Newb--excited to be here--nerve pain/Vit. D deficiency
 

Hi! I'm so excited to be here and learn from you. I also hope to encourage someone else. Here is the short intro and I will follow with a longer one for anyone interested:

I have had severe pain in my feet/ankles/calves for 5 months.
First diagnosed with bilateral Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome in November '09.
Had one Tarsal Tunnel Release surgery.
No improvement. In fact podiatrist is now saying I don't fit into any normal foot pain category--that it has to be something more.
Have since had MRIs of brain, spine and feet.
All is 'well'.
Only abnormalties are my EMG results and PAIN.
All bloodwork has been good so far except for Vitamin D.
It was a 10 last week!!!
That is a pretty severe deficiency--wouldn't you say?!

My question for you veterans is:
What are the chances that my severe pain that no dr. knows what to do with, be completely related to this deficiency? Have you seen people on here with D deficiency have relief for undiagnosed conditions?

LONGer story soon to come.
Must take care of my 18 month old...

Hi welcome to our family though I am sorry about your pain. I am not familiar with vitamin deficiencies but I am sure others will chime in. My condition though now has spread is inner ankle/foot/calf and at the start they thought I had TTS and wanted to do that surgery which I did not do. I have PN and RSD. WHat did your emg dx you with? Did your doc start you on D? Are you on any meds such as neurontin,lryica? Did you have any injury or how did this pain start? Or it was out of the blue? Sending thoughts

There is a chance. We had a fellow here who improved with Vit D.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...119#post293119

This link has a recommendation for new mothers, or pregnant women for D status, including that for the baby.
http://www.grassrootshealth.net/

I see you have a baby. Some things really depleted during
pregnancy are essential fatty acids. These go from the mother to the developing brain of the infant. So taking Flax oil and fish oil may help you. Magnesium levels need to be good for this, and B6, as they help with nerve repair.

Some women develop hypothyroidism after a pregnancy. One sign of this is carpal tunnel and foot neuropathy. (this is what I had.) A good evaluation of your thyroid status should be done to rule this possibility out.

These are just beginning things to consider. Keep in mind there are over 100 causes for neuropathies. Eventually you may find your answer here.

Thanks, Daniella for the welcome. :)

Ok, here's the longer version....

I am 35, weigh about 125#, 5 ft 6.
Back in the summer I was working out a lot.
The only 'new thing' going on at the time was we bought a treadmill. I was running a lot. I've worked out most of my life, but have had to take breaks with babies (I have 4 little ones). So in a way, I was still working back into a workout program (gave birth to last baby in Aug. '08, so it had been a year). I'm not sure if any of that has anything to do with the pain.
I also lost about 25# between April and August '09 on purpose.
But because of the steady but 'slow' loss, I was not concerned about that being an issue.
So it all started with heel pain. I thought I just wasn't stretching enough, or warming up good enough. My chiropractor thought it could be plantar fasciitis. She sent me to a special shoe store to have my gait checked and make sure I'm wearing the right running shoes for me. I was, but they recommended I use some arch supports in the shoe.
Chiropractor showed me how to tape up my arches and I began a targeted stretching and icing schedule.
Pain didn't leave. So she started using ultrasound therapy on the arches. 9 sessions, and no improvements. In fact, pain continued to spread and increase. Foot x-rays showed nothing significant.
Finally one day while shopping, they became so sore I could hardly take another step. I wondered how I would get to the cash register, much less make it out to the car. That was my last real shopping trip.
Chiropractor was concerned that it was more than plantar fasciitis and referred me to a podiatrist.
Podiatrist did standing foot x-rays. Found a hyper-pronated subtalar joint. Which with the pain I was having could signify Tarsal Tunnel. He taped me up differently that past dr. but no improvement. When I explained to him that I used to be a very active person and now am sequestered to the couch and in intense pain at night, he sent me for a nerve conductivity study.
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!
EMG results were abnormal and the findings were what they see repeadly in patients suspect for problems in the tarsal tunnel. I had low amplitude lateral plantar response, low medial plantar sensory response, low amplitude abductor digiti quinti response, and increased insertional activity.
There was no evidence for polyneuropathy, and the proximal conductions to the spinal cord level were normal.
BUT my pain was not. And everything I read online about Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome sounded exactly like me. I was in so much pain and desperate that after getting a 2nd opinion from another podiatrist as well as a sports medicine dr, decided the right thing to do was try surgery. Only on one foot to start.
He found I have an extra foot muscle and had a venus network of veins wrapped around my tibial nerve. It looked promising. But did not end up any better than before (that I can notice).
Podiatrist sent me to a Pain Management center. They wanted to put me on Lyrica. I'm not ready for that. For many reasons. I want to get to the 'root' of this problem. Pain Dr. also ordered a lumbar region MRI. Results were fine.
My family dr. started me on hydrocodone back in November to help me deal with the pain. I started getting ear-ringing a few months later. It continues. So dr. willingly ordered me a brain MRI to make sure all was ok there. Thank the Lord that was ok, too.
I have since seen a neurologist to see what he could tell me about what I"m feeling and other possible disorders it may be other than Tarsal Tunnel. He said I 'look good' according to his evaluation. That aside from the abnormal EMG and what I tell him about pain, I am fine. He ordered up a bunch of new bloodwork. One of those tests was the Vitamin D.
I am waiting on some of the other results to come in before discussing the D with the neurologist.
I am hopeful though that is is merely the D and I will be back to normal soon.
I have never had foot problems before now.
So this pretty much leaves me with the neuroloigist's thoughts on what else this may be after all of the blood results are in.
So, I use a walker if I go out anywhere, because I cannot stand or walk for long periods. I use it for the 'seat' on it. I also have had to hire helpers to come in to help with cleaning and things around the house. They help me with the kids when needed as well.
I'm so praying this is just Vit. D deficiency related!

Cherilyn PS the pain is tender, burning, just awful, on heels, backs of ankles, up into calves. My whole foot is pretty sore in general.

Thanks, Mrs. D.

I'm waiting on my B6 levels to come back.
My B12 was 587. Does that give any clue as to what my B6 will be?

I did not have my mag levels checked, but have started a magnesium with a calcium supplement. My calcium level was 9.3.

I have taken a prenatal fish oil supplement for several months now.

I will check out that vitamin D link. I also saw you posted some videos that I plan to look at.

Thank you so much!

Cher

Typically most magnesium supplements mixed with calcium
in tablet form are oxide. Please read your label, and see.

If so you will need other magnesium. Epsom salts soaks help,
locally, in lukewarm water, too. I have a magnesium thread with food sources and how to pick a supplement that works.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

You know, once inflammation starts, it perpetuates by itself.
The cytokines that cause inflammation sometimes don't turn off.

Another thing you can try is grapeseed extract. 300mg a day.
This squelches inflammation and promotes healing.

The feet are very slow to heal. Very.

Are your feet swollen, or discolored in any way?
Have you tried Lidoderm patches yet?

Mrs. D,
I'm taking Metagenics Cal Apatite with Magnesium.
It has 600mg Calcium to 300mg Magnesium and 378mg phosphorus for a serving. It also says MCHC 1500mg.

I will look at your supplements page, thank you so much for the link.

I have magnesium gel as well. I wonder if that would help to rub on my feet?

I will read up more on the things you advised, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

I also wanted to tell you that I got my thyroid checked and thankfully it's fine.

Cher

Mrs. D,
the link to someone that had improvement from Vit. D didn't work.
Would you please repost it?

Thank you.
Cher

Okay, I looked up your supplement and it does not have the dreaded useless Magnesium oxide in it. So it should work for you.
Many combo products do have this in it and people count on it working and it doesn't.

The link works for me if you click on it. (don't copy paste it).

Yes, if you have magnesium in a topical form (this is becoming more common today), I'd rub some on. I'd check your label for it and see how much is in there. If it is like 100mg/gram, you can cut back on the oral magnesium while you use the topical.

The usefulness of the magnesium is to open the blood vessels up that are constricted by the inflammatory compounds called cytokines. When the little blood vessels constrict, metabolic byproducts build up and nutrients and oxygen cannot get thru either. So the inflammation sort of cycles on itself and doesn't go away.

I found Lidoderm patches very useful (and I still use them) for nerve pain. These are RX only. 1/2 of a patch is enough for one foot. Placed properly they can block the nerve signals and give relief. I found that for my meralgia paresthetica I had for many years after my c-section, the nerve actually stopped firing after 14 consecutive days use, and I went into a remission!

For your foot problems I'd place the patch above the area where the surgery was done. (around the ankle). This may work for you. Interrupting the nerve on its way to the spine, is better than putting the patch over where you feel the pain.

Also I'd caution about heat. Heat will activate nerve pain and make it worse, IMO. My MP will activate again in steam rooms, or hot baths. So I have to be careful with heat..

My chiro who is very good, cautions against excessive heat --she is the one who steered me clear of it.

Some people like menthol containing rubs which can minimize burning. I like Biofreeze, but others here use their favorite type like IcyHot.
Biofreeze has Ilex in it which is a powerful antioxidant, and I was given it during some PT for a tendon injury. I use it on my feet now when I have alot of burning (which comes and goes).

If you don't have discoloration with your foot pain, or swelling, that is a good sign.

Pronation is a big cause of foot pain. My son had that too in one foot when he went to college . The sudden long distances he had to walk all day, from class to class really started an acute pain in his right foot. I took him to a good podiatrist who found nothing "wrong" in the ankle, and a set a orthotics fixed the problem. He still will get twinges jogging, so he gave that activity up, and now has an elliptical in his basement instead.
Ellipticals are far better and less stressful on the feet than
treadmills!

I have to say, after all your pregnancies your body may be just reacting to that stressor.
You know when a woman is pregnant, and for a time after, the body makes a hormone called relaxin. This relaxes the tendons and makes them more stretchy, and loose. This is mostly for the
pelvic tendon so that delivery of the head is possible for the baby. But relaxin relaxes everything, and stress injuries are possible in some women who may have excess of this hormone.
Relaxin has been linked to fibromyalgia (patients seem better during pregnancy). But relaxin increases 10 times in pregnant women, and may loosen joints in some more than others. Low back pain has been linked to it according to some medical sites.
I do know that most women change shoe sizes after pregnancy and that may be due to loosening of the bones in the foot and the swelling pregnancy may bring.

The foot is really complicated. Here is a good site showing anatomy! Using these pictures helps to place Lidoderms BTW.
Scroll down and the nerves in the foot are shown in yellow.
This site also gives alternate ways to lace your shoes if you have a high instep. (this was helpful to me too)
https://www.northcoastfootcare.com/f...t-anatomy.html
https://www.northcoastfootcare.com/footcare-info.html

Heelspurs
 

Have seen you over there - this is a great board. Hope someone here can help you.

All great advice. I have not heard of those patches. I'll have to ask my dr. about them. Thanks for the lead. I will try the links again.
That was nice of you to look up the mag/cal supplement. I get it from my chiropractor. She says it's made from 'real bone'. Sounds kind of gross, but is supposed to metabolize better.
I do have swelling, but it seems to be on my surgical foot. Physical therapist said it can take 6 months post-foot surgery sometimes for foot swelling to be gone.
I have not noticed discoloration.
I saw you started a new thread, Mrs. D and I want to respond there as well.
Great to be here.

thanks! You too!

Mrs. D.

I found the Mark thread. That is such great news. Sounds like he really noticed after a month.
It's been 5 EXCRUTIATING ones for me. I think I can hold out another month, I pray! And have some hope that things could improve.

When they do, you'll have to add me to the Mark testimonies of the miracle of 'D'.

Maybe I will come back here and record things.

For the record, I started 10,000 i.u. a day of D last Thursday when my levels were at 10.
I went to a tanning bed for 4 min. on Thursday, and 4 min. on Friday. Sunday I sat by an open window in the sun for 20 minutes (it's too cold here to go outdoors!).
I went 6 minutes, today, Monday.

I still have the Tarsal Tunnel-like symptoms and Plantar Fasciitis. I have severe burning in the backs of my ankles that go up to my calves by day end. I feel some burning pain all the way up to my buttocks at times. I don't seem to have it elsewhere in my body. Sometimes my wrists feel a bit funny, but I do push-ups nearly daily and that may be the culprit.

I do not shop or do anything that requires lots of walking. I use a walker when I go to the drs, etc. That way I have a seat to sit on if I need to rest, because the pain becomes intense if I have to stand or walk for even short periods.

Most of my day is spent sitting, though I have 4 small children to care for and do what I have to do.

I am still taking hydrocodone for the pain. I took 6--750 mg pills today. It takes the edge off, but does not make it disappear completely.

I'll try and keep a log here as I can for anyone in the future that it may help.

Thanks.

I also have a suggestion: This is just for pain.

I have used high gauss magnets for many years (these allowed me to work in spite of my pain) and they can really help in some patients.

Brian here, also had success with them.

Here are some threads:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...hlight=magnets

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ight=neodymium

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ight=neodymium

Neodymium magnets are very strong. Placed over the affected nerve (and you have evidence of specific entrapment), with the South pole down, can block alot or all of the pain. They don't really CHANGE things but over time may train the nerve to stop firing (like the lidoderms do). Since you go to a chiropractor, he/she may also offer these..so ask. They will be expensive that way, however.
I find that the inexpensive ones I get for a buck or two each work very well. One just has to know where to find them on the net. (even Ebay has some). My podiatrist also uses them, and he was interested to see me with my broken toe wearing one! We had a little laugh over that. (he said "looks like you don't even NEED me"...)

If you are interested you can contact me here. When your PM option activates, soon, we can discuss them that way.;)

Some people do not believe they work. So I don't offer them until other things fail, like you are experiencing.

Mrs. D...
are you saying I can get lipoderm patches online?
I do a lot of online shopping...
you get yours at ebay?
I may PM you about the magnets sometime.
I did have entrapments show up, but I also wonder if it works for plantar fasciitis pain? I don't want to invest in too much in case this D works. But I am storing up all of this information in case I do decide to try.
I finally talked with my family dr. today about my D levels. He said to take 50,000 iu a week and to take 1.5-2 grams of calcium with it. Now I don't know if he meant per day or per week. He said the calcium helps the D absorb. I thought it was the other way around.
My cal. levels were 'normal' on the lab. My worry is that now that the D is being upped--that I'll absorb too much calcium.
Any thoughts on that?
Today was my 7th day of taking 10.000 iu a day. Not sure if it was my imagination or not. But I seemed to have less 'creepy crawlies" upon waking. However, the rest of the pain had the normal progression it has the past several months as the day went on.
Of course, I know any relief may take 1-3 months. But I am still going to hold out hope and pray it happens sooner for me. :wink:

The lidoderms are RX only and you need an RX for them.

The magnets you can get easily online, it you know what you are looking for. Magnets do not need an RX.

Try the PM function and send me your email, and I will send you some basic info I have saved.

Hey mrsD--you have me intrigued with your tableau. So far I see a polar bear and a geode, but I'm still working on the rest. My laptop got bombarded with viruses so I'm having to view this on one of those tiny netbooks.

Given the number of spheres, you know what I think would be perfect in it? A lawn ball..but who knows, maybe there's one in there I haven't spotted yet.

The little animal in left front, is supposed to be a cat, and it is carved out of Petoskey Stone. (I bought it on Ebay--it was sort of a "steal" since that day few were bidding, so I got it for a good price.)

Five of the spheres were made by me.

My son took some nicer pics of them and has them on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thekevi...7604118053496/



And this is another set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thekevi...7614654881111/
The five are shown more closeup in detail in his pictures.
You can see them better from his pictures.

Some of the other things on the shelf are things I have collected over the years. The large quartz and purple fluorite in the center are from my youth..both are over 40yrs old, in my posession.

The sculpture footprint in the upper left is a wolf print I made from our vacation home/island.

The black thing in the background is a carved obsidian crows skull, that is in one of my son's pics on Flickr. I bought that on Ebay from a sculptor in Utah who does all sorts of odd things ..I think it is laser cut by a computer, from a computer model made from a real skull. It is very interesting, and was pretty expensive. In fact it is the most expensive thing on that shelf.

My crystal spheres --I've been doing them for about 2 yrs now-- I buy the little crystals and tumbled semiprecious stones on Ebay from some suppliers who are on there.

The little dark crystals on the little ball on the left front, are real smokey quartz from Australia. They were a bit pricey too! ;)

This shelf is right above my monitor, and I look at it all day long, when thinking and typing responses here. ;)
The shelf grew out of a few inexpensive "balls" that I had collected over the years...so I expanded it to include all sorts of things now. (some of the things on that shelf are pyrite, malachite, fluorite, copper, quartz, amethyst.)

B12
 

Mrs. D--
I read a lot of your vitamin b12 thread...

[EDITED to say--My levels are 587, not 387. Whoops.] My levels were 387...but according to what I'm reading now, that could possibly be low for me.

Esp. when one considers my symptoms, which include tinnitis.

Do most people find a dr. that is really up on their vitamins, or come to places like this to for it?

It is so frustrating for me that some of my drs see vitamins as not so important and yet I have all of this unexplained suffering and pain that really can't be explained otherwise...

You appear to have been at this site for a very long time. Have you noticed an 'ideal B12 level' for helping symptoms disappear?

I learn my B6 levels tomorrow...

Thanks.

Cher

Before this site, I was at another, one that crashed and never recovered. I was at that site since 1998! Many from that site are posting here today, at our new home.

Doctors are not trained in nutrition. In fact they are very poorly trained in pharmacology too. Most patients don't know that and think doctors know alot about drugs, and it is sad to say, but most medical training is "observe, label, memorize". Most doctors get their drug information from sales people. They do not as a rule investigate anything on their own. There are exceptions, but the majority is sadly lacking.

In your case, cher, you have had 4 children in a short span of time. That puts a huge nutritional burden on you, much of it is invisible. It is only relatively recently that we have learned, for example, how damaging transfats really are. With babies, there are studies to show smaller head size of babies born to women who ate alot of transfats (which were in everything--donuts, fast food, margarine, potato chips, cookies, everything--Crisco). Transfats were linked to ADHD in children, who were also low in Omega-3 fat intake.
Did any OB tell women to not eat transfats? Nope. It took over a decade of people like me and consumer health researchers to get our FDA to stop transfat consumption. The original goal was to only have accurate labels so consumers could avoid these toxic fats, but the food industry stepped up and for the most removed them. 2006 was the target year for labeling. Now we see cities like NY banning them outright and Netherlands, a whole country, banning them. But with the introduction of Crisco in the late 30's.... 2 generations of US citizens consumed dangerous transfats, and no doctor spoke up... or even KNEW. How many people ask a bakery what kind of fat they use?
I can tell you, not many. When I asked that question, back in the early 2000's, I got blank looks. The workers didn't even know what they used! Today, you can go to some restaurants and they will have a little sign on the table, saying, we do NOT use transfats. The small town we live near in the summer with 500 residents year round, had this on one of the restaurant tables, 2 yrs ago! I was stunned.
Do you read the labels of cookies you buy? Oreo was in deep trouble with California when they refused to remove transfats from its cookies. That was in all the papers. I believe, they have come around. However, the huge snack company Lays...took transfats OUT of their products long before the labeling deadline (2006). They were extremely cooperative and health conscious for their customers!

The serum B12 test does NOT tell where you are going. So if you are borderline with it, you do not know if it has been coming DOWN for you, been there for a while (unless you have frequent testing) or going up. Some people have neuro symptoms at levels doctors call "normal"... it takes a long time at very low levels to get the anemia signs that they are taught in school herald low B12. In fact today, there is controversy that the folate we consume in USA fortified foods, is actually masking low B12 levels and causing MORE neuro symptoms.

Some people do well at 500 range of B12, and others may find they feel better at 800-1000 or even higher. People vary in genetics and their genetics determine how efficient the whole metabolism is. Some may need help. Some need more B vits than others. The classic case is in the area of infant seizures.
Some babies are born with a defect in metabolizing B6...normal levels for them don't work. They have to be given massive doses or else they have endless dangerous seizures. This is called vitamin DEPENDENCY.. and while it is not common, it does point to issues that may exist for others, in milder forms.
Dr. Bruce Ames has written and studied this his whole career, and believes people vary in how the metabolize things using vitamins. He has a website where he explains this.
http://www.bruceames.org/
I think he is a brilliant man, and he invented the Ames test, which is what the FDA uses still to see if a chemical has the potential to cause cancer (DNA damage).

My goal on the net is to educate people so that they can then take care of themselves and not fall into some painful chronic syndrome. Our modern medicine is not geared for that point of view. Modern doctors only work at end points. One exception is Dr. Anderew Weil, who went to Harvard and is still trying to get the curriculum in medical school to change and be more in tune with our bodies and their needs.

In the case with B12, there is no upper limit of toxicity... which is a good thing, because then you can deal with it safely.
The Vit D information however, is still changing, and has changed radically in the last 5 years. I would expect doctors to be very poor at treating Vit D, and they are. They will test you but then treat the low levels with outdated and poor D2. So educating the public, is important with this too, since D3 is OTC, like the B12 is.

edit to add--- You might find Dr. Blaylock MD interesting. A neurologist who decades ago used nutrition to help neuro damage in his patients!
Now he is an alternative spokesperson, and just recently was very revealing about the H1N1 flu shots. He is now retired and active as an alternative voice for healing.
http://www.blaylockreport.com/

Wow Mrs. D. I love that Petoskey Stone.

It's a great specimen.

Of course, being a native Michigander, I'm prejudiced!!!!

Thanks for sharing.

Hey I am from MI too.
Anyhow I am not as educated as others here but have you looked on the RSD board or researched that. Some of the symptoms you have make me think of that. Maybe because of how I developed RSD and also how they thought I had tts but I did not.The treatment of rsd can be very different too like no cold for sure or those icy hot creams. As for docs who deal with nutrition. I saw a holistic doc who did and supplements. I would not see this doc again because I felt he was more about getting money and a salesman but another may be more about education.
Good luck and feel better

Thank you,. Daniella. I'll have to take a look over there...

I hear you on some drs. and feeling like it's about the $ for supplements. That's what I'm trying NOT to go for...

In case Mrs. D reads this, I found out my B6 levels were 'high' at 40.1. I'm wondering if that is affecting how I 'feel' at all...

Cher

Very pretty crystals, mrsD! I just collect souvenier shotglasses, which suddenly seems rather soulless by comparison.

Mrs. D, I found this part very interesting that you wrote:


My folates are 'high' according to the lab. They are 57.6 My lab references normal ranges as going up to 24.

So are you saying that it's possible that my high folates are making my B12s look higher than they are, and that I may actually potentially be deficient in B12, which could be 'helping' to bring on these symptoms?

I thank God for people like you, that are trying to help us out. Thank you. I am a stranger, and yet you are ready and willing to help. Much appreciated.

Oh, and that was interesting info about transfats and head size. Though I craved doughnuts in pregnancy, I did not get them often. BUT my babies all have 'good size' heads--to put it politely. =)

If you are taking vitamins, then lab ranges are not going to say much unless they show very low.

Typically in people with low B12, folate will be elevated if NO vitamins are being used. Elevated folate is called the folate trap, when methyl groups cannot be used on B12 because it is lacking, the folate goes up and traps the methyls. (a complex biochemical situation).
This is one explanation...which is hard to follow:
http://www.dach-liga-homocystein.org...eure/falle.htm

Many of our foods are now fortified with folate, so you don't have to be taking vitamins to show a high reading for it. Folate is not typically low in people now in US because of the food fortification.

Serum levels of vitamins are not really good indicators for anything unless very low. Higher levels don't mean much. The nutritional/enviromental doctors use Spectracell tests which measure things in the red blood cells. Costs more, and insurance usually doesn't cover it. It is the same with magnesium. Only really low levels mean much with it also.

What you should do is get a MMA test, to see if you have adequate B12. This test measures a specific chemical that only B12 can lower. If B12 is not working (say you are using cyano form) the MMA will be elevated. If MMA is normal than then your B12 is adequate at least for that task. Some doctors think MMA is more sensitive and some facilities are switching to it and bypassing serum B12 entirely.

B12 supplements are not harmful.. so it is not critical anyway, if you take extra. That's what I would do.

Interesting, well, I was wondering if my folates are high because I take a prenatal vitamin, and some other things I take I think have folic acid.
They are the same thing, right?

YOu mentioned methyls. I have MSM. Have not been taking it regularly, but this afternoon I took a dose. Do you think it could be helpful? Safe either way? I'm wondering about dosage... it says to take 2- 4 tablets daily...

TIA.

ps Daniella, I looked at what RSD is. It doesn't sound like something I have. But I could be wrong...

Thanks for mentioning, though...:)

MSM is not harmful...

the methyls we are discussing in regards to methylation of folate and B12 use specific enzymes to move the methyl group around... these are DNA controlled and called MTHFR enzymes.

The best source of methyl groups is glycine or trimethylglycine.
These are recommended to improve homocysteine levels, which go up when folate and B12 fail. Betaine is the common name, also the trimethylglycine is similar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylglycine

Foods high in glycine are root veggies, like beets. (Betaine comes from beets, and is named after them).

I never found MSM useful for myself... but it does lend itself to stronger nails and nicer hair, if you want that effect. ;)

Any yes, your prenatals would be 1mg of folic acid each.

hmmm...I could use some nail help, so since I have them in my cupboard and they're not harmful--why not...

Not a fan of beets AT all.
I'll have to look into these other terms you use.

I hope to get in touch with my neurologist tomorrow and get his thoughts on things as well.

Thank you again.

Most of the methylation chemistry is understood more by metabolic doctors, or hematologists. I can't say how much of it your neurologist understands.

This link is made for doctors, you can print it out and
take it in:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0301/p979.html

Most doctors still are trained that low B12 leads to anemia.
With the folate fortification we have here in US, that would be masked by the folate. Masking B12 deficiency leads to neuro damage, and I do think most doctors understand THAT. However it is not a good thing that our lab ranges still report low values as "normal".

So, if my ferritin levels are low (12)--which could mean I'm anemic,
do you think that means my B12 is low? Even if it shows up at 587?
I did take a 2500mcg B12 sublingual tablet today to start. I need to look up what I should be taking...I think what I learned here and online is that B12 can't really be maxed out...
Editing to say, I saw your B12 link and that you said you tink 5000 mcg a day is good until 1000 level is reached of B12.
I still am curious as to your thoughts on the ferritin link to this above...

Thanks.
Cher

Have you been to a reumatologist(spelling is wrong)? Or maybe an endocronolgist.

