My Horrible ER Visit
 

Okay so I went to the ER a couple of days ago since my back spasm, turned into a total body spasm and for whatever reason my skin decided it wasn't happy unless I was cuddled in absolute soft and plushness. It's GA the heat and humidity when dressed like a polar bear just isn't going to work. So it got to the point of I just couldn't wait to see my PCP, he didn't have anything available until the end of the week and this was just the start of it.

So off to the ER we go, my mom brought me down. The ER doc looked me over, got a chest x-ray because I was having difficulty breathing and they couldn't seem to understand that it was the muscles around the lungs making it difficult not the lungs themselves. But either way it was clear, no obvious problems blood work showed some inflammation but didn't really indicate what was inflamed or why. She consulted my neurologist who suggested it was likely the virus that's spreading around down here, take some advil and drink plenty of fluids, get plenty of rest.

Okay, until I tried to follow the doctor's orders. By the next evening I was in so much pain I couldn't even think straight. My entire left side was lit up like a Christmas tree with pain. I could only just barely manage to catch my breath in between chest spasms. I couldn't even say which part of the left side hurt the worse, I mean it felt like someone had just divided my body completely in half and proceeded to only run over, beat, stab, burn, scrap...etc... the left half of my body.

My mom came and brought me to the ER again, by the time we drove down there, what I had already thought couldn't get worse, did get worse from all the little bumps in the roads and other little minor vibrations and such that comes from car rides. So when they called me back for triage I couldn't even begin to articulate what was wrong. My mind was kind of soupy jello and only focused on, breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out, wait for spasm to finish, breath again...

My mom was doing most of the talking. And explained to the triage nurse. Look my daughter has MS, she's prone to hypersensitivity, she has terrible spasms that are just barely controlled by her home medications but anything else happens to her and they don't work at all. On and on she goes trying to get some understanding from the triage nurse since she's the one who puts through the immediate symptoms and passes them along to the doctor.

The place is packed, we have a long wait ahead of us. We were there for about 2 hours when my left ear started ringing and the right side of my head split open with pain, pretty much taking away my ability to focus on breathing, so my lips started going blue. My mom manages to get me rushed to the back somehow for an EKG and some blood work drawn. The nurse drawing the blood doesn't care that I'm clearly dehydrated and already have been poked a few times from the day before. She puts a straight line in to draw her blood work and shots me back out to the waiting area.

By now my mother is ready to head to another hospital further south, or call an ambulance something, anything. My lips are blue, I'm barely maintaining consciousness and I stopped sweating about an hour ago. And since my hold on my consciousness is so frail, my body is now vibrating and jerking around like a marionette with a drunken master.

We finally get called back, for good this time. And now they have to put in an IV line which should have been put in when the nurse was drawing the blood earlier but wasn't. She took prime property on the veins and left the other nurses with little to deal with. Especially since I was even more dehydrated at that point and far more rigid in the limbs. Finally that had to call the manager of the nursing department over to use an ultrasound to find a useable vein, barely useable, but useable all the same.

I got fluids started right away, and couldn't help but think "Hurray this nightmare should be over now!!!" Well I had no idea it was just beginning.
My first doctor ah... such a sweet sweet doctor. I adored her, and it really had nothing to do with her prescribing narcotics for pain because honestly they didn't work for nothing on an empty stomach and a system getting flushed out by fluids. She was just very tender handed, calm, soothing and reassuring. Come to find out I had a terrible UTI as at least one of the things wrong with me. And she asked, did I notice anything... No, nothing, not until the pain started and it started as spasms not anything to do with a UTI, I was using the restroom fine, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, not using it particularly more or less. I couldn't believe I had one, I've only ever had one a long long time ago and it was given to me by a gyno.

Anyways she offers to admit me there, or she could send me to a hospital further south that's part of my physicians group. Option 2, option 2... why didn't I pick option 2. But no, in my sudden mostly pain free state and not quite fully oxygenated brain, I say I'll stay there.

Enter day 2 at still down in the ER bay since the hospital is packed and dippy the wonder nurse and doctor 2. My DH came down to relieve my mom from watching me at the hospital, and gets handed a menu to bring into my room to order breakfast for me. We pick out a few things that seem like they might be appeitizing, and place our order, it should be dropped off in about 45 mins. Perfect, puts it before pill time, finally I'll have something in my system. Well our breakfast doesn't show up, nurse comes and gives me my pills anyways despite my best efforts to tell her that 2 of them can't be taken on an empty stomach, please, fruit juice even I don't care just something in the stomach before those hit.

Naturally she ignores me and says I have the IV fluids I'll be fine. So down the hatch they have to go, and 10 minutes later I'm ready to find her so I can puke on her shoes. Instead I'm left dry heaving for about 20 minutes. And as it turns out our tray was just outside the door when she was giving me the pills, because it wasn't picked up the cafeteria place thought it meant I ordered things not on my diet plan and took it back. So we had to have another tray sent up, all told it was 3 hours before I got breakfast. And after dry heaving through 20 minutes in the middle of that, I wasn't especially hungry when I did get it.

Well then the nurse has the audacity to tell an assisting nurse how we better do better when ordering out lunch, somehow it was "our fault" that our breakfast didn't get delivered for 3 hours. :mad: , but okay fine whatever. I figure I should be able to try and catch a little bit of sleep now. I wasn't able to sleep at all the night before, maybe, just maybe, now that I have my usual meds back in me, and a few bits of food, the morphine should work now and I can at least sleep for a little while. Just as I'm finally able to find a comfortable spot on a very uncomfortable ER bed, dippy the wonder nurse comes back in, she forgot to give me my skelaxin. And she has to go on this huge diatribe about how powerful it is and how nobody really uses it any more and on and on and on to absolutely no point other than making it impossible for me to quickly swallow the forgotten pill and go to sleep.

So exhausted still, and on an uncomfortable bed, fully awaken by the nurse, the morphine they gave me still wants to wear off that quickly. I never asked for morphine but as yet I haven't had a clear enough thinking moment to try and explain that narcotics don't really work well on me, they never have. So I ring the bell, literally crying and begging in pain. Pleading for someone anyone to help me. It's completely unbearable and frankly my brain at that point had become nothing but a bowl of hot jello, there was nobody home and no chance of thinking.

Back and forth we go on this. Somewhere in there I get sent for a CT scan. And another chest x-ray. And after again I call the nurse because I'm just really in too much pain, honestly it was my mom who hit the button since I couldn't even manage that much. Doctor number 2 comes in. She rolls me on to my back, I'm still crying begging for help with every breath I can get. She starts to "feel my stomach" or as it felt like to me "fluff my bed through my abdomen". I loose it, its the last breath that I have but I let out a scream I mean holy mother of god, still it was stupid because now I can't get the lungs to reinflate right away.

The doctor actually grabbed my arm, yelled at me to open my eyes and look at her, that she wasn't hurting me, I was just seeking drugs that's all. Typical drug seeking behavior. That's it. There was nothing wrong with me, so just knock it off right now. (Gone as my mind was I still couldn't help but think oh why did I waste my final breath on a scream, come on lung inflate... inflate so I can say something to her.) Well my mom and husband both were in the room at the time and my mom decided to say something. Telling the doctor that the only narcotics I have been on are the ones that this hospital has given me. There is no way I am suffering from withdrawl.

The doctor has the gall to tell my mom, "That you know of." Now my mom and husband both are like... "No, it's not just that we know of, we know she isn't on narcotics." My mom tells her, "Look she's half blind, she can't drive, she can barely walk, she's disable with MS." The doctor still refuses to listen to either of them and continues to lecture me about the severity of drug use. How I'm too young to be putting my family through this. And after a few karate chops to my back, that actually left a bruise or two. She leaves saying I can only have tordol or motrin for the pain.

I don't care, get rid of the pain, that's all I care about. The nurse comes back in to the room a little while later... Yippee tordol time right... no the doctor still hasn't put in the order for it. An hour later she finally has the orders put into the system. The woman came after the morphine had worn off, tormented and tortured me really, and then left me in fading in and out of conscouiness from pain for an hour. To prove what point is all I really want to know. What did that prove to the doctor?

Well finally, the order comes up for the tordol and I get a new nurse who comes to give it to me, she wasn't even supposed to be at work yet but came in since she knew it was busy. She basically told dippy the wonder nurse that I was now her patient. That nurse had seen me before and I was never so glad for a friendly and familiar face at that point. Once the tordol started to hit my vein it was like blissful relief. It took a bit longer for the worse of it. But it went into effect immediately and lasted me 6 hours easily. I didn't even have to hit the call button before my friendly nurse was back again with another injection of it.

Then they found me a nice comfy bed. And I got pampered and coddled by all the nurses while I was still in the ER bay. It was great, until the doctor came back by again. To feel my stomach again. If I'd had the breath to say it I would have told her thank you for fluffing my bed for me again. So now thanks to her hamfisting me and the hepherin shots I'm pretty much black and blue all over my abdomen and across my back.

But after she left again, the nurses came back by to pamper me some more so it was a little bit better than the first time.

I finally got my release. Woohoo, they only gave me an antibiotic though, so I asked, what about something for the pain. The nurse asked me if I didn't have anything for pain aside from my usual home meds. I was like no, no I don't. She rolled her eyes and said one minute we'll fix this right away. So the doctor finally conceded to a script for the tordol. Me and the nurses had already been joking around about how a disabled crippled person can get their hands on drugs when they can't really leave their house unless someone gives them a ride.

We came up with several ideas, like we do it freaky where I live, I just roll myself out to the corner and I'm like "hey.... psst hey... I'll let you push me around for 5 lo'tabs." I just have to watch that the bloods don't come over the crips territory. They need to put some bandaids on before the come into my hood. I have do have a cat who is great at catching moles, but what no one knows is really the moles have been stuffed with pills by the squirrels so they won't get eaten by the cat. He's a very smart cat, he knows what he needs to do to keep his momma happy. Watching my 2 yr old GB is really a premise I make her work in a secret sweatshop I got set up in the back room cleverly disguised as a "craft room". I force her to make a bunch of things which I then sell on the net and have the funds deposited into a secret bank acct.

We had some fun, and I found out that one of the reasons why the nurses came to pamper me was because they don't like that doctor much either. And for nothing being wrong with me, on the discharge paperwork. I had a UTI, kidney infection, renal insufficenties, apparently pneumonia (don't know if I do have or do not have pneumonia) and dehydration. So yeah, her hamfisting my stomach was going to hurt like a mother I don't care if you're dependent on drugs or not. You don't go around poking infected kidneys.

I just have to remember to call the hospital on Monday in case they don't call me before hand for their "Survey of care". Because that doctor was truly out of line. I mean I have never felt... I don't even have the words for it... I mean, I just... Yes I used to smoke, and I smoked for 15 years, do I miss it, eh a bit. Have a had a cigarette here or there when I'm around a bunch of smokers, yeah I might partake in one, do I have to run out and buy a pack of cigarettes afterwards or even feel the urge to... Nope. I just really don't have much of an addictive personality. I took narcotics for 6 years till I finally got my MS diagnosis, they switched out the narcotics with gabapentin and upped my relaxant to skelaxin. I was perfectly fine with that. No signs or anything of withdrawl from the lortabs. So I mean, to be talked to, and treated that way, to have my husband and mother witness it on top of it, for my husband to be brought to near tears to because of the pain I was in that he couldn't help or do anything for as she continued to just pretty much abuse me. There's just... there's no way to express how I feel.... And then adding insult to injury, not 5 minutes after she left I ended up crapping myself I was in so much pain I didn't even feel anything until there was just a mess. Which was another humiliation all on to itself again, since I was still in so much pain that I really had to call my husband back into the room to help me clean myself up. I figured that would be the lesser evil of asking a stranger to wipe me clean.

I should have gone with option 2 and gone to my health groups hospital. Oh why oh why didn't I go there. :( Trying to save on an ambulance bill... and not thinking it was too bad a hospital there... bad bad call on my part.

Oh my gosh. What an ordeal.

Maybe I am just way too naïve, but I just can't imagine how a medical professional could or would jump to the conclusion of "drug seeking" without any evidence of such, like blood work that indicated it, track marks that they talk about on TV, or anything to support jumping to such a conclusion so immediately.

I must admit that there probably ARE people like that but I think everyone should be taken seriously and treated. I am sure there must be ways for them to determine the difference between someone truly in need of relief from pain and differentiate them from those that are simply seeking drugs.

I am so angry FOR you. I am ready to go to the hospital administrator on your behalf.

I am not sure what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would probably want to try out some kick boxing on that doc, but like you said, you were in no position to even speak, much less take "corrective" action. That doc and nurse needs an attitude adjustment for sure.

I am so sorry you had such an awful experience and what you wrote is REALLY awful.

I am not sure I could just let it go after being home and better. I would have to do something,.... write a letter, report it to some one, something for sure.

I am sitting here thinking what would I do if I had been treated that way? I know I would be as angry as one can possibly get. I am so angry for you I can't even express it.

So, how are you feeling NOW? I sure hope you are feeling better physically.

I have never given any thought to the topic you have brought to light before reading your post. I realize that "drug addiction" is a big problem from what I hear on the news, but I think such over reaction, thinking EVERYONE that comes through the door is a drug addict seeking meds is not helpful to anyone.

If that doc had been of any quality, they should be able to determine by physical exam if someone is really in pain verses someone that is just seeking drugs.

I am rambling because I am so astounded by what you had to endure.

I'm pretty shocked, too. Was this a county hospital? The Admin needs to know what kind of doctor's they are letting practice in their facility.

What if you had been a relative of someone with some "pull"? Or had media connections? That hospital and ultimately the offending doctor could be in a world of hurt.

You had some witnesses (Mom and DH). I would ruffle some feathers about this. And, I would demand an itemized bill and copies of what exactly they documented regarding your visit. The doctor's notes would be especially interesting.

Starznight, I am appalled with what you had to put up with.

I agree with what Kitty has suggested.

If you want to, I suggest that you get as much documentation about how you were (mis)treated in the hospital as you can (the fact that Mom and DH were witnesses could well help) and lodge an official complaint with the boss of the hospital.

If for no other reason, that might help other patients to avoid the totally unprofessional standard of care that you experienced.

:hug:

Sometime you might have to tell family members to speak up for you if they see something really off happening..

I had to speak up at an eye dr appt for my mom as the dr was going to insert her special lens without any prep or moisture that is required.. granted he was not familiar with this oversized lens and it was an emergency eye check..
But still he should have asked before just trying to put it in her eye.

Dear Starznight,

It has been several hours since I read your post and I am still reeling about how you were treated.

I sure hope this is an isolated incident and not a prelude of what is down the road for any and all patients that present to a medical professional and facility in pain.

Is everyone going to be assumed to be a drug seeker if they are in pain, dismissed as such, and guilty until somehow the patient can prove their innocence?

There are many people that are on prescribed pain killers (NOT addicts) due to chronic pain as many here are. Does that mean that everyone will be suspected of seeking drugs in the future?

It appears that the attitude being taught in medical professions is that ALL patients lie. Whatever the patient tells you, it is only partially true at best.

For instance, if a doctor asks how many cups of coffee one drinks per day, or how many glasses of wine, .... if the patient says 2, then they assume it is 4 or more, that the patient is answering not truthfully, but in a manner to avoid being chastised.

The patient is now always assumed to be untruthful about everything. This pattern is very disturbing and upsetting and will only interfere with getting proper care.

Personally, I am not going to waste my time going to a doctor seeking medical care and then tie their hands by lying to them. I am going to be direct, full disclosure, good or bad, if I want them to be able to treat me in the proper way for whatever my condition.

If they chastise me about something, I speak up or I change providers. Their job is to provide care, not judge. I won't try to count how many times a provider that was not my normal physician, will attribute my extra pounds to whatever is ailing me. They will totally ignore the fact that it is a chronic condition that began when I was a tiny little thing of normal weight, a super low BMI, very "fit", could take them down easily if needed, but some will say, if you lost weight, you wouldn't have this condition. I want to go ballistic. I politely say that I know that excess pounds are not helping any condition, but it did not cause the condition, nor will the condition disappear if I lost weight. I had it when I weighed about 105 pounds. Then I turn the tables and chastise THEM, saying if you would "fix me" than I could and would be more active and I wouldn't have these extra pounds. (Yes, I am now VERY sedentary, not by choice, and hence, the added pounds.)

This is not a very good example but there are only two things I get chastised for and that is one of them.

Most members here know that I can not drink anything alcoholic at all as it puts me under the table and almost in a coma. My body just can't handle alcohol of any kind. I tried to have a "before dinner" drink at a family gathering for a holiday many years ago and my head almost fell in my plate when we ate. I felt terrible. THAT is why I don't drink.

I am guessing now, after your experience with that doc about drugs, that docs probably don't believe me when I say I NEVER drink anything alcoholic. The assumption is the patient never tells the truth. It doesn't matter what the topic area, they just don't take us seriously when we respond to their questions. It is assumed we are not being honest.

All that ramble to say I am still EXTREMELY upset about how you were treated. Someone needs to put a halt to the attitude in the medical profession that patients are dishonest. Maybe some are,... but that is far different than assuming everyone is dishonest, whether it be about drugs, alcohol, diet, pain, or anything.

Have you ever looked at the scales most doctor offices have for how much you drink? Or smoke? They basically have it as you don't drink at all, or you drink 1-2 drinks a week, some places even only give the option of 0 drinks or 1-2 drinks a day.

I might... might... if I'm having a really good day and push around my pill schedule enough... have a few drinks on Thanksgiving, Christmas and/or New Year's... I won't tell the doctors that I don't drink alcohol, because well... I do. But at the same time even if you averaged the drinks I have on the holiday's there's no way they even come close to any of the offered scales to choose from. So I'm forced to lie from the get go, just filing in the forms... I either lie and say that I don't drink at all, or I have to lie and say that I drink FARRRR more than I do.

Thankfully I quit smoking, as that was another one... you could only list the number of packs you had a day. Sometimes I smoked a quarter of a pack, sometimes I smoked a half a pack, rarely did I ever smoke a whole pack. Averaged all out and I'd say I smoked about 7 cigarettes a day. (Like I said I really don't have an addictive personality, I have a habitual personality that without the addicting 'sensor' or whatever it is in the brain that says YES YES MORE. It's simple to change a habit and quit whatever I need to quit doing.)

Caffeine is another one... I can drink 1000mgs of caffeine one day, loading up on basically nothing but caffeinated drinks to get my fluids in for the day, and the next day I can drink nothing but good ol' water and nothing, except a bit more excitability on my part. Caffeine calms me down, but even then I don't really NEEED to have caffeine. But they don't give you a way to explain it, and then it gets put into their computer files as little check boxes by the nurses that say you either smoke too much, drink too much, or are too caffeinated.

Whatever happened to the old days when the doctors would actually write, or the attending nurse, would type up your personal experience. Your symptoms, how you felt, what was wrong with YOU. Where your symptoms weren't regulated to little check boxes on a computer screen, where you're asked to grade you're pain... 1-10 with a little emoji chart in case you weren't sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure if I'm screaming and crying in pain, that the nurse shouldn't have to ask me what level my pain is... or worse still refer to an emoji chart to see if I match the sad face, proving I'm really in that much pain.

And sure they'll say, "Well the ER's are over run, we simply can't take the time with each and every patient to jot down every little thing, we just need the main points and move on..."

Well aren't the ER's kind of overrunning themselves? I can't count the number of times I have had to make return visits to the ER's because instead of getting better from their prescribed treatment I get worse. And it almost always turns out to be the doctor simply didn't take the time to read all the symptoms and do the proper checks before prescribing a treatment and releasing me. And I'm not talking about things like the common cold or the flu. I'm talking about getting pneumonia, that was probably bronchitis when I went to the see the doctor but he ignored me when I said I didn't want a cough suppressant and gave me one anyways that I thought was an exporrant (sp?). Worse of all it was on a Friday that I started feeling badly, I couldn't get into my doctor and walk-in care was already closed. The ER was the only option for medical treatment. By Sunday I was right back up there with full blown pneumonia.

I mean I grew up in a far larger city than where I'm currently at. Yet our hospital was maybe half the size of the hospital here in town, with probably half the staff as well. Yet still there wasn't a long wait at the ER, you went in, you went to triage when it was your turn, they took your vitals while asking about your symptoms and if it was your first time their they'd ask about your history, or if it had been awhile they'd ask if anything had changed... Someone would bring you a blanket, or an ice pack or whatever you needed to feel comfortable while you waited as the triage nurse finished typing up your symptoms. And then you'd go and wait for a bit. Unless it was a full moon outside you normally got seen with in 30 minutes or so. The doctor would have your medical chart. Basically your history in his/her hand.

All without computers... or rather without what we think of as computers today... those computers basically did a glorified dewey decibel system to locate charts and images. And guess what, if the doctors thought you were scheming for drugs, as they did back then too, they simply picked up the phone and called the surrounding hospitals or pharmacies to see. Back then they could talk to each other... there was none of this HIPPA stuff to prevent them.

So now thanks to computers, and HIPPA reforms, we're all druggies as soon as we walk through the ER doors. I mean we must be, who else but a druggy would be willing to wait 2-4 hours to see a doctor in the middle of the night? And only drug withdrawl causes profuse sweating, pale cold and clammy skin, an accelerated heart rate, low blood pressure, and uneven resperations.... :eek: My GOD that sounds just like the symptoms of SHOCK, the kind that comes from being in intense amounts of pain.

I think I have officially crossed the bridge from feeling completely humiliated, to angry now. Thanks guys for helping me get my fight back. I spent most of the day just kind of hiding out in the bedroom. I got up for a few short walks but just wanted to bury my head under the covers. But yeah. Come Monday that hospital is going to get an earful about the doctor. That much is for sure. Too bad it's not a tiny county hospital but a sister hospital to a rather large branch down here. So I might not make much of a splash, but even a single drop of rain will make large ripples. :icon_twisted:

Dear Starznight,

Please don't get me started on the "electronic health record" or computer charting. My blood pressure can't take it. The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages in my opinion. I think I have ranted many times about it. And let's not even begin to mention how doctors have to fudge in their coding to get claims paid by insurance companies. Our electronic records become nothing more than check boxes of what NEEDS to be there to satisfy others, not a true depiction of our conditions or symptoms.

I totally agree with your post. I am really dating myself here, but I actually remember doctor's making "house" calls. And this was not in some little country town with Dr. Welby, this was in a BIG city.

I watched the downfall of medical care that began with the advent of the HMO many years ago. But I will stop here before I write a book on where and how medical care went sliding down a slippery hill.

Many times we think that there is nothing that can be done to change things and speaking out will get us nowhere, but if everyone would speak up, change will happen. You may not be the first to voice your concerns about your care, nor the last. Who knows how many others were treated in a similar manner by this physician. One thing I can say for sure is that if NO ONE speaks out, there will be no change.

There may have been patients prior to you that have spoken out and YOUR voice may be the tipping point to trigger change. If we all become complacent and say nothing, there is no reason for anything to improve. We MUST speak out.

And if nothing comes of it, at least you tried and had your say. Sometimes that at least will get some of it out of "your" system and put onto them.

Again, I am so truly upset about the care you deserved but did not get.

Wishing you much better care in the future and hoping you have a quick recovery from your recent need for emergency care. Hope your breathing is much better now.

unfortunately i'm not shocked by how you were treated. i'm sorry to say that it's the state of affairs nowadays. i've had some bad hospitalizations too.

even when you bring an advocate, or try to advocate for yourself, things can go wrong. i don't know why staff doesn't listen.

i would make a copy of your letter. send it to the CEO of the hospital and the director of nursing. you can go online to get the name/address. if you're as ****** as i was just reading your letter i'd also send it to your neuro, and the local newspaper.

and yes, please use the other hospital from now on. don't even let the ambulance take you anywhere else. and, suggest the first thing they should check is for a UTI.

i hope you'll be feeling better.

I am sorry the visit to the ER went so poorly.

When you decided to go, what did you expect for the staff to do? How could they have helped you with your scary and real symptoms? Maybe the doctor needed to rule out something other than mega MS.

In terms of needing food to take with a certain drug, why didn't your mother or husband go to a vending machine and buy something to keep you from getting nauseous?

Also, why were you not seen by the neurologist? Did you know a neurologist is required to be on staff at the hospital?

My large spasms go into overdrive when I fall and hurt myself or when trigeminal neurolgia rears its ugly head. ERs can be crazy places on the weekends and it sounds like your hospital was insane. I remember the helpless feeling of the staff nurse as every twenty seconds I had to stop talking, wait out the pain and then begin to converse. Even though everyone knew Demerol would be the solution, it took hours to finally be prescribed.

I needed assistance to use the bathroom and could not have DH help since I was in one of the bed bays. We asked a few times but no one helped. My nurse was so upset to come in and find I had wet the bed. Not at me, at the attendant who never helped.

Again, what were your expectations going in to the ER? What did you specifically want them to do?

Also, maybe you should call your neuro or whoever is on call and let them know you feel the need to go to the ER. When first diagnosed and totally new to the MS situation, my brother who is a neuro in another state called the hospital I was going to and had them alerted to be ready for me.

He then called my doctor. That is how I learned a neuro is on staff 24/7.

Expectations
 

Dear Aarcyn,

I know your post was directed to Starznight, but I would like to respond.

MY expectations upon going to a hospital emergency room is to be treated with RESPECT. Thankfully, the few times I have ever needed the use of an emergency room was for an acute incident that required immediate care, not for any "episodes" related to chronic issues.

When I fell and broke 5 ribs, knowing that there is not much anyone can do for that, I initially declined to go to the hospital. After a few hours of very painful breathing, and fear that I may have injured some other internal organs, I did go to the emergency room. NO, I did not expect them to "fix" me or make me better. I knew that only time would heal my broken ribs. What I needed was to be sure that no "other" damaged had been done, AND they did give me a prescription for the pain to get me through the night and the next few days.

They x-rayed my ribs, informed me that 5 were broken, and handed me a prescription for pain meds. I handed the prescription back to the physician and told him that pain meds made me much too sick and I did not need nor want to be throwing up with 5 broken ribs. Unless he gave me something to prevent the nausea that the pain meds would cause, I did not want the prescription. He then gave me TWO prescriptions, one for nausea and the other for pain.

At least I was not treated in the same manner as Starznight. I was treated with respect and was definitely NOT treated like a drug seeker.

Without realizing it at the time, I guess you might say that I actually DID go to the ER "seeking" drugs. I really had not thought about that until they were offered. My primary reason was to be sure I was not injured further than what I knew. Having broken many bones in my life, I KNEW before having x-rays that I had broken some ribs. I just did not know it was FIVE of them.

My point is, no matter WHAT expectations Starznight may have had, she should have been treated with respect.

Dear Hopeless,

Since you were kind enough to respond directly to me...

Respect. It is a word that requires a certain amount of perception and sometimes in retrospect, perceived slights can over time be understood as emotions gone extreme.

The ER doctors and staff do not necessarily know a patient well enough to prescribe medication like Oxycodone and could be sanctioned for not taking the appropriate steps to ensure the patient actually warrants a heavy narcotic.

And often, Meds like Oxycodone and Ambien are on a watch list flagged if a doctor or patient abuse. If I am not mistaken, addicts often go to a variety of pharmacies to avoid detection.

Expecting respect. It just seems a foggy perception rather than anything I can look at concretely. And from the amount of pain in Starz post, there seemed like a thin line between receiving good medical care and not being understood.

For example: when the doctor grabbed Starz and yelled, perhaps she had become unresponsive and the doctor was trying to pull her from lapsing into an unconscious state.

The ER was packed. People are not seen in order of when they come in but rather in the order of greatest need.

I was only hoping to help in cases of her expectations not being met and attempting to help people be their own best advocate.

Dear Aarcyn,

I have copied a few excerpts from Starznight's first post on the thread and have colored in RED, the parts that were most offensive to me and what I regard as total disrespect and totally uncalled for and most unprofessional.

Let's pretend for just a moment that the patient was someone other than Starznight and really was a "drug seeker". A true professional should not speak to the patient nor the parents of the patient in the manner in which this physician spoke. There are different ways of handling drug seeking patients and I doubt that this physician's technique would be advantageous to anyone.

This is about the same as walking into a room and assuming that the teenager that resides in the household broke the vase laying in pieces on the floor. The parent punishes the kid for the incident, and then goes on to lecture on the need to be more careful and demands the kid get an after school job to earn the money to pay for the broken vase. The sad part of this story is the kid did NOT break the vase. The cat jumped up and knocked the vase off the table.

This doctor was just WRONG in the way they treated Starznight. I was NOT referring to the exam, the grabbing of the arm, or the triage method utilized by this facility. I was referring to the assumption that the patient was an addict and the verbalizations made by the physician.

There is such a thing as "The Patient's Bill of Rights", and I believe it was clearly violated by this physician. One of the FIRST items mentioned in this bill of rights is the patient's right to be treated respectfully.

I agree that doctors are put in a precarious position since there ARE people that are seeking drugs and that physicians are at risk of losing their license to practice if they do not pay attention to this fact. But, for me, I can find NO excuse for the behavior exhibited by this physician.

I do not know if it is nationwide, but in MY locale, one must present proper identification at a pharmacy before obtaining drugs in certain classes. And going from pharmacy to pharmacy is of NO aid to the drug seeker as there is a database connecting ALL pharmacies with each other to halt that particular abuse.

I agree that "expectations" are different from person to person and may not be met while the facility or medical professional did everything properly and within guidelines. I just don't see that to be the case here. I do not find any excuse for the physician to have spoken to Starznight or her parents in the manner in which he/she did.

I agree that one must learn to advocate for themselves whenever they can and have someone act as their advocate if necessary. While Starznight was having difficulty being her own advocate due to her condition at the time, she did have family members trying to advocate for her to no avail. The physician was just NOT listening.

I am just very glad that this particular physician is not representative of most. Many doctors still know how to listen and to treat patients with respect.

This quote from your post. I must agree that the word "respect" has different connotations and can be vague at times, but I think it is a generally understood term as used in the patients bill of rights. I do NOT think Starznight was treated with respect when the physician stated as a fact, something only assumed and not known to be true.

*administrative edit"

Since you mentioned that your brother is a neuro, maybe you are sensitive to any challenges made toward a physician. This was NOT a doctor bashing post. Starznight spoke highly of another doctor encounter at the same facility. It was just this ONE particular doctor that was in my opinion worth being reported for his demeanor.

I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood your post. I may have mistaken your questions as an attempt to put all responsibility onto the patient, not the facility providing the care. I am not sure that patients have control to see the neuro on call when in an ER. That is usually determined by the ER staff physicians, at least in my area. It is against hospital policy to allow patients to eat or drink anything that was not provided to them by the hospital (especially in the ER) so having someone go to a vending machine would NOT be allowed in my hospital.

Thank you Hopeless, sorry it has taken me a bit to get back into this discussion. One thing that I didn't make very clear in my rant, is the second Doctor I saw was actually the admitting Doctor. She was not technically the ER doctor, I was admitted to the hospital already, but say it was my ER experience because I never left the ER bay. I spent 2 days there, well almost 3 days.

I don't know why the neuro wasn't involved, my mom did ask if the admitting (druggie accusing) Doctor had even consulted him. And the doctors answer was when I left there I was welcome to walk across the street and see him.

To acyryn, I do know the insanity of ERs, my mom was a long time EMT, my grandmother a nurse, along with 2 aunts and an uncle. My expectations for medical care in the ER is basically stabilize to send home or stabilize to admit. I don't run to the ER for a bandaid and then cry because it took them four hours to give me one. If I'm going to the ER it is because there is a very real probability that there is some illness or injury which requires IMMEDIATE MEDICAL ATTENTION. I am in very real distress, my care can not wait till next Friday when my pcp has an appt available, or until morning when walk-in care is open on the chance it appears to be anything walk-in care can treat for.

What I expected as a human being regardless of being in an ER or my local grocers, is to be treated with at least half as much respect as a house hold pet.

Assume for just a moment, you brought your pet, dog/cat/bird... To an emergency vet service, the poor thing just wouldn't stop crying, you couldn't get it to move properly. But you bring it to the closest place you can find that's open, rather than risking a further trip or waiting till morning to bring them to your vet. Now you're back there with you beloved baby who is so clearly in pain. But the vet takes one look at you... You're in your pjs, unkept, a bit blurry eyed... Your dog gives a whimper in pain and the vet snatches them by the scruff and gives them a shake telling them to quit play acting. What a terrible parent you have, typical drug seeking behavior... Get the dog to play poor poochie so the owner can take their meds... Well no meds for you, you get an aspirin and that's it....

How many pet owners would let that fly?! How many associations? ASPCA?? The Humane Society? The Veterinarian Licensings Boards? How many people would be up in arms ready to riot over the vet. And yet because I'm human I don't deserve the same amount of respect I would most certainly expect for my pets from their veterinarians.

So yeah... Kind of what I expect. I'm not going for an omni omni poof! You are better. I'm going to the ER with pretty fair expectations on being admitted to the hospital for something, and upon admitting, especially during the week, I expect the doctor who takes over my care, has contacted my doctors already... Hopefully before torturing me and calling me a druggie.

And yes my husband was told by the nurse that under no circumstances could he go and get me food, my mother was told the same thing. Nothing to eat or drink that isn't given by hospital staff from the time you check-in

I can understand the no "other" food rule if there is a reason you shouldn't be eating, or only eating a special diet..

But if they messed up the meal, or wrong time for the cafeteria, or didn't get it into the room, I'd have someone go get me something even if they have to sneak it in to me.
What would they do anyway, take the food away , kick family out??:rolleyes:

Funny you should ask about that... Not too long ago it was being put out on the news about a patient being kicked out of the hospital for ordering food from the outside. In all fairness it was a patient who was hospitalized awaiting gastric bypass, only they had to wait for him to loose so much weight before he could have the surgery, and he did order himself a large pizza. So the hospital kicked him out, offended tons of folks.

But the hospital justified their decision based on their no outside food/drinks policies for their patients. And if you think about it.. If they're treating me thinking it's just a uti shouldnt restrict my diet right?... Except salt content... Moisture content... Sugar content.... What if it's really a sudden wheat sensitivity, or some other allergy. Remove the control on what the patient eats and drinks and they could be setting themselves up for various malpractice suits.

But at the same time, the nurses stations always used to have at least saltine crackers for nauseous patients, why couldn't she grab me a pack??? It doesn't need to be a lot of food with the pills, just something to keep the acids from demolishing the pills on contact and to slow up the ingesting process a bit.

Closing this thread for a while.

[Forums Mission Statement -
The purpose of our Community is simple -- it's devoted to support for health, neurological, mental health and related issues. In that vein, you should be civil and treat others as you expect to be treated here. ]

*Thread closure is not related to Starznight's recent post.*
We were typing at the same time most likely.

Hi
I have re-opened this thread for continued discussion.

We needed some edits and deletes. Please remember that we have guidelines on how members should respond to one another, and "calling out" etc in a negative way is a form of flaming. Members can disagree, but please do so agreeably.
Here are the guidelines: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293

Most hospitals have a rule about any food or drink being provided to a patient without the consent of the medical staff for a very good reason.

Some may be as follows:

Possible testing that requires fasting.
The need to monitor intake and output of fluid levels.
Possibly special diet restrictions not already in place.

The list could go on and on. In order to properly treat a patient in the hospital, the medical staff needs to be fully aware of everything that is going into a patient's system, be that food, drink, or medications. Many things could be contrary to the care of the patient.

In some cases, things of which the hospital is unaware, could pose potential danger to the patient. The policies of the hospital are not usually arbitrary, while some may seem to be so.

When one of my family members were hospitalized, I asked if it would be OK if I brought coffee from home for the patient. ONLY, after I had "permission" did I bring the coffee.

Just my take on the food topic.

Starznight,

Sorry you had to go through all of that and hope you are starting to feel better. One thing I would for sure do when you feel up to it, is explore the possibility of filing a complaint with the state's medical licensing board. The hospital has very little incentive to take any feedback you give and do anything constructive with it. They will respond to things that will cost them money...like lawsuits. If you aren't filing a lawsuit, they will say and do as little as possible to the doctor, because anything they do now could be future fodder for somebody else's lawsuit.

The state medical board on the other hand has the ability to directly sanction the doctor for the behavior, and the doctor can't avoid it simply by changing jobs. I think the distinction between drug seeking behavior, and neurologic pain not caused by a visible injury is one that is very difficult for doctors to diagnose. However, their inability to distinguish between the two doesn't give them the right to abandon the concept of respect for the patient or their family. That lack of respect is something the state board should know about, especially if it was accompanied by physical contact that left bruises. If the bruises are still there, get them documented by somebody with pictures very soon.

Well I am feeling a good bit better. I've been downing copious amounts of cranberry juice since my release. And I have contacted the hospital concerning my stay with them. I was given the most heartfelt apologies for my treatment, was told, at least, that my complaint did raise a lot of concerns for the hospital and the way the staff treats patients. And of course I didn't forget to rave about the first doctor who oversaw my care nor the many wonderful nurses who also cared for me during my stay.

How much of what the hospital said was lip service and how much was true concern for what happened.... Who can ever really say. And I'm unlikely to know for sure as I will only be going to the hospital that is part of my health group from now on, even though the nearest one is a non-admitting ER which means picking up an extra tab for ambulance transport to the main hospital if I should need to be admitted in the future and am incapacitated enough to not be able to ride the extra 20-30 mins in the car down there in the first place.

But hey, I survived and will survive to see another day and I'm improving health wise so while the doctor may not have been my cup of tea, to put it mildly, at least the physical medicine she did have down and placed me on an appropriate antibiotic to speed along my recovery. And the Tordol that I sort of begged for, are now a bit excessive as I haven't had to take any beyond my first day and half- two days home. And that was after falling backwards on my porch Sunday and whacking my back against a 2 x 4, oh the nice bruise from the blood thinners and a heavy hit, just above my oh so tender infected kidney's nice one on my part.

But it's a bruise, made worse by the blood thinners, but just a bruise all the same. I'll be fine and probably end up with the bruise out living the infections. Even a master faller like me will have the occasional 'slip-up' :D Pun intended :rolleyes:

But in any event, it did feel nice to have the hospital apologize, and they sent me through to like 4 different department heads to receive apologies too. There was the head of nursing, the head of the ER, the head of Admitting and then the head of administration, and I think I also got sent through to the cafeteria over the 3 hour late breakfast, which I had to tell them, no no... wasn't your fault, you had the food there, you guys were good and the food is excellent, don't change cheeseburgers oh so good, and the fresh fruit cups were delicious, as is the broccoli.

Thanks, TXBatman,

You stated this soooooooo much better than I did. Glad to have you express what I was trying to convey but had done such a poor job of getting into words.

Dear Starznight,

I am so glad to hear that you are on the mend. (Other than your additional at home injury.)

I am also glad to hear that you at least got "lip service" apologies. Better than nothing and at least the powers that be have been notified. It is now in their ballpark to act upon it or not, but, if no one ever speaks up, we can't expect anything to change nor can we hold the administration responsible for allowing such behavior if they are unaware of it.

I truly believe that this behavior was so egregious that it really necessitated being reported. There are a lot of things that do not reach a level of complaint, even though not proper, but this was far beyond just improper.

I wonder how many other people with "invisible" disabilities, suffering from chronic pain, on prescription pain relief, are treated in a similar fashion. Once again, I sure hope this is not a trend of what is to be the future in medical care for people with chronic issues.

Wishing you a VERY speedy recovery from the acute issues for which you needed medical care. Thanks again for sharing your experience with us. It is something we all need to think about when we seek medical assistance.

Starz, please don't ask me what sites they are, but there are many sites in the internet to rate different providers. Use those sites!!!!! You and the rest of the world need to see how you were treated.

When I was a nurse, I know at the nurses station only we used to verbally judge those who we knew and i'm sure sometimes who we thought were drug seekers. But it was in our cancer care training that they stressed so much. Drug users also have real pain and need medicine. They also need compassion. And no, I am not saying you are a drug user, I am saying the exact opposite. But what I am saying is that as nurses we were taught to treat those who are drug users with respect.

Please, use every measure you can find to let people know how you were treated. Good luck in your recovery. And next time you feel like this, immediately check to see if you have a UTI. Let your neuro or PCP know so they can do this for you.

i don't know if this is passee but....i thought that the measure of pain was called the 5th vital sign. the medical profession is morally & ethically obligated to treat pain. that's why they came up with the 1 to 10 pain scale.

flipping off someone else's pain just isn't right, it's also bad medicine, IMHO.

I think this is an excellent point. Being pampered as mentioned multiple times in the OP isn't something that ED staff have the luxury to provide so if there were some compassionate nurses going above and beyond I'd also remember that when the entire experience is considered.

OPs symptoms certainly sound worthy of a trip to the ED although do keep in mind there are car accidents, critically sick babies, strokes, heart attacks and drug overdoses that all take precedence over pain complaints in the ED. Not ideal for the person in severe pain but just the way it has to go to triage and save the lives of those who are in immediate danger of dying. :(

Totally different understanding
 

I took the original poster to relay the events as they happened but did not see anything in the post relating to triage. I also did not think the poster was looking for pampering, but was "offered" a small amount by some caring staff. I see no harm in medical personnel showing compassion. Personally, I don't consider compassion a luxury, but I do agree that there is not always time for it in a crisis situation.

I have tried to see why some posters seem to feel that the original poster had unrealistic expectations. I just don't see it. Maybe it is a matter of personal perceptions. Having worked in a hospital, including ICU and CCU, I have seen unrealistic expectations but I just do not see it in the post here. Just my perception and opinion. I have NOT worked in an ER so maybe that is why I see things differently.

One thing that may not have been clear, at least not to me until further explained, but it is my understanding now that this was not just an ER visit, but was extended into an admission to the hospital, but no beds available on the floor, so the patient remained in the emergency department.

My "take" on the original post was the objectionable manner in which the physician spoke to the patient and family. I took that as the MAIN point of the entire post, well at least to me. That the physician made an immediate jump, unsubstantiated, to the idea that the patient was using "drugs" in an unwarranted manner. Even after being told by family members to the contrary, the physician's snide remark of "to your knowledge" was totally uncalled for and very unprofessional in my opinion. To think it is one thing as a physician, but to utter it to the family is another. That is so disrespectful of the patient and the family. The physician was calling the patient a liar.

Expectations ??? I surely do NOT expect a physician to call me a liar when they do not know me nor have any evidence to make that assumption.

I have a friend with very untypical migraines that absolutely hates going to the ER because she knows how she will be perceived and treated.

My husband has been to the ER 4 times in our married life. He was treated immediately in 3 situations. First time was a concussion from a real bad fall, second and third was heart attack and last one was TIA type symptoms, very minimal that had occurred an hour before. It was the last one that we waited and waited. Now the way to get through triage and into a room and treated is for possible heart attack. My, my, you don't even have a chance to catch your breath. But I am grateful. Oh, the time with the TIA symptoms....turned out to be meningitis and he was in for 2 weeks and rehab 2 weeks.

Yeah, again I wasn't going to the ER with the expectation of being pampered and coddled and given a cookie. I was however in a massive amount of pain that was starting to cause symptoms of shock, I was severly dehydrated, and my kidneys were starting to shut down, so it's not exactly like I went there with a paper cut and I'm upset that they called me a druggy.

I went to the ER with a very real medical emergency, one that ended with my being admitted to the hospital, as they tried to rehydrate me and pump me full of antibiotics to kill the infection that was rather rapidly becoming life threatening. Especially while I continued to be in massive amounts of pain as they really couldn't pump fluids into me fast enough against the cold sweat causing me to lose them immediately. This compounded the kidney failure and hindered the antibiotic from working.

That really is even more so why I was upset with the admitting doctor for calling me a liar and saying there was nothing wrong with me, when let me tell you, when your internal organs start shutting down, you know there's something seriously wrong.

But yes I liked the nurses going the extra little mile for me once they knew who my admitting doctor was. I won't lie, it was nice to get a little bit of spoiling after probably my most horrible experience in life. That they joked around with me, checked on me frequently, and were constantly bringing me lots of juice to drink even running to the cafeteria for me when they didn't have the juice on hand up front by the nurses station... it was apprieciated greatly. Though most of their pampering was in the form of simply joking around with me and making sure that my tordol didn't wear off. And of course telling the doctor what for when it was time for me to go home and she wasn't going to give me a script for tordol despite my still being in a lot of pain.

But I didn't ask the nurses to do all that for me, I just was lucky they were willing to and had the time to do so.

But again, my only expectation with an ER is that they provide basic medical care, determine with some knowledge as to whether I need to be admitted to the hospital or if I can be released, and treat me with a reasonable amount of respect. I don't expect them to hand everything to me on a silver platter, or to kick someone dying of a heart attack out of their bed so I can get called back 5 minutes after I arrive. I really don't mind waiting (I hate it as much as anyone else when I'm in pain or sick as a dog, but then so does everyone else) but once I'm called back, and once the doctor is able to spare the time to see me, I expect basic care to be delivered.

And if the ER doctor so deems it necessary for me to be admitted to the hospital, I don't expect the admitting doctor to call me a liar flat out. To treat me like some kind of criminal, and pretty much go out of her way to humiliate and torture me, especially in front of my family members, and to beat me on top of all of that, only to come to the realization that I wasn't a druggy, but did in fact have a serious medical condition going on. That is really the only thing that had me angry over the whole trip to the ER. Was the admitting doctor and the way she treated me. That's all.

Ah, the wonderful nurse.