Forgiving Them/Forgiving Ourselves
 

The French philosopher and novelist Alber Camus wrote in The Myth of Sisyphus: "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether lif is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."

Survivors not only must try to understand the reason why our loved ones answered no to Camus's fundamental question of philosophy, we must also struggle to accept the fact that their decision to commit suicide will forever transform our lives.

"I believe that total forgiveness is almost impossible to achieve," says Carol, the Minneapolis magazine publisher whose husband drowned himself just weeks before the birth of their daughter. "After four years, I have come to believe that life moves on, no matter what happens or doesn't happen. The biggest step for me was to understand that Josh's suicide was an outgrowth of depression and possible mental illness, it was not a normal way of responding to stress. I have to assume that my husband did not know what he was doing when he decided to walk into the lake and drown himself. It is important for me to believe that people commit suicide to end their pain, not to create pain for others.

From the book...No Time to Say Goodbye Author Carla Fine.

Camus
 

Good words.

The suicide of a loved one reshapes us. Our beliefs and perceptions have been shaken by the deliberate, permanent departure of a person we have cared for, depended on, cherished, and nurtured. To the existential question of "Why?," our loved ones have answered, "Why not?" and have chosen to leave. We must deal not only with their irreversible decision but also with all the unfinished business they have left behind.

No Time to say Goodbye....Author Carla Fine


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Our daughter was home this last week and she accompanied me to the Suicide Support Meeting. We were of course remembering and sharing with the moderator...I still have the beautiful letter our daughter sent to us about six months after Michael died...she asked me, "did you love Michael more? Weren't she and her sisters reason enough for me to continue living?" Of course I did not say what I thought...it isn't that I loved Michael more..it's that I buried Michael.

She also reminded me that she was working at a Counseling Center when he died...she has an MSW so her boss thought it would be a good idea to give her all the "suicide" casework that came in the door. :confused:

Perhaps that was theraputic but how difficult it must have been for her!
Here I am 21 yrs later and still learning things. :o

Hi Allfe,

I hear people say that people who commit suicide are cowards, what do you think is the best way to answer this? I don't agree with this at all, as a matter of fact I think just the opposite, it takes a lot to take this final step.

Question
 

Since when is it admirable to tolerate abject misery?

Hi Legalmania, people say the strangest things when they don't know what to say. That is such a judgemental word...coward. I'm not sure I agree that it's "courageous" either. It's often, imho, an impulsive act and an escape from the pain. Some people just dispair and are unable to see that it will get better. When the pain outweighs your ability to cope with whatever life is handing you at the moment...well, that's a dangerous place to be in...that's when you need to surround yourself with people who care.

Our son was 31 when he put that gun in his mouth. We have had two recent suicides in our community...a 30 yr old woman who took pills, and a 31 year old man who hung himself. I'm wondering about that age group...have they lived just long enough to lose their objectivity? Do they believe that they have seen and done it all? :(

And we know their parents....they are lovely people whose lives are ruinned and the silence that surrounds them gets in the way of their healing. ~sigh

Thanks Allfe, I know the suicide rate among our soldiers is outrageous. The government is finally looking into helping these brave souls when they get home. I realize it is a desperate act, but I just dislike it when they say the word coward. You are an inspiration to all of us, keep up the good work.

Thank you ALffe :hug:

I was called a coward, by a person who in future years went on to attempt suicide three times, that person now sees me as someone who understands their plight.......I DONT

WHY? because i truly believe it is a state of mind at the time of the act.
not COWARDLY OR HEROIC OR BRAVE OR STUPID, OR IRRATIONAL . But a state of confusion, often enhanced by alcohol or drugs, or pain..... most definitely drenched in low self esteem, low self worth, a lack of immediate choices, an un-natural calming lure of sanctuary... and the saddest of all if not the first attempt..............a learned response to coping with the un-cope-able.

When it comes to words like cowards and courageous, i think not of the person entrenched in the act at that specific time...............

i think of those who fail in the attempt...but in return or apparent failure go on to SURVIVE and succeed in life, the Moi's the Mistiss' the BJ's and so many thousands and thousands in this world

i think of the Alffes, Nikeys, Wisnomores, BJ's, nohopes, Mike's and thousands and thousands more in this world.


then i think of the 'PULL YOURSELF TOGETHERS' the 'I KNEW THEY WERE WEAK'

Then i think of the 'He should have made a better job of it , and done us all a favour' people. [ the true weak cowardly people who sit in the background passing judgement on other peoples misfortune. the ones who apparently saw it all coming yet did nothing to prevent it from happening.
Then there are the people who shamefully say 'oh what a tragedy' then go out of their way to complete a character assassination, to anyone vile enough to listen to the gossip they pedal. ]


Suicide is a state of mind, and yes as said a forever decision:

Maybe if surviving sudden anxiety, or long enduring pain, could be treated more humanely ie: ADVERTS STATING if suicidal go to A+E [E/R] IMMEDIATELY. Diagnosis= deadly .........Prognosis= if identified ASAP = 99% curable.

upon attendance at an emergency room...if people are treated as humans, and not lepers or time wasters, ..more people may not fulfil the act. more lives could be saved.

A KIND WORD DIFFUSES SUICIDE, IGNORANCE & REJECTION FUELS THE IDEOLOGY

David

You have nailed it my friend!! And in the process you've jumped started my engine this morning! Thank you.

We, (too few of us to mention,) have been trying to start a suicide support group...our location is difficult to find and harder still to direct people to...I could scarcely believe the reaction I got when I approached different locations with printed flyers about the group...places like the Good Will, the Library...my Church...

I was met with shocked faces..."we can't put up anything like that on our bulletin board!" Granted the word Suicide was prominately displayed hopefully to get ones attention but instead it proved to be the usual conversation stopper.

We now have professional brochures to hand out that hopefully won't alarm anyone. :o And I am a little hopeful at some recently offered assistance (thanks Mike).

After my experiences last spring I decided to try a new approach...I use the word SUICIDE in conversations with complete strangers...any chance I can get it in, I do. It is truly amazing how many people respond with...I lost someone, or I know someone who......

Once again I am reminded to "Talk about it"....

"A KIND WORD DIFFUSES SUICIDE, IGNORANCE & REJECTION FUELS THE IDEOLOGY"....so right on David!

David - you should be writing a book!!!!!!

Alffe - thank you once again for raising my awareness ... about so many things :hug:

Legalmania - thank you for asking your question. :hug:

Barbo - your statement, too, is brilliantly said! :hug:

:grouphug: