Nerve does anyone know how long it takes a nerve to regrowing
 

About 4 years ago I had surgery to my right hand. I had the joint replaced on the base of my thumb and at the same time they tried to fix tendinitis in my right forearm.

20 months after the first surgery I found out through a 2nd. surgery that my radial nerve about 4 inches above the wrist was severed. Since then I had a 3rd. surgery to try to fix the nerve again because it was not growing back in at all.

It has been 9 months since the last surgery and my hand to my elbow burns, icy, numbing, tingle and feels asleep most of the time and really hurts. My wrist feels broken most of the time the fingers hurt and cramp tingle I am now seeing a PM dr. for the pain.

My question is how long does it take for my nerve to grow back which is about 11 inches. Some Drs. say around a inch a month others say less. I am trying to get a better idea as to see when so all this pain will go away.

Anyone that has gone through this should have a better idea and answers. Any help would be great and many thanks.

Dennis

If conditions are optimal--
 

--meaning one has all the nutrients necessary, the damaging process is gone, and there are no other problems, the figure of approximately 1mm a day has been bandied about by a lot of research neurologists.

Nerve fibers tend to regenerate more slowly than just about any other bodily tissue. (Myelin sheathing tends to return somewhat faster.)

One can see that if one has damage to longer nerve tracts--say, sensory tracts that progress from the lumbar spine down to the feet, for instance--regeneration may be measured in years, assuming it is complete (much nerve recovery is patchy, and not in the same pattern as it was originally). And sensory nerves, especially, may produce all sorts of weird and painful sensations (parastheses) as the fiber growth cones fight through other tissue on their way to their targets.

Don't think many of us have had a radial nerve severed,
but many have had PN after surgery.
Sometimes it just doesn't happen (nerve regrowth).
Most observations is that regrowth, when it does happen,
is extremely slow.
Painfully slow, (pun intended) as the nerves tend to send mixed signals of a pain type to the brain, during the process.
Dependent on the type of nerve, and proper supplements and diet, it could take up to 2 or 3 years for a gap to be bridged.

This article gives some explanations about nerve regeneration.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1270360-overview

When I had my tumor removed on my left foot many years ago it was numb for a long time....the top of my foot.
They did regrow back, but it took years, before I noticed I had feeling again on the top of my foot.

EEESH, I am looking at having tendon transfer surgery, which is the surgery to fix arthritis at the thumb. Mine are horribly painful and are losing function fast.....the guy doing mine does hand reconstruction but your story is giving me a scare.....hmmm.

I don't imagine any one wants to admit they screwed up cutting the radial nerve, but, geez, how do you cut the radial nerve!?!

I wonder if it is the radial nerve thing or if you developed reflex sympathetic dystrophy from all this.

I suppose if I asked you if you would do it again you would say no, so, now I have to think this thru....I dunno, are things better left alone? If I don't do something, I will have useless hands and a lot of pain....if I do something, do I end up with a situation like yours? I have that broken wrist sensation now, and have had no surgery. I DID break that wrist 10 years ago, and now and then it feels totally rebroken, but it isnt.....to think that feeling could present all the time is not comforting.

Thank you for sharing this and I do so hope this can be resolved for you.:hug:

On feeling after surgery, I had several C Sections 30 years ago....I am still numb in my abdomen above where the scar is.

Can a major nerve grow back?

Is there a possibility of using stem cells or something to stimulate growth?

I am still stunned they cut your radial nerve.......

(I am not going to sleep all night....I am supposed to see this surgeon again next week....lord....I think I may be better off eating more pain pills and neurontin.)

Hello Cyclelops

This past Dec 2009 my new hand Dr. redid the base thumb joint by using my tendon in a finger eight she replaced a silicone joint which I was allergic to and because I was having problems with the silicone joint she also had to do a carpal tunnel release. She then cleaned the nerve ends to my radial nerve which was not regrowing from the first attempt to fix the served nerve. So she trimmed back the nerve ends and placed a 4 inch tube just above my wrist. So far my new thumb joint and the carpal tunnel have been very successful. The radial nerve is not doing very well. My hand Dr. has sent me to other Drs. which they have all told me that I now have CRPSII and that I will have to live with this pain for the rest of my life. My new hand Dr.has been great she has been caring willing to try to help me in any way she can and she has gone above in what she could do for me. I now see a PM Dr. every 30 days to work with me on managing my pain.

The first Dr. that I went to for 2 years before I allowed him to do the joint surgery after looking back was someone that acted like he did not have time for you and only spent 5 minutes with you on any office visit except when I wanted to do the surgery then he made time for you but it was only 15 minutes to go over what he was going do do.

This is very important for anyone that is having any kind of surgery.

Before you are wheeled into the operating room your Dr. doing the surgery must come into the prep room to go over what he/she is going to do and mark where they are going to cut you open and mark how many places they are going to cut you open so both you and the Dr. are clear on where they are doing the surgery openings. Why because if you feel that they are only going to do several procedures through one opening instead of 2 or 3 openings you can ask why before instead later why didn't you do more opens.

The Dr. that did my surgery several years ago never came into the prep room to see me before the surgery because he did not have time for me he was to busy doing one surgery after another throughout that day. If he had only took 2 minutes of his time to go over what and how he was going to preform my surgery I would not be in the mess that I am for the rest of my life.

So Cyclelops and anyone else having surgery see your Dr. just before they preform your surgery by having a clear understanding as to what and how and make sure you feel right about everything or keep asking until you feel right a few more minutes to make sure all your questions are answered to your satisfaction. After all it is you that has to live with the outcome of the surgery for the rest of your life not your Dr. Your just a other patient.

Sorry for being so long winded

Dennis

I want to thank everyone for there reply' s. Everyone here on this forum are great in giving their time and information. I have learned more from many folks here then from most of my Drs. The people here know first hand as to what may be wrong where as a lot of Drs. learn from their patients.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis. I was optimistic that this surgery could potentially resolve this terrible thumb pain and inability to even use my hands for simple things, like buttoning and opening pill bottles....I will talk to my doc this week and see how he does the procedure.

I hope you can find relief. Have you tried neurontin or lyrica, or a combination of those with an opiate?

I have tried Gabapentin, Lyrica, Cymbalta. and have side effects. Cymbalta was the worst after 8 weeks on it could not wait until it was out of my system. Something about nerve pain meds I have problems with.

My PM wants to do the SCS but I am a little gun shy with anyone messing around my back. After all the pain meds that I am on I still have pain around 7-8 most of the time throughout my whole arm because of the nerve damage. A/C in buildings and vehicles are the worst. My hand Dr. told me that I basically have a raw nerve in my lower arm that effects my whole arm. It hurts very bad in my arm pit where it feels like someone has a 7" heel in my arm pit and is trying to remove my arm by turning and ripping it off like a turkey leg all the time. Each week that goes by gets worst as far as pain level. Right now early morning it is 81 deg. and climbing over a 100 by noon. I feel so bad for my wife because she knows how the a/c effects me so she leaves the a/c way down for me. Anyone else out there with nerve pain like this I would like to here from. I know that there are a lot of people on this forum that are in worst shape then me. But any help would be great.

Dennis

Just a tip....my neuro says a lot of the 'spinal picks' I had did NOT help my small fiber neuropathy. He hates spinal needling....so, for what that is worth, your concern on SCS may be valid.

Dennis,, I have SFN,, and I have the same exact feelings as you do,, except I have it body wide,,, I understand what your saying about feelinglike your arm is being ripped off,, and any kind of breeze from teh Air Cond sets it off,, I have tried just about any med out there,, and even though it might be taking the edge off,, its just making everything worse in my opinion,, my guts are a mess,, and I dont know if its from teh meds or from the neuropathy

I got a steroid shot in my median nerve and my wrist feels very good....so apparently there is some inflammation there despite the negative emg.

Anyway, would a steroid shot help your situation, Dennis?

Cyclelops

One Dr. tried this 2 years ago. The shot worked for 1 hour then everything right back to the way it was. Very painful.

Dennis

My femoral nerve was severely damaged but we don't think it was severed entirely. It's been a year and it's regrown almost to my knee, if that helps (I'm 5'8").

peppermintpatty

Sorry, but I am not sure as to what the length or distance would be to regrow. Also did you have nerve pain and did it ever go away. I have most of my nerve pain in the upper part of my arm which seems to increase by the week.

Yes to everyones all post have been very helpful.

Thanks to everyones for all there replies.

Dennis

nerve growth
 

[I have several issues, cervical and my feet. I have anterial tibial disfunction. I had a cyst, removed, came back, and had it removed again. There were nerves involved, that were severed trying to get this thing out. I have had pain and tingling since post 1 yr. It is however getting better. It is real slow, but feeling is starting to return and its not as painfull. Touch alone made me jump at first. I truely think these things can get better in time. I hope your situation improves. I was really worried at first if I had made a mistake in doing the surgery again. Good luck to you. Ginnie ::D

My last suggestion is a nerve block of some kind, but, I assume they would have to redo it periodically?

Or, what do they do for surgery? Can they do some kind of block like that?

My thought on stimulators is they do just that, stimulate and you already have too much stim goin on.

Gosh, I feel so badly for you. I am so sorry you have to go thru this.....

I have scheduled my surgery, and am pretty scared about it....but, no choice, I guess.

nerve blocks
 

When they did the last surgery since she was doing 3 different procedures all at the same time carpal tunnel, redoing the thumb base joint by removing the silicone joint and using my tendon to make a joint, and last but not lease trying to repair the transected radial nerve just above the wrist area for the second time. Since the first time did not take because of a 4cm gap between the nerve ends and the NeuraGen tube used only allowed the one end of the nerve the live end to grow a rather large neuroma at the tube end. All this activity in this area of my hand/forearm made the radial nerve very sensitive beside having work done to the nerve itself so this is why I needed the blocks before the surgery.

One hour before the surgery they came in and did a nerve block in my arm pit which made my whole arm dead which was for the 3 main nerves in my arm this lasted for 3 days after the surgery very strange feeling.

Several months after the surgery my PM Dr. gave me some blocks through the front of my neck. These blocks did not work so we stop doing them. All I got from them was a very sore throat. The block never heated by up to 5 degrees in my hand wrist area where the nerve was repaired like it is supposed to according to the Dr.

It has been almost 2 years that my nerve was first repaired and now 8 months since the last surgery and the top of my hand burns, numbing, tingling pain all the way up to my elbow. The upper part of my arm is always in pain no matter how many pain meds I take. Each week that passes it seem to be getting worst. I have my next appt with my PM Dr. next Tuesday I am going to ask him for a block like what I had before my surgery to kill the arm from my shoulder to my hand. I know I will have to wear a sling all the time but at least the pain should be gone. Another Dr. that I saw for a second opinion on a SCS felt this would be better than the SCS. The more anyone messes with my hand/wrist the worst the pain gets afterwards.

Sorry for the long answer.

SCI recovery
 

In July I had a t12 fracture, my spinal cord was swollen and bruised. My bones are healed and now I'm just waiting for nerves to regenerate. I currently have B&B issues and i'm seeing docs to try to take care of that. I know a combination of nerves need to rework themselves and I'm wondering if regeneration happens one at a time 1mm a day, or each nerve 1mm a day??

I currently have a dropped right foot, my ankle has very little movement up and down. I have sensation/feeling in my legs all the way down to my feet but my calves and hamstrings have been reduced to very little.
Possibility of building muscles while nerves are regenerating??

I used to be in really good shape, healthy eater/exerciser, and now I just don't know what to do with myself. my doctors say I'm doing everything I can but its just that, that drives my crazy. PT 3x a week in the gym, acupuncture, massage therapy, workouts at home, walking (w/cane & AFO), eating well, electronic stimulation, therapy, research & thats about all folks - but I also need adequate rest. I feel really stressed about all of this and don't want to hinder any progress. Any tips?? ANYONE!!!

:eek:
Thanks,
Lisa

Under optimal conditions--
 

--which means no further damaging processes, sufficient oxygen and nutrients, and the like, the figure usually given for nerve regeneration is around a millimeter each day. This would apply to all regenerating nerves--the body generally doesn't concentrate its efforts on one nerve tract to the exclusion of all others, and then, when that tract is "restored", shift to the next one.

What this means is that a fiber that begins in the dorsal root ganglia and reaches down to the fingers or toes might take years to reach its destination, if it ever does. Many people have nerve regeneration that is patchy or incomplete. And seldom do the nerves take the exact same route to their afferents that they occupied before; along the way the nerve growth cones have to fight through and around connective tissue, muscle and the like, so I think the millimeter/day estimation is fairly optimistic.

There are certain nutrients that facilitate nerve repair.

methylB12 (which does cross into the spinal cord and CNS)
folate
P5P (activated pyridoxine B6)

fish oil to provide the lipids needed for cell membranes

Magnesium to facilitate lipid metabolism...

These are the basics. Mitochondrial support may help too...
acetyl carnitine
CoQ-10
R-lipoic acid

These three may aid the cells in the axons to provide more energy for the repair.

What about taurine?

"Taurine is an amino acid that can be made in your body from two other amino acids: cysteine and methionine...

"A facilitator for the passage of sodium, potassium and possibly calcium and magnesium ions into and out of cells."
http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/TAURINE.HTM

"taurine can replace some of magnesium's functions when magnesium is deficient. . . Both nutrients exert sedative effects and lower the excitability of nerve cells."

http://www.studio41.co.nz/Community/...-of-magnesium/

I don't know if magnesium taurate is made with the right ratio (I take my Mg and Taurine separately).

There's not much research on humans yet, but there has been some success with rats.

"Studies have shown taurine can influence (and possibly reverse) defects in nerve blood flow, motor nerve conduction velocity, and nerve sensory thresholds in experimental diabetic neuropathic rats."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

It seems pretty safe from what I've read so I take it every day, esp. because I don't eat much meat, which causes a taurine deficiency.

P.S. It's good for cat eye health.

Humans should be able to make enough Taurine to get by normally.

But diabetics seem to have problems relating to low taurine specifically. Since it is made in the pancreas, there may be some link there.

Also extra taurine can be helpful for sluggish gallbladders, and to help reduce gall stones.

Cats are one of the few mammals who cannot synthesize taurine for themselves. They are dependent on the rodents they eat for it. This is why taurine is added to commerical cat foods.
I give extra taurine to my cats, mixed into their food, when I give "human" type food proteins to them. (Tuna in oil, for example). I have found that giving table food minus seasonings, leads to better health for them. And Oreo with her mast cell cancer does very well on Tuna in oil. (with Taurine added by me). The goal according to the Vet is to keep her from losing weight, and the Tuna does this very well. She also gets plenty of commerical cat foods too, including a new grain free kibble by Blue Buffalo.

I can't see taurine being a problem for humans, as a supplement. I've used it myself for gall bladder issues now and then, but I don't take it all the time.

Taurine and inositol are recommended supplements in some papers for diabetics.