childhood virus-latent disease-molecular mimicry
 

OK, I just posted a new thread, that I must have somehow sent to cyberspace.

I was researching the Rituximab-PML link....that is scary enough, but I got sidetracked onto this.

During the period between 1950-1963, 98 million people were accidentally infected with SV40, a Simian virus, when they took their oral polio vaccine. Now the incidence of lymphoproliferative disorders and some rare tumors is skyrocketing....and SV40 has been isolated in tumors. Apparently there is a drift that SV40 may be at work. Also, what kills me, is they used live virus that apparent was INTENDED to shed to non-innoculated people and immunize them too. Now, I live thru that period, and likely got SV40, since my state was included in the list.

Anyway, the other virus was of course JC. JC is present in up to 90% of us as a latent virus. JC is what causes PML. I read an Italian study that found PML in 2.89 of the 821 NHL subjects treated with Rituxan. Also there was also a citation that stated PML occurs in Lupus at a rate of 1/4000, regardless of treatment. (?? doesn't make a ton of sense to me given AI disease is kind of the 'opposite of HIV)) That makes me wonder why they immunosuppress for this disease, which makes me wonder if this is behind what appears to be a real reticence of rheumatologists to do anything but prescribe Lyrica or Cymbalta.

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/101/18/1288.full

The last virus was BK and I didn't read up on that yet....I had enough for one day.:(

Glenn?? Have you researched this in terms of molecular mimicry?? Any one else??

They are poking holes in my grandson with all the vaccines...my son who served overseas has not been the same since he was also ambushed with needles.....I am NOT against vaccines, but....do they know what they are doing with them and these -mab drugs??? EEEESH. (not to mention my ivig....ugh)

I don't think all is viral mimicry.

Some viruses stay latent in the body... Epstein Barr and Herpes Simplex and Herpes Zoster, and many others. Our immune systems keep them in check, but they can erupt anytime. Drugs that suppress the immune system may activate them. Chemo drugs may activate them, aging or stress may activate them.
Alot depends on your genetic ability to cope with them.

The shingles virus (Herpes Zoster) lives in the dorsal root ganglia of the spinal cord and waits for opportune times to activate. Most of the research has been done on it.

There are even studies showing virus incorporation into the epigenetic (or so called junk) DNA in humans and being passed down thru the chromosomes in many generations to offspring!

It can get pretty complicated! Mimicry is only one form of attack.

Glenn will come on here I hope to explain molecular mimicry in more detail.

Vaccines however, may in some people with genetic inclinations, create a situation where antibodies are formed that react to the adjuvants in the vaccines, which then attack the recipient. Squalene, is one adjuvant that has been shown in animals to cause autoimmune attack.

I know polio was awful, (my friend survived it, but with sequelae) but what on earth were they thinking?? What an unmitigated disaster. Did any one ever tell us we may have received this? I can't remember a bruha.

Also, every article I read on PML gives me a different statistic on incidence.

PML is very controversial now, because of the new drug being trialed in MS.

If you go there to the MS forum and search you will find many posts on it.

I see that, but, apparently not every one that dies of it, ends up with that as diagnosis....and it is no wonder, docs don't want to fill out the adverse reaction paperwork, and potentially open up a can of ligitation worms, if that is possible with drugs like rituxan.

I see that it is being trialed in MS...it appears to be 'good' for everything...vitamin R.

How can one study say 2.89/1000 and another one article say 3/100,000?

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy buff, but, really, were these drugs not intended for life or death? I mean, if I come down with lymphoma (which is a distinct possibility), then, fine if other things fail. Thing is, people are taking this for other reasons. One researcher who started the RADAR system to track this drug, said, only when all else fails, basically, life or death.

My doc brought it up, and I am going to pass.

Also, another interesting fact, Risperdal and other antipsychotics appear to block JC entry into the brain....great if you can take these drugs. I can't....due to some dopamine disorder=movement disorder. Makes me wonder if that increases succeptibility to PML. I know that is a jump...but, I wonder if that has been looked at.:confused:

Oh, and I don't think they should be pulled, because for some people they work...I just wonder if they should be used as quickly as they are.

As I understand it, the PML virus JC is often acquired early in life and is already in the brain. The studies about the antipsychotics are pretty out of date, and I don't think pertain to most people.

You have to really use critical thinking when reading about this.
PML is showing up in those people using the new biological agents for inflammation. But even then it is a very small percentage who actually develop it.

Part of that is the problem. If you die of lymphoma, did you die of CNS complications of lymphoma or PML. Did you die of "Lupus Cerebritis" or cns complications of MS rather than PML. There is so little that really differentiates it.

Yes, up to 90% of us are infected with JC. JC it ubiquitous.

Maybe people don't need such large dosing as to annihilate the CD20 count. These are valid studies, I have been reading. I am trying to find the one in the financial realm, (which is where you get facts), that states the age, gender and diagnosis of each victim. I read it but didn't save it.

The stats are recorded here and there, as for example, 3rd Lupus patient, or 3rd RA patient. Total it looks like 57 out of several hundred thousand, but I can't find the total incidence, or the total times it was administered.

I AM critical, and the profit motive really makes me even more critical. When a drug becomes "appropriate" for so many diseases....hmm. When we are producing an HIV like B cell depletion in people suffering from chronic, not potentially terminal disease.....I dunno.

I would like a credible risk versus benefit ratio.

This is the guy that stated we need to be more mindful that these drugs are not for every one suffering degenerative maladies, basically.

Dr. Charles Bennett and his innovative RADAR Project (Research on Adverse Drug Events and Reports).

My husband has a coworker with MS, and in 2 years she has gotten so ill, I can't believe it...I have never seen a case progress this fast. She is on Avonex not ritux, and also she has been on steroids. I have some real concerns for her. She has white spots all over her brain.

I have another friend, a very good friend with Sarc, who went the old course with pred and mtx, and despite very advanced Sarc, is doing well.

Every one is individual. I would love to stop this 'stuff' I have going on, but, knowing me, and my luck...I dunno. Is it worth trading a life, even if compromised, for the fear or risk of PML....eesh. Then again, mine is slowly progressive....not like our friend with MS.

Ritux is not for an over-informed worry wart.

This is why Rituxan is often denied by some insurance plans.

They will not allow something that will cost catastrophic amounts of money from medical intervention, down the line.

Patients often moan and complain about insurances but in this case, they may know "best".

There was a biological agent recently removed by the FDA, that was targeting psoriasis.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/healt...-reason-444228

I don't know if this is a problem of molecular mimicry per se--
 

--as it is, more simply, of immune system suppression allowing nasties to slip through that would otherwise be kept in check.

I certainly understand the logic behind immune suppression therapy for autoimmune disease. But, as you guys have pointed out, there is certainly the possibility of knocking off enough T or B cells that way that one can get weird, unusual infections.

There's certainly precedence for this--organ transplantation, for instance, almost always involves the need for immune suppression, and in some cases--too many, probably--opportunistic infection is a major complicatino. Transplant patients tend to have to find shingles eruptions, for instance, and in a number of cases Epstein-Barr reactivations--and Epstein Barr has been found in some cancers such as nasopharyngeal carcinoma (uncommon except in some people of Asian decent) and Burkitt's lymphoma (uncommon except in some peopel of sub-Saharan African decent); there are people not usually in the demographic for these who've developed them post immunosuppresion therapy . . .

Where is the list of states???

I think the Simian virus and others are listed at the CDC website.

Give that a try.

Michigan had the honor of having the first trials of INJECTABLE polio vaccine... and my mother took me there for it. It was 3 shots in all. I recall because it gave me hives. I think the injectable is more implicated with the Simian viruses than the oral form. But I am not 100% positive on that one.

It was the oral....

It is interesting how we genetically engineered ourselves.

And as my husband said, odds are odds....it doesn't matter if 1 in a million are the odds, if you are the 1, it isn't so good. I would have to be at wits end to take the risk. I am simply not ready for it now, and will have to wait for the miracle drug.

I wonder what the success of Rituxan is in PN? I am still ENA (SSA-SSB) negative and am not ready to jump into the Sjogren's basket yet. (Oh, how I have changed thru the years---from wanting any diagnosis, to wanting the exact diagnosis.)

more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

I suspect I would test positive for this virus, if tested. I had quite a reaction to the 3rd booster shot. I was around 8 to 10 yrs old, and remember it clearly.

Another interesting (and frightening) link:

http://www.rense.com/general3/polio.htm

I would test positive for SV40 too. I remember the lines to get the oral, and I distinctly remember a shot too. SV40 hasn't been implicated as a culprit in -mab drug use. So far, JC virus is the one that they feel causes the PML. The odds are we carry JC.

If you were born after 1963, you would NOT have gotten these vaccines.

Also, yes, as Glenn said, there are cases such as transplant and life threatening lymphoma, that these drugs mean the difference between life and death. In that case, of course, one would risk this. Chronic pain and some loss of function, is not a reason to risk a fatal infection, at least not now, for me. There are ways to treat chronic pain. Autonomic Dysfunction is more difficult, but still, not enough reason for me to consider a -mab, right now, and my quality of life isn't all that good for my age. My disease interferes with everything. The thought of having come into an exam room and tell me I have PML is more than I can deal with....if nature causes me to get something like that fine, but not by my own hand.

I am not going to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, yet.

Every one has a different risk tolerance.

I would like to know how many people died within 1 year of Rituximab discontinuation, for any reason. That may be an interesting stat. (Yes, I imagine it could be high, since many of these people had life threatening disease).

I just wonder if we target a specific disease at times, without looking at ramifications.

When I saw that SV40 thing, it just made me kind of wonder. Yes, we stopped Polio, but, we may have caused many other things....Just interesting....the 'targeted approach'.

OK here is the story more or less....now NOTE this is not an unbiased web site, so, while I am looking for more unbiased info, I will post this and you can look around for yourself as to what you find.

http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html

Also, it was BOTH injectable AND oral according to this. Which means pretty much the entire baby boom generation got this vaccine. I don't believe all of it was contaminated? I had read an article that mentioned the states, and I will try to find that. Keep in mind, not all stuff on the net is true....but, one has to wonder who to believe.

I would love to say I believe the health care industry would not do 'bad' things, but I will say two words, Guatamala and Tuskegee.

While SV40 was not 'intentional', one is lead to wonder how much of the surge in illness, especially 'idiopathic' is really due to somebody's brain child. Even a well intentioned effort not considering the profit motive, can oft times be diasterous.

It sounds like the SV40 debacle was unneccessary....how could the researchers not fathom that simian viruses could be transmitted to human, and why did they fail to act when it was discovered, and why is there not a concerted effort to reach the 'victims' and assess their health status?

Yes, Polio is bad stuff.....disabling and deadly...however, my question is, could it have been stopped without adding the simian virus to the mix? This is all an interesting concept to ponder, but, alas, it is water under the bridge, I guess.

Has SV40 or any of the other childhood viruses been examined as a cause of small fiber neuropathy? It seems like there is a surge in autoimmune diseases as well. All they appear to have looked at is cancer (which does include that strange link from AI to lymphoproliferative disease).

I am really not up on any of this, and just happened to find this in my research....it is rather disconcerting:(....anyway....

One has to ask, what were they thinking??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39456324/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskege...lis_experiment

BTW, there is a TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS amount of garbage on this subject on the net (I don't think this is Armageddon)....if you ARE interested in this subject, you will really have to dig for minimally credible sources.

Again, I am not anti-vaccine. SV40 was a accident. I am not against immune based therapies, not at all. I get one.

I just hope we have considered what we may activate.:confused:

And it does make one wonder about latent viruses.

This is very long and somewhat technical, but seems understatedly credible. Basically says, we don't know what we don't know, until we know it (or something like that).

http://www.infectagentscancer.com/content/2/1/13

Wonderful, I am a Michiganian, only been here on Long Island for 6 yrs in Dec.:(

Most of this stuff sits here latent unless we poke it with a stick:Poke:.....moral of the story, don't mess with Mother Nature.....:o

I am inclined to stick to the 'A' category of drugs, aspirin, antibiotics and ambien.

My aches and pains seem tolerable compared to what others must face in a battle for life and death. I don't say that lightly, since I feel like someone put me in a bag and smacked the bag with a sledge hammer to make me into mosaic tile for their backsplash. What doesn't feel broken, feels very sharp. I don't feel all that well, but I am reasonably assured of living quite a while, feeling like this, provided I don't complain to a physician.

My cardio was treating my atrial arrhythmias of which I have 3....tried cardizem, and my calcium dropped, tried a beta blocker and they got worse. So, I am told to start Flecainide. I look this up. Black box warning....causes increased risk of death in people with atrial fib and dRTA...and a few other conditions I have. I call them back and they tell me my arrhythmias are not lethal. So, I say, "let me get this straight, I am taking this drug for......????' They say, 'symptoms'. Symptoms? Really? That kind of risk to possibly alleviate symptoms. I will deal with the palpitations, syncope, etc, and keep my risks lower....sheesh. (I am not convinced they are not more of an issue, but, given the cure, risk versus benefit ratio is not in my favor.)

I guess if one complains to a physician, they are compelled to make it better, even if it is the kiss of death?? Ugh. I will keep my heart quivering....it beats a standstill...thank you very much!! And I have learned, never, ever to complain again.

Now back to the election results....or should I watch 'Biggest Loser'? Should I take a poll???

In the poll, I would have to say watching the elections is about watching "The Biggest Losers"!!!!!:p