Toxic Level Vitamin D Question
 

No it is not D3.... The Pliva gelcap is 50,000 IU of ergocalciferol. D2

There is no RX D3 at this time. (alone).

Doctors test you but still are clueless about treatment.

The general rule of thumb is 1000IU D3 for each 10ng/ml needed.

So for 50ng/ ml at the bottom of the normal range, you need 5000IU daily.

I have seen some reports that D2 is about equal to 1/2 of a D3 dose. But I can't say that is cast in stone.

There are many ways to give the Pliva D2... it is your doctor's decision as to how to use it. So you have to ask him. But for the short time you are to take it, it doesn't seem odd to me. I've seen higher. What IS important, is to get retested, and to continue with something after this initial dose. The problem does not go away with one good reading from a test.

A good exposure to sunlight is estimated to give 10,000 IUs that day.

Hi Carly,

I too had very low serum levels of vitamin D (25 hydroxy). My Integrative physician recommended a product by Biotics Research called Bio D Mulsion Forte which delivers 2000 IU's per drop. He recommended 50,000 IU's 3 times a week for 3 months, then retest. My initial serum level was around 12.... three months later it was 62! He then recommended 4000 IU's per day as a maintenance dose and retest in 3 months. That test came back 57! That was 2 years ago and I am still taking 2000 to 4000 IU's per day (all year long) and maintaining a serum level of 57-65. My husband had very similar results.

My sister was also severely deficient in vitamin D. Her physician prescribed just as yours did......Pliva, one cap 2 times a week for one month then retest. Her initial serum level was around 8... her retest was around 12. She continued on this rx for 9 months being periodically retested... her serum D levels never went above 25. However, her bone density worsened and she developed digestive problems. She decided to forgo the Pliva and take the Biotics Research as I did. Three months taking that her serum D level rose to 35! She continued on this regimen for several more months and her level rose to 52! She is on a maintenance dose of 4000 IU's a day and her serum levels range between 45-52.

Biotics Research products are not prescription meds and can be purchased online, just do a google search. I know of many people who have had excellent results with using this product. As a matter of fact, we recommend it to patients in our dental practice!

Here is some information on Bio D Mulsion Forte:
https://www.bioticsresearch.com/node/1570

Another good source for information on vitamin D is from the vitamin D council.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

Hope this is helpful to you!

Bryanna

I agree that every day is best. It simulates when we eat or get our vitamins naturally.

These huge bolus doses... I think get stored, rather than used.
The body cannot handle bolus doses of nutrients well. Water soluble ones get excreted quickly. Fat soluble ones get stored.

What you want is some in the blood all the time, to do the jobs they are intended for.

Hi Carly,

Here is an excerpt from an article by the vitamin d council. The question posted on their website was.... Am I vitamin D deficient...

<<There is no way to know for certain until you get a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test, also called a 25(OH)D. Levels should be above 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L) year-round, in both children and adults. Thanks to Bruce Hollis, Robert Heaney, Neil Binkley, and others, we now know the minimal acceptable level. It is 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L). In a recent study, Heaney, et al expanded on Bruce Hollis's seminal work by analyzing five studies in which both the parent compound (cholecalciferol) and 25(OH)D levels were measured............. IMPORTANT........ They found that the body does not reliably begin storing cholecalciferol in fat and muscle tissue until 25(OH)D levels get ABOVE 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L). The average person starts to store cholecalciferol at 40 ng/ml (100 nmol/L), but at 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L) virtually everyone begins to store it for future use. That is, at LEVELS BELOW 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L), the BODY USES UP THE VITAMIN D AS FAST AS YOU CAN MAKE IT, OR TAKE IT, INDICATING CHRONIC SUBSTRATE STARVATION, NOT A GOOD THING. 25(OH)D levels should be between 50–80 ng/ml (125–200 nmol/L), YEAR ROUND.

So that is the reason why knowledgable doctors instruct their vitamin D deficient patients to start out with large doses of D(3) as a means of plumping up the supply until it reaches a healthy serum level. Then a daily maintenance dose is recommended according to follow up blood test results for that particular individual. If you were to take small doses at the onset or consume a product that was not easily metabolized, you would find that your serum levels would remain in the deficient range which only defeats the purpose of supplementing in the first place.

I hope this information is helpful!

Bryanna

Hi Mrs. D,

I think supplementating with anything should be done wisely and cautiously. With vitamin D deficiencies, the huge doses only start to get stored once a certain serum level has been achieved according to the experts who are quoted by the vitamin d council (in the reply I sent to Carly). Then as you said, daily maintenance doses are necessary to help keep the levels where they need to be.

Bryanna

Here is a video from Australia.

This is how they are coping with this issue:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2514231.htm

People with low levels there are given up to 5000IU D3 daily for one to 3 months, retested, and maintained at 1000IU D3 daily once the target is reached by testing the blood.
This regimen seems to be working for them.

On the horizon now, are some D3 creams. It think we will see this in the near future. I may bypass the failures that seem to happen with oral administration for some.

Another Q- re: VitD
 

Hi Mrs D., Thanks for this info. My test shows low D25 HYDXY at 29- reading the VitD Council report made me question the huge dose of D2 my kidney doc ordered. Now the intention is more clear. I still question if D2 is safe/effective when there are likely issues re: whether I can properly metabolize this form. (I have secondary hyperparathyroidism related to kidney disease. Also lover disease). The last time I tried to take the 25,000 IU dose my gut reacted with nausea and right flank pain,(achy liver). Became very cautious since then, simply do not trust the docs. Do you have any advice to add here specific to my case?
Three doctors all offer differing opinions for TX. Crazy making to say the least. Thanks TT

When things get this dicey... well... all that is left is sun exposure. Get out there and get the proper exposure and perhaps you won't need the supplements.

Other choices are daily lower dose and over time you may get better. At 29 ng/ you'd need about 4,000IU D3 daily to get to 50-60. Optimum sun exposure daily would give 10,000 IU daily.
The sun is free.

Ok here goes my Feb 2010 results. Been taking D3 4000 iu's for past 6 months. 2000 prior 3 yrs. I'll recheck during summer sun season.

25-OH total 44 ng/ml
25-OH, D3 44ng/ml
25-OH, D2 <4 ng/ml
1,25 (OH)2, total 56 pg/ml
D3, 1,25 (OH)2 56 --/ml
D2, 1,25 (OH)2 <8 --/ml

from results paper:
25-OHD3 indicates BOTH endogenous and supplimentation.
25-OHD2 is an indicator of exogenous sources such as diet or supplimentation.
Values for subcomponents D2 (derived from plant or fungal sources) and D3 (derived from human or animal sources) are provided for imformational purposes only.

Asked the hema/oncologist to check 2&3. He wasnt familiar with anything other then checking total. I said wow to self I thought cancer and D would be important. So, he had nurse pick a couple tests from book. I knew about the 2&3 because my nephew is allergic to everything and my sister told me his D total was 20 and his sister that could kick his butt (9 he's 12 maybe?) has a level of 50.

Hi tinglytoes,

Vitamin D2 can cause an upset stomach and other uncomfortable digestive issues. Vitamin D3 is less likely to do that because our body recognizes it as a friendly, natural substance..... similar to sun exposure.

Here is a piece from the vitamin d council with regard to not supplementing but rather "letting" the sun do it for us....

Understanding Vitamin D Cholecalciferol

The high rate of natural production of vitamin D3 cholecalciferol (pronounced koh·luh·kal·sif·uh·rawl) in the skin is the single most important fact every person should know about vitamin D—a fact that has profound implications for the natural human condition.

Technically not a "vitamin," vitamin D is in a class by itself. Its metabolic product, calcitriol, is actually a secosteroid hormone that targets over 2000 genes (about 10% of the human genome) in the human body. Current research has implicated vitamin D deficiency as a major factor in the pathology of at least 17 varieties of cancer as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, depression, chronic pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, periodontal disease, and more.

Vitamin D's influence on key biological functions vital to one's health and well-being mandates that vitamin D no longer be ignored by the health care industry nor by individuals striving to achieve and maintain a greater state of health.

Sunshine and Your Health......If well adults and adolescents regularly avoid sunlight exposure, research indicates a necessity to supplement with at least 5,000 units (IU) of vitamin D daily. To obtain this amount from milk one would need to consume 50 glasses. With a multivitamin more than 10 tablets would be necessary. Neither is advisable.

The skin produces approximately 10,000 IU vitamin D in response 20–30 minutes SUMMER sun exposure—50 times more than the US government's recommendation of 200 IU per day!

How To Get Enough Vitamin D:
There are 3 ways for adults to insure adequate levels of vitamin D:
•regularly receive MIDDAY sun exposure in the LATE SPRING, SUMMER and EARLY FALL, exposing as much of the skin as possible (being careful to never burn).
•regularly use a sun bed (avoiding sunburn) during the colder months.
•take 5,000 IU per day for 2–3 months, then obtain a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test. Adjust your dosage so that blood levels are between 50–80 ng/mL (or 125–200 nM/L) year-round.

Vitamin D's Co-factors:
Vitamin D has co-factors that THE BODY NEEDS in order to utilize vitamin D properly. They are:
•magnesium
•zinc
•vitamin K2
•boron
•genestein
•a tiny amount of vitamin A

Magnesium is the most important of these co-factors. In fact, it is common for rising vitamin D levels to exacerbate any underlying magnesium deficiency. If one is having problems supplementing with vitamin D, a MAGNESIUM deficiency could be the reason why.
End of literature.

Most supplements are synergistic. This means that they need other supplements in order to be effective. This fact is so important to know because it can be a waste of time and money if we are not properly absorbing and utilizing the supplements that we take.

Hope this info is helpful!

Bryanna

Here is the link to the Vitamin D council:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ more information is available there.

50,000 IU seems like a big number.

With Vitamin D this is 1.25mg when converted to milligrams.

This really a very small amount of Vit D.

I think when people have "reactions" to the Rx 50,000 IU it is because of the ingredients in the liquigel cap. One ingredient may be sorbitol (which is used in the manufacture of soft gel caps). You'd have to get an insert for it to find the other "inert" ingredients too. But mostly it is coloring agents, and probably soybean oil.

Drisdol is the brand name for 50,000IU dosage form of D2 ergocalciferol.
Here are the side effects listed at www.rxlist.com
Hypervitaminosis does not occur with a few capsules taken for a short time. It is a body state of sustained intake of high dose. And that insert information is quite old and does not reflect the new data coming in on Vit D today.

http://www.rxlist.com/drisdol-drug.htm

In fact I had a patient getting 3 of the 50,000 IU a day for several months! This was in a clinic setting, and he had some severe reason for this high dose, that I was not privy to.

Thanks Bryanna, I am glad to read that the huge bolus of D2 can cause upset. Which was the reason I had to stop it. My only other concern is that the co-factors in my case include magnesium. My kidney doc usually tests for magnesium due to some kind of negative affect on the kidneys. I have no idea how to balance everything. Luckily the sun is beginning to shine again. Hopefully with adding the Liquid BioD Imulsion Forte, the metabolizing issue will be moot. If you know anything about the issue of mg and kidney health please pass it on. Thanks for the great information. It helps!! TT

People with kidney disease and decreased functions, have to be very careful with magnesium supplements. These can become toxic very quickly. You should consult with your doctor about this.
So it may be best to get magnesium from food sources.

My thread here gives some suggestions.

Hi Mrs. D.

Five minutes ago, I just spoke to the girl a Alan's doctor's office. I said "Can I please have his Vitamin D Level, he took a blood test last month but we did not get the vitamin D level and we were told to call back this morning.

She came back to the phone and said "His level is 31.1. I said "was this the hydroxy test? and she said "yes, it's called a 25 Hydroxy test". She said normal was 30 to 100.

I said "Well, if normal is 30 to 100 and he's 31, I WOULD GATHER HE'S LOW???

She really didn't know.

Alan takes 1, 1000 Vitamin D3 pill every day. This is what I take also. But I also sit in the sun for 10 minutes a day. He NEVER DOES. He is very fair.

Do you think he should take more? He has bad psoriasis flare-ups as well as his neuropathy. I know it has nothing to do with Neuropathy, but maybe the auto-immune stuff going on?

thanks Mrs. D

Melody

Yes, he should be at least to 50. That would be 2000IU a day more. 50 is the new low normal, from the experts.

It is best to have liquigels, and not dry powder caps or dry tablets. I wonder if the dry ones are even absorbed, since Vit D is oil soluble.

Ah, I see, we have the tablet form. From CVS. When we buy our next batch we'll get the liquigels.

So I'll tell him what you said, and he'll take 3 pills a day. So will I.

What would we do without you?

I hope we never find out.

Thanks much

Melody
P.S. Just FYI, my sciatica is better. I've been doing those stretches and they help. My goodness, I'm beginning to feel like a 90 year old. lol

while you are "using up" the dry D, make sure you take it with some fatty food....

Well!!!! Guess who got the amount WRONG. I told Alan about what you said and he replied "What are you talking about, I take 4000 a day".

I said "you do what??" and you have a reading of 31.1???"

So I guess he should double this??? And take it with fatty food.

Well, I'd like to know what fatty food he could take it with because he's a vegan who doesn't eat meat and won't go near fish and he doesn't like cheese and he's gained weight because of his snacking and his lack of exercise because of his foot ulcer.

So what kind of fatty food (I eat salmon, so I'm covered), but what can I give this man to eat that is a fatty food?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks much

You use olive oil in salad dressing?

You use Smart Balance spread on toast/veggies?

You use peanut butter (Smart Balance I hope with flax oil)?

Vitamin D gel caps from iherb are very inexpensive. Much less than in stores.

If he uses 4000IU and got that reading he must have been near zero when he started, or the dry is not working at all for him.

The general rule (but not guaranteed to work for everyone) is 1000IU for ever 10 ng serum reading. Some people seem to store this in fat, or don't absorb. So this is just a generalized guideline.

Alan does NOT use Olive oil in salad dressing.
Alan does not eat peanut butter.

And I will buy the gel caps. I'll tell him what you said about how he probably was at zero when he began.

What I CAN do is saute his veggies in Olive Oil. that's a start. But that is not enough fatty food right? He should be eating Salmon once or twice a week. He won't go near any fish. Drives me crazy.

And he lives on those stupid low calorie Jello pudding things. He puts them in the freezer and thinks because they are low calorie, he can eat them all night long. Of course he can't do this.

He did NOT get the light bulb moment about food that I got.

He has severe neuropathy, he has depression, and he still uses food (even though it's low fat and low sugar), well he uses food to self medicate.

And I don't buy the stuff, he does.

Good Lord!!

Melody

This is more than about vit D now. If Alan does not consume good fats... flax oil, etc...he cannot maintain his nervous system properly. (Olive oil does not have appreciable omega 3s in it).

We have to consume some basic alpha linolenic acid --it is an essential Omega-3. Without it you cannot live. It goes into your body to maintain the skin, all cell membranes, nerves, stomach lining ...everything!

So he must be eating foods with omega-6 in them. Most veggies, and processed carbs.

If one does not balance omega-3 and 6 properly, the body becomes inflammatory, and cannot heal itself properly.

Mrs.D.

I just found this website:

http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/n...et=0&nutid=851

So because Alan has auto-immune things going on, I gather he needs more alpha linolenic acid in his body.

I guess I must high tail it to iherb and get us some, or Puritan's Pride maybe?

What do you think?

He does takes Alpha Lipoic Acid every day.

Mrs. D!!!!!
Guess what I found in my freezer (next to my cannisters of brocoli, radish and other sprouting seeds)??????

100% Whole grain Flaxseed.

I am going to grind it up. I read that you can use it in hot cereals, salads WHATEVER!!!

So starting tomorrow, I shall add it to Alan's breakfast oatmeal and maybe during the dinner time, his salad? Kind of like adding wheat germ right?

So after I grind it up, how much should I add to his oatmeal?

And by consuming this, maybe his psoriasis will calm down??

That would be amazing.

Thanks much
Melody

Yes, that would help. I don't know how long it stays fresh in a freezer. Flax is very unstable.

But yes, this is one way to increase alpha linolenic acid.
And it will definitely help the skin. My husband take the oil every day... 2 grams.

Okay, what did I do wrong? I put about half a cup of the whole grain flaxseed in my mini food processor to grind it.

I turned it on, it worked perfectly, ONLY IT DIDN'T GRIND ANYTHING.

I tried again.

It's still whole.

What happened? do I need a special grinder for this?

And after I figure out how to grind it, how much should I put in Alan's oatmeal?

A teaspoon full?

thanks much
P.S. I feel like a complete idiot. I'm trying to grind this stuff and nothing is happening. lol

flax options
 

Hi Melody, catching up on the Vit D issue and saw your post. Flax is great stuff. I wonder if you have noticed yet that it comes in pure form oil from the health food store. This makes it very easy to takem one tablespoon at a time.

I like the combination of EFA's, which is ideal 3-6-9 all vegetarian sources from Vita Cost. This is a great company to order from. Their house brand is Nutraceutical or NSI- 2k mg per serving 180 capsules . Forgot the cost, but cheaper than trying to get the combination from single sources. Evening Primrose and Borage are two sources of the EFA not found in Flax. Most ideal to get all of them in combination. So this brand does a good job without fish oil. Very affordable.

Also if you wish to grind flax, try using your coffee grinder, rather than your mini food processor. Grind only enough for one day and store the remaining in the freezer airtight. I love flax in pancakes.

I hope you can help your friend find a better substitute for those pudding things. Really filled with altered food which cannot be good or healthy. Best Wishes TT

Hi. I'll check out the vita cost thing. And I do thank you. My friend is my husband. He's he one who snacks all night long. I go to bed at about 1 a.m. He goes to bed at 7 a.m. because (as he put it, because I have neuropathy, I can't sleep at night, I sleep better during the day). He's right, he does sleep much better. But because he's a food addict (he used to weigh 300 lbs), but after getting a stent and going to a nutritionist, I changed all our food habits, especially the way my brain sees food...well, his brain doesn't do this. He self medicates with food, exactly as if he were an alcoholic or druggie.

It makes him feel better. Especially sweets. Now one can use splenda or stevia, instead of sugar. But he loads up on these chocolate pudding things which have more ingredients than one would like to be putting in one's body. Kind of like reading a twinkie package. Ever look at how many ingredients are on a twinkie package.

And Glucerna isn't much better. I'm a diabetic, and I was in my local CVS one day and I happened to come upon the diabetic aisle and I picked up a 6 pack of glucerna cans and I happened to say out loud to myself "oh, I should have this in my fridge in case I miss a meal", and the pharmacist walked over to me and said "you don't want to put that stuff in your body, look at the ingredients".

Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather. There are more ingredients in that can than I could count. I put the 6 pack down and have NEVER even considered it again.

I'm all about fresh ingredients. I wish my husband saw food that way but that's not going to happen. He's on the road to gaining back his weight. Nothing I can do. I give him balanced meals but when I go to bed and he's up, well, we all have to be accountable for our choices. I'm a BIG believer in that statement.

Oh, did you happen to catch the video that is going around about a lady with a 4 year old McDonald's hamburger and french fries. This item is not wrapped in shrink wrap or foil. It's in the exact Happy Meal box that she purchased 4 years ago. (Google it, and you'll see the video).

She takes out the french fries (which look exactly like they did 4 years ago), and she takes out the bun and hamburger (which looks exactly like it did 4 years ago). Looks exactly the same, no mold no nothing. Except it's rock hard, as is the bun. But the french fries look and feel like fresh.

She then took a regular potato, that had been sliced and showed it to the person who was looking at the happy meal. She said "look at this fresh potato. Look what it looks like after 3 months. (all rotted and everything). "Now look at the french fries in the Happy Meal". It looks like it did 4 years ago. She then says "WHAT ARE THEY PUTTING IN THESE FOODS THAT THEY KEEP THIS WAY". This is what is going into our bodies.

She believes that this is why OBESITY is rampant. All these preservatives are going into our bodies and STAYING THERE. She says "these will go straight to our thighs and they stay there".

I watched the video two times. She makes a lot of sense. Now I haven't had a McDonald's hamburger in over 15 years. I'm a vegetarian.

But when I watched the video and saw how the food looked, well, it's apparent that the fast food industry puts SOMETHING IN THE FOOD to make it last and not rot.

We should only eat food that will rot. That way our bodies process it and it gets digested and we eliminate it.

All these preservatives and additives will eventually do us in.

That's why I grow my own sprouts in my kitchen.

My body is better for it.

Now if only the weather would cooperate here in Brooklyn. It's going down to the 30's tonight. But this too shall pass.

If it's 90, I'm a new person.

I should really move to the Sahara Desert.

I'd be just fine.

HOT.... but just fine.

lol

Melody

Hi again.

I just went to VitaCost and found this:

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Organic-Flaxseed-Oil

Is this what you are talking about? It's a good price. I just want to make sure I get the right one. THERE ARE SO MANY.

Thanks much
Melody

Yes, that is fine. At least 2 a day or 3 if you can get him to do it.
Take with food. And keep the rest in the frig once you open them.

Oh, I'll GET HIM TO DO IT. Or he's a dead man. lol

but, BEFORE I BUY THIS, I want to use the flaxseed that I already have. It says 100% whole grain flax seed. The package says "Bob's Red Mill"

So I tried the food processor thing to grind it up. No luck.

WELL!!!! I just came back from Telco and I purchased a Proctor Silex Coffee grinder for Thirteen bucks.

I bring it home (now remember, I have never used a grinder in my life). This one is electric. Thank god I didn't plug it in first. I'm trying to open it. There is a little button on the side which looks EXACTLY LIKE MY SALTON YOGURT MAKER, in which you flip up this thing. I try flipping it up. It doesn't flip up.

I say "Melody, read the directions". Oh, it's the grinder button, it doesn't flip up." So I follow directions, pull off the top, pour in some whole Flax, replace the cover and

VOILA!!!

I press the button and I'M GRINDING!!!!

I did it.

I now will take one teaspoon of this and put it in Alan's oatmeal which he is having in about 5 minutes.

Should I use more?

One time a day (1 tsp) is good enough? or should I sneak another tsp into his veggies or something?

Thanks much

Oh, before I forget, I went to GNC, and saw ALL THE FLAX stuff, the oil, the milled stuff.

Quite a selection.

Melody

Using the website:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/n...roducts/3163/2

1 cup of flaxseed has 38 grams of Omega 3.

This computes at 5 grams of Omega 3 per ounce. (unground seeds). 240grams is 8 ounces= 1 cup. So you can start at 1/2 ounce of unground seeds /serving. I'd even go at one ounce to start so he will get up to snuff faster. Flaxseed is pleasant and should not taste funny. If it does, it has gone rancid, so don't use it. Things still continue to spoil in a freezer only at a slower rate.

I did the computation for 1 cup = 240 grams/8 oz. They have 1 cup at 168 grams. So you can multiply my results by
.6 to get a more realistic amount. But this is a macro nutrient/ food... do it doesn't really matter that much.

Mrs. D.

Math and computations have NEVER been my forte. I'm a linguist. I speak 5 languages, but I can't translate grams, ounces, etc.

If it's okay, I'll just do the 1 tsp of ground flaxseed into his oatmeal and the same into his salad.

I just had my sprout salad, and I did a teaspoon into the salad. The salad was just fine.

So now we are both on flaxseed.

Let's hope it helps him with his psoriasis.

That would be SOMETHING!!!

Thanks much

Melody

at the risk of sounding self congratulatory, i am damn glad i mentioned the fat with D .......! gotta get that D UP! hopefully will help with his depression, and have you tried benfotiamine for his neuropathy? geesh oh man, this is cool, maybe you will fix him up yet...lol

Well, he takes 5000 of the methyl every morning, And his latest B-12 levels were OVER 2000 so his levels are good. His neuropathy, well, he's had it for over 18 years, we think it's from his back, no one else thinks it's from his back, he's had mri's and x-rays up the kazoo, but his chiropractor neurologist said it's from his glutes. He's supposed to do certain exercises, he's supposed to this, and that. HE DOESN'T DO IT.

Sadly, he is no longer motivated. He's gained weight. He is on the computer ALL THE TIME. I have tried talking to him. Explaining that "you have a stent, you have coronary artery disease, you have to start eating like I do, enough with all those sugar free jello pudding snacks with all that crap in it".

I was sincere, I did not mope, (I have my own problems with sciatica so I can't be anyone's baby sitter any more). I'm quite tired of doing this. And before he yells at me and starts to say "how can you say this to me, you used to weigh over 300 lbs, so you can't be saying any of this to me".

I reply 'I was NOT EDUCATED BACK THEN, we went to NUTRITIONIST, we KNOW BETTER NOW, and I'm applying what I know".

He just says 'okay, yeah yeah yeah"

I see where this is going.

He is depressed over the fact that our son is lost to us. That he gave his whole life supporting him, nurturing him, only to have him leave home 8 or so years ago, and become a gaming addict. My son couldn't care less about us, and that has destroyed my husband's mind.

I can fully understand this. I don't choose to let this happen to me. I went in the other direction. I learned how to put ME first, and I re-wired my brain how to look at food, and the other stuff comes naturally. I've spoken to therapist, and psychologists (one even comes to the PN support group), and I've discussed what losing our son emotionally has done to me EMOTIONALLY. It's lovely to have someone to run stuff by. I became validated and I know that when I detached emotionally from my son's issues, and set up boundaries, well it was the right thing to do for me.

I even joined a message board for parents of younger and older kids who are addicted to Worlds of Warcraft, second life, ALL VIDEO GAMES. They NEVER come off the computer, they never leave their rooms, they leave school, WELL IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

But for me, the issue was MY HEALTH. I couldn't focus anymore on helping my son, I had to focus on me. I do this. It did have a cost though. My body spasms everytime I communicate with my son. Everytime my back goes out, or my bladder spasms, it's DIRECTLY because I communicate with my son.

I have to learn to physically detach from him. Maybe my spasming will stop. The psychologist says I have to put ME FIRST NOW.

But my husband?? well, he just self medicates with the wrong kinds of foods. He's a vegan, so one might think he would be thin. That is not the case. He eats the wrong kinds of stuff which he buys and brings into the house. He doesn't read any of these messages so I'm not afraid he will read this. I'm only afraid he will need another stent. He used to go to the gym and do the weights. It actually helped his neuropathy. The exercise brought blood flow to his feet.

But he is now a couch potato who goes from the couch to the computer, and back again.

I really don't know what to do. I can't motivate him. My son is in his own world 3000 miles away and could not care less. This is what has hurt my husband. He is not like me. He can't shut off his brain and focus on his health.

I'm thinking of writing a private letter to his primary care physician WHO IS A DOLL AND WHO MY HUSBAND ADORES.

If his doctor speaks to him firmly, I have a good idea that Alan will come home and say "Okay.... no more jello pudding snacks for me".

I shall give this a try.

thanks for letting me vent.

Melody

I've put up two more blogs on the Fructose thread on Diabetes.

I think you should have Alan read them! One is a cardiologist.

Cane Sugar(sucrose) is 1/2 fructose.

Hi Mrs. D (and thanks much).

I just showed Alan your posting. He said "thanks but no thanks".

You can bring a horse to water, you can't make him drink.

:mad:

I have to say that I was prscribed 50,000 IUD 1 time per week for 3 months. I took one and became sooooo ill I didn't dare try it again. I'm taking a lower daily dose now instead, but I haven't been retested yet.