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Consult with Oral Surgeon
Well I went to the dentist Wednesday to have my teeth cleaned and x-rayed. My dental hygenist was concerned about the abcess and the pain I have been having which seems like forever. She asked me when my consult was and I told her friday she said hold on a minute and I will see if he can do your consult today, they share the same office building. He came over looked at my x-rays and did my consult. He agreed with me that I might need a stronger antibiotic and prescribed me amoxicillin which I have taken plenty of times thru the years with no problems. He poked and prodded on the lump and when I asked him if I should be concerned about it spreading to jawbone he wouldn't answer the question instead said well when you come in Friday morning and I take the teeth out the infection will go away... Reallly not an answer. We argued about when I seen him in June and he pulled two opposite molars on the right side and I woke up as he was pulling the last one, he said "you may have woke up but you didn't feel anything because you were numb" I said "No I wasn't numb I felt every nerve with that tooth being ripped out" I then told him I had been shaking and sobbing with the pain he tried to explain that away as a side effect from the anesthesia. I then again denied that! He finally looked at my chart and decided the problem was all the pain medication I'm on for the trigeminal neuralgia. He said I had became intolerant to the medication and that was why I didn't stay under. all I know is I'm tired of all the excuses, this is now the 6th or 7th excuse about me waking up. We then proceeded to get into an argument about the trigeminal neuralgia and he tried to pull the superior act with me which I promptly shut down. I know what I have been thru and what I have done to try to find pain relief and I don't need him try to make me feel like an incompetent or worse a liar. He also placed derision on the local anethesist I went to in Sept. 2006 for nerve blocks which didn't work. I also see him for pain management. He implied the man doesn't know what he's doing. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black! If you can tell I'm aggravated then you are correct. Anyways after the consult my dentist came in when I asked him about the possibible problems of the abcess being in my jawbone and he totally ignored the question. He did his thing and felt around on the lump too. I left and made an appt. for Monday to get the teeth extracted. I filled my prescription and started it. I was in pain that night I don't know if it was from them messing around with the lump or having to talk. I found talking makes the pain worse. I was up all night with it. The next day I noticed my tongue had fissures on it and was very sore, it felt like I had scalded it. My lips were drying out, and they were burning also. I did notice my lower lip felt swollen. I spent the day just miserable between the pain and burning. I asked my cousin if I could possibly be having a reaction to the antibiotic even tho I have always taken it with no problem, she felt it was possible so I discontinued it. As I was brushing my teeth that night before bedtime I thought it could be the tootpaste. I had just had it filled a week prior and it is a generic for Colgate Prevident 5000. I have a real sensitivity to toothpaste and mouthwash. So I quit using it instead I'm using my grandaughter's toothpaste right now. I found some Bacitracin ointment yesterday evening and I have been using it on my lips and it's helping. I still don't know for sure what caused the reaction since I pretty much quit all triggers but it is improving. The pain kept me up all night Thurs. and Fri. finally right after I ate breakfast Saturday morining I suddenly felt all the pain dissipate. i don't know if the pressure was alieved or what but I was pain free all day yesterday until I went to bed last night and the pain is back. But I did have some relief after wanting to rip my face off forever. I'm still worried about the surgery tomorrow altho I know Bryanna is right that I will have to wait and see if it does any damage to the trigeminal nerve, I just need these teeth out. I'm extremely worried that I'm going to wake up while he's yanking and it's enough to keep me on edge. Whew I typed alot. I have been so tired and in pain for so long that if this soves some of that problem then great I just hope this old man doesn't make things worse for me.
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Robyn....
Did you have the teeth out on monday???? How are you??? Bryanna Quote:
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Yes I went Monday and the man mangled me! First he completely missed the vein in my arm and no one has problems with finding my vein, he did and I got a nice long black bruise and it's sore. I think he pinched my lips with the insturments or something because I have a blister on the bottom and upper lip and it is very annoying. The pain was tolerable that day and it hasn't been to bad the last few days except for both sides of my jaw where I assume they held me while he pulled and dug. I am on clindamyacin now since we aren't sure if I had a reaction to the amoxicillin. I called his office Tuesaday to find out when the abcess was supposed to go down and when I should be worried, they told me give it 5 days and if it's still swollen to contact them. Today is day 3 and it is very swollen whick I figured it would be and tender. I guess I'll be taking it one day at a time. Tho I do wonder if something may be going on as I just don't feel right, kinda achy and tired. Will keep you posted and thank you for asking. My family could care less and it makes me feel better knowing someone asks after me.:):)
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Don't know what's going on but when I got up today the pain was really bad. I had to take a dialdud and normally I don't need anything other than tylenol. Still pretty swollen on jawlines and down throat also I still have the lump in my mouth it hasn't changed.
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Hi Robyn,
I'm so sorