How do I seperate myself from bipolar?
 

Help me out please.
I have been manic and getting restabilized this past month following a too stressful period of time around the holidays this year.
Fortunately, I did not really get into too much trouble except for the fact that I took more medication than I told my pdoc.
I increased my geodon on my own when she specifically told me to call her when I got into trouble. This has happened before as well.
..... this time I was afraid that she was going to hospitalize me and felt if I could just get past this mania and be back to normal then I would be fine.
I mistakenly told my therapist this and she made me tell my pdoc...
or she was going to tell her, herself.
I was enraged at this betrayal.
Hind sight...she was just doing her job.

I faxed her a letter explaining what I had done and she was very mad at me.
so about a week later I faxed another note to her apologizing, telling her that I used bad judgement, fear of hospital etc.

When I saw my pdoc yesterday...I was really anxious to actually face her.
by this time I have figured out that she has spoken with my therapist...and we needed to talk about how we can better work as a team.
"what is it going to take for you to call me?"

By this time I am sobbing about needing her and not wanting to bother her and she is saying something about "my abandonment issues"...and I feel so pathetic and vulnerable.
I hated it.

She told me I needed to work on myself...seperate from my bipolar.
I said that you can't seperate that out..and she said you can.

So
HOW DO YOU SEPERATE yourself from your bipolar?
I am confused by this??????:confused:
bizi

Wow, Bizi,
Sorry about the pdoc appointment.
I guess you need her to explain further.
Or better, get the tdoc to explain since they seem to have spoken a bit. :confused:

I could take a guess. ;)
Perhaps she means that abandonment issues can be dealt with as seperate from bipolar. A person theoretically could have those issues with or without bipolar.
And I suppose she is tying this vague "abondonment issues" stuff to your issues about not calling.

=-=-=-=-
My issues with my parents ARE unrelated to my bipolar.
I'd be working on getting over being annoyed with them with or without bp.

My issues about not being on time (ever!) are complicated but I don't think that they are related to bipolar.

My control issues..
OK. Not interesting anyway, but you get the point maybe.


Is that the kind of thing that you are talking about maybe?


Mari

thanks for your note Mari.
my bipolar rather "moods" effect every aspect of my life.
it effects how I interact with people at work.
am I supposed to subsitute the word moods for bipolar.
so I have to deal with my moods with medications..but the behaviors that i end up doing, consequences of my behavior..that is not my bipolar?
those are issues that I have to deal with.
does this mean that I can't use my bipolar as an excuse/explanation for my impulsive behavior?
My therapist doesn't want to talk about my bipolar label she wants to talk about my issues. My pdoc doesn't think my issues go together with the mood which she treats with meds. These are seperate....
This still doesn't make sense to me.
I guess I need to learn this new language...it seems really foreign to me.
sigh~
bizi

so what are your bipolar issues?
if you don't mind me asking you this...
how does being bipolar affect you?

i hate to say it but it sounds as if you need a new therapist pronto....I have been spending a lot of time at Ron's, the one with the bedsore. I find bipolar comes out a lot from my mouth. It is the truth...It is definitely one huge part of me and I can recognize the symptoms but I cannot be separate from them.
My legs make me walk and I recognize that...I think she is asking you to at times cut off your legs.
My psychiatrist lets me mess with my meds when need be. There is no censor(sp)....He doubled up my antipsychotics and once said why wasn't I on them.
I told him he was the doctor and he had taken me off of one but didn't tell me to go on another and since I am bipolar I didn't recognize that I was in trouble.
I don't think you need to go to a hospital when you get manic unless there is a self injury factor. Your post got me really mad. They don't sound like a supportive team and seem to be putting stress on you. We all know that stress can lead to the flareup of symptoms.
My bipolar is a big part of me and I now just try to look at it as a gift from the divine to draw me closer. Attie is following her nonstress program and for a couple of days didnn't even need to take her small dose of antidepressants.
I am so sorry you are having to go through this...It just isn't fair but in the short term who said life is fair.
Bobby

Hi,
This post is easier to answer than your first post, so I will give it a try.


Thing I consider bipolar are things related to what meds work on.
Things separate from bipolar are things that I might have anyway.

But really, this is just for the sake of argument. I don't think we can really make good distinctions. And we should not have to.

Mari

I agree with Bobby. :)


This is Bull *****.
I would think that a person with bipolar needed help with bipolar more than with issues -- especially after a near manic episode like you have told us about over Christmas.

Mari

What triggers it?
Goodwin: Although genes are responsible for making a person vulnerable to developing it, the environment usually triggers it. The vulnerability is genetic, but the trigger is not. It may not be abnormal stress like a death in the family that triggers it. It might be normal stress.
Once a person has gone through several episodes, the disorder starts to take on a life of its own. The vulnerability for more episodes gets lower. Every time there is an episode, the brain changes chemically. It's sort of like allergies. You have tremendous exposure to a substance, and you become sensitive to it.
Often, people with undiagnosed mental disorders self-medicate. Are people with bipolar disorder likely to abuse alcohol and drugs?
Goodwin: About 30 to 50 percent of people with bipolar have a history of substance abuse. They may turn to alcohol and drugs to blunt the pain of depression.
Then, you have two problems you have to treat. You have the substance abuse and the bipolar disorder. That makes the treatment of bipolar harder.
Can people just get better on their own, without doctors?
Goodwin: If left untreated, bipolar tends to get worse. This is not something that they can get over on their own. It's inevitable that another episode is going to occur if they don't get treatment. That's one reason why we want to get the word out. Treatments have improved tremendously for this disorder. So, it's all the more unfortunate if people aren't seeking help. We think only half of people with the disorder are getting help.
Why aren't more people getting help?
Goodwin: Often, people are misdiagnosed. People tend to seek out help when they are depressed. When they are in their highs, they tend to have less insight into their behavior and think it's normal. However, families may be scared because they see patterns of behavior. Mania is often the beginning of a depressive phase.
What's the danger of misdiagnosis?
Goodwin: If the doctor assumes it's a unipolar depression, it would be treated with antidepressants, and by using antidepressants such as the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, you can make the mania worse. It can overshoot you into mania because there is no brake on it.
How are people treated?
Goodwin: The core of treatment is a mood stabilizer such as lithium. They can be very effective in manic episodes, but they have not been nearly as effective with depression. We had very little to treat the depression. Now, we have a very effective anticonvulsant drug called Lamictal® that was approved by the FDA recently for reducing the likelihood of future depressions in people with bipolar disorder. It is the first mood stabilizer to stabilize "from below" and therefore it gives more people reason to come out of the woodwork. People used to say, 'Why go to the doctor? All they can do for me is help with the high, which I like.' Now we have something for them.
What are the degrees of bipolar disorder?
Goodwin: There are so many variations of the disorder. Some people who have an episode in their teens may not have another for 10, 15 years. Other people may have episodes every year or every other year like clockwork. It's a spectrum disorder with many shades of gray.
Bipolar 1 is the most severe form. Almost every bipolar 1 patient goes into hypomania, which can develop into full mania. Someone with hypomania would tend to have very high energy, become more productive at work, have some trouble with overspending, but they would not reach the point of being hospitalized. How you might feel in a hypomanic phase is like hitting the lottery or winning a prize. But in hypomania, the euphoria tends to feel artificial to the patients.
Full mania is much worse and not pleasant at all - it's more than a cocaine high. When manic, people are often psychotic and are really disabled by the illness. They may need to be hospitalized against their will. They may have trouble with the police.Some people may have rapid cycling where they have four or more episodes in a given year or even within a 48-hour period. One out of every seven will be rapid cyclers.
What can families do to help?
Goodwin: Often it's up to the families to help because they have a better feel for what is going on. Insist on being involved in the treatment. A lot of misdiagnosis wouldn't happen if doctors involved families in the visits and management of the disorder.
https://www.healthatoz.com/healthato...ages/alert.jpg Children, teens and adults being treated with antidepressants, particularly people being treated for depression, should be watched closely for worsening of depression and for increased suicidal thinking or behavior. Close watching may be especially important early in treatment or when the dose is changed - either increased or decreased. Bring up your concerns immediately with a doctor.

Mari
I do a lot of the same things...I am working so hard at minimizing stress...I am also reminding myself that I am getting healthier even though I hardly leave my apartment and other things.
Bobby

bobby
 

I am so happy for you...
you are sounding healthier...
this is great!
bizi

Hi, Bizi,
We posted at the same time.
Can you get a new therapist?

I like mine. She is always reminding me to cut myself more slack.

Mari

I also get ticked now when people who know me haven't learned to recognize the symptoms of bipolar in me and what is normal behavior. Ron is referring me as a non busy person since "i have so much time on my hands" I want to use a swear word beginning with f....There are so many things I want to do that I don't have the energy right now to do. Anxiety is also preventing me from doing things I should be doing. Even the medication can't stop the anger.
I could think the people were another swear word two syllables beginning with a -but I would really attack a supposedly educated person in the field.
and ask if the going was getting to rough...
Needed to vent

thank you but we are supposed to be talking about you
Bobby

Changing therapists....
 

I have been thinking about that...
she is having alot of personal issues, her S/O just passed away,,,cancer..terrible death, 80 pounds when he passed away....in her house after she has been taking care of him for years.
any way....
I should go to bed now...up too late.
thank you guys for being here and helping me to try to figure this out....
bizi:grouphug:

Bobby,
This situation of people (only Ron?) not allowing you to be bipolar is close to untolerable. I don't know if I would be able to deal with him.
You are amazing.

Also, I find it helpful when you talk about bipolar being a gift.
I suppose that that is similiar to what I used to say about trying to embrace bipolar and befriend it. Becuase you are right, we do have something to learn from it.

I'm going to head to bed.

Mari

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 69018) I also get ticked now when people who know me haven't learned to recognize the symptoms of bipolar in me and what is normal behavior.

my hubby can't either...frustrating
bizi

I am starting to figure out that unless I recognise that I am bipolar and I am prone to panic, I will ignore the warnings my body is issueing and will end up worse off. There has to be intervention before the full blown swing reaches up or down. I see this with Wes too. If we can head off the mania in its first stages, we stay out of the hospital. If we don't..........

So I would say we have to know we are bipolar. We have to listen to our own bodies and take charge of our monster. By embracing who we are we have to accept the monster is part of us and tame it and teach it tricks to entertain us, to protect us.

But my name is not BiPolar. My soul is not BiPolar. I am Erin with all of her faults and all of her accomplishments and even all of my inner demons. Maybe that is part of the seperation? I don't think so. I think that is still acceptance of the disorder. Or as Bobby says, learning about our gift.

I think your therapist needs to give you more information in the way of what she means to teach you. I think your pdoc needs to be more specific when she throws out little bits of her mind at you. She is NOT bipolar. She doesn't KNOW how this feels. She can only see from the outside and read and study what is does.

If they are physically and mentally unable to do this for you, I would seriously consider changing docs.

I don't understand the therapist at all. IF we could separate ourselves from Bipolar, then wouldn't we all NOT be Bipolar?

Issues are things that everyone has to deal with BP or not BP.

Issues for BP people are sometimes much more difficult to deal with.

DITTO....on a new therapist.

Hugs, Nikko:hug:

Thank you Bear.
This is such a sweet testament.
I have been really trying hard to keep a handle on this, this time...
are they expecting that I never have any more hypomanias?
Is that the goal here?
I think that is unrealistic...that is part of the disorder...I am bipolar 1.
For the past month I have been taking a lot of geodon right now and I am still hypo manic....have been for a while.

Thank you nikko for your words as well...and Mari and bobby for helping me last night.

bizi

In the end everyone is his or her own doctor of last resort. I think the whole field of mental health needs an overhaul, but that's just one guy's opinion. A lot of other things would have to change too. I liked the comment about the "divine gift that brings us closer."

therapists and why we put up with them
 

Hi, Bizi,
The more I think about this, the less I think the conversation has to do with separating bipolar issues from other issues.

The pdoc seems impatient with you or with your situation.
The pdoc seems not clear with how to deal with you.

And the tdoc, well, she is annoying and doesn't seem to get it.
Most therapists I've run into think that their job is to improve the patient's lives. They want to see progress. They are achievement oriented.

And many times, we don't make progress in the way that most therapists define it.
For me often progress invovles feeling better about my situation and being better able to cope......more or less...

So I don't know what the issues are that the pdoc and tdoc are talking about. (ignore my posts from last night :confused: )
And who said that we HAVE to work on our issues????
Other groups are not expected to be in therapy and solve their issues or work on themselves. Some people hug their crap close and mishandle everything through their issues without out every going to counseling (I know. I have many in my family. Many in my workplace.)

Back to bipolars:
Therapy doesn't even work for lots of bipolar/mood stuff. Therapy helps us deal with the dx, helps us manage our meds, helps us manage our days......
So in that regard, maybe your therapist was a big help recently. Possible (I'm not sure), she helped you through the recent mania(ish) battles. And she did her job I think by encouraging you to call the pdoc and then calling for you.

So perhaps she earned her keep?

But what I'm saying is that she doesn't see it that way. She wants to chart your progress. Or check off boxes.

Maybe you can clarify with her what your therapy goals are.
I'm thinking that goals change from time to time. When we are feeling on top of the word and doing well, we might want the therapist to help us move ahead with achieving our personal goals.

But when we are in the middle of bipolar and meds stuff, we need the therapist to help us stay in front of the mood and not lose to it.
When I had Xanax withdrawals last summer, my therapist listened and sympathized and encouraged me to call the pdoc. That's all she could have done. Her therapy skills were otherwise useless. I was having lots of w/d symptoms in her office and off the charts with anxiety. And it was about the Xanax -- nothing about me.
For her to tell me later that I have to work on my issues is crazy. Really.


So in sum, mostly I would say to stop worrying and lighten up on yourself.
Also, it wouldn't hurt to talk to the therapist about what you expect from her and when you expect it. :)


Mari

getting through the day sometimes
 

Dear Bizi,
You can use whatever language you want for it.
You shouldn't have to adopt to the language of the therpaist.
I guess she is trying a kind of thing about feeling more in control of what is going on by using language that says sometimes you can control/modify/stop the moods.


This is why G-d made pdocs.

Use your bipolar for every excuse/reason/explanation you need.
For crying out loud, every day that we get up and get through our day is a triumph.

And no, it doesn't make sense to me.
I think that when a person feels stable, they can do whatever they want in therapy. During times of crisis, we are bipolar patients, pure and simple.

OK. I could be soo soooooo wrong. I'm giving it a try here.
I hope that some of my thoughts help.
And it helps me to think it out a bit too.

Good luck Bizi.


The thing about being mostly depressed like I am is that I don't have the luxury to be hard on myself. I have to baby myself and tell myself I am doing a good job. I say "good job, Mari" or "thank you god" throughout the work day because first of all, I am doing a good job. And second of all, I am achieving a near miracle simply by functioning.

I think if I ran manic, I might not be that way. I might be hard on myself and pushing for more more more and getting frustrated.


:Trapeze 2:

I'm speculating again.
Off to bed.
I hope you have a good Sunday.
Mari

My psychiatrist has helped me big time. He is all accepting and when there is an opportunity he puts in a positive word. He has only triggered me maybe three times in the past five and half years which is a miracle in itself.
He provides me with a stable environment to visit and he is a rock. He has not tried to change me or command me to do anything. He answers my questions as best as he can.
It is very nice having a rock to visit lol
not some idiot
Bobby

What if
 

Bizi, what if you had diabetes, should you or could you seperate yourself from that.
Seems they would be a part of your life, not consuming it, but a part of it.
I don't get the remark?

Di

I think I would do anything to avoid another hospitalization, including running away!
Now I know that sounds manicy...
thank you again, my friend
...will post more later too.
I need to reread all of this.
bizi

Mari, you are so eloquent.

bizi, love you. I hope that things start pulling back into a better place for you. I am happy that Mardi Graus is still happening but I wouldn't be able to handle all the mayhem and chaos while trying to get through a mania. It would be unbearable. HUGs and Hugs today.

bizi
 

:hug:

you are getting some great advice and feedback. i'm sorry i wasn't here for you yesterday. spent from 7am until 11 pm moving my folks.

my take on this may not be correct. but...here goes.

you have bipolar. it is a disease. it is part of you. makes up who you are. it does not define you. you are bizi who has bipolar.

just like any disease, you needs meds to help control it. the sme med and dose does not always work the same. adjustments need to be made.

just like any person with any disease, there are additional emotional issues attached. getting depressed because you have bipolar, have a death in the family, an anniversary of a death, non supportive spouse, family or friends, all play a part.

this can also be said of most illnesses. not to talk about myself, but i have a chronic progressive back condition. not having the support..having to ask for help, family not "seeing" before i way over due it and cause myself more pain...it just adds to the cycle.

i am very sorry for the loss your pdoc suffered. but if it effecting her prioffesional life, she needs to take a break. even telling her patients...can lead to more stress for y'all.

i hope you are having a wonderful sunday. i am always just a pm a way.
btw...thank you for all your thoughtful and helpful pm's about my house. :hug:

Yes Mari,
I do tend to push myself...I should be doing more...I should be able to function at a higher level...I should work harder to make more money...I should ,should, should.
I am putting more pressure on myself and need to stop.
I guess I am pressuring my self to be "normal"...
"what the hello is normal for me?" I don't know anymore....
maybe I am the one in denial.....

frustrating and dissappointing

all I know is that I want to be well enough to be able to get up in the mornings again and go to the gym.
This is my goal.
bizi

I hope that I have not triggered anyone with all of this...
thank you my friends for supporting me.
(((HUGS)))
bizi:grouphug: