Tamiflu for PN Pain???
 

My friend Steve just asked me to post this subject on these forums. I said I'd be happy to oblige.

It seems he has a friend with Peripheral neuropathy for 10 years. The guy got the flu, and was prescribed Tamiflu by his physician. HIS PN PAIN WENT AWAY. After some time, the pain came back, and he again asked his physician to give him some more Tamiflu.

SAME RESULTS. Pain went away.

Steve has asked me to run this by all of you.

Has anyone ever heard of Tamiflu as a treatment for PN, and if so, what is it about Tamiflu that could affect PN pain??

Thanks much!!!

Melody

Tamiflu has some neuro effects. In fact some kids in Japan became psychotic on it.

It has antiviral effects also...and recently was shown in one study to not really be effective for the flu at all.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread110576.html

So at this point it is hard to say what is going on with your friend.

Hi Mrs. D.

Actually, it's a friend of Steve that had this happen to him. I'll pass along the info that you gave.

Thanks much

Melody

There is also another treatment...if one could call it that...

The chronic pain the RSD patients have, has shown response to
ECT (electroconvulsive therapy). It was discovered by accident when a depressed RSD patient was given ECT for the depression and the pain the RSD went away.

There is a link about this at RSD forum here:

http://www.painphysicianjournal.com/...10;573-578.pdf

I'll look around today for you about Tamiflu and see what I can find. I didn't have the time for it yesterday. If there is anything else, I'll put it on this thread.

This is the link to Patientsville about Tamiflu. Scroll down for the FDA reports on this drug:
http://patientsville.com/medication/...de_effects.htm

I see hallucinations coming up frequently. I also found a technical paper on PubMed saying that Tamiflu concentrates in the brain up to 2.7 times more than serum.

There is a pain loop in the brain. Now, this is very complex. I've attended two seminars about this subject over the last 2 yrs, and it was presented at both. It is still hard for me to understand it. And I imagine most doctors don't understand it either! (many of the attendees were doctors).
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/568704_9
There is a diagram showing it in the article.
If you don't have a membership to Medscape you can join for free.
Because of the complex copyright issues with Medscape, I can't quote the article.
Suffice it to say, this central (in the brain) pathway is being investigated today, to find newer pain medications. One aspect of this pathway involves serotonin receptors, and that is why some drugs used for pain like tramadol and antidepressants work to some degree.
It is possible that Tamiflu, which goes into the brain, has some undiscovered effect on this pain loop. The fact that this drug causes hallucinations in people reflects some action on brain receptors.
It would take some intensive study to discover how this works, if it is the same response in everyone or an idiopathic response in the person who reported the Tamiflu effects on his pain.

Thanks very much for all the invaluable info. I shall pass all of this to Steve.

Melody

Is this, what they used to call...... 'shock therapy'?

Yes, it is! It is rather drastic. Some people lose their memories after it. Can't work, drive a car sometimes.

Here is another paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8121702

RSD has been resistant to many therapies. Sometimes rapid treatment works, but many patients are not identified rapidly and that time frame window closes.

While ECT remains interesting, it is in the same vein drastic.

yes it is. A Nurse Ratchet Special. It is coming back into use now more often after many years of being discredited. I can just see all of us lining up waiting for the table. A few years back I was at a meeting and there was a doctor from Columbia University there that was showing us breathing techniques to reduce pain etc. and he mentioned that he also did ECT and was saying that it was very effective for some people. I never went back.


Could it be possible that the Tamiflu is helping because there might be some kind of virus either causing or exacerbating the PN?

I looked up the antiviral actions for Tamiflu and they are pretty limited. It only works on influenza A and B and even then, now there are accusations that its studies were slanted to look good.

Here is the wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuraminidase_inhibitor

It gets pretty complex reading the viral links to neuraminidase inhibitor. I got lost.

I do think there are viral links to some PNs however.
We know that the Herpes viruses that infect humans do cause nerve pain. (simplex and zoster).
When I had a severe flu virus a few years ago, I burned all over for a couple of days. This may be the virus working, or the inflammatory cytokines that are released.
After reading the vaccine links to cytokine storms, I am tending to think it is those inflammatory cytokine molecules that inflame the nerves. Inflammatory cytokines come from Omega-6 fatty acid consumption that is too high in ratio and unbalanced from the Omega-3s. So doing flax oil and fish oil is a good way to keep them lower. It was this fatty acid intervention that brought me to the net a decade ago in fact!

My EFA thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=6092

Mrs. D.

Y9U ARE THE BEST!!

:hug:

Thank you very much.

Melody

Based upon the neuropsychiatric effects you guys cite, it seems to stimulate Dopamine(hallucinations) and then possibly Gaba(memory loss). For an herbal alternative that is touted being more efficacious than Echinacea in exiting a cold or flu faster, Elderberry Extract. It is an Antiviral that also works on Type A and B influenza. In addition is a polyphenol antioxidant. Win-Win. I think everyone should give this route(3x a day for 1st week then 1x for maintenance) a month long trial to see if it exerts any symptom lowering effects. In addition the amino acid Lysine stops Herpes Virus from replicating and is an immunostimulant. It also has mild effects on Growth Hormone and Collagen. Right now I am taking Lysine and have tryed Elderberry to good effect with 3 colds.

I am glad the lysine is working for you.

Antioxidants are always good, for everyone. Some people at RSD use grapeseed extract to prevent spread of RSD (which is another severe form of neuropathic pain).

However, I think Vit D is the most powerful agent against viral infection.
http://www.orthomolecular.org/resour...s/v04n04.shtml

So you will want to get a Vit D level checked to see how much you would need.