Have PCS, just spun out my car into the ditch, could I have made things worse?
 

Hey, I've had PCS since September (well, February banged my head twice) and things have been a slow healing process. Trying to be patient.

Just an hour ago I lost control of my car on an icy road and spun it into a ditch. I didn't hit my head on anything or felt like my body was flung around, but now I feel a little weird. My scalp is tingly but that seems to be related to my scalp nerves (I had this problem before.) I feel dizzy and a little nauseous. Some confusion too, such as trying to register to this site. Heh.

I'm scared I may have ****ed up my brain yet again and now the effects will be even more worse or prolonged. Am I just stressing out? I didn't think I screwed anything up but well I'm a little confused and paranoid.

Eddy,

Have you ever seen a chiropractor since your head hits? It is common for the neck to be injured during a concussion. It is worth checking out. Try to find a chiropractor who has specific experience with concussion.

Also, stress, especially the stress of an experience like you had, can cause symptoms to increase. Relaxing can be helpful. Maybe some soothing music and a nap or just quiet rest.

Hope this helps.

Eddy,

You first need to go see a medical doctor to ensure you didn't cause any damage that might require emergency medical attention. Not that you should worry but it is better to be safe then sorry.

I would then begin researching possible neurotherapies for your brain. These include (but are not limited to) neurofeedback, vitamin/mineral balance, hormone, HBOT, diet, etc... Since you have had two head jostles in a short period of time, you may need to do some therapy to heal your brain. Good luck.

Even at slow speed, coming to a sudden stop can send your brain bouncing against your cranium. I know how doing even small things (even a big sneeze), can flair existing symptoms. That can make it hard to tell if you've just suffered a new concussion.

You might want to check yourself for some of the most common symptoms. You've already got some (like stomach upset), but are your pupils even and can you walk heel to toe? Have a friend check that you can track objects with your eyes. Assuming you could do it before, can you still count backwards by threes? If you have any doubt at all, I second the advice to seek medical help.

I'm sorry about your car and I hope this doesn't set back your recovery.

Take Care

Back again.

To clarify things, I hit my head once in February by fainting and it started this nerve problem in my head along with a concussion (and visual issues.)

Back in September due to irresponsible drinking and irresponsible friends I ended up hitting my head or SOMETHING. All I know is that they said I face planted with no visible marks or nothing and now I have some bad (but slowly recovering) memory issues.

Thanks for the suggestions, yeah, I really want to see a specialist. I saw two doctors, one said to stop drinking (I have) but when I asked about vitamins I can take such as DHA she said there wasn't any documented evidence of people recovering from that stuff. She sent me to a neurologist who said I should take some Painkillers for the scalp injury and to rest. After that my insurance wanted me to file a statement because I didn't have insurance during February but I did back in September.

Also. This morning I had a final and three papers to write. Did all of those pretty well, although in the beginning I kinda had trouble mixing my words but I seemed to get that over with.

I was diagnosed with Trigeminal Neuralgia for the head pain. It's hard to determine if I have a headache from the concussion or if the nerves are just flaring up.

Also yeah, I seem to be walking around with no problem and I'm counting backwards from three pretty easily. 97, 94, 91, 88, 85, 82, 79, 76...

Hey Eddy,

I'm glad it sounds like you didn't do yourself any new damage. :)

I got nerve damage along with my TBI, too, so I know all about the tingles (scalp, ears, hands, feet,etc...). Do you get burning, pulsing and shock sensations, too? Fun, fun, fun!

Anyway, I find, generally, that my tbi headache seems to hang around my temples and eyes, while the neuro damage one likes the back and front/top of my head. The only "treatment" I've been offered is immobilization to decrease symptoms. All attempts to surgically repair the sort of spinal damage I suffered, have put the patients in wheelchairs.:eek:

Cheers

Keep checking on yourself like you are.

Sounds like everything is fine.

Donna

Hahah yeah, nerves can be a pain, literally.

Anyways, maybe some symptoms flared up. There feels like pressure on the top of my scalp and my vision may be getting weird again, and I'm catching myself doing some dumb things. Could be all in my head (hah.)

Is this a temporary flair up? Will these symptoms last a while? It kinda sucks, I thought I was doing good for a while and this happens.

