Thick a.m. Blood & MS
 

Yesterday Dr Oz said the reason why most heart attacks happen in the a.m. is due to thick blood when you awake. I said wait! Could this be why my hands/arms are so numb in the morning? And if some of have narrowed jugulars ect, that would sure explain it! So I went out today and bought asprin! I'll take 325mg at bedtime tonight and see what happens. There's actually a trial for asprin/MS a few times/day. My platelet count is 300+

That sounds like a lot of aspirin. Shouldnt you ask a doctor about how much to take before you start an aspirin regimen?

My dad was taking the larger aspirin (not baby aspirin) for a long time, and couldnt figure out why he was getting so many nosebleeds.

That is a lot of aspirin. Most heart patients take a baby aspirin each night which, I believe, is only 80 mg. I would be very very careful with that much aspirin. Please check with your doctor with that much aspirin. Aspirin can be rough on the stomach lining and can cause dangerous bleeding.

most folks use a baby asprin of 81mg, but some use an adult asprin which is 325mg. its not an unusual dose, but you should be aware of the side effects. it can cause tummy upsets, bleeding disorders, and so on. If you are going to be using it on a long term/daily basis, I would reccomend switching it up to a baby asprin, or snapping it in half. Most baby asprins now are safety coated so it dissolves in your gut, not in your tummy and that helps remove some bleeding risk from your tummy.

I hope it helps. :hug:

Thanks for the tip on coated asprin. 325 isn't that much. The trial might be 200mg 3x I forget.
So this morning my hands weren't more numb then usual but my chin while shaving wasn't feeling it. I hate MS. I'm going to continue the 325 every night till I see my Dr since I usually call the shots anyway (he has no problem with that). Nose bleed is a good sign you're blood's on the thin side. That's what I'll go by. I use a male part for testosterone level so nose bleed will be blood thickness barometer. When I get my Ty in a couple weeks I'll have him pull a quick sample. He does basic red white platelet count in office. Something to read while getting infused.

Hey what's ya'll platelet count? If you have low counts I could be barking up the wrong tree.

Eddie,

I wouldn't experiment with aspirin without asking your neuro about it. What if they have a problem getting the bleeding to stop after your infusion? Aspirin can cause lots of problems and it shouldn't be used unless your doctor knows about it.

If you're ever on steroids also, those can cause blood thinning too, and steroids also slow healing. If you're taking large doses of aspirin every day and then also getting steroids (not sure if you'd be doing that too) then you can really have problems with bleeding and healing of wounds.

Only had one round 3 doses IVSM ever so that's not a problem, testosterone's a hormone i've been taking for 3 years so that's no problem.

Besides, on the bottle it says "take 1 to 2 every xx hrs not to exceed 12 per day" so 1? come on 12 would kill a person if it was as dangerous as you's think and besides like i said...my blood's thick. I even take 2400mg fish oil/day. I smoke.

I guess I'm just putting the possibility of asprin helping out there. I'll look into asprin effect on platelets. The stomach is my only concern.

Looks like I might get 500th Lap in pool total for season. Completed 400 last week :) 20 today. I feel like crap, feel sick till I get in there. Come out a new person. Love it!

Fish oil also thins your blood. Aspirin will thin it more. It won't hurt to call in the morning just to check. I know of people who have bled to death because of overuse of aspirin. It doesn't take long to build up a high level in your blood either.

Please listen to what everyone else is saying. My blood platelets run on 100k on VERY good day - mostly they are around the 50-60 thousand mark. I know that if I take aspirin they will be at a very dangerous level. Unless you have a known heart condition, and are under doctor's instructions I would be very careful with this one.

Your platelets are at a very normal amount at the moment, but you should get a green light from your doctor first.

Lyn

I'd like to add to this discussion....

There was a newer study that found up to 70% of people were having brain bleeds from the cardiac doses of aspirin.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-04/h...e?_s=PM:HEALTH

small bleeds:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...J8tODMj1m26nRA

So one should be careful, consult your doctor and consider this new risk.

Boy, tough crowd :) Well I'll take everyone's advice partially. I'll take it every other night from now on. You's are right - baby steps. I just can't lose anymore feeling cause I don't have much more to lose. I still haven't rented to try before I buy a oxygen concentrator.

Looked at coated aspirin today. Forget that for the $ and chewables were right next to them which I was thinking about anyway - crush it and swallow it down with a couple glasses of water if the pill laying in stomach is what does the damage. Also saw 500mg's. The way you all scared me, the bottle should have skull & cross bones lol.

The bottle may say not to exceed 12 in a 24 hour period, but its not meant to be taken in that dose day after day, it can and frequently does cause bleeding. This is why most MDs want folks on the coated baby asprin of 81mg. Asprin has been a wonderful drug thru the years, and has definatly earned its place in the top ten wonders of the world, but it must be used with caution. You dont need a stroke, bleed, ulcer, or issues to become worse than they are. I personally dont think the 325 per day is an issue as long as you get the coated kind, and tell your MD you are taking it.

I hope it works for you. :hug:

Last night I didn't take the aspirin. I swear more of my head & face is numb. Tonight I'll be taking it. I'll get the coated 80mg next chance I get. If I crush the regular one, think it's easier on stomach?

If you're going to insist on taking the aspirin anyways, then take it with something like yogurt. Having food in your stomach might help protect your stomach lining.

if you take the coated kind, it wont break down till its in your intestine which has a much tougher lining and moves things along, instead of sitting in that acid bath that is your tummy. Having food in your tummy will help keep things moving tho.

How are you feeling on the lower dose?

So night before last I didnt take any and yesterday I swear I felt more numb. So I decided to go in pool and get closer to lap 500 and I got chilled. By evening I had 99.9 fever (haven't been sick in years) so I was in bed by 7 with the a/c off. Fever broke 2am and had to get up and put a/c back on cause I couldn't stop twisting in bed. I took aspirin last night to use it for fever and today I just have the normal slightly aches and head fog/hurt if I do much work. If platelet count is a way to tell blood thickness (is it?) i'd love to know everyones count. Like I said mines always above 300, close to 400 sometimes. Thats thousands I believe. Smoke 1 pack/day for 25yrs. I know I know but it's 1 of the few things I enjoy. I always joke with nurse saying yes I smoke so I won't bleed but for a few seconds after bloodtest. They smile, me too, but it's looking like thick blood isn't great for MS. My guess.

And also like I asked - if I crush the aspirin and wash it down, is that easier on lining?

No, I dont think crushing the aspirin would be easier on the lining in your stomach. Chewable aspirins are the only formulation that you're allowed to crush.

If it's extended release, dont crush it.

My aunt (a nurse practitioner) was telling me about aspirin the other night. She's got a great memory for medications. She said you actually have to be careful with large doses of aspirin, because it's metabolized in your liver. (it's excreted thru the kidneys tho) If you take too much, or if you're sensitive to aspirin you can get liver damage.

She also said that you have to be careful, and stop taking it, if you notice you're having breathing problems, or a weird pain in one of your arms. (cant remember which arm)

She was taking aspirin over the weekend, cant remember why she was, but she said she was taking the baby aspirin dose (81mg) and after the third dose (3 days) she was having breathing problems and her arm hurt really bad. Then she remembered she had an allergic reaction to a medication that has aspirin in it a few years ago. Apparently aspirin allergies are fairly common. (my mom has the allergy too)

I stopped the aspirin because i'm dizzy/short of breath since I got sick Tuesday and don't need to increase those effects. 1st time getting ill on Ty. Ty, C, Reb, whatever I always lose more feeling when sick. White cells? Anyway, case closed on aspirin till i'm better. At least I learned correct spelling of aspirin.

As for taking continuous doses of aspirin; you also need to watch for tolerance. You can build a tolerance to aspirin just like any drug. Then you will have to take even more should you have any headache or other pain for which you take aspirin. (You also do not want to mix the aspirin with ibuprofen, don't know why, I just know there are warnings on the bottle.

As for aspirin improving numbness, as you know, we all feel it is less than a desirable choice with serious negatives. But, if its working for you great. I'd still discuss with my docs.

Numb fingers are the pits!!:mad:

Stiffness anyone??
 

I don't remember Stiffness mentioned in any of the brochures on MS symptoms, but I understand its common.

I've been doing Yoga off and on for 15 years. While I'm certainly not the most flexible and will never be able to sit in the Lotus position, I can do the majority of the basic poses and get a lot out of it.

I noticed recently that I don't have the same flexibility as I did only a month ago! It seems every night my left side tightens up more. I can bend sideways at the hip on my left side and almost touch the floor. Bending to the right is quite different. I'm not even near the floor!

I keep hoping its temporary and will improve, but it has not. In fact, its gotten worse: first just my left shoulder, now my whole left side. My entire left side feels tight and shortened.

Other than Yoga and swimming, any ideas on keeping your flexibility?

Stiffness in MS is also called "spasticity".

I get that in my feet and legs. In my feet it makes my toes hurt and feel stiff. In my legs, it basically causes muscle spasms that give me Charley Horses From Hell while I'm sleeping. My feet feel like they're trying to kick me in the butt with my heels.

I also get the spasticity in my ribs. The ever infamous MS "Hug". It's a horrible symptom. It really caused me a lot of pain earlier this summer. Hated it! Literally felt like I had a giant python wrapped around my ribcage trying to squeeze me to death. Hurt like heck!

My aspirin saga
 

Not particularly related to MS, but I have another disease with high platelets and red cells, and I am supposed to take a Baby Aspirin a day.

However, even that hurt my stomach. I can get less symptoms if I powder the aspirin, mix it up in thick body cream, and rub it anywhere on my body.

We know this works because it did thin my blood enough so that when I had
acupuncture the needles made me bleed, which the acupuncturist said was
unusual. It happened every time I had the acupuncture. He said it meant by blood was thin.

If you take a thinner like aspirin you should take into account any other thinners you are on. These include Vitamin E, garlic pills, green tea. I find
I had to cut way back on green tea since I've been taking aspirin rubbed into skin.

My platelets are so high it would scare you, and I am threatened with Interferon as a possible remedy, (Intron A, not the INtron B which is given for MS). But they say it can cause flu like symptoms and depression bad enough to give suicidal thoughts. The cutting back of the thick blood can
reduce chance of stroke.

My arteries are clear, but I have microvascular problems in my toes. It
is called Erythromelalgia. My feet are numb and sometimes hurt a lot. I
fell down stairs in May and broke my kneecap in part because of this. Three
months in a rehab, and now home and very careful with stairs.

Blessings

Mariel

every now and again, my platelets go out of whack. just jump high for no reason. a couple of weeks go by, and back to normal they go. No one has ever been able to explain it. :confused:

Mariel that's a great idea! Topical!
I stopped using it since I got sick last Tuesday and after everyone drilled in my head it's like taking battery acid pills. Was all my mother gave me when child.

Back to thick a.m. blood. Does it make sense that thicker morning blood (or thick blood in general) would aggravate a ccsvi condition therefore thinning it would show improvement? How could it not.

So let's have some neurotalk's members platelet count. I'm 320-400k range. WIll get it checked again Tues after my vein's prepped for Tysabri.

Looking through my XP harddrive, reading notes I had saved. Had to paste it here cause I say it's related-

In 2002, neurologist Dr. Scott Zamvil of UC San Francisco gave atorvastatin (Lipitor) to about 100 mice with an MS-like condition. The drug alleviated symptoms and kept the mice from getting worse.
In an upcoming trial of 152 patients at 14 medical centers, people in the early stages of MS will be given Lipitor and tracked to determine whether the drug can slow or even halt the disease.

my platelets
 

My platelets range from 850,000 to over a million. My red cells are also high, going up to 46.5 if I don't have a phlebotomy once in a while (every few months). White cells are only slightly and insignificantly high.

Eddie, your platelets are in what is considered a normal range. If they go up to 450, then you can ask about testing to see if there is a reason other than
inflammation. A standard CBC blood test should do the trick.

My platelets were listed as High when they were at 450,000 every test for two
years. I asked why, and was told it was Essential Thrombocythemia. This
was changed to Polycythemia Vera when red cells also started to rise.

A few people have symptoms even at your level, if they have ET or PV, but
it is more likely the numbness is due to...what was that again?....MS?

But I know by now that I and most docs are ignorant in many ways. Have
a blood test and ask what your platelet level means, and go to a hematologist if you want a more closely focused answer. EVen hemos disagree about what is normal, so expect the same difference of opinion one finds among neurologists.

wow i had no idea blood platelet levels are involved with ms. i am a total newb about it though, i have lots to learn i guess. stiffness in my right arm and hand is always worse in the morning for me as well.

btw people of earth,hello!

To Clark
 

Clark, I do not know if people with MS have or do not have platelet problems.
Mine are high due to another disease.

However, Dr. Swank, one of the premier researchers on MS, believed we had
sticky blood. I think he thought it was the red cells rather than the platelets which stuck together and didn't move as well as those of others.

He tested my blood years ago, before I had Polycythemia Vera, the disease which has raised my platelets and red cells. He said my blood cells (I presume
red) moved slower than average, and that meant my previous dx of MS was
correct. He believed that eating saturated fat slowed the movement, and put his patients on the Swank Diet, which is one very low in saturated fat. There are two books on it he wrote with his nurse, available at most libraries, or at least they used to be. Well worth reading to find an interesting theory about
MS....I would say, now, a theory applying only to SOME with MS, which seems to have different types.

The Swank diet was VERY helpful in lowering symptoms for me. I can't say it
would do that for you, but I would certainly read the book. Several others on
this forum are in favor of the Swank. I have stuck to it for well over twenty
years, the only exception to it being that I do have an egg yolk almost every
morning. He suggested we have only two eggs per week. I have almost no
red meat--and I had left eating red meat even before I met Swank, as I didn't feel good after eating it.

It could be that there is an inter-relationship among diseases not recognized
by standard medicine. We should have been researchers ourselves in order to even start to understand!

Mariel

More: When I tried the Cave Man diet, which was urged on the old Braintalk
forum years ago, I got into horrid pain within four days. That diet had me cut
grains, add more animal protein (meat, fowl) and some fat. There were some supplements involved but I forget what they were. Milk was not allowed.

For my type of MS this was a disaster! So little is known.

I reduced pain quickly by going onto my usual diet, which was low fat, with grains, dairy, low fat poultry, fruit, and a small amount of beans such as pinto and northern. I do not do well with garbanzo beans or legumes, but
some people do. Grains and beans/legumes form a complete protein. But I did not stick wholly to vegetarian protein, and had milk, one egg a day, and low fat (white meat) poultry. I became very creative with the crock pot, creating nicely spiced stews of various kinds. I do well with most spice, such
as curry, Italian, French, etc. No MSG or "Natural Flavors".

Sticky blood, thick blood, slow/hard flowing blood all sounds good to me. I originally was focused on platelets but you're right Mariel. It can be a # of things. Lipitor they studied is for cholesterol which might mimic your Swank diet. Obviously something is causing our brains/nerves to die and lack of flow/nutrients/oxygen from thick blood or narrowed veins sure would make sense. Plus the spent/bad stuff getting left behind ontop of that.

We have to figure this MS out. We need to research and compile what exactly Rebif, Avonex, Copaxone, Tysabri, Solumedrol, Ampyra do. However they may a after-the-fact compound. What originally caused ---- to happen.

thanks for the info, Mariel.
Eddie, when i was diagnosed i found it odd that the only other person i had ever known that had it worked in the same area as me in a semiconductor factory, and we were constantly exposed to chemicals that would leak in the "chase" area behind our work area. i wonder if it wasn't chemical exposure that caused it? wild guess i know.

i'd really like to know the cause of this, my diagnosis was such a shock to me, i thought i had a slipped disc or something...

Asked my hema/onc before Tysabri today about aspirin effect on platelets. He said it makes them less sticky. I said like Plavix? He said yes, just not as much. Plavix is stronger.
Asked him if it reduces platelet count/production. He said no. Just less sticky.
Asked him if there's a test for blood thickness? He said none in specific.

clarkstar - chemicals & stress is a major suspect to me. I was exposed to both when I moved. MS 1 yr later. I used pesticides like water because the house I bought had florida carpenter ants that bite. Researching pesticides when I was searching for the strongest ones, I learned they work on their nervous system!

I read people have 2 genes (PON1) for metabolizing pesticides. If you have 2 of the good type, you pee it out. 1 of each and it's iffy. 2 of the ones that don't allow your bod to metabolize pesticides causes a buildup. My father can almost drink it, my mother's eyes get itchy when peeling non organic carrots. Organic she doesn't itch.

Almost a year later. I took the little ones (81mg's) 2x/day for months. I lowered it to 1x/day cause my stoma (intestine) seemed to bleed easily while cleaning, prepping, applying ostomy barrier.
I stopped taking the final 81mg's a few months ago after starting Trental 2x/day cause I felt a bit dizzy and have low blood psi as it is. The Trental was to help blood cells get into tiny areas if circulation is issue. MS is still progressing however. After reading thru some of my replies, i'm starting the 81mg's as of tonight. They're coated & store brand's cheap.