There's a new lotion for PN
 

It's called NEUROPATHAL.

Here's the website.

http://www.neuropathal.com/default.aspx

Anyone ever hear of this?

Thanks, Melody

Looks like a typical formula... has the burning capsaicin in it!

Capsaicin supposedly blocks the cytokine Substance P and has been on the market for over 20 yrs now. Zostrix was the first form it came in.

It was brought to market at first primarily for post herpetic neuralgia from shingles.

This product does not seem like anything "new" to me. Just another slick website.

I think the other oils in it just cover the skin and change perception of the air and fabrics. I have noticed over the years that most creams/lotions change feeling in some way.

Notice the secretive nature of the product in general. I can't find an actual list of ingredients for this one either (like for some of the other "remedies" that appear on this forum!)

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As soon as I saw the capsaicin in it, I remember Alan's first experience using this product. About 8 years ago, when he was on the Fentanyl pain patch, he needed something during the half life of that patch, (he took vicodin) but all these drugs constipated him, so we were hoping to find SOMETHING.

So I bought the capsaicin cream, and he rubbed just a little bit on the top part of his foot (towards his toes).

Well!!! I never got so scared in all my life. He started screaming and this was 1 A.M. I just stared at him. I thought he lost his mind. He was yelling "I'm on fire, I'm on fire".

The only thing I knew to do was go and get some ice, wring out a wet cold towel, and place the whole thing on his foot. He was still in pain. I then grabbed a 25 Fentanyl pain patch, slapped it next to the one he already had on, and he went 'OHHHH, THANK GOD".

I will never forget that as long as I live. A few hours later, we took off the 25 patch (because what did we know, we don't know drugs, interactions, combining drugs, WE WERE CLUELESS , and there was no one to call at 1 a.m. especially when he went OHHHHH ! and felt just fine after I slapped the second patch on him. The cold on his feet helped the burning. When I took off the towel, I saw WHY he went on fire. He had a scratch along the top of his foot, and the capsaicin was rubbed INTO THAT SCRATCH.

Ouch

Anyway, about this new lotion. I wrote to the company and requested a free sample. My friend Doug said that they offer free samples.

Nothing to lose. I will, however make sure that there are NO scratches on Alan's feet and we will use BUT A DROP of the stuff.

Let's see what happens.

Will update.

Thanks very much

Melody

Hello,
I roll Capzasin on the ball of my right foot under the so called neuroma with hope it will neturalize the nerves in that area.

Hi Stagger:

We all have to try and find what works. Alan has tried it all. Neuragen, tiger balm, lidoderm patches, this lotion, THAT POTION, whatever exists (until this new one I mean), he has tried it.

I wish you well on your capsaicin journey.

Remember to thoroughly CHECK YOUR FEET FOR ANY SCRATCHES.

You don't want to jump off the bed.

Melody

First Time
 

Oh man, I remember my first experience with capsacian cream. I didn't know it stayed on your hands for so long after applying so I ended up getting it in my eyes and in my private area. It lasted for a half hour. That was probably the worst pain I have ever felt!! Words of warning: Don't ever get it in those areas!!!

:eek: OUCH.

lol
Melody

That's why one goes and buys surgical type gloves!
 

A very useful precaution to say the least. - j

I've gotten my menthol cream (very strong) into my eyes before, too.
I use drugstore (bought by the 100's) surgical gloves,
to apply my 'Icy Hot' (or the Rite-Aid generic 'Cool Heat').
One glove will last a few days before needing a new one.

The tiniest crack in the skin, which most are not visible will let the pepper stuff in. I just cannot stand it!

To get it off quickly, try rubbing alcohol. I had a customer one night on midnights, who was involved in an altercation in our parking lot, and got Mace all over her hands(after spraying a guy who was stealing from her). She was in terrible agony--- she came to me and we tried many things, and alcohol worked the best. Water and soap don't do much to remove it.

Don't know about the eyes tho.

Here is another point of view:
http://www.ehow.com/way_5208190_mace...reatments.html

Notice that using an oil based soap, makes it worse. It spreads the oil around.

I guess, end of Discussion?
 

I certainly hope so, There is no need to promulgate more pain in others. - j

**Disclaimer: I am a Neuropathal representative, I don't have all the answers but I can tell you more about Neuropathal.

I found this thread looking through google, I completely agree with what's being said about capsaicin and getting it on broken skin, eyes, etc. It is not good.

The other products like icy hot, bio-freeze etc are also not good for eyes, broken skin or sensitive areas of the body so you've got to be careful with any of these types of products.

We have had people come back and say that neuropathal does not burn like other capsaicin based products. Our intent is that the other ingredients mixed with the capsaicin reduce the burning feeling, and it works that way for some people but not everyone (too bad nothing works for everyone).

Also our concentration of capsaicin is not as high as most capsaicin patches, or creams.

Capsaicin has been medically proven to bind to specific proteins that reduce reporting of pain to the brain. If we can figure out how to reduce the burn but still provide the medical benefit of capsaicin then we'll have a great product. We believe we have done that in one form. Now the trick is figuring out how to make it work for a broader audience.

We are also researching other products that will offer similar benefits of capsaicin but that will not have the burn.

Last but not least, I noticed someone mentioned free samples, if you are interested in a free sample pm me and I'd be glad to send you one.

Thank you for coming on with that explanation. I'd like to know what concentration the capsaicin is. Also if it has menthol in it.

The website does not give the ingredients or their concentrations.

I've used Biofreeze for 3 years now, and never has its 3.5% menthol done anything to my eyes or "other parts" and I don't use gloves applying it. Biofreeze in the tube is a gel which does not linger on the skin. In fact my PT diluted it 1/2 and 1/2 for my Ultrasounds with the traditional ultrasound lubricant when I had the treatments in a very sensitive area for several months.

I suspect it has the geranium oil like some others from G. graveolens. This has a patent:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/52...scription.html

Well, Alan has thoroughly tested the Neuropathal and I can tell you one thing.

HE'LL NEVER USE IT AGAIN.

At the neuropathy meeting, Steve gave out samples, but because we already had them, Alan had had a head start. The first time he tried it he said "oh, it's so so".

At the meeting, Steve read the instructions and the one thing we didn't know was that you have to have it dry COMPLETELY before you put your socks back on.

Alan hadn't been doing this. So I said 'the next time you use this stuff, do what it says to do".

The next day (I was not home when he left the house), he had put some on his feet, he waited the 5 minutes, he went on his errands, etc.

And he came home grimacing saying "oh my god, my feet are on fire, get this stuff off of me". I then took some cold cloths and he wouldnt' even let me touch his feet (and this has NEVER happened).

We cooled off his feet as best we could, and he then put some Vitamin E all over where the fire was going on. He said "that's better".

He then proclaimed BIOFREEZE is the only thing he'll use from now on. No side effects, no burning, no nothing.

So.....this was Alan's experience.

I wonder if anyone has had similar things going on.

Well, we don't claim it works for everyone...that would be nonsense.

Neuropathies come from so many causes and are so diverse in severity and affected areas that its no wonder the medical community hasn't been able to come up with something that just plain works for everyone.

I'd like to hear other experiences about it as well. I have some additional references but of course the only people I hear about are having a good experience so they call to tell me about it.

We certainly wish Alan the best of luck in finding relief.

For those interested here is a list of the ingredients in Neuropathal.

Capsaicin
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose
Cypress Oil
Geranium Oil
Rosemary Oil
Arnica Oil
Peppermint Oil
Eucalyptus Oil
Polysorbate 60
Cocamide MEA
Glycerin
St John's Wart Infused Oil
Aloe Vera

Still no % of capsaicin....

I never recommend anything oral or topical that is secretive.

This is not the first product to keep such secrets, and I suspect few here are going to try this, even with the free samples.

It appears that capsaicin is the active ingredient.
And the other oils are inactive...if that information were listed on the label, that is.

It's not always secrets, I had to request the information from someone else within our company. The percentage of capsaicin is .1% which after looking online the typical range seems to be .025%-.1% with as high as 8%. I thought our product had .01% capsaicin in it so I stand corrected, Neuropathal has as much capsaicin in it as several other capsaicin based analgesic products.

In response to the percentages of the other ingredients, I can't just divulge the entire formula of our product over the internet. It's not that we are being secretive to hide something, but to protect our own research, development, etc into the product.

.1% is a high dose.... may cause substantial burning in some.
There is one cream called Capzasin HP which is .1%.

Zostrix HP (high potency) for comparison which was the only one out there for many years, and prescribed by doctors for quite a long time... is .075% Zostrix regular is .025%

Read carefully... 8% is not for OTC use and only applied for one hour under medical supervision.

Zostrix's both potencies have always had the strength on the label. Why you don't have access to it easily escapes me, and since it is not on the net, I couldn't find it. So it is a "secret". And even then you have garbled up the information on the previous post. :rolleyes:

No mysteries there.
The other ingredients don't really matter much IMO. If they did you could make the product with and without capsaicin for the sensitive people.

You'd do better by putting menthol in there, to counteract the burning.

Mel,
The PN community is an untapped resource for marketing of 'new' products.
Most aren't new, but re-worked formulas from older products that didn't catch on.
Someone, somewhere is determined to 'mine' this resource.
But they all ain't Kosher.
There is no reason to keep 'proprietary' ingredients or percentages off labels other than to admit its an older product re-worked, to those who read labels.
And us PN'ers do read labels if'n we know what's good for us.
I cannot tolerate the pepper extract products and
want to know if a product contains it.
Otherwise, I not only have wasted my money,
but subjected myself to unnecessary pain- or worse.
If'n they ain't up front with the label, they've got something to hide & I don't like doing business with 'Sneaky Pete's'.
The PN community is constantly being 'mined' to try to pry our hard earned and SSDI or retirement dollars away from us.

I was googling the various dosages of capsaicin, because I can' figure out which is more potent, .0.25% or .1%. I'm not good at math computations. Never was. But logically I said to myself "well, 25 is higher than 1, so 0.25% has to be stronger than .1% but what the heck do I know?

But... as I was googling this information I stumbled upon a clinical trial of using capsaicin as a treatment for idiopathic pruritus ani.

Well!!! I looked up idiopathic pruritus ani and I said "whoa, are they serious? using capsaicin treatment for that part of the body?"

They have to be kidding. But the findings were that it helped.

I do not understand this.

Mel, .1% is 4 times stronger than .025%.

Capsaicin is very very potent, so very small amounts are used and go a long way.

Whoa!!! That's a lot of capsaicin. I need to go back and re-learn my math.

Thanks much

Melody
P.S. Yesterday my afternoon sugar was 113 (2 hours after lunch).

I'm getting there. lol

thars gold in them there hills