Hey Eddy,

I have flair ups from time to time. Usually it's because I've managed to move my head too quickly. How long they last depends on how much of a shake I've given myself. Sometimes it's so bad, I feel like I've just come to after the accident.

All I can tell you is that the more you rest, the faster you'll get back to "normal." Yeah, I know it's frustrating, but fighting it will only make it worse. Resistance, as they say, is futile.

Take Care

Hockey,

How long have you been experiencing the tingles?

I had head tingles regularly until a year ago or so. I think it was tied to poor blood flow because of my neck injury.

If your tingles started recently and you got a H1N1 vaccine, they may be related. There have been many tingling side-effects from the H1N1 vaccine, usually in the legs but sometimes over other areas of the body.

Eddyshead,

I can get bad concussion symptoms from just shaking my head as in 'No.' Bumpy roads can also do me in.

The spinning motions could have caused such a problem.

Did you ever get checked out by a chiropractor?

Yeah, I got checked by a chiropractor for a month. First meeting started the day after I got my head hit again (the pain started in February) When I first had the head pain it was centered to one singular spot. Now afterwords it feels more spread out.

I don't know if that's from the chiropractor or the second hit.

Hi Mark,

I've had the tingles since the beginning. The accident did loads of damage to my neck. I saw a gifted chiro I really respect, but he said it was too dangerous to work on my neck, because there had been so much shifting and swelling. I came within a hair of being paralysed from the neck down.

I know what you mean about head nodding and bumpy roads. I'm always begging my husband to slow down as we navigate the potholes. He looks at me like I'm nuts - so I'm going to show him your post.

At the moment, I'm having a vicious flair because I pulled my head out of the way when a kid decided to try out his new football at a Christmas party. Of course, as I have an exaggerated startle reflex from the TBI, this sort of thing happens all too often.

I need to follow my own advice and retreat to bed. However, with a small child I have keep going so I don't ruin her Holiday.

I HATE BEING THIS FRAGILE!:mad:

I hate the fragility too. I feel so emasculated being this delicate. Or how I can't wear hats or anything.

Anyways, it's been a week - my logic seems pretty sound. But my head feels more pressure than usual. My balance seems a little off again. I've been able to sleep, so I don't think I gave myself another concussion.

I dunno, maybe my stress is freaking me out. I'm kinda scared about it, y'know? How awful that I've had to put up with this concussion all through this semester, memory lapses and all, only go get worse through vacation?

update: Okay, I think insomnia is kicking in. Not good. Symptoms coming in a week after the incident. Does this mean I have another concussion?

Yeah, I couldn't get to sleep. My head's throbbing.

That's not the worse thing. I'm with my family and my mother notices, she seen me with my previous concussions and nerve problems and what it's doing to me. She tells me "I feel so sorry for you. A year ago you had the world by it's tail..." I cut her off and walked away.

I'm now in a private room sobbing uncontrollably. God. :(

Oh Eddy, PCS attracts insensitive comments like an outhouse draws flies. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this all at the Holidays.

I've also retreated to a private room. I'm trying to escape my uncle's questions about when I'll be strapping on the skates and getting back to work since, "I look so healthy." I felt like saying, "When your hair regrows and you lose the man boobs."

Eddy, let's take a deep breath together...

It's true though, I think about where I was before all this happened and it's heartbreakng

It's not fair, I had to suffer through this semester getting by, thinking "oh, I'll have the holidays to rest." Now this happens! If symptoms appear a week after all of this, that means my brain is swollen again i.e. another concussion, right? God, I'm going to have to nurse another concussion during the Holidays, I don't how much can my brain take. :(

I get flair ups all the time from things as simple as a big sneeze. I'm not sure, but I doubt mine are new concussions. Of course, a car accident is no sneeze. Someone like Mark would have a better understanding of what's actually happening. You might want to PM him as he might not be watching the board as closely over the Holidays.

Of course, I know the frustration of dealing with a brain injury. It's been three years, and although I try to always look forward, I still have moments when I get angry or just weep for what I've lost. And I lost a lot: I was a serious athlete a professional and the world's most patient Mommy. In contrast, the loser who hit me, who walked away with nary a scratch, is just wasting his life at the bottom of a bottle.

Clearly there's grieving process involved in having a serious TBI and I haven't reached the "acceptance" stage yet.

Eddy,

Most likely you are experiencing a decompensation rather than a new concussion. Your brain is very sensitive to any form of stress. The anxiety of the spin out could be enough. Or you could have a bit of whiplash.

Have you consumed any alcohol? It can also cause problems. You need to stop all alcohol, even a simple glass of beer or wine.

You also need to accept that your life is different now. Some of your old life may return but worrying about it will only delay healing. Many of the drugs prescribed for concussion are to treat the anxiety and depression that is common with PCS. They can help reduce the anxiety/stress levels. Amitriptyline and Nortriptyline have been beneficial to some, and usually in smaller than normal doses.

Some of my best life decisions were to not push myself so hard. I have made these choices many times. There are many ways to be successful. Not all of them require that you drive yourself nuts with stress.

Remember, from now on your are living with an injured brain. If your non-violent spin-out can cause trouble, think of the other stressors you are prone to.

If you are struggling with school, go visit the disabilities department. There are systems to help you lower your stress levels and study under less stress. You quite possibly qualify for extended time for taking timed tests. Maybe a quieter testing environment too.

Hockey, Your uncle deserves a smart answer. I like your suggestion. Or maybe, "Does poor body condition make one incompetent? If so. your man boobs are lowering your IQ daily." LOL

If anybody walks past a lost and found, check and see if anybody has turned in a mind. I think I have lost mine. LOL

When we have to absorb people's ignorant criticisms, I like to think of what Winston Chruchhill once said. At a social function, a woman approached him and said, "Winston, you are drunk." To which he responded. "Ma'am, you are ugly. Tomorrow, I'll be sober."

Thanks Mark. I've stopped Alcohol all together since September.

Feeling better, I managed to get some sleep. I've been googling Nuerofeedback and saw a place near me. I think I'll check it out. Get some therapy. Also yeah, college, I'll check out their programs as well.

Eddyshead,

Good to hear you are looking into neurofeedback. FYI, just make sure that he/she has experience treating head injuries as we can be a bit difficult to find the correct protocol for. Also, try and find someone who does either LENS, Othmer or pROSHI treatments. And definitely have them do a QEEG for coherence issues. Also, you may want to get your hormones, vitamins, etc. checked out because sometimes the neurofeedback won't work if these aren't in optimal range. Good Luck!

Still getting sleep, still have dreams (kinda stressful though, vampires this time!)

I got something new. Back when it was bad and I couldn't sleep, I thought I felt popping. I thought it was just in my head (hah!)

But this morning I woke up and I heard it, the popping, coming out of my nose. I can't find any explanation for this on the internet. Kinda worried right now.

Okay.

An update: The pressure in my head must be adjusting or something. I don't really understand. Again today I woke up, felt pressure in my head, and heard and felt popping noise in my ears and nose. Now my scalp nerves feel like they're acting up. I could taste blood earlier, now I noticed my nose is bleeding.

Hey.

Went to the chiropractor's today. Felt really good afterwards. Until I was heading back home and some jerk pulled out in front of me. I hit the breaks going at 20 mph, slid across snow until I came to a sudden, jerking stop.

I think I'm getting the same beginning symptoms as before, pressure, fatigue, a little "out of it."

All in my head? Is this more anxiety screwing up my head? Should I just stop driving now?

edit: maybe I have an anxiety problem

Eddy,


Your symptoms sound serious. If you are tasting blood, having nose bleeds, hearing popping sounds, etc, you need to see a doctor. You may have a serious condition that requires medical attention. It is better to be safe than sorry.

Oh, ****.

About that thing yesterday. I didn't think of it as much but today I woke up with a weird migraine. It felt like my eyes were vibrating. It faded away now but my head still kinda hurts.

Read up on it, it sound be sinus's and the blood in the nose from the dry winter.

Or it could be small blood vessels in my head popping.

I'm about 120 miles away from my normal hospital. My G/F told me a town a half hour away has one.


It did stop, I haven't had it happen again. But I'm kinda weak in the muscles as well.

edit: feel very tired, very tired

double edit: scheduled an appointment next Thursday, feels too long. Contemplating going to the ER tomorrow. Worried about insurance.

Eddy,

What is a G/F? General Practitioner/Family Doctor?

You need to make the effort to be seen by someone besides a GP or Family doctor. You need some questions answered before you make things worse or get so overloaded with anxiety that you have other problems. I would strongly suggest having someone go with you and sit in the exam room and take notes. Bring a journal of your past few weeks and have them make sure the doctor gets the list.

I would try to avoid describing things in medical terms. You want to avoid being labeled a cybercondriac (person who has self diagnosed from information found on the internet). Cybercondriac and somatoform can be the kiss of death if they get written in your medical record.

I don't know about your chiropractor but mine have always provided a same day follow up for no cost. If yours doesn't, maybe he would when you get messed up just driving home.

Regarding anxiety, you do sound like your anxiety level is above normal.

Oh. G/F. Yeah, I meant my girlfriend.

Holy ****, thanks for the cybercondriac warning.

I'll go see a specialist.

Cybercondriac:( We just can't win, can we? If you don't know anything, the doctors steam roll you. If you know too much, you're a cybercondriac. You have to be so subtle and tactful to get the attention you need from doctors. Too bad a TBI often robs us of those very qualities.

Eddy, I agree with the others that you should strongly consider seeing a specialist in the wake of your recent car accident. Better safe than sorry.

Take Care

In my opinion, I wouldn't worry about the cyberchondriac label. If you suspect your doctor thinks you are a cyberchondriac, you could always find research articles on the internet that prove what you are trying to get him/her to diagnose. Remember, most doctors don't know anything about head injuries and the problems they can create within our bodies. I actually had to do this a month ago when I wanted to get my hormones checked out. My doc thought I was completely nuts for wanting to do that until I brought in a medical article discussing the misdiagnosis of hormone deficiencies following brain injuries. And since that day, he has been nothing short of cooperative. He is even the one who suggested getting my progesterone levels checked and possibly beginning progesterone treatment.

The other thing you can do is fire that doctor and find another one. There are plenty of doctors out there who are more liberal than your average doctors, and you usually have to go through short trial and error period to find one. I had to do this as well a couple of years ago with my neurologist. At the time, the guy was one of the leading sports concussion specialists in the country. He even came up with the criteria for diagnosing mild to moderate concussions. I asked him during one of our appts. about neurofeedback and he told me it was nothing more than voodo magic and mumbo jumbo. I subsequently came back to him with solid research articles that proved its effectiveness, and the narrow minded "you know what" wouldn't even look at it. He told me he wasn't interested and that I was on my own with this. I fired him and found a neuropsychiatrist who did believe in neurofeedback. It's a good thing I did this because I never would have tried neurofeedback if I had stayed with him.

One thing to remember about doctors is that most of them are good at memorizing material and regurgitating it. They are not necessarily "intelligent" people from the aspect of being able to think critically and "outside the box." Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the get brainwashed in medical school to only treat symptoms and not the underlying cause - this is why so many neurologist prescribe anti depressants for pcs even though it has been demonstrated in studies to do more harm to an injured brain than good -. And, as everyone knows, the pharmaceuticalIn industry has a big play on this as well. Furthermore, our current medical system is set up so that a lot of them don't have the time nor the desire to try and treat every symptom of pcs. Plus, remember that neuroplasticity has only recently become accepted in the medical community. So, a lot of experienced doctors were trained in the old dogma that you can't treat a head injury.

In my journey to recovery, I found that I am my own advocate and the doctors are just a resource for me to get the therapy/medication I need. I strongly believe that we are in control and that we hire them to perform a service for us. Unfortunately, a lot of doctors think it is the other way around. Obviously there are times that they are more knowledgeable on a subject and we should defer to their expertise, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't work with us, instead of at us, to help us heal ourselves. But, that is just my opinion...

cybercondriac?
 

I was not using the term cybercondriac as your response implies. Many doctors will do much better with a suggestion rather than us giving them our self-diagnosis based on on-line research. Your current doc appears to be open to suggestion. He probably would have been more defensive had you said, "This is what is wrong with me and I want it treated this way."

I have been seen by many different egos and communicative styles. I was checking my blood glucose levels and one doctor got after me as "over doing it with self diagnosis." I responded that I was just trying to figure out if my blood glucose was a contributor to my sleepiness. I explained I was being overwhelmed with sleepiness at inappropriate times. This he understood.

