psychogenic seizures
 

Hi! Does anyone have any information/personal experience with psychogenic seizures. I just recently read a little about that, but I wanted to know more and am having problems finding out symptoms, treatment, etc. Also, Todd's syndrome. (everything I read about it, it is paralysis after a seizure, but our primary care doctor is stating it is paralysis, from migraines). It sounds like the psychogenic seizures are very hard to diagnose for epileptic seizures. My husband has a variety of seizures, including grand mal and I was trying to find more information on the psychogenic seizures. He has been only different medications for years, but nothing shows up on mris, eegs, etc. Thank-you and God Bless!

Hi Laura,
A psychogenic sz. is also known as a psuedo sz. meaning a person is faking the sz. Sometimes a person will do it when they are under a lot of emotional problems, and they also have this type of sz. around people to get attention.
Check out this web page for more info.

http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/index.shtml#seizures

Here's wishing you well and May God Bless You and Your Family!

Sue

Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizure
 

Hi Aunt Laura-

I, too, am a newbie to this forum, and am thrilled at the many subjects available for review, study, and comment.

My wife and I just brought our son home from University Hospital where he was studied in their Neuro Medicine unit regarding the seizures he has been suffering for nearly a year. Our particular young man was diagnosed with the insidious combination of schizophrenia and obsessive-compulsive disorder a number of years ago, and we have been medicating him since as prescribed while also submitting him to the rigors of much regular psychotherapy.

The seizures commenced. We had no idea what to do, and in panic contacted our son's primary physicians to determine what we might do. Sedation was the prescribed method of treatment once his seizures commenced. We worried. We fretted. We videotaped events he endured thinking pictures would indeed be worth much more than thousands of words ineffective to adequately describe our son's events.

During an event, his eyes would roll up in his head, his arms and legs would generally become fixed permitting at best a shuffling gait if he was on his feet, his head would thrash as if on a gimbel rotating through every axis imaginable, sometimes his arms and legs would thrash, and his utterances were reduced below the range of word vocalizations to mere guttural sounds. He would cry, and as he cried, his vocalizaitons would become a keening display of anguish, for this our brilliant young man was locked in an episode beyond his control and he seemingly knew it. What to do..... what to do.

We were referred to the hospital, one of only four in country credentialled for such neuro study. Our son was wired up with myriad elecytrodes to collect telemetry on all of his brain, cardiac, and respiratory function. Video monitoring was underway. All of this came together shortly after he began seizure and he continued thereafter for hours and hours on end, seemingly not to end. At last sedation was administered, and the seizure was arrested. So much data had been collected during those VERY long hours the doctors were both amazed and satisfied they had identified his situation.

Assurances were given to us that the seizure activity suffered by our son is VERY real and a by product of the stressors he encounters as he lives this so complicated mental illness profile, and yet we were told the seizures were non-epileptic, in fact, the seizures were Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures as the doctors labelled them only a couple of days ago. His medications, both anti-psychotics and anti-depressants were not the cause. Our son was definitely not putting on. No, there is no medication to inhibit the manifestation of seizures, no preventative. Our son was assured the continuation of his psychotherapeutic sessions is paramount as a means to learn strategies to attempt control of the seizure producing stressors. Bear in mind, stressors for him may be something as seemingly simple as the fact of a piece of lint being on someone's sleeve, the position of a light switch whether on or off, the selection of a meal item on a menu. All things and any thing may be a stressor.

We have quite a road ahead of us as a close knit family working to help our son through this complicated life he has been dealt and we are especially grateful for those of the medical community and our cadre of family and friends who gather close to help our son and help us strive to be helpful to him. Also, I was very grateful to "luck" upon this website and the forum structure it represents as an aid to these issues.

May you find hope, and peace, and the means to help and be helped in your situation.
God bless you all,
Mark56 :grouphug:

nonepileptic seizures
 

Mark,
We too underwent a rough time getting diagnosed with NES (nonepileptic seizures). Fortunately, more people understand better than the above person who says it's faking. They have no idea how much harm that causes. The real cases of fake is rare. My daughter was almost overdosed twice with meds to stop her NES. Because it doesn't show on the EEG or MRI - it's tougher for medical people to understand. Psychologists can't deal very well with all the medical implications - so it's a catch 22. We also live in Colorado. She was diagnosed at Swedish, they gave the NES diag. and said "seeking counseling" meanwhile it was multiple trips to the ER and a nightmare. The medical/psychological world is very unprepared to deal with this. Many did try, but ultimately it was us as parents who had to research and keep looking for answeres.
She did not have as severe psychological issues as your son, but it was still very complicated.
I encourage you to search under gluten allergy, seizures, wheat allergy seizures. I stumbled upon this last September and she has not had one seizure since. She's had some exposure and it has caused muscle tremors. I recent found an article about gluten and mental illness. It addressed many of her symptoms. Google drkaslow and look under gluten brain connection. I am too new on the site to give a link. It took us 3 years to see some improvement, I hope yours is much sooner!

Hang in there and keep looking. You are your son's best advocate!

Are you sure these are not backward? I think the definition of #1 goes with #2 and vice versa. Tattoo

1) Psychogenic - which is related to physical problems,
such as cardiac, diabetic, hypoglycemia, etc.

2) Physiologic - which is related to psychological factors,
such as trauma, abuse, emotional issues, etc.

Such seizures are not faked and they are not "crazy".
However under proper treatment and care they can
be controlled and maintained.

Hi Mark,
Welcome to the forum! I've had epilepsy for 38 yrs. I began at the age of 10 yrs. old and I started to have seizures on the right temporal lobe. I would have absence (petit mal) seizures and then 2 yrs. later I started to have complex partial seizures. The neuro couldn't figure out what was causing my seizures and I would often cry for no reason and they thought I was faking the seizures at first. All this happened back in the early 1970's before they had video e.e.g.'s It wasn't until they did a veeg that they found I had lesions on the right temporal lobe of my brain which was triggering seizures and it would make me cry, lose my temper, and be very emotional. After seeing a neuropsychologist, Epileptologist and neurosurgeon to have brain surgery I found out that many people with Right temporal lobe epilepsy can become very emotional. After I had brain surgery done to help reduce my seizures in 1994 things went so much better for me and they found brain damage on both the right and left temporal lobe that can cause the problems your son has had.
You mentioned that light bothered your son this means your son could be photosensitive meaning certain color lights could trigger a seizure. I had a special type of e.e.g. done where they would flash different color strobe lights one at a time and they found that florscent green, amber and bright white were the colors that would trigger seizures for me. Depression is all part of epilepsy and often people feel suicidial do to their epilepsy medications they take. I've found taking vitamin B12 one of the best things to reduce the seizures. Also tell your son to stay away from anything with nutra sweet in it like diet soda and stay away from cell phones. Both nutra sweet and cell phones cause to much electrical activity in the brain and it can trigger seizures. cell phones also can cause brain tumors and shrink the hippocampus (memory) of the brain causing short term memory loss.
I wish you and your son only the best of luck. May God Bless You and Your Family!

Sue

izophreniaPLEASE! check into the potential conection with celiac disease/nonceliac gluten sensitivity...check out pubmed for the articles conecting guten and schizophrenia.....with your situation being so very serious...please check this out!

Migrating to Different Med Regimen
 

Thank you all for responses and replies once I wrote regarding our son. After the video/telemetry study at the University Hospital and we learned his seizures were psychogenic non epileptic, we next quizzed his doctors regarding a possible change up on his medications. In fact, he was keenly interested himself. After all, he is the individual living this illness picture from the inside.

Thus, we engaged with Doctor's consent and participation in a titrative migration from the set of meds then being used to control psychosis to another med. Interestingly, his seizures are seeming to abate and some emotive display has been restored, a better life than the flatness he was displaying.

Maybe, maybe we are on a right path.
All for now,
Mark56

Hi Mark,
I'm glad to hear that you were able to get some help for your son and I feel you played it smart questioning the neuro. To find out what meds would be the best for your son tell the Neuro to do a DNA test on your son. By doing the DNA test they can find what meds will help your son the most with the least side effects. I will let you know that the Dr. might say we don't do DNA testing but take my word they are just saying that because they want to make extra money for themselves by putting your son on more meds. DNA testing has been out for at least 2 yrs. if not longer.
I wish you and your family only the best and May God Bless All of You!

Sue

Correction of my mistake of the error in blue
 

Correction from my post from earlier
in BLUE - thanks to Tattoo ...


You are referring to Todd's Paresis aka Todd's Paralysis
which follows after a seizure (usually a Tonic-clonic,
aka Grand Mal), and is a gradual recovery:

Todd's Paresis / Todd's Paralysis from Wiki

I suffer from this sporadically and it can be very scary.

NOW in regards to:

Pseudoseizures - is an old terminology, they now use
NES - Non-Epileptic Seizures and PNES - Physiologic
Nonepileptic Seizures

It falls into two categories:

1) Psychogenic - which is related to psychological factors,
such as trauma, abuse, emotional issues, etc.

2) Physiologic - which is related to physical problems,
such as cardiac, diabetic, hypoglycemia, etc.

Such seizures are not faked and they are not "crazy".
However under proper treatment and care they can
be controlled and maintained.

========================

There IS such thing as "FAKE SEIZURES" - to which
people use to gain attention by faking such and have
mental problems; hence why the old terminology is being
discontinued because of confusion. Instead they now
call this Non-Epileptic Attack Disorder - NEAD.


Hope all this information helps!

DNA test
 

what type of DNA test.our son is going in for a VEEG in a few weeks to monitor is seizeurs will this dna test help

Sharon you are a wealth of information I find your posts interesting important and non-repetitive...You always are able to come up with interesting points and relevant information...thanks

Rhian

Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizures
 

:

:hug:Dear Aunt Laura,
I have suffered from Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizures for the past six years.
In 2004, I had a heart attack and had to have a valve replacement. A yr. after this, I began to have what was diagnosed as anxiety attacks, or panic attacks.
I then began to go to Mental Health where I have been on meds and have talk therapy. I had to retire from my job because the seizures rendered me incapable of teaching. Anyway, the Medical University of South Carolina, did every kind of test they could think of to see if I had epilepsy. But there's the problem, sometimes the PNES is actually epilepsy, and sometimes the epilepsy is actually PNES. It's a very fine line.

My triggers are, loud music with very loud bass, being upset, and especially being startled. Being startle can send me into a seizure that is a real you know what. Oh, and there is also one person who is a trigger, and I can't even walk into my old school.

My PNESs actually look like epileptic seizures, but when I am given an EEG,
it comes out normal. (Go figure).

I would suggest that you go to Google or Bing and search all you can on PNES, because for a long time, I was told it was all in my head. (Please excuse the pun). It was also discovered that I was bi polar. I don't know if that has anything to do with the seizures, but I thought I would put it in there.

Thanks for letting me tell you that your hubby isn't the only one. There are more of us out there than we think.

Sincerely,
Snorkelswimmer

PS: Epilepsy drugs and talk therapy have helped alot.

Hi Snorkelswimmer,

Welcome to the forum! There is often a connection between heart problems and seizures. From what you are discribing you maybe having audio seizures and that's where certain sounds will trigger seizures. Along with stress. I can't believe that they won't let you teach anymore that is not right! I've been working in a public school as a Teacher Aide for 25 yrs. and the only problem I had was when I had brain surgery done and my boss complained about me being out of work for 3 wks. for recovery.
I have family that has had triple by pass done as well as valuve replacement done on their heart and each time this happened in my family that person was depressed. Take my word it's all part of the heart surgery.

Before I had the surgery done I had a lot of tests done and my Epileptologist, and Neurosurgeon only found a problem on the right temporal lobe of my brain but when they opened me up for surgery they found 3 different areas in my brain that were triggering seizures. The problem was that the damage was to deep in the brain to pick up with any test and this may be what's going on with you.
My best advice to you is to see an Epileptologist if you are not seeing one yet at an Epilepsy Center which are usually at University Hopsitals and also see a Neuropsychologist who will do tests on you and find out what's going on in detail. These 3 Drs. work together as a team and come to a final conclusion as to what's really happened. I wish you the best of luck and May God Bless You!

Sue

Possible Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures???
 

Hopeing that someone can give me some insight here, because I'm pretty much at my wits end...

My fiance was diagnosed as an epileptic at 11 years old, he experienced absense serizures. He is currently 34 years old and is still experiencing problems. Every day (now up to twice a day) he has episodes on "spacing out" These last anywhere from 10-45 minutes, usually lasting 30 minutes at a time. During the episodes he is able to respond, but responses don't always make sense (for example, while watching a football game and experiencing a space out, he responds "everyone" when asked who is winning) His eyelids droop, his head rolls to one side, his speech becomes slow and slurred. People that are not aware of his condition assume he is exteremy innebriated. After his space out is complete, it seems like a switch was flipped and he is bag to normal in an instant. He usually has no recollection of anything that happened while he was spaced out. He is currently on Tegretol, Kepra, and an anti depressant twice a day. (Not sure of the dosages off the top of my head, but he's pretty much maxed on the teg and kepra) No other medical problems. His doctor is unsure that his episides are epilepsy related (I brought a video of his space outs for our last appointment.) He is not working now, because his doctor thinks that the space outs are stress related and psychogenic. We have an ambulatory EEG scheduled for next Monday. A video EEG is not available in our area, so I will take it upon myself to video tape the process to share with his doctor.

I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing something similar? What were your outcomes? I am stressed beyond my means right now. We can no longer do things as a couple because of the space outs, we are resigned to staying home. Our relationship has definitely taken a toll. He is frustrated because he doesn't know what is going on, I am frustrated because I feel like I 'lose' him for good parts of our day.

Any help you can give is greatly appreciated!

Cassie

Hi Cassie,

Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry to hear that finace is having seizures that are lasting so long. I started having absence seizures when I was 10 yrs. old and they led to complex partial seizures. What you are describing sounds like absence status seizures and that means the seizure is lasting much longer than it should and there's a possibility that it can be causing more brain damage. If a person has a seizure of any type and it lasts for 15 min. or longer it is known as a status seizure. A few yrs. ago when I was put on neurontin it caused me to have absence status seizures where I would be out of it for 30 min. to 3 hrs. this caused me to have more brain damage.
I have taken tegretol and keppra and I found that the keppra increased my seizures. Your fiance should get of the anti depresent because it's going to mess up his tegretol and keppra and he needs to understand that depression is part of epilepsy and his seizure meds. I've found taking vitamin B12 1000 mcg. once a day a big help. to reduce my seizures.

Stress and lack of sleep are the 2 main things that can trigger seizures for a person because the stress effects the hormones which in turn will cause seizures. I've had many e.e.g's done along with cat scans, MRI's , Spect scans, angiograms, and Pet scans and the Drs. only found I had to many brain cells on the right temporal lobe but when I had surgery done to reduce my seizures they found more brain damage that was never shown on any of the tests because it was to deep in my brain and this could be the reason why the Dr. isn't getting the detail of what's going on with your fiance brain. If you haven't started get a calendar and keep track of all the seizures by writing down what time the seizure happened along with a description of the seizure. Take note if your fiance is sick with a cold or virus because that can always trigger more seizures and also take note of the weather and if there's a low pressure in the weather sometimes a person can have seizures when there's a low pressure. My best advice to you is to have your fiance go to an Epilepsy Center and see a Epileptologist (Dr. specializing in epilepsy) I've gotten the most help from an Epileptologist and I'm on fewer meds. I also found out to stay away from both nutra sweet and cell phones because both of these can cause more electrical activity in the brain and trigger seizures for some people.
I wish you and your fiance only the best of luck and don't give up on the relationship. I've been married for 24 yrs. now and my husband knew I had epilepsy before we got married.
Wishing the both of you the best of luck and May God Bless You Both!

Sue

Nice to meet you
 

Cassie,

Hello and welcome to NeuroTalk. I too have had seizures since I was 10. Up until the last few year I never had a doctor that would assist me in my epilepsy. Sue gave you a great deal of information to go by. Back when I would have a spell it would not last long, but sometimes I would lay down and sleep for a small amount of time, but it seem more to me. I too am on Keppra which really has not harm me, but we are all different. My neurologist sent me down to Dallas and I saw an Epileptologist who did some test and ending up have surgery on my brain, removing a scar mass off the left side of my brain. I was the answer for me in all these years. My neurologist is fixing to ease me off my meds, (Keppra & Lamital). Mostly what I had was petit-mal seizures, then I have also had grandmals some. When I was in a spell I could hear others talking to me asking questions and I had the answer, but I had the words formed to soeak to them but could not move my mouth.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Please keep us updated on the results.

Again welcome, looking forward to seeing you around.

Darlene :hug:

Sue,

Thanks so much for the information. Will be doing some more research on the Vitamin B... he just had blood work done, so I'll be looking at the results and see what his Hcy was. I noticed you are in NY? Do you have any suggestions for an Epilepotologist? We will be going to Strong Hospital in Rochester NY to get his EEG done, and are trying to get into the center.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your kind words and encouragement. He is my whole world, and I guess that this is the 'better or worse, sickness and in health" part, right? Thank you, and I'll let you know what happens...

Cassie

Hi Cassie,

I can't believe that you are going to Strong Memorial Hospital because that's the same place that I go to and that's where I had my last surgery done. I had my first surgery done in Syracuse at the University hospital and I wasn't to pleased with them at all. You are going to a great place in Rochester I've been going there since I was 10 yrs. old and then I've tried different locations but I always end up going back to Strong Memorial.
Do me a favor and check your private messages in the top right hand corner of the screen. Here's wishing you and your fiance the best of luck and May God Bless You!

Sue

Laura and Mark
 

I was diagnosed with a seizure disorder 8 ys ago, and haven't been back here in a couple years, or even researched seizures for a couple years, so this is new to me, but makes sense. And I'm so glad! :)

When my head blew up 8 ys ago, on my second trip to the ER in a month, I was unconscious and seizing the entire way from home to the hospital. My neuro witnessed my status epilepticus in the ER. And yet follow-up testing with a video-EEG and sleep-deprived EEG etc never showed any instability or anything. An epileptologist at the time told me I didn't have epilepsy, which didn't make sense because I definitely had seizures! I still was treated with anti-epilepsy medication (keppra, which reduced the seizures from unconscious grand mal seizures to periodic partials, and then plus lyrica). Back then, it was clear that the seizures were related to my hormones, but that's all I knew.

Now, with my health getting worse following a bad year of stress, I am having breakthrough seizures that are more clearly related to physiological things in my body. I'm even wondering if the Status episode and other major seizure episodes weren't also related to these things. I can't explain it all because that's what I'm back researching, but things that appear to be malfunctioning and are hypothetically contributing (and probably even related, but I'm not yet sure how): sugar sensitivity/insulin, vvv low blood pressure at night may induce my body to over-respond, low blood volume and/or too much salt (not sure), over-sensitivity to adrenaline (almost had a seizure at the dentist and now know to ask for the numbing agent without epinephrine!), etc.

Mark, I wanted to add that there are times, like after I cheated and had pie at Tgiving or too much salt (long story, but doc told me to), my brain was SUPER-startleable (ha, not a word), such that I felt like my brain was ready to explode and light or noise or significant movement would make my heart race and my head start to spin. Sleeping upright helps during those times, fwiw.

In short, I'm interested in learning more about physiological reasons for seizures!

Todd's Paralysis
 

Hi my name is Mona and i just join and i read that you have Todd's Paralysis if you are willing to talk to me i would appreciate it thanks for your information

Sorry for my late reply Laura
 

Laura, I think all of the world of psychogenic seizure care givers and patients would truly like to know the answer. Our son locks up when through his combination of Schizoaffective Disorder and OCD the thoughts which torment him cycle repeatedly in a loop in his mind and he strives to regain control/maintain order. The resulting seizure can turn him into a quaking statute which repeats nonsense syllables without ceasing. Being fixed in such a pose he cannot move of his own will and we must sedate him and get him into bed. Not a good thing.

A real revelation was produced when at our son's request we worked with his psychiatrist after a stay in the hospital to monitor his seizure cycles via elecroencephalgraph monitoring [a plethora of leads from his skull] and video monitoring which only confirmed non-epileptic psychogenic seizures. Working with his psychiatrist, we re-addressed his meds. Weaned him off of Zyprexa and Clomipramine then worked him up to a strong therapeutic dosage of Abilify. His seizures have DRAMATICALLY abated. Not altogether, but a dramatic reduction. Even some of his emotiveness resumed. On the other meds he was pretty much just a zombie with no emotion at all.

Despite the continuation of the psychoses, our son has become much more communicative, working well with his physicians, and participating at home. He continues to have his dramatic fears and must have his safety zone i.e our home and/or our presence. We do have hope of integrating him into a support program which will allow him outside the home interaction with others in an effort to reintegrate him with society. Much work remains ahead.

I hope my horrid delay in getting back to you has not lost you in the scheme of things here. I am sorry for my delay.
Mark56:grouphug:

Hi Mona!
 

Although our son does not have what has been DXed as Todd's Paralysis, when he has been in seizure, he has most assuredly been fixed in place like a quaking statue. We don't understand it much, other than to recognize as I just posted to Laura that his meds seemed to exacerbate the phenomenon and its occurrence.

If you were trying to get another poster to reply, sorry if I jumped in unawares.

Caring,
Mark56:grouphug: