Hi. How long after a hard concussion can i activate and train my brain? Or is rest..
 

Hi. How long after a hard concussion can i activate and train my brain? Or is rest the best medicine for a while if symptoms/dizziness still are felt?

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Hi. I skateboarded 3-4 weeks ago, and went up like a big wall in a pool, but made a big fall backwards, and hit the back of my head hard! (Aouch!) I was unconscious for 3-5 min i think.. Was not many people there at that time, late. Nobody saw my fall, etc. Bad luck. (But i got some info after, and guessing 3-5 min unconscious.)

I still have a headache now 3-4 weeks later on, and my balance is a bit slow, and my thinking/memory/concentration also. But i mostly feel lightheaded and dizzy when i am out just walking. And i have of course never experienced that before the fall. That is what i feel is the most uncomfortable, and the headaches. And yes, it was very stupid to not wear a helmet that time. Was very close. Bad accident, bad luck. I have bought an helmet for next year, if i feel better then. ;) I must, i really hope so!

I hope i will be good as new this Christmas.. Then it has gone some time. I found this link:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome

Anyways. I try and sleep good and eat good.. What are the best ways for me to become fully healed in the next couple of weeks/months? Should i just take it easy and listen to like sound books, or watching movies? Should i sleep much/more?
If anyone has the knowledge of how to recover after a concussion, i would really appreciate the help. My dizziness and slow pace when walking, i hope and think it will go away eventually. But, i actually did *not throw up* after, and that's good. (But i was feeling sick to my stomach days after, but did not throw up.)
I just felt asleep for a while after. And the first week was really slow. I'm better now, but i'm not fully recovered... I'm at 80-(90)% maybe. I do not want to feel dizzy and lightheaded outside, and stuff. Walking slow and a bit "shaky". Also, i have headache in the back of my head right now a bit.. (But mostly just have a headache, which i rarely have otherwise.) Need to take an aspirin. But i would very much appreciate advice on a full recovery of my brain. ;) Meditation? Rest?

I have been in front of my computer the last weeks, and have played some games. But, i do not know if it's healthy for me..

That's mostly what i want to know. If i should rest/meditate.. Take it very slow. OR if i can read books and activate my brain more? Can i play myst like games, etc? The witness games, puzzles and train my brain, or should i cut down on it? Might be good to activate the brain as much as possible, or not, and listen to sound books and stay away from flashing games, etc. I do not know. Might just be the first days or weeks they recommend that for people perhaps? Might be cool now to put "pressure" on it/challenge it, i do not know.

What is the best for recovery?

(Also.. If i get back to myself and feel fully recovered later on.. Will i have lost a big part of brain cells, or intelligence, or does that come back normally in time?)

Thanks allot! Please answer if you have knowledge on this topic with concussions, and recovery, or in general. ;) Peace out

Hey dude, welcome!

I think almost everyone here has been through the symptoms you're describing with dizzyness and lightheadedness. If I would sum up what has worked for me, getting better after almost 5 months of PCS it would be active rest. If something makes you dizzy, stay away from it. If it doesn't make you dizzy, you can keep doing it (until you feel symptoms returning, then stop). One could say that you experience symptoms when your brain is trying to tell you to stop doing what you're doing because it doesn't have the resources to process that task.

Computer games really messed me up when I tried playing some League of Legends after a long day, just a month after I hit my head. I experienced a really significant setback from doing so. You don't need to activate your brain in order to get it healing, you just need to rest. You won't lose processing power from taking it easy for a while, and your brain really needs it. If you want to do anything - that is, if you're feeling energized and it doesn't induce symptoms - you can try exercising. And when I say exercising I don't mean going for a run or going to lift weights (or god forbid, skating again, look up second impact syndrome, don't die on us), I mean taking a walk until you start feeling tired/dizzy. Remember how long it took you to get symptoms and stay below that threshold next time you take a walk. When you've been taking walks and going about your days without symptoms for some time (general consensus seems to be two weeks), you can ramp up your intensity slightly.

Take your brain injury seriously. I don't know if I could have shortened my period of illness by much, but if I could, it would have been by taking the injury more seriously. I went on to complete a university course with client interactions even though I had pretty severe symptoms and now I've been unable to function at more than 50-60% of my healthy capacity for almost 5 months. You can shorten your stay in bed if you take it seriously.


Things I believe have helped me recover, apart from resting:
- Vitamin regimen. You can find it linked in the forum head. Don't skip curcumin! Studies have shown that mice improve greatly from traumatic brain injury if they are supplementing curcumin. Buy a curcumin pill that has piperine included, without it the curcumin has poor bioavaliability.

- Meditating consistently. Studies have connected increased density in white matter in the brain to meditation, and PCS is believed to be caused to a large extent by disruptions in axons in white matter.

- Doing as much exercise as I can do without inducing symptoms. For me this has been walks and recently running for short sessions of 6-7 minutes on a cross trainer. Physical exercise is much, much more efficent than cognitive exercise when it comes to improving cognitive functioning and secretion of sweet, sexy proteins that our brain uses to rewire itself. If you want to you can look up BDNF (Brain Derived Neurotropic Factor), but if not, take my word for it. Exercise and specifically cardio is the bomb when it comes to brain function.

- Getting good quality sleep. Turn down the lights an hour before you go to bed and try to chill out, listen to/read some fiction to get your mind focused on something that you can't really stress out about. Get your room pitch black or buy yourself a sleeping mask. Earplugs help me too.


Things that are fun that I've been doing to not want to jump off a cliff when resting:
- Audio books. Man, I've gone through a few. Goodreads is great to get some recommendations if you haven't read a whole lot (I hadn't). Podcasts get stale after a while because they are designed to keep you occupied for an hour at a time. And with PCS, you need to kill a lot more than an hour. I see audio books as a way for me to do something constructive while I'm impaired due to my PCS and I've read and learned a lot during these months.

- Podcasts. If you have a particular favourite that is just a couple of people hanging out and talking, this can provide you with a great comfort-entertainment when you're in a slump and experiencing symptoms. Whenever I feel like crap with symptoms I come back to a particular podcast that makes me feel better. Makes the anxiety go away.

- Youtube videos of relaxed things. If you're well enough to look at screens (took me about two months before I could), you can start looking at calm things that are just engaging enough to not make you want to turn it off. If you can find some channels that feature some interest that you can watch for longer periods of time, these are a great way to kill off some time. For some reason I come back to car- and cooking shows. I don't even have a drivers licence.
Watching movies and series often seems to be a bit much for me, in comparison to youtube stuff. The question of following a narrative set by someone, I find myself reviewing aspects of the movie/show from the perspective of what the director wanted to achieve, different symbolic interpretations of the story and so on. Watching someone chop an onion or installing a turbo unit on an old piece of junk seems to be working better for me - look up Roadkill if you're into cars and Brother Green Eats if you're into food!


There's a bunch of knowledgeable people on here, so don't be afraid to ask for help. Mark in Idaho has a lot of info and always wants to help out, a real stand up guy.

Thanks allot dude. I really appreciate the answer!
I will listen to sound books more and try and limit the screen.. I have an headache most of the time now..
But when i am out and trying to take a walk, i get dizzy right away. And i need to stop walking for a bit, and just look around.. (Feeling Lightheaded.) Then continue walking.
The first week i was out and doing stuff, but i needed to sit down between walks. (And one time i just fell on my *** like a baby, the first week and that was not good.)
I just sat on the ground or on the grass when i was walking. Then walked more.. But slow. Now i don't really need to sit down, but i'm still dizzy, and feel like wanting to sit down. But i will try active rest then. ;)
...
And if i knew this before, i probably would not have walked much or used the computer or phone as much. Been so active..
But i will rest for some time, and i hope the dizziness walking will go away. Because i feel dizzy when i get outside. But i walk anyways, in a slow pace... Lightheaded.
And i was worried that it was going to be permanent, but i think and hope it will go away eventually.
But alright. I will try and take it easy. And i will listen to your advice on what you wrote, and vitamins also. Learn to meditate also, and take it easy.

Thanks allot! Keep it up. Hope you feel better. Now i need to rest, and sleep soon.
Peace out

smutsik,

You are on your own. You appear to have all the answers. You must be fully recovered.

Mark,

I'm sorry, I'm not quite following you. I'm not yet fully recovered. Are saying something that I'm not getting?

Btw, english is not my native language.. When you wrote active rest, i thought you meant rest.. As much as possible. ;) But i googled and got this:
**
...

But i will try and rest normally much also. ;) And try and sleep much. Sleep must be the best. Just taking it easy... Normal rest.
And later on when i feel better, active rest. And exercise later on. ;)
Listening to a nice soundbook on mindfulness right now, and that's nice.

Will try and stay away from the computer. As a "computer junkie". hehe. I like technology too much. But soundbooks are awesome. Learning and just sounds. And resting.. Sometimes a movie. Sometimes walks, etc.
But rest and sleep must be the best for healing, probably. And some light exercise later on, or walks. Or sitting in nature. Thanks.

Cool! Keep it up and I'm sure you'll feel better soon. Take care!

Thanks dude. They removed my link. But active rest... I googled it and it was like "workout rest"..
But maybe you meant more normal rest... ? ;)

Like rest as much as possible, etc..
And yes, i hope so. Today i cleaned the apartment and threw out some old garbage. But i felt dizzy (almost drunk dizzy feeling as usual and hope it will be gone later on in a few weeks or months) when i walked to the container and threw the heavy bags in it...
I will just try chill at home most of the time. But i also need to walk some, etc..

Anyways. yeah. I will try and take it easy. Hope you also will be fully healed later on. Take care you also. ;)

temporary,

You should not be sleeping other than your normal night time sleep period. Daytime sleep, except for the occasional short nap, disrupts proper night sleep. Proper night sleep with all of the different stages of sleep is the most important. Neurons heal during the REM sleep stage. Toxins get flushed from the brain during the slow wave sleep stage.

Low stress brain stimulation is best. Nothing that causes excitement or adrenaline. Action video games, no. Working on puzzles online or doing games like Minesweeper, Free Cell, Solitaire, Spider, are fine unless your eyes start to fatigue. If you need to put in extra effort to focus and understand, take a break. Minecraft might be OK if it does not over-stimulate you.

Any time you feel a bit of fatigue or a need to focus harder, take a break. Maybe move to a different activity or take a short walk.

Thanks.
Well, i rest sometimes during the day, but i sleep good at night also. And i agree that sleep is the most important for healing of neurons, etc. ;) (And just resting sometimes during the day, taking it easy.)
Might just take a while until fully recovered.

And yeah, i agree that low stress brain stimulation might be the best. That's why i'm learning to meditate also. ;) It might be fine to do puzzle games.. I'm not fully sure.. I have put that on hold for some reason, until i'm not feeling dizzy when walking outside. (I might heal faster with sound books, chill movies, etc.)
I will try and learn stuff with sound books instead for a while. That's fine with me.
Anyways. Thanks for the answer. It's late here and i need to sleep now. Take care. Peace out

Hey all, and Temporary

My recommendation to all concussion sufferers:

Meditation, if you never have, find a group, or an audiobook to teach you, practice Meditation every day. Start small, then go for longer periods of time.

Go in for a Vestibular Therapy right away after a concussion for an assessment, and then you would be given recommendations and possibly you will be given exercises. Some exercises might seem silly, but do them as prescribed, these exercises are REALLY important.

