A Parent's Suicide
 

The suicide of a parent shatters a child's belief that he or she is lovable and worthy of being loved...When death happens suddenly or violently or after a long illness, a child must contend with the uncertainty of the world and with a parent's inability to prevent disaster. Yet that child knows that his or her parent did not want to die. Given a choice, he or she would prefer...to be there forever.

When a parent commits suicide, a child must contend with the fact that the parent died willingly, that he or she sought death and knowingly...left the child behind. The refrain of "if my mother or father loved me, how could they have left me?" haunts the lives of the survivors of suicide. Children may come to doubt their own worthiness and inherent goodness. Perhaps it was beause they were not good enough that the parent chose to leave them.

The Loss That is Forever: The Lifelong Impact of the Early Death of a Mother or Father Author Maxine Harris

Alffe, my mother spoke of her mother only twice after her mother died by suicide. My mother never recovered from the death by suicide of her mother. At times, I felt that my mother thought she was to blame for her mother's death, and my mother heaped the guilt onto me when I tried to die by suicide.

If we had had a group of people like the members here on SOS, our lives mights have been quite different. I'll never forget the time that I tried to explain my depression to my mother -- she told me to go ahead and kill myself and to tell her mother "hello" in hell.

Did that make sense? Those left behind after death by suicide continue to suffer. Unfortunately, I never had the maturity to help my own mother deal with her grief over her mother. And the legacy continues . . .

Thank you for your willingness to embrace those of us who are survivors of not just a loved-one's death but of our own screwed-up efforts. You helped me to be able to love my mother in a way that I'd never considered possible.

from my *heart,
reyn

dearheart...your post made perfect sense...but your inability to help your mother had nothing to do with maturity. You could not know, could not identify with her loss. Her response to you was unjustified....but... as a survivor, I can feel her pain.

Time....lots of time..really is our friend. :hug:

You are the next best thing to a loving, caring, understanding biological mother. I'm blessed to have met you.

And who would of thunk that a "Farmville" or a "Cafe World" could keep someone from going over the edge?!

ROFL.....:D Dang, I hate those flies!!! :D

I'm reading Voices of Strength Sons and Daughters of Suicide Speak Out
by Judy Zionts Fox, and Mia Roldan and I am taken by how many don't speak out...don't talk about it.

Michaels son was only 8 years old when his dad killed himself. He refuses to talk about it. I can only assume he feels that ultimate rejection. :(

Gosh, this thread makes me nod with understanding AND laugh at the same time... which really is a healthy thing, isn't it? :grouphug:

My thoughts are going all over the place....

I'm going to try and make some sense of what this thread has stirred up.

Reyn... my Dad was an alcoholic. I'm the oldest of 3 - Oh God, how I wanted to save my Dad... How I wanted to help him quit drinking ... when I was 10 my Mom took us away from my Dad (a very brave woman in the 60's... but I didn't know that... she never told us what we were doing)... 500 miles away... no one ever told us that we were leaving my Dad... we just moved...

I wrote to my Dad.... Dear Daddy letters... for 20 years... when he died, I found them... and still have them...every single one

I learned a lot about me... and am still learning.

Reyn, reading that you think you should have/could have/ would have/ helped your Mom ... reminds me so much of ME with my alcoholic Dad....

and with that realization comes the fact that JUST IN WRITING and READING OUR WORDS in this forum is helping us...

I'm very very lucky .... and a huge part of this is helping me heal... its very empowering....!

Reyn... you're very, very lucky too. I have admired you for years. I truly have - and I really had no idea who you were... but I knew that if you were sticking around and Alffe and so many others loved you... then you were a fighter!

Keep fighting for yourself dear lady!

We're all just human.

Its not easy being a human.

:hug: dear Affeee... it humbles me to realize your deep down sorrows


:sing: Addy

Addy, a post like yours brings me to my knees. Often, I write too much and don't write anything that is easy to read and then later try to get to my post so that I can delete the really personal stuff.

My life has been a strange journey. If I had never found online forums, I would be either dead or in a psychiatric hospital. There are times that I will be manic, with the numerous posts and e-mails to people, or depressed and keeping to my self when I write little and rarely speak to another human being.

It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I understood the love that my father had for me. My mother is another subject (anybody want to read or listen to years of problems, angst, guilt?), and my 3 siblings another complicated, complex matter. At least I can feel good about caring for my father for almost two years until he died -- but then I felt sick because I was not with him when he actually died.

Addy, I can't image the pain that you must have felt when you discovered all of your letters to your father. I found several letters to my dad that he had saved -- one was a letter that I had written on my computer, with some graphics, that was from "Cait" my min. schnauzer. We (Cait and I) had spent a week-end with my parents, and Cait had acted up and demanded attention and gotten on my dad's nerves. He really had a love for animals, and I was upset that my Cait had bothered my dad. (We didn't know that he had a large brain tumor, on his frontal lobe.) He saved that letter from Cait/me, and I think that he really appreciated that I loved him enough to write him a letter from my dog :)

Addy, I'm not deserving of anyone here. There have been just a few people who have stayed my friend through the past 10 years, and they have continued writing to me without any acknowledgment for several years. I am ashamed of myself because I didn't acknowledge the cards and notes through the years. I was very selfish and boarded myself up in this house.

I moved back here in 1998 to take care of my dad, and I feel that I failed my mother. If I could only redo those years! I didn't deal well with the breast cancer and 8 surgeries that followed. I moved my mother into a personal care facility and then into a nursing home. There is no going back. She and I had a "love/hate" relationship, and that has carried forward to my sister's and my relationship. I no longer even speak to either of my brothers and am just in the most basic communication with my sister.

I've lived a pretty screwed up life. I've been married and divorced more times that I'd like to admit. My only living child (an identical twin) is in poor health and living in an institutional setting -- how I HATE to say or write that word -- institution. It is what it is. I failed him, and I failed my mother.

And now? I'm in a situation that us unhealthy for me. But I stay, and I tell myself that I should be thankful for what I have. I sold my farm, but I have a house in town, and I was able to buy a small house with the intention to renovate and move into or sell. All I ever wanted was to live in a small house out in the country. It's not going to happen, and I've decided to give it up, stay where I am, and do the best that I can with what I have here. I have my two Westies -- I love them so much! They stay with, from dusk to dawn, even sleep under the covers on my bed ;-)

Addy, you wrote,

"and with that realization comes the fact that JUST IN WRITING and READING OUR WORDS in this forum is helping us..."

and that is the absolute Truth! You help me every single time that you speak to me on this forum, and you help me when you cause me to think about where I've been and why and where I am trying to go.

There are times when I speak too freely of what is going on in my head and my life. There are times when I am too ashamed to come here and try to share or try to help others. I tried to tell new friends here that I do care but I can't be counted on. Well, what kind of friend is that?!

So, here I am, very grateful for my friends and family here,
from my *heart,
reyn

I want to acknowledge that you are someone, Reyn... a real live person

Through every up and down you have persevered! I think you are a little like me... you make the best of the moment you are in... or at least you try. And that all balances on whether or not we're manic or wallowing in depression or somewhere in between.

I don't think you write too much. I learn so much more when you write.

Thank you for your kind words to me.

I didn't have pain when I found my letters to my Dad. They were like a journal of my life. I may write a book one day. I think about it all the time. I think I might start by scanning them and trying to put them into some type of order.

Please don't say you're not deserving... because that simply isn't true. :hug: Think about what I said - you have always influenced me... over these past 10 years... how amazing is that? I guess its because I have watched Alffe and Ptr.

I think its good for us to stir up thoughts in each other... I know we always try to be gentle... and when we don't , well, we feel just awful... but for the most part, we are a caring bunch, eh?!!

I'm going to be away for about 5 days after tomorrow so excuse my absence (altho I may have some computer time and pop on). I'm taking another flying leap into an unknown but exciting void... so my energies are elsewhere...

:sing: Addy (that singing face is a hint as to where I'm going and what I'll be doing!)

I am reminded of one of my daughters saying to her sister.."don't tharapy me!"...but reading here this morning I feel that is just what we try to do for each other, hoping that a light will go off and we'll begin to see ourselves as others see us.

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link the saying goes. Our link continues to hold regardless of how weak some of us may feel.

I repeat myself when I say that a handful of you, picked me up off the floor those many years ago and gave me back my life and I will be forever grateful for that. My life is not perfect and I struggle to continue living it sometimes but as Addy says, that just makes me human.

I'm so grateful to Doc John for giving us a home when John Lester could no longer provide one.

Hugs for the room. :grouphug:

I am bumping this up for a reason. The 8 year old boy who was left behind when our Michael killed himself, is now a grown man, with two children of his own. Thanks to facebook we have been private messaging and are finally going to get to meet those children in Nov..when we are going south for Thanksgiving.

His wife told me that she doesn't believe he ever dealt with his fathers death until he had a son of his own...and then the anger and bitterness rose to the top..he wondered "how could he have done that if he loved me?" I am so grateful that he now has a wife who "gets it" and can help him. I can't wait to see them all. :grouphug:

That's such good news Alffe -- about meeting those grandkids. Good for you - good for them. I'm so happy for you. I'll be hodling that special trip in my prayers.

Oh Alfffeeeee!!! yes! yes! :hug:

God, I'm at a loss for words... just know, my friend.... that this thread was very valuable for me to read again.

My stepfather
 

My mother was unhappy with my stepfather and had very good reasons. When Mom called it quits he tried to quit life. He did not succeed but the damage he did to his body was extensive. He later remarried and was happy with his new wife. There is a song about cloudy days being always followed by sun. Y'all please hold onto hope and the light at the end of the tunnel.

Alffe, I am so pleased to hear the news about your grandson and his children. I pray the meeting goes well. :hug:

My grandfather
 

My grandfather committed suicide before I was born. He was not depressed - he was protecting his family from the Mob to whom he owed a lot of money. My father lied to me for years about how he died and I wish he had been honest about it from the start. I'm not angry with him for this - I just don't understand why he didn't tell me the truth. :confused:

It was always easier to lie about suicide back then. Hopefully we are smarter now. (((katiebell)))

Everyone deserves the truth.

some thoughts
 

The fact that you feel shame, that you feel undeserving, speaks for itself. Ironically, it suggests to me that you were unable to do anything more than board yourself up... that was your self-defense mode. i don't know you hardly so i could be all wrong. it's just that i have a friend who behaves a lot like that. boards himself in... doesn't return calls, doesn't write, etc. i was reminded of him reading this, and his explanations... "i was too depressed to talk to anyone, then i was too ashamed that i hadn't replied in a timely fashion to contact anyone, then i got depressed again...." sadly, i am a bit like this too, so i can relate somewhat - i think i am a bit more extraverted than he is, which helps me reach out more. maybe you are more introverted... then it is very hard to reach out, even reaching back out is hard. does this ring true to you?

the ones that are truly undeserving, reyn, if any, are those that don't acknowledge the notes because they feel a sense of entitlement, and can't be bothered, and never feel badly for it, never consider any sense of reciprocity as being essential or even valuable to friendship.

when a friendship lacks reciprocity due to these attitudes, there you have an undeserving party. but that is far from what i heard in your account.

one that does the best they can, getting by one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time.

try to be a little easier on yourself (see pot call kettle black)

~ waves ~ with well wishes :hug:

how many lies must a child chow down?
 

I posted some time ago about a couple who both lost their lives within a month of each other, leaving behind two children aged ~ 11 and 8 (that does not sound quite right, can't recall exact ages now). the father was killed on a pedestrian crossing by someone running a red light (died on impact). the children were told daddy had gone on vacation. (right, without packing or saying goodbye.)

one month later, the mother hung herself inside her house. it was time for her to go pick up her kids at school. someone else had to pick them up obviously and they were told mommy had felt very ill and was in hospital but could not be visited because she needed rest. a week later, after funerals (which they were not informed of/allowed to attend) they were told she had died of a heart attack.

the children were removed from the school by an aunt/uncle, transplanted to another city and are being raised with another family to avoid learning the truth from the grapevine.

i still cannot wrap my brains around that one. first, i think at some point someone in the house will talk about events surrounding and the kids will overhear it, or they will become suspicious in some other way that they were lied to.

i still cannot fathom that that poor woman was forced to keep a happy face for the kids (daddy on vacation, remember?) instead of being allowed to grieve her husband. she was expressly suicidal and was not hospitalized. she was given benzos, and according to my cousin (her close friend) was visibly "doped up" most of the time... if it were that noticeable, the drugs could magnify her depressive sx rather than alleviate tension. :( she was not allowed to see her husband's body because it was too messy (granted). she was not allowed to be taken to the location of his death - she kept asking to go - because it was feared she would attempt to die the same way. it seems to me she tried to somehow "connect" to his death... process it, and her relatives kept her confined to a "safe unknowing" ... just like the kids.....

with the kids...... it would seem to me a gradual disclosure need not involve lies. one could be more vague and as the children inquired more, one could be more specific. therapy should be provided immediately of course.

the relatives also "disappeared" the note that the mother left, because it expressly designated who she wished to have guardianship of the children - and those who found it did not happen to agree, and did not want those cited in the note to know. i'm guessing mom knew those ppl were liars... :(

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so i ask, again, since many of you were not around when i posted then,

does any of this make sense?

the relatives insist the children "can never find out" ... (which i don't believe, but ) ... supposing that were true, does it sound better for the children to learn daddy disappeared permanently on vacation and mom had a heart attack after being mysteriously sequestered in hospital for a week without being allowed to see her once? than to learn of the accident and suicide?

for one, i can't help thinking if they'd been told of the accident, and she hadn't had to keep that happy face, they may still have a mother instead of a legacy of lies.

does lying to the children make sense? i can see that knowing the reality of these events would have a life long impact, but lying about it doesn't seem right ... does anyone think the truth with therapy would screw them up worse than all these mysteries?

~ waves ~

Dear Alffe

I am happy for you, and for your grandson and his family. :hug:

~ waves ~

This is wrong on so many levels it makes me sputter to think about it. Children need to be told the truth as simply and directly as possible. Depending on their age, they could be told that the parent had a sickness that made them so sad they didn't want to go on living. And depression is a sickness as we all know.

It's those "adults" who can't handle it waves. And it will come out...it will take it's toll on those survivors. :(

I was so embarrassed when my mom told everybody at church that I had attempted suicide. Wasn't it MY choice since it happened to me? I mean, it's not like I had cancer or some other disease that I didn't cause. Seems to me like she was fishing for sympathy... :eek:

Shame on her!! That was not hers to tell.....I would have yelled at her!! :mad:

Wouldn't have worked!!! My parents love me, but I have no voice with them. My opinions and heartfelt pleadings aren't heard. I mean, who would listen to a former drug addict anyway? I've come so far - shouldn't I get credit for that? Oh, I could just scream obscenities right now!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

I have more to say cause my last post has awakened my resentment!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG doesn't what I have to say even matter to my parents? Geez, if I had told my mom that I was having suicidal feelings in the first place, she probably would've told that to her church friends too!!!!!!!!!!! The only good thing that came out of all of this was that I was able to comfort a family that lost their son/brother recently... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Katiebell

You matter to us.

Donna:hug::winky::grouphug:

I know that my parents are who they are and that they did their best to raise me. I am just so frustrated because I don't understand them as people. How could I be so different from them when THEY raised ME? Is this a Nature vs. Nurture issue? I'm not really seeking an apology from them (because I know I'll never get one) - I just want to understand so my heart and mind can find peace!

Thanks so much for your support, Donna!! :hug:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...t=parents+fail


:grouphug: for Katiebell who I suspect is not yet a parent. :)

All I gotta say, Alffe, is that you hit the nail on the head!! :wink: I'm finally (almost) ready at the age of 35 to be a parent! :hug:

Ok, I just read it and I can totally identify with the expectations that are put on the child when the parents feel that they have failed. Also, I fear that I was overparented - just recently I have come to trust my own decisions and opinions. For the longest, I relied on others to make decisions for me and to tell me how I should feel. You're so right, Alffe, I need to let go and forgive...

Some of this could have to do with my diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder. :confused:

Katiebell..we all struggle with "something". Labels suck! I think you are doing great!! :hug:

I just want to understand why my mom told everyone so I can put it to rest in my own mind.

KatieBell
 

I can and do appreciate that you have lifted yourself up from addiction. I also feel for you that people are unappreciative of how far you have come. It reminded me of when I promised my mom i would quit my addiction if she would quit drinking. I broke my promise. Years later I had been clean for about 10 years but mom was drinking even heavier. after she died we found a liquor store in her things. Not the one glass of wine supply a day that was in her facade, but gallons and gallons of hard liquor. i later found out from one of her friends that she did not consider me capable of taking care of her in spite of how far i had come. instead of confiding her pride she only took with her the disappointment. i guess progress and overcoming odds is not viewed as accomplishment, but dang i am proud of you so don't you forget it. and cherish your mom anyway. you will probably miss her when she is gone like i do mine.