The ferritin measures stored iron. This could be a result of pregnancy. Also ferritin may be low when protein gets low, since it is made of amino acids. There are people who have genetic errors in making the peptide that carries the iron, but I don't believe that is common. Since you were actively dieting to lose weight, you may not have consumed enough protein to rebuild what you gave to your babies.

There is iron in your prenatals typically.
Here is a more complete description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritin

People with reduced acid in their stomachs, either due to aging, or taking acid lowering drugs for long periods of time, do not absorb iron well. They can develop iron deficiency anemia easily.

So do you have any idea if I could benefit from more iron?
I understand what you're saying about pregnancy, but my 'baby' is nearly 19 months old now. We also are now finished nursing as of a few weeks.
Wouldn't you think my levels had time to rebuild?

Thanks.

I always recommend people should get tested for iron.

Your doctor should supervise you with supplements. Too much is as bad as not enough.

I think your question should be asked at the doctor's on this issue.

If you eat iron rich foods, and a proper amount of protein and don't have low stomach acid, you will rebuild your stores.

Question: getting tested for iron... is that the ferritin level? or a different test?

Thanks.

Ferritin is extra... because it is a storage form only.

Typical CBC including hemoglobin, hematocrit are typically done.
An elevated MCV in the CBC may point to a developing B12 deficiency. But many doctors ignore it in otherwise healthy patients.

This link explains the tests:

http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders...ns/anemia.html

Mrs. D,

First of all, do you mind me just venting for a second that tonight the 'pain' is really getting to me and the ear-ringing and I'm really tired of it? I just want to cry.
At the same time I am blessed in so many ways and thank God for people like you that are out there reaching out to people like me. Thank you.

Ok, I looked at your link. From what I can gather, I'm thinking I may truly be anemic.
Here's the deal...
2 doctors ordered bloodwork for me. Dr. #1 did the whole CBC.
Dr. #2 ordered the ferritin and never saw the CBC results. I had told them they were 'fine'--because my family dr. had told me so.
Well, I have the paperwork on all the bloodwork.
So here it is...
My WBC was 3.8 (LOW) Normal=3.9-11
RBC was 3.89 (LOW) Normal=3.90-5.10
Ferritin 13--normal is 12-156

Again, another case of 'just missed normal', but can these lower levels not indicate iron deficiency? My B12s appear good and my B6s are too high.
The lady at the health food store that is a nurse thought I could safely take an iron supplement. Well, dh picked it up and it has B6 in it. I'm not supposed to injest anymore B6, so I can't start the extra iron yet.
I see a 'new dr'. for a fresh perspective on all of my bloodwork results on St. Patty's day.
I pray he can shed some light on things, too!

I get SO tired at the kids bed time, that I feel I have no choice but to lay down for an hour nap in the evening even before bed! It has scared me how 'suddenly tired' I'll feel since getting all of these symptoms. But I"m Vit. D deficient and if I'm low on iron--um, not a great mix for high energy, right?

Thanks, Mrs. D. Thanks for reading. And for all of the information you have given.

Cher

You are having ear ringing?

This can be due to poor circulation or a magnesium deficiency.
Have you tried soaking your feet in epsom salts? This will allow some magnesium into the small blood vessels, and also will be relaxing.

Another thing that helps ear ringing is using some form of antioxidant.
Antioxidants such as grapeseed extract and citrus bioflavinoids can help with vascular inflammation too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoflavonoid

Are you taking alot of aspirin? This will also cause ear ringing (tinnitus). NSAIDs for the foot pain?
http://www.tchain.com/otoneurology/d...g/tinnitus.htm

If you do decide to take some iron, there are forms that are easier to tolerate. SlowFe is one of those. And iron is best absorbed with acid...like orange juice.

The low white count is troubling too. But sometimes people have a virus, and a low count can be due to that.

Don't forget.... magnets may help your pain in the feet and allow you to use less oral medication.

If you want that information, search "magnets" on this forum, and PM me.