pcs, vertigo
 

Hi, I am new to this forum. i was hit ont the top of the head by a falling 32 foot ladder on 5-21-09. i have had a headache since. i have had so many symptoms that have gone along with that. now vertigo, migrane, ringing in ears, trouble focusing, short of breath, numbness in fingers and hands. shakey legs. to name a few. i have seen a neuro and he said less is more and time will heal. had mri, mra mrv, eeg all inconclusive and normal. i have been amitrytlene, topamax, cymbalta, nuerotin, lyrica, tizanapine. some seem to help a little. most had such bad side effects they just made things worse. i have been diagnosed with vertigo. and i am seeing an eye doctor today. and having a vng next friday to determine what is causing the vertigo. i have been out of work for 3 weeks now. but worked throught the first 8 1/2 months. now work comp wont pay for anything and i was getting frustrated. I had the independent medical exam with there doctor and he told me i was depressed and that if i took care of the depression tha teverything would disappear. what a joke. yesterday i found the BRAIN INJURY ASSOCIATION OF MINNESOTA. So i called them and they sent me in the rght direction to pcs doctors. what a relief. things didnt start getting worse until 7-8 months after the fact. is that normal? or possible? any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks

Have you read any information about upper cervical adjustments?
Also called atlas/axis, and c1/c2 adjustments.
This is done by chiropractors trained in the technique.
Most MD's don't even consider it.

I'll give you a link to check out- explore the whole site, it has lots of info -
http://www.upcspine.com/self.htm

yes, i seen a neurochiropractor for 3 months 3 times a week. my back felt better but not much else changed. i always left relaxed though

Jo*mar has given you a great start. NUCCA.org is also a good place to check out upper cervical spine chiropractors.

There is no 'normal' with PCS. Especially when it is complicated by an untreated upper cervical injury. Sleep position can aggravate an upper cervical injury so you might want to consider sleep habits.

I have to be very careful that I sleep with my cervical alignment in proper position. I do this with a pillow rolled up to support my head from flopping to the side. I need to sleep on my back. If I sleep on my side, I have restless sleep and stressful dreams.

I spend a lot of time sleeping in a recliner rather than a bed.

It sounds like you finally are getting headed in the right direction. Work Comp can be a real struggle with PCS. You are not alone.

My best to you.

Your chiroppractor does not sound like an upper cervical chiropractor.

Did your neurochiropractor spend any specific time with your upper neck? Upper cervical chiropractors will focus on the upper neck with very minor efforts on the rest of the spine. The theory is that if the upper neck is functioning properly, the rest of the spine will be able to settle into correct position. The treatments are not the head twisting, neck bending and neck popping type.

Upper cervical chiropractors will take a very specialized set of x-rays of the neck, especially where it contacts the skull. This is a very difficult area to treat correctly. Even spine/neurosurgeons often miss injuries to this area. X-rays and CT scans do not image the injuries very well.

A chiropractor treating you three times a week for three months sounds more like he was interested in generating income. Common in Work Comp cases. I messed up my back with my concussion and did not have anywhere near that many adjustments.

It still might be worth checking out
www.nucca.org or http://www.upcspine.com/self.htm

Hello and welcome to NT!

I am sorry for your injury and for the way that you are being treated by the medical system. Like most of us with TBIs, you've already learned that you will have to be a strong self-advocate if you are going to get the care you need and deserve.

Congratulations on having the initiative and smarts to get in touch with the Brain Injury Association in your state. Other excellent sources for information include www.tbiguide.com and our own TBI forum here on NT http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum92.html If that's too much reading, there are a number of excellent Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) videos on You Tube. (Who knew it wasn’t just idiots surfing on cars?)

Cheers

Thank you to everyone for the info. there is so much of it here. it is great to hear from other people going through the same thing. Thank you!!

Many thanks to Jo*Mar and to Mark, for the uppercervical chiro website!
*There* I was fortunate to find such a *local* practitioner and have appointed to see her next week. Yay! I'd previously checked NUCCA's site. There were no NUCCA practitioners anywhere nearby. So, much appreciation again to ya'all! Theta Z.

you have a complicated problem. the best evaluation at this point would include a thorough neurological examination and ENG testing to evaluate the vertigo. A dix-hallpike maneuver to check for delayed onset benign positional vertigo would help. vertigo could accompany migraine, cervical spine injuries, or vestibular injuries, or all three in any combination. therefore, you need a thorough cervical spine assessment. you mention MRI but you did not say of which body region. Your symptoms suggest a need for a cervical MRI as well as x-ray assessment. Not all neurologists are well versed in cervical spine problems. you may also need orthopedic evaluation or chiro. though i would not recommend any manipulation until any cervical instability is excluded. These are starting points for your problem. if your neurologist does not support you in your workers comp claim, you should find another since negative testing does not rule out an on-going potenmtially disabling problem.
leepomd

The docs suspect inner ear issues with me as well. I had a vng last week and the pressure (blowing air) in my ears at the end made my vertigo/dizzy symptoms worse than before, during the test and up til now. They think I may have a perilymph fistula (small tear in the innner ear where fluid is leaking), it can happen when you get whacked on the head, but is said to be rare. If you search online you can find info and a symptom list. I don't have a definitive diagnosis at this point, it is suspected and I have to go see another doctor, have some more diagnostics. If it turns out to be the case, the good news is that it is repairable. I previously did 2 months of vestibular rehab, it didn't help me. If I could get rid of the vertigo, nausea stuff I would be one happy camper, still missing part of my brain (at least it feels like it) but at least more mobile and less hampered. If one symptom goes away at a time at least it's progress. I am also seeing an upper cervical chiropracter next week, hope it will help things, my neck still bothers me after 7 months. Good luck!

kfrazier1979,

An Upper Cervical Care Chiropractor could be helpful for you but if you have other physiological issues that you haven't dealt with, the adjustment won't hold and you'll wind up spending a lot of money on that. For example, if your cerebellum, which is responsible for posture, is damaged and you don't rehab it, your adjustment won't hold because the muscles in your neck won't hold it. Or, if your thyroid is low, your muscle cells in your neck won't be getting the proper hormone support to stay in place after and adjustment. So, before you go jumping into that, make sure you have dealt with other issues first, i.e. hormones, cerebellur function, balance, etc...

I'm surprised that you haven't had success with your chiropractic neurologist. They are usually extremely good at treating balance/dizzy disorders resulting from head injuries. As a matter of fact, it is one of their specialties. If you haven't seen any improvement though, I would fire him and go a different direction.

One thing to keep in mind about Chiropractors is that only about 10% of them are any good. The rest are usually people who couldn't get into either medical school or physical therapy school, or some other type of professional school. The requirements to get into chiropractor school are not that stringent either, and I believe you don't even need a college degree to get into most. So, the caliber of student going to these schools is not that high. As a matter of fact, LIFE Chiropractic college, which is one of the premier colleges in the nation, was offering guys on my rugby team in college full scholarships regardless of their GPA. So, that should be an indication of what kind of students they are letting in. However, once in a blue moon you will find a good one and usually this person will be a god send for you.

Good Luck!

BeccaP,
Thanks for your helpful posting here re: the inner ear testing and prior vestibular rehab. I asked my dr. recently about vestibular disorder. Answer: Told me to do neck stretching and neck rolling exercises. (??)

I still have incidents of what I can only describe as vertigo and it is very disturbing. What I experience isn't 'the room is spinning', etc. It's a very definite sensation of [I]motion, swirling, movement within[I] my head.

It's as if my inner-gyroscope has suddenly been spun round.
This sounds funny, perhaps --- sometimes the sensation inside my head feels as if I were 'a bobble-head'! Especially when in a moving vehicle.
This can lead to again feeling nauseous.

Has anyone else here experienced anything similar? It's very difficult to get across to the docs.

Sincerely, Theta Z.

I'm learning that sometimes you just have to find the right audience when you describe your symptoms.

Last week we had a routine eye doc appointment, after a nightmare neuro opthamologist visit a few months ago. After a very thorough exam, comparison with previous exams, and lots and lots of questions, our eye doc described how my daughter's optic nerves are miscommunicating with eye muscles and gave us some eye exercises to try at home. He said her vision is similar to the feeling when you try to watch a train go by...the jumping sort of sensation.

He would say, "does it feel like X?" "Ok, then does it feel like Y?" And so on. It doesn't hurt that he has been our family eye doctor for 20 years, goes to our church, and has a vested interest in seeing her get better. He has seen lots of head injuries. I just didn't think he would be "specialist" enough back in the beginning.

Her vision is still 20/20. He said her optic nerves took a shock and now are re-learning to communicate with her muscles. He said it would heal on its own eventually but the exercises will help for a speedier and more complete recovery.

He then went on to explain how the calcium crystals in the inner ear can get dislodged and cause vertigo. I mean no offense, but I read about "dislodged crystals" on this forum months ago and completley dismissed it. Being the medical professional that I am NOT I wrote it off as some weird, imaginary, mid-evil sounding idea.

I was WRONG! This is a real, treatable condition. We have an appointment with an ENT to check into BPPV or other vestibular issues on Friday. BPPV can lead to nausea, lightheadedness, lack of concentration, panic attacks, nystagmus, migraines, etc. In other words, all of the lingering symptoms my daughter is currently experiencing.

Lesson learned: just because she never used the word "dizzy" doesn't mean she might not have a vetibular issue. And just because I never knew I had rocks in my head doesn't mean I don't :)

I know that feeling!
 

WOW! :D I'm new here, and I JUST ran across your post! What you are describing sounds EXACTLY like what I'm experiencing when I get my "vertigo spells". I didn't think ANYONE would be able to understand what I'm saying!

My brain feels like it's moving in a "vertical" clockwise circle in my skull. After a moment my eyes seem to want to follow the motion (not sure if they are actually moving or not). I then become extremely nauseous (within seconds). This has only happened when I'm sitting down - if I'm standing it usually seems more like an aura, like a vague similar feeling. I crawl to the floor usually with my eyes closed and I lay on my back with my knees up until it passes (usually 2-3 minutes, or thereabouts. I've only gotten really close to getting sick one time more recently (but I had a double ear infection a month ago, so that may have contributed to the extra nausea).

I have a history of migraines, and a history of minor head traumas (2 or 3 of which might have been worse than was recognized at the time they occurred - the last about 10 years ago. I've been having my "vertigo" spells (which my ENT told me last week might be seizures) for the last 18 mos. or so.

I still have to read the rest of this thread. :o I just got really excited that I found someone who sounded like they knew what I was feeling! LOL :hug:

~ Michelle

I experience that too. I just describe it as feeling "dizzy".

Hi, Michelle -
I have been offline for some many months now.
I've been to neuro-ophthalmologist recently; no answers to the what I now can perhaps only describe as episodic rotational vertigo. Hope that you get some good answers. Theta

Thanks for the reply! I didn't think I'd hear from you after I noticed the date of your post. I hope you can eventually find some answers, too.

I promised my anxiety doc that I wouldn't do much research until after my neurologist's appointment next week as I was driving myself and my family crazy, but I didn't want to go too long without checking in. It was great to find your post.

Hope you find answers soon, too!

LOL -- Yep, that's what I'm calling it for now, too. At least since the ENT I saw said it wasn't true "vertigo"! We'll see what my neuro calls it, I guess. ;)