My Sports Medicine physician managing my concussion recently went to a conference in Boston in May 2017, on recent advancements and discoveries in concussion management.

At the Boston conference, my doctor told me two NFL team doctors spoke at this conference about how they have discovered that when their athletes with concussions go in for Vestibular Assessment and Therapy early on, meaning shortly after the concussion, even when the Vestibular Therapy made them feel really terri ble and some felt nauseous with a lot of symptoms triggered, the athletes recovered much faster.

My Sports Medicine doctor realized at that conference that he was perhaps managing my concussion too conservatively.

The recommendations my Sports Medicine doctor made after attending that conference, is for me to get more active, and get into Vestibular Therapy and don't stop if it makes me feel terrible. If I felt terrible, track for how long the symptoms stayed with me, and let the Vestibular Therapist know.

Vestibular assessment and Therapy is VERY important right away for faster concussion recovery.

I had to edit the following and delete links because I'm not yet allowed to post links because I just joined this forum. (silly rule, I think)

GOOGLE

Parachute Canada, look at the concussion management informtaion.

GOOGLE

Concensus Statement on Concussion Management in Sport


VESTIBULAR THERAPY:

For me, Vestibular therapy at first was mostly upper Cervical spine physical therapy and range of motion manipulatiin by a physiotherapist trained in Concussion management. The ligaments up in the Upper spine where the spine connects to the base of the skull, if those ligaments are injured, they can trigger symptoms of headache and other symptoms that seem like brain injury and concussion symptoms but are actually neck injury symptoms.

This physiotherapist also gave me a lot of take home daily eye and Vestibular and balance exercises.

Eye exercises included early on:

Pencil push ups (convergence work)

Hold a pencil vertically, straight ahead of your nose, focus your eyes on the pencil as you slowly move the pencil toward your nose. When you can't focus on the pencil and it becomes blurry/two pencils, stop, move the pencil slowly away until you can focus on it again, and hold for 3 to 5 seconds.

Simple eye muscle exercises from left to right, up and down, and diagonally both directions

The simple eye exercises all were really tiring at first for me because I had spent 3 months of quiet rest in a quiet dark room with no screen time (no TV, computer, phone) and I rarely left the house, because I felt so terrible with symptoms.

Eye focusing exercises such as near and far

I did this sitting outside on my deck, looking at a tree and then a house, pick something near and far, and repeat it.

Eye exercises progressed to turning my head while looking at the last line I could read on an eye chart and reading that line of letters forward and backward while turning my head.

Hold my arms straight out in front of me, clasping my hands. Look at my clasped hands, then rotate my torso from left to right, all the while I am looking at my clasped hands held straight out front. I started that exercise sitting down because I was so dizzy.

Look at an object straight ahead, focus on that object (like a picture on a wall) and then turn my head side to side while focusing my eyes on the object on the wall. I had to staer that one sitting down because it made me so dizzy.

BALANCE EXERCISES

For me, that meant standing in a corner with my hands holding the wall for balance, trying to stand without needing to touch the wall. I gradually could make it more challenging by standing on one leg, then with two feet on the ground but eyes closed, then graduate to a wobble board or just standing on a couch cushion on the floor on two feet then one foot, first eyes open, then eyes closed when safe to do so and I was confident I would not fall down.

PACING POINTS

There is a points system designed to measure activities so it is easier to determine how much activity is too much for an injured brain.

For example, a person, depending on where they were in their concussion recovery, could have a maximum of 15 points for the day if they are really having problems with their symptoms being triggered.

Watching TV would be 2 points per hour, going out to a restaurant with one person would be 5 points. Attending an appointment would be 3 - 5 points. Meal preparation would be 3 - 5 points, grocery shopping 5 points, talking on the phone 2 points per fifteen minutes.

I still find in person conversations draining and difficult because I struggle withprocessing the conversation cognitively as well as I sometimes struggle with word finding. The best way for me to communicate right now is by text, so I can think out a measured response.

For information on Pacing and the Pacing Points, google pacing points and click on the PDF that is titled:

GOOGLE

Pacing and Planning with Becky Moran

Reading and downloading that PDF I found was very helpful in understanding what is more draining to our concussed brain, and helps with having a tangible way to figure out how much stimulation and activity is too much for me.

JOURNAL

Journal everything you do, for how long, and if you feel okay or not. this is especially important if litigation is involved.

SYMPTOM MANAGEMENT:

PHOTOPHOBIA:

GLACIER RATED SUNGLASSES, HATS:

I bought a pair of Glacier rated sunglasses (let in only I think 5 % of the light) with those side blinders . I wore those sunglasses everywhere at first, when going outside the house, it helped a lot because visual stimulation was overwhelming for me, especially in a place like a grocery store.

I also wear hats all the time to block light indoors like overhead fluorescents, and outdoors like streetlights and the sun. The hat also limits visual stimulation.

PHONOPHOBIA:

HEARING PROTECTION:

At first I used arplugs AND external hearing protection (from a hardware store) in cars,, going out anywherer, really, and also when I walked around my neighbourhood.

Someone mentioned noise cancelling headphones are good for phonophobia.

COGNITIVE OVERSTIMULATION:

GROCERY STORES:

Hat, glacier rated sunglasses with side blinders, double hearing protection at first, and looking down at the floor when walking around. (but I did so safely) I also learned to go 30 minutes before closing when my grocery store was quiet with almost no customers.

CROWDS:

Crowds were very difficult to navigate because it was too much visual and auditory stimulation for me, for example at a street festival. I ended up holding onto the arm of my companion and looked straight down at the ground ahead of me and my companion navigated us through the crowd. I would look up when we were at a booth of interest for example.I also wore a hat, sunglasses, and at first double hearing protection meaning earplugs and external hearing protection.


WALKS

At first, I discovered it was best for me to walk the neighbourhood when it was not busy, and looked down at the sidewalk in front of me to avoid too much visual stimulation. (only do in a safe neighbourhood and it is good to walk with someone, I carried bear spray with me for safety).

PHONE SCREEN DIMMING APP

I use Night Owl, it's awesome for dimming out light that can be harmful and disruptive to sleep patterns.

MEDITATION APPS

There are a lot, I ended up using the fifteen minute meditation in the Deep Relax APP but just try an APP and see if it works for you.

I tried those coping strategies to get to a point where symptoms were not triggered, then gradually increased stimulation when I was feeling well, like purposely not wearing the glacier glasses and trying my regular sunglasses instead, then see if my symptoms were triggered.

Sometimes it takes a day for me to feel crappy after doing too much, for me, anyhow, and then I had no idea why I felt terrible, what I did that was too much.

I think that's it for now.....Good luck with your recovery....

Thanks allot for the help and answer. I also tried Night Owl, it rocks.
But i have read all you wrote. And i will try and just take it easy. I have also read on wikihow.. I might have been to active after the concussion. It's my first one ever..
But also a hard one.
Good to hear how you worked through stuff, and i appreciate all of the advice, etc. ;)
I'm working on mindfulness or meditation also.. It needs work. But i read on wikihow that rest and sleep is very good/important also, which i also believe it is. But also doing stuff gradually as you wrote, and not doing to much, and get headaches, etc.
I hope you feel better also. Best of luck. Take care! Peace out

Canada,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

Glad to hear you are seeing improvement. Wow, Your regimen is far too aggressive for many with concussions and PCS.

The NFL doctors like those at the Boston conference, are usually focused on return to play, not return to the kind of daily activities most with PCS deal with. Players are driven to get back on the field at the earliest opportunity.

"The simple eye exercises all were really tiring at first for me because I had spent 3 months of quiet rest in a quiet dark room with no screen time (no TV, computer, phone) and I rarely left the house, because I felt so terrible with symptoms."

Your recovery was not only delayed but maybe even extended by the 3 months of rest. As the consensus statement acknowledged, non-activity rest should not extend beyond 48 hours. To take it a step further, bed rest is not recommended outside of normal sleep periods. Then, return to activity as symptoms allow. The goal is low stress activity that keeps good blood flow to the brain. Excessive and improper rest lend to toxins collecting in the brain causing further levels of symptoms and delays.

Not everybody has vision and/or vestibular issues. Getting assessed is worthwhile but some vestibular therapists see the patient as a source of billings and may push therapy that is more than is needed thus adding stress to the patient's day.

It is helpful to remember that in the past 10 years, especially since computerized neurocognitive testing has become widely promoted, concussion management has become an 'industry.' Doctors attend weekend conferences and learn how to increase billings as they hang out a sign saying concussion specialist.

The Berlin Consensus, though improved over the prior Zurich Consensus, still acknowledges there are many questions to be answered, especially regarding concussion symptoms that last beyond 2 weeks or so. 85% recover during the first 6 weeks, most within 2 weeks. Notice the statement recover from a clinical perspective. This is important because return to play is determined from a clinical perspective. Recovering to return to work or intense classroom studies is a different issue.

Berlin did make a strong statement about the part upper cervical injuries play. It would be great if those who do not have access to a sports trainer or even team doctor had access to the cervical assessments that athletes have. Medicine outside of sports has not adopted the cervical injury concept since those injuries are often very subtle in the mind of the doctor.

Neck strengthening has been a consideration for those at risk of concussion in sports so neck rehabilitation is likely different for such athletes than for those who do not have pre-morbid strong necks.

It takes about 6 weeks or longer for ligaments to heal. Therapy without postural discipline during sleep and rest is usually inadequate.

Other than the 'push vestibular therapy even if it causes symptoms' concept, we have discussed all of the issues you mentioned. Pushing through symptoms is controversial and not broadly supported.

The points system you mention is highly subjective to the individual and environment. I don't see how it can be broadly applied. The attempt to make everything into a statistical number is impossible. It there is one thing we know for sure, it is this. Every concussion is different. The matrix of symptoms varies from one person to the next. The matrix of recovery from those symptoms is just as different.

Excessive journaling can be problematic. Too much focus on symptoms can increase anxiety levels. Litigation is known to increase symptom levels, especially if journaling is done. A less intense tracking of symptoms is good.

I see you are still struggling with visual and auditory stimulation. This suggest you are still early in your recovery and understanding. The points system may be misleading you in your understanding.

Hopefully, there is a lot we can help you with.

Has anybody mentioned nutritional issues like brain health supplements ?

Please feel free to start your own thread using the New Thread link at the upper left of the index page.

My best to you.

Maybe a "stupid question".. But. I sleep kinda good. Like 8-9 hours a night.. That's enough.
But my day and night are messed up right now..
I'm not fully healed, but it's getting better. Mostly headaches.. And what i wrote before.

But can i be awake like 24-30 hours and then sleep when night falls, instead of like right now, i sleep during the day.. I'm a night owl/vampire at the moment.

Is it harmful to the brain or neurons/cells, or recovery if i stay awake for that long, etc?
Getting my sleeping routine better then it is right now.
Or perhaps it's mostly the body that is affected i don't know the science behind it and staying awake for that long, i did it sometimes before i had a concussion, because i sometimes have a "wrong"/shifted sleeping pattern. It's both the brain and body that gets affected i guess with staying awake for 24-30h, but not that harmful when not having a concussion, but i don't know how it is when healing after my last blow to the head. It's been over a months now so it might be alright to try it out.

I'm already tired now though.. I feel tired all of the time atm. Don't know if i will change my rhythm today or some other day. But i guess it's no big deal if i stay awake for that long. Might just have a headache, fall asleep at the night, and then be tired the next day, but then sleep during the night instead the days after like i want. ;)

I just want to recover the best. But also sleep during the night and stay awake during the days. ;) I thought i would ask. Maybe some of you know stuff like this, but i'm guessing it might not be a big deal to stay awake if/when i want to get my sleeping pattern more optimal.
Thanks

EDIT:
Found this on google:
h**ps://uhs.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/Head_Injury_Concussion.pdf

(This link rule. I don't like it. Head_Injury_Concussion.pdf , uhs[dot]berkeley[dot]edu)

"Rest your body: Avoid any exertion which increases symptoms. Resume normal activitie gradually, and as tolerated. Avoid pulling “all nighters” as sleep will help recovery. Take naps or rest breaks when you feel tired or fatigued."

Might have been the first 7 days, or longer. But i'm not going to change my rhythm today, to tired. Good to know for some other time. But i understand that rest and sleep is the best, so it's a kinda "stupid" question.
But i'm alright with being a night owl at the moment.

Yes, staying awake for 24 to 30 hours is not good for the brain whether you have had a concussion or not. The mental fatigue can cause a slow deterioration and slow your recovery.

If you are doing odd schedule work that requires working during normal sleep periods, your recovery could be quite long and incomplete. If you are staying awake out of choice, you should stop it. If you stay up playing video games or doing other stimulating activities, you should stop until you are symptom free.

Sleep schedule at night is based on wake-up time in the morning. Getting up the same time each day will help you sleep at regular hours. Over time, maintaining the same sleep schedule should help with your headaches. You should not be sleeping during the day.

The Berkeley web site is not totally accurate based on the latest research. Take a break and have a rest period away from excessive stimulation when you experience fatigue. That just means lower your physical and mental activity level. An occasional 10 or 20 minute nap is OK as long as it does not become a daily habit. Habitually napping will disrupt your night time sleep schedule.

Proper quality night time sleep is important because it is when your brain heals and when it cleans out the toxins. But, you need to sleep through all of the stages, especially REM and slow wave sleep.

Recovery is not a 5 out of 7 days effort. It is a 14 out of 14 days effort. A few bad and undisciplined days can undo weeks of recovery.

I've lived with Post Concussion Syndrome for 52 years and been digging up the research for 20 years. It takes time to sort through all of the incomplete or outdated information. Most doctors have been trained at weekend concussion seminars and have less than a decade of experience with concussed patients. They do not have time to keep up with all of the advances. Take the time to find experienced help.

Alright. Thanks for the answer.

Hey.
I went outside walking late, felt dizzy and got annoyed that i'm still dizzy when walking, but then i went to a pub and took one beer. Tasted good! But i'm taking it easy with alcohol. But i think it was 4 months since i drank alcohol now! 4 months. One beer made me relax a bit, but i went and it closed a while after so i did not drink more then one. 3 would had felt nice, but might have become very dizzy when walking. So one is enough.. Or two.
Anyways. I'm wondering why i have read that people should avoid alcohol after a concussion?
I get that it is not good the first week, or two. But it has been 1,5 months for me now and i want beer.
Is it ok to drink beer? Lets say 5.2% beer, or weaker.. 3,5% beer. Is that ok if one takes it easy and not get drunk, or fall..
I bet they don't recommend it because people can fall. Or if not, why have i read about it?
(Why do they recommend to avoid it right after one. And for me it's been a long time now, but not yet fully recovered. Hmm. I think the answer might be just to avoid more accidents to the head and not that it affects the brain too much negatively in small amounts(?))
It can be good for the nerves sometimes. Small amounts of it. I have never been a big drinker.

Thanks allot neurotalk forum for your knowledge, and help on questions, etc.

Edit: Also, this is starting to annoy me that i still feel dizzy when walking so i might try and go to the gym in a week. What can happen if i work out hard or try and start slow? Is that really negative?... It's not like a blood vessel in the brain will pop i guess..(?)
Better then drinking beer i bet. I feel like punching on a boxing bag. or just try and work out some! The brain should adapt to that! Might even be healthy i don't know. Or if i start walking every day and my brain needs to adapt and not feel dizzy when walking. Rest can't be the best option all of the time. I need to move also and adapt naturally. ;) I need and want to feel better then i'm feeling now. It might work to try and go to the gym and start slow... Might even be good. that or just try and walk every day, because that annoys me the most when i get dizzy just walking. Peace out

The experts say to avoid alcohol because of the chemical/toxic effects it has on the brain. They compromise with one serving because they see the ability to relax from anxiety as having a beneficial effect.

Getting buzzed or even worse, drunk is strongly advised against. Add the risk of falling or getting aggressive as some do and drinking is a serious issue.

If you are still getting dizzy, you should get a vestibular assessment. There may be some therapies that can help.

If you return to exercising, low impact and low strain exercises are best. Weights often cause muscle tension, especially in the neck and shoulders. This can be a problem.

I work out with a rowing machine. There are plenty of low impact exercises.

Swimming can be good.

Keep in mind that exercise can cause an increase in symptoms that do not manifest until hours or even the next day.

Hi mark. Thanks for your answer!
Yeah, well. I can skip alcohol then until i am back to normal. I don't like that drug even. But ocassionally i can drink beer...
Good to know. One beer will not have a negative impact on me, but i mostly wanted to know how dizzy i got and i got dizzy, but i did not push it.
Will stay away from it a while. I will not drink beer then to get buzzed, or drunk.
Good to know. I agree It's a poison. I don't get agressive towards people when drinking. I can normally put on hard rock instead. Or cry sometimes. It only happens when i drink sometimes.. Dont know why, but thats how it works on me. Or i get happy it all depends.
But i will listen and stay away from it until i feel normal when walking..

I get worried sometimes that.. "What if i would feel like this for life. I don't want that/this. Would be very hard/though to have these symptoms all of my life."
....
But that is in my head. I sure do hope it will go away eventually! I don't want headaches/dizzy walking/foggy, etc. I want to be clear headed again and feel like before that stupid skateboard accident. Hmm.
But i need patience. It might be good in a month and 10 days. 3 months total.

I can ride a bicycle and it feels alright when i have tried it. But as i wrote.. The walking bit annoys me sometimes. I also Kinda have a hard time accepting how i ****ed up like that in a skateboard pool.. Without an helmet that particular time! But i need to accept it. It was clumsy, but **** happens i guess. Wish i would not been that clumsy and i would enjoy life more right now. ;) Still love life, but this is no fun at all the situation...
Pardon, im rambling. But i need to accept how and that it happened, and i need to think more positive. Have more patience! And stop worrying this is permanent. That will not help, and i might be fully healed in time. Might just take a while. Meditation. Acceptence. Recovery. And i'm alive! Could have died also, so yeah. I should be more grateful.

Anyways! Thanks mark, and rowing machine sounds good! If exercise like that don't affect my recovery i could perhaps try it out. Rowing machine is quite tough though after a while. ;) Before this i would sometimes row nonstop for like 30-40 min and yeah, that is good.
But i would take it slow if i started now. Or i can do push ups at home maybe.. Good that you mentioned muscle tension in the neck. I need to get my computer in a better place soon. Doing yoga for neck tension sometimes...
I got back pain since 3 years ago now and have not fixed that yet. Tried gym last year, but i can manage the back pain. Yoga is the best for me. Doing yoga for that at home.. Sometimes.

And alright. If symptoms shows up after exercise like those headaches i can wake up with once a week after 8 hours sleeep.. After not doing much the day before i will avoid it. Sometimes have a headache where every heartbeat feels in the head or when i walk, but not every Day. Thankful It's not that often i wake up with those and the Day is rest..

But i could also just "practice" longer walks... Then the brain needs to adjust and It's just me walking.. Rest, sleep, walk a bit.. Rest sleep.. Walk a bit.. Then it should go away the dizzy feeling eventually. And i can get a vestibular assessment if this persists more then 3 months...
Anyways. Thanks for the answer. Keep it up! Rowing is good for the body. Peace

Edit. Here is an awesome yoga video if anyone has neck pain or back pain. Thought i could post it. It has helped me Anyways.
Yoga Stretches for Back Pain Relief, Sciatica, Neck Pain & Flexibility, Beginners Level Workout - YouTube

Stop it with the rest. You need to be active in some way. Sleep only during sleep time. Low stress activity as much as you can the rest of the day.

I row 4000 meters in 20 minutes. The first week I rowed 3000 meters, then 3500 and quickly got to 4000. 4000 meters in 20 minutes is a good low stress workout. I've had women out row me. You should be able to to 3000 to 4000 meters. I'm and old codger at 62. When I am done, I swim for 10 minutes or play ping pong with older guys who kick my butt.

Why wait on the vestibular assessment ? Get it done so you can understand what is going on and lower your stress level. Look for a vestibular therapist who understand concussion issues. Some PT's are good at concussion related vestibular issues.

Hey. I complained much last time i wrote. Sounded negative that day. Was in a wierd mood.
Thanks for the answer.
Anyways. I might try and row in a while.
But no, i will not stop resting. I like it. But i agree i must also be active, sure.
It helps with stress for sure! Workout and endorphins.
I sure miss my endorphins after working out! The mental health gets way better also for me. And my back and all. I'm way younger then you, but sounds good that you work out like that. I love rowing machines! Good workout. I used to box on a bag, then row and lift weights... When going to the gym. I miss it. ;)
Instant stress release after a hard workout and high on endorphins! Time slows down, and it's very calming.

About vestibular assessment i don't think i got a balance problem because i can ride a bicycle without feeling dizzy. I'm mostly slow in the head at the moment and get dizzy when walking and i walk slow... Need to stop from time to time.
But i will wait a couple of months and just see how it goes. I might be as good as new in 2 months, who knows. ;)
Anyways. Thanks for the answer. I will just try and wait this one out...
But also try to enjoy life more even if i feel a bit limited now and low on energy.
Will try to row in a week or two perhaps. ;)
I could get more energy.

But i must also learn meditation and mindfulness more and work with the beast in me. Even though working out is a good way to feel better. Will test it out in a while even if i have read that people dont recommend working out until all symptoms are gone. They recommend rest and sleep... But also to be active if the symptoms dont get worse. But the body and brain should adapt to easy working out.. Like rowing machine in a slow tempo the first time and then gradually go harder, faster the next time, etc.
Take care. Im listening to a good audio book atm. Peace out

The experts do not recommend rest. They recommend normal sleep at normal times. The research studies show that rest after 48 hours is detrimental to recovery.

It was long thought that rest was always good until they did the research. I heard about the study from an expert who gave a presentation at our local neuro rehab hospital. She explained all the latest research about sleep and rest after head injury. The injured brain needs good blood flow to improve. Rest or even naps that are not full stage sleep just leave the brain clogged with toxins.

You appear to mix up many different concepts. Activity is good and important to the point below symptoms. Conditioning exercises to build cardiovascular or muscle condition is not recommended until all symptoms are recovered. The difference is intensity and whether you push to muscle break down. Muscle break down causes blood chemistry that is not conducive to the brain continuing to heal. Again, toxins in the blood.

But, sounds like you have your own ideas about recovery.

I don't row fast. I do 22 to 24 strokes per minute at a 200 meters per minute pace. It is refreshing and leaves my legs a bit wobbly for the first few steps. I get people who will sit down next to me and whip out 34 strokes per minute for 5 minutes. One guy can do 34 strokes per minute for 10 minutes. But, he is about 5'4" and built like a fire plug.

Alright, thanks. Good to know.

Hi again Mark. I thought about the study you read or knew about. About rest and 48 hours and all you wrote about. ( detrimental to recovery after 48 hours made me skeptical, because i need proof in life..) I became curious and want to read the scientific study on what you wrote. Can you link it on here?
Or website, etc. But the study or research in pdf would be cool. I like science. But new to this with concussions, etc.
Thanks. Peace out

I learned this from a neuro rehab sleep specialist when she presented at our local neuro rehab hospital. She had just attended a nation rehab and sleep conference and learned the latest.

Many studies show the first 24 to 48 hours are much different than after 48 hours. There are many therapies that work in those first 2 days that do not help after.

The key issue is good blood flow in the brain and good glymph drainage. Activity causes blood flow. Proper slow wave sleep causes glymph system drainage. Sleep that does not include REM and slow wave sleep has minimal value as it just lets toxins collect. Daytime sleep is shown to reduce the proper stages of sleep at night. Daytime sleep does not usually include the cycle of sleep stages. The stages are based on sleep within the circadian rhythm sleep pattern that happens at night.

Some of the information about brain function during different stages and types of sleep was not discovered until 2012-2013 when they were able to image the sleeping brain with the detail needed.

Alright. Thanks for the reply.
(I'm also changing my sleep pattern atm, so i will sleep at night instead like i usually do. ;) I like to sleep at night, but have been a night owl. But enough is enough, so i'm going to sleep during the night and try to stay a bit active in the days to come later on. Like going for walks during the day or try the gym easy the first time.
And the sleep quality is best at night also, i agree. I will just try to follow the day and night naturally as i want to do. Peace out)

The issue with sleep quality has to do with the brain's sleep rhythm. The science shows you cannot change the brain's sleep rhythm whether you are a natural early bird or a night owl. It has nothing to do with how you feel. It is about how the brain behaves during sleep. They see a range of rhythm for early risers (4 to 6 am) to late risers (8 to 9 am). The wake up time governs the go to sleep time. The later risers should be sleeping by 12 midnight for proper brain sleep. It is based on how the brain recognizes the light of day.

Hi. Yes, i fully agree. I stayed up all night yesterday and all day and slept at night when it got dark. And i slept awesome. (Deep.) I needed to stay awake a while to manage the day and night, but i fell asleep/crashed when it went dark and woke up when it was bright today, and it feels so much better.
I usually sleep during the night and get up at the day, but i can sometimes oversleep and i use a sleeping mask also. Eventually i oversleep,(little longer each day.) but now i will have a good rhythm for a while. Anyways, i got a deeper quality of sleep, but will keep this rhythm forward on and it feels better.
I will try to just follow the sun and the moon. ;) Sleep when it's getting dark, wake up when it's light. Feels much better. (I could quit using a sleeping eye mask later on, and that helps to have the sleep more natural later on so i don't switch it over time.)
Take care. peace out

I should have mentioned she taught us about the difference between feeling tired and feeling sleepy. Sleepy is a brain issue that controls the sleep rhythm. Tired is more of a physical or mental exhaustion. Increasing blood flow with activity can resolve tiredness. Daytime sleeping is usually in response to feeling tired but does not resolve a feeling of sleepy. Nightime sleeping is usually in response to being sleepy.

It sounds like your body is responding positively to you taking care of feeling sleepy.

When I saw the optimism in your first post, saying that you might be as good as new after a moderately severe concussion I knew you were setting yourself up for disappointment. Unfortunately, you will never be as good as new.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I will be the judge of that. Time will tell. ;)

Well, its clear you have an optimistic outlook, judging from your username too. Going unconscious for such an extended period is terrible and reflects rather significant brain damage though, you should be undergoing therapy at a hospital. Smutsik, who gave you advice, hit his head on a metal beam and felt no symptoms for days, making his a "mild concussion", and is still suffering badly from the symptoms. Your injury seems to be several orders of magnitude more severe.

Something to remember is every person & every injury is different.

Nobody can predict future outcomes, just too many variables..

The goal here is to share helpful information & be supportive to fellow members.
:)

Time will tell.
I will try walking every day, and let time heal me. I don't need hospital therapy. Thanks anyways. And i don't know how severe or not severe mine is compared to other peoples. Everyone heals different and everyone is different.
I was unconscious for 5 min, was up a bit, then and fell asleep for a while. But i did not throw up, and that might been a good sign. There are people who have shitted themselves and throwing up after a bad hit.. Like snowboarding, etc. And some of them have even recovered fully!
So everyone is different. I'm going to try and stay positive. But might take a break from this thread and try to heal for a while. (Try to limit the computer.) But i appreciate the answers/advice/knowledge on here.

I'm not sure about which impact of mine that you are referring to as the first concussion I sustained 1,5 years ago was against a window sill and the more recent one against a ceiling, but in both cases I felt substantial symptoms immediately. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?

I can only speak for myself, but I'm hoping for a complete recovery. I still have trouble with noisy environments and being around people but I'm currently managing studying sociology at university at full speed. It might take years before I'm fully (or as good as fully) recovered but I can't be sure that my healing has stagnated until I'm in the grave. I feel like the mentality regarding one's recovery has to be one's own.

Oh my bad, i thought you were the person who hit his head on a metal beam had no immediate symptoms then symptosm developed over the next few days.

Hi. I'm tired when writing this.. But i have had ups and downs. Still recovering, though. I have had days when i have felt quite fine (almost no symptoms at all.), and days when i felt a bit dizzy.
I feel like allot has recovered, but not fully recovered. Been 7 months now! That is a long time! I have not been to any doctor yet, but might go because i am wondering about the twitching i have before falling asleep, or resting from time to time. Might got epilepsy after that hit.. But i am conscious, or half awake.. My head twitches.. And sometimes my body. More like glitches.
It's mostly annoying. It started the first night after i hit my head. Then i was shaking in my sleep i think. (yeah, i woke up from that the first nights at home.) Now i just sleep deep and never wake up until after 8 hours, or how the night is.
I might go and see a doctor about this and just ask about why my head is shaking or twitching before i fall asleep, etc. Or when i'm resting sometimes.. Not sure if it's necessary.
Guess my nerve system got a big hit and my brain is trying to recover when i sometimes twitch. Or if it's "epilepsy" i don't know. Have not checked it out yet, but will or might..

Have anyone of you got epilepsy or twitching after hitting your head hard? Did it go away? But not unconscious epilepsy or twitching. I think, and i hope it will go away eventually. This might take time!
Thanks!


Edit: Found this
Involuntary Muscle Jerks Shakes Twitches - YouTube
Why Do We Twitch Before Falling Asleep? - YouTube

Almost like the dude resting, but sometimes a bit more "violent" and sometimes not.. My head moves to the side of the pillow and it feels like it's my nerves mostly. I can like throw up a leg sometimes, etc.
Wery wierd hehe. But apart from that i feel quite fine actually. ;) Almost back to normal. Not fully, but almost. Will wait out a year more. This will go away eventually. Might not be epilepsy, and Involuntary Muscle Jerks.. When resting or fallin asleep.

Read this in one comment under the video:
"This is perfectly normal. It's simply energy adjusting and harmonizing itself thorough the organism via the nervous system."

Or

"For me it is pretty obvious that the twitches are related to stress and anxiety but how can you decrease stress and anxiety?"

I don't have any footage on my twitches though. Apart from that i feel fine most of the time. ;)

I can also really really recommend LIONS MANE for you dudes, or girls. Research about it. I have taken it one month and things have improved! Seems like a miracle mushroom i stumbled across a while back. (NGF Nerve growth factor and neurogenesis.) Peace

The twitching is not epilepsy. I had it bad in the beginning. My doctor first treated it with clonazepam (a benzo) before bed. It made me sleepy the next day. He switched me to gabapentin and it worked great.

I never got a full explanation from my neuro but the gist is that it is just a benign event that is sort of a nerve restlessness as the motor nerves and proprioception nerves let go as one transitions from awake to sleep.

For me, there appeared to be a neck inflammation component. Once I learned how to mitigate my upper neck inflammation, the twitching all but ended. I get it on rare occasions now but they are few and far between. I still take 300 mgs of gabapentin before bed because my nervous system seems to want to stay on alert status if I don't.

Some of my sleep disturbance issues are due to sleep apnea. I can stop breathing properly even when I am awake.

I have had many different seizure like symptoms since my bad concussion at 10 years old in 1965. Every neuro told me these were not epilepsy. At most, they were a trauma related intermittent seizure disorder.

A hypnagogic jerk is an involuntary muscle spasm that occurs as a person is drifting off to sleep. The phenomenon is so named in reference to the hypnagogic state — the transitional period between wakefulness and sleep. Hypnagogic jerks, are also commonly known as hypnic jerks or sleep starts.

Hypnic Jerks - The Reason Why We Twitch Before Falling Asleep

Alright. Thanks for the answer Mark. I'm sorry about your accident, and that/if the damage went permanent.
Well, for my symptoms you might be right. But i don't twitch one time, my head can shake from side to side, etc. And press on the pillow with one side. But still, it can be the nerves...
I have also been under ALLOT of STRESS since this accident. My first weekend where i can drink like 5 beers since 8 months. puh. Some release actually.
I have also made a mistake on how i lay at the computer on my side and hold up my head with my neck muscle. And many many hours a day. So my right side of the neck probably have knots or is very stiff. I should try and loosen that up for blood flow, and going to get a computer chair like "normal people" sit at the computer later on. ;)
Got the keyboard on my bed. It's lazy, but not good for my neck. Need that to be massaged out some day. Probably good to have loose neck muscles for blood circulation to the brain in the best way..

Anyways. I have had normal twitches when falling asleep when younger, but these are more violent sometimes. But i bet it's stress and the nerves.. Or when i rest sometimes. Maybe hypnagogic jerks, etc. You might be right.

Anyways. I appreciate your answer mark. Thank you. Will look up the link. Also, try looking into lions mane if you have not heard of it. Seems very good, and maybe it can make some things better for you, i don't know. Keep on keeping on. Peace
Lion's Mane, Supportive to Brain and Nerve Functions - YouTube

edit: Also sounds good that your twitching went better, and has almost stopped. ;) Lions mane should help against twitching to i think. Or CBD hemp oil. (Or cannabis CBD oil.)

One month i tried meditating every morning, and that made me feel better also. Learning to meditate, but now it's been a while. A month maybe..
Feels like meditation helps also, if one can get the time to do so. I will try and continue learning that, i got side tracked and almost forgot about it. Trying sometimes.

There are two very important concepts to remember after a concussion.

1. Stay away from alcohol. One serving per day/evening is considered an acceptable risk as a stress reliever. No more than that. No getting buzzed, much less drunk.

2. Take disciplined control over your posture. The blood flow interruptions can make any and every symptom worse.

You prolonged struggles could be of your own making.

Stress increases the hypnogogic jerks.

btw, Mine would not be a single jerk but prolonged jerking (sometimes intermittent) as and after I fell asleep. My wife could not sleep be cause they triggered her to be waiting for the next jerk.

CBD oil requires up to 40 grams a day for a therapeutic effect. $$$$$

Lion's mane is not proven and hard to get and $$$$ at therapeutic amounts.

Why go after CBD or Lion's Mane when there are a lot of simple changes you can make to improve your recovery?

What have you done to reduce your stress levels?

If you use the Post Reply at the bottom left, it does not quote the previous post. It makes scrolling easier.