;

What you need is neuropsychological testing which should give some information about what you need in terms of rehab. I am now working with my therapist but also with a rehab psychologist who is also a neuropsychologist.

Some things got better over time but not everything. This is where rehab can be helpful. Some of my memories are gone likely for good, but some are retrievable according to the rehab doc.

Zeba

Hi Christineonthescene!!!

Welcome to NT!

I was recently talking with my pshyciatrist... we were talking about Deep Brain Stimulation. He said it may be worth checking into as he has heard some really good results with Depression patients who were getting zero relief from medicines and ECT.

I really haven't checked into it as of yet...

It may be worth asking your hubby's doctor.

I sincerely wish you and your hubby the best. It can be hard living with BiPolar and the Depression and Mania that goes along with it. I hope you are able to find something that relieves your hubby of his depression.

:hug:
Abbie
Diagnosed---BiPolar with rapid cycling and mixed states one year ago.

I started to reply and lost the post. I am a MH professional who had ECT. I had 7 RUL treatments, twice per week at my insistance, but they did 5 times the seizure threshold level. I quit before they wanted me to as I was becoming extremely confused and disoriented. Bull that any doctor says they would do ECT if they needed it. I have been diagnosed by the neurologist and neuropsychologist with ECT cognitive decline, and I am now in rehab. This is no laughing matter. You could end up worse. It's a crap shoot. My advice-if you can get by without it, don't do it. Exercise by going for walks, etc. and do whatever it takes to stay on top of things.

Zeba

Thank You!
 

JH, I am so sorry for what you are continuing to go through and so grateful for this information your posted, as my doctor is insisting on ECT. I'm glad that are have a place to live where you can work, be retrained to some extent and have some help and companionship. I would be all alone with a cat to take care of after the ECT. Can't very well give away a 13 y/o cat companion. Like some of the others, I think time will provide some answers and help for you, and it is so wonderful that you can work. I have ST memory problems to begin with and can't boil pasta to begin with, come to think of it! I know that feeling like a different and less capable person must be traumatic for you. But I'll bet you are well liked, loved, and the same person on the outside and in the heart! :hug: billie

I have never had any treatment like that, but I have problems with memory (and am HF autism), but to help the memory problems you might want to look up 'executive functioning' and read some about that. There are all kinds of sites that talk about ways to deal with it and things you can do to get better. Here is one website that has some good ideas that have helped me
http://thiswayoflife.org/ef.html

So sad. Family member (in-law) received ECT for naught. Never the same again. And in the end it turned out that extra nutrition was probably all that was needed since this was right after childbirth. In retrospect seems barbaric. Lifesaver for some, but they don't know who, do they?

You have some good advice here in other posts. Treat like brain damage and get occupational therapy. Get plenty of sleep. Lots of fluids. Good nutrition. Maybe take fish oil. And choline. And whatever else helps brain function.

I had to quit my rehab prematurely due to therapist illness. So now I have to find someone new. I am still having visual-spatial and visual-perceptal problems and some right side neglect as well as word finding difficulties and short term memory,

Effects of ECT treatments
 

I have a friend who is suffering from the effects of ECT treatments. Medications prescribed has not helped. She says her feelings go beyond what we might view as depression symptoms. She has lost all incentives to do anything. Even simple things like going to the bath room. She says that her feelings are different from what she has felt in depression. Please advise a doctor I can talk with, or someone who has felt similar symptoms. Ken

Yes, you're absolutely right. If you want to look at the cons, a good site I've found is:** Best of luck!

I Know What Your Going Through
 

I had ect treatment about a month ago, and it is much for me as it has been for you - the costs are far greater than any doctor had suggested. Besides severe memory issues, my cognitive functioning for daily normal and basic tasks has been greatly impaired. ect lifted my mood for about 2 weeks, but I would much rather have remained with severe depression, as painful as it was, then to have to experience the horrors and stress that I have experienced since ect. I wish I had something to say to encourage you and help you with your situation - but unfortunately, I'm in the same boat. I understand the frustration that you're experiencing over the fact that the doctors never told you that ect could cause you to feel mentally handicapped. I'll pray for you bro. Hang in there.

horrors of ect from a new member
 

i have had 2 successful rounds of ect and 1 round of tms which did not work & was extremely expensive $13,000 i had to compartmentalize the horrors of being anaesthesized 2 x a week not to mention entering an ice cold operating room & allowing strangers to take complete control of my mind & body

however, now that the treatment has worked i am no longer able to tolerate these effects & am told that the relapse rate for those of us who do not continue with a maintenance program, which would be fewer than 2 x a week, is 50% & the horror or being hospitalized again -- 6 this year alone before i would surrender & submit to this last round of treatments leaves me feeling trapped between 2 horrors

i am extremely sensitive to antidepressants & am right now tolerating lexapro & trazadone (for sleep) but cannot rely on them because of my past history with psychopharms

anyone found a less onerous alternative for those of us who respond so well to ect, as do i?

thanks for your validation
 

you gave me exactly what i was seeking -- validation my psychiatrist, well meaning as i'm sure he is, had manipulated me into thinking that if i stopped treatment it would be my failure to comply

i have written a book about trauma, having witnessed my husband's dive from our b/r balcony 20 yrs ago & was a successful shrink in private practive for 25 years so i'm fairly certain of the ground on which i stand when i make decisions but this md had manipulated me into thinking i'd be stressing my adult son & letting him down

so, again, thank you for your response & for allowing me to benefit from your experience

singinglady

ECT and its effects
 

Let me know if you figure something out. ECT was a disaster in my case. The depression really did lift for about three weeks but concentration and memory are in ruins. I suck in social situations and am like a zombie. Unfortunately doctors do not tell you the serious risks of zapping your brain. I empathize with all of you and hope that recovery is a true possibility. Let me know if you have any good ideas or just want to talk with someone who knows the horrors of severe depression as well as experiences the cognitive impairments caused by ECT.

ECT Recovery Possible??
 

Hello... Ihave been reading your posts. Some of them go back a couple of years, and I am hopeful that this is still being discussed!

I am about 6 months out from my last of 16 treatments, and I STILL don't feel like myself.

I am hoping to be involved in these conversations, and to work together on how we can recover.

I have the same issues: memory loss, cognitive problems, loss of self-esteem, feeling crazy...

Are we allowed to exchange email adresses here?

I really need to talk to someone who can give me some hope!

:confused:

Thanks!

Kathy

I want to talk to someone who understands the after-effects of ECT, please.:grouphug:

Reseonse to Zeba
 

I realize your post was awhile back, but is there any hope at all? I am only 6-7 months since my last treatment. I need something to look forward to. Thanks!

Kathy

We there for you
 

Hey Kathy, My name is Rich I haven't had ECT treatments, But I do have PN which sends mixed signals to my brain, severe arthritis (shoulder surgery & total knee replacement), chronic pain, and depression. Then all the side effects from my meds I have most of the same symptoms you have.

I do look for answers, knowledge, advice, but mostly support from this forum. I still do web research but most times five mintes after I read it I forget most of it. So it's good to have friends and a family of sorts who are going through same type of problems even though their conditions and symptoms are different, but you will find some of us are good listeners and supporters.

Here for you
God Bless!

years lost
 

I received ECT treatments in 2000. I was told I had over 100 done to me. It erased 11 years of my life. It caused my divorce and has severely hampered my ability to perform as a graphic designer. I am still on a ton of meds for my depression and have a big problem in remembering every day things. 11 years lost, that's alot for having ECT treatments that they say help you!

Hi JH
 

Welcome to Neruo Talk. I have heard of the therapy you received. I hope you contact your doctor with all the issues you are having. There should be some kind of therapy available to help with memory. More help for sure than what you have received. You must have been quite depressed to have to go that route. Do you feel better with the depression? I hope there is a compassioate therapist that can help you cope with the side effects, and get you into a position where you are more comforatable. Keep in touch with Neuro Talk. There are alot of caring individuals on this site. Depression happens to alot of us. We can help with that just by staying in touch. ginnie