A recent rehabilitation doctor called qEEG and neurofeedback 'soft science' as her polite way of calling it worthless. I discounted her opinion and no longer see her.

My current physician is very open to learning. He tends to jump to new research a bit fast but his openness to it is refreshing.

We need to be cautious as we present ourselves to doctors. If we are in a health care system where our records are available to all of our doctors, only one has to make a derogatory comment such as somatoform, prone to self diagnosis, or cybercondriac and it can taint our relationship with other doctors. The new changes to health care will attempt to get medical records so that they are easily available to all of our doctors. As such, we need to be cautious to avoid getting a bad label.

Kaiser Permanente in California is such an system. Patients who have thick files are labeled just by the thickness of their file. Add somatoform to the computerized record and you might as well stay home.

I would like to see a provision in health care reform that gives us a way to respond to being labeled somatoform, cybercondriac, uncooperative, etc. Just because I have a philosophical objection to a certain treatment does not make me uncooperative. But some doctors act like a god. Only their ideas have any merit.

This is especially a problem in the MTBI/PCS community.

Hey, some update.

A week and so after things got a little better. Head pain gone, I relaxed a bit, could get some sleep. Got an appointment with my doctor who prescribed me with PCS.

When I went to see the doctor, things were pretty alright. I told her what was up, she explained what happened as migraines and noticed a pattern that anytime I usually drive on bumpy roads it can occur. The temporary bad memory and such were also explained to be a side effect of migraines. But from the sounds of it she has a migraine issue and is the sort of doctor who then associates that with any sort of pain trouble the patient has. Or it could just be migraines and I'm judgemental (although this observation of mine is an old trait, and it coming back to me is sorta in a weird way a good sign, I guess) I dunno. The "popping" now seems to be more about the back of my neck and the dry icy weather seems to be the cause of my nose.

Asked about Nuerofeedback, she said it was a really good idea and I should ask my insurance if they'll cover it. She also said that in the meantime I can do some "brain exercise" and shown me a couple I can do with my girlfriend (although from the looks of it I could be doing this with Brain Age on my Nintendo DS.) Said I appeared to be getting better in just my behavior and in the following months I'll see more of an improvement. I don't know if that means anything much honestly and it could just be one of those "the power of suggestion" things.

She also said that in a couple months I should be able to "casually" drink. I don't know if I should take that with anything more than a grain of salt.

Took an MRI scan, I got a call saying that they didn't find any sort of blood or sign of brain damage. That's pretty good, I think! I hope that means that none of this is permanent and I don't have TBI.

Also I've been noticing a few signs that my memory may be returning. I listen to a bunch of radio shows, since the concussion I replay them over and over because I just couldn't remember. Including a radio series that stopped a while ago (because hey, if I can't remember any of it, it's new to me right?) I skimmed over that canceled radio series and discovered I was going through each one thinking "yeah, I remember this one" and that bored feeling like I know everything that's going to happen on the show. I listened to a new one just recently and I managed to retain most of what happened! I can also now randomly recall things. I can't retell things in perfect detail, but I've been getting better that remembering bigger things.

Went to the chiropractor again, the nerve pain has changed and now all the pain seems to be located right at the back of my neck. That's can improvement, I hope I can go back after this vacation and soon be rid of most of the pain!

Then, well, I went on an airplane. Probably a dumb move. But I had tickets and me and my girlfriend planned this out months ago so I had to go. Things were pretty alright until the near end, then it felt like for a couple seconds that someone knifed me in the skull, then I had that "wet" feeling again. Now I have small headaches that occur around at night. Nothing too bad yet, in fact that "breakthrough" with the radio show (the new episode, not the canceled ones) occurred after flight, but it hasn't been a week. I have to take the plane again as well.

Also that's interesting about hormone therapy because my **** is kinda broken now too and I would really like to fix that for romance's sake.

ALSO!

Energy drinks, can my cause damage to my brain? How about sugar substitutes?

Eddy,

You docs line "couple months I should be able to "casually" drink" sounds very suspect to me.

I have a similar problem with bumpy roads. I have discovered that I need to lean forward so that my shoulder blades are not touching the seat back while traversing bumps in the road. I cannot tolerate an ongoing bumpy road.

Bumpy roads will set me back to the 'dark ages.' Don't want to be there again.

The negative or normal MRI is to be expected.

As the old saying goes, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." The doctor replies, "Stop doing that."

Eddy, your real life experience with cause and effect is far more valuable than the offhand comments of an M.D. Use your good sense to make changes to your behavior. The doc will never be adequate to this task.

Yeah, it's suspect to me too. But I'm a college student in a party college town (guess how I messed my head up?) and drinking is common and she probably pities my sober shrinking-social-circle butt.

I think she means I can have like a bottle of beer or something to that effect. "You'll have to treat one drink like it's ten." She said.

That's kinda disappointing about the MRI then. Well, I mean that it's pretty nice there aren't any holes but I guess it also doesn't mean that things aren't as bad as I think they are and it will be over hunky dory. I probably should of suspected that from my fragility.

Hey Eddy,

Standard MRIs are not sensative enough to see torn and damaged axons. As a consequence, even people with profound cognitive deficits can have "clean" MRIs. If you want the technical song and dance about trying to image a TBI, let me know. However, the best way to assess the true impact of a brain injury is a neuro-psych exam. If you haven't had one, I strongly suggest it.

Cheers

Can I just ask a doctor for a neuro-psyche exam? Also yes, I'd like to hear about trying to get an image of a TBI.

Is it likely the doctor's wrong and I have a TBI instead of PCS?

Isn't PCS the result of a TBI? A concussion is a form of traumatic brain injury. Perhaps if we called them what they are, doctors and coaches would take them more seriously.

Yes, you can ask your doctor to arrange a neuro-psych exam. Make sure the neuro-psychologist in question has ample experience with conducting and evaluating the test.

Diffusion tensor imaging, Quantitative Magnetic Resonance and Magnetization Transfer Ratio are all options for TBI patients. However, all of these are very expensive, and while they MAY show some of the damage, they can't explain how that is playing out is your daily life.

The neuro-psych test remains the best way to know how your injury is effecting your actual brain function.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Hockey;611520]Isn't PCS the result of a TBI? A concussion is a form of traumatic brain injury. Perhaps if we called them what they are, doctors and coaches would take them more seriously.
/QUOTE]

I totally agree! The reaction from people is very different when you tell them your kid has a concussion vs. MTBI (even mild in front of TBI seems ironic). The expectations for recovery and the degree of the injury are different.

After my daughter's injury, I spend hours researching concussions and never really found good resources for what we were experiencing. When I made the shift to starting looking at it as a TBI - I was able to find so many more resources that better explained what I was seeing.

I've been recovering. Made some progress I guess.

Since the spinout I use to wake up everyday with these weird migraines. I didn't wake up from them - they would kick when a couple of minutes after I wake up from sleeping. Like I could feel my brain start up. For the past three days I haven't had one.

I've been having a couple of lucid dreams. At first I didn't have dreams, then when the dreams started to return they were sort of dreams where they were vivid and felt real. Or sometimes they can even screw with your head and sort of trick you when you wake up. But I've had two dreams in the past two weeks where I became aware that I was in a dream! I haven't had a lucid dream in a long, long time and seeing them return is kinda nice.

Borrowed an old Nintendo DS and a copy of Brain Age 2 about two weeks ago. I've been making progress. I started with a mind of a 65 year old, for a 22 year old that seemed sort of bad. I couldn't do much of the sections effectively (memory, math, word scambling, etc.) and for the first week I was going from 65 to 45. Slow progress, but breaking records each time. Now I'm down to 28-29. Not optimal, I'm bad at some such as the word scramble. But I think it been helping me out. I wish they had more memory games, I felt kinda proud when in the number memory game I memorized 19 numbers out of 25 but the game only lets you do that at random every other day.

Noticed changes in reading, I've been reading old sentences again and noticing puns or more word plays. I've had a problem for the longest time whenever I would read this weekly comic I wouldn't be able to remember it at ALL. Not the title, not the joke, not even the illustration. Now I've been able to recall most of it.

Not magically healed yet, my vision is still crappy and such. But it seems like I'm having my "good days" right now and they're better than before.

My girlfriend did accidentally headbutt me last night, but I didn't see any lights and I pulled back good enough, we did sort of just "bounce" off of each other. I think it did upset the nerves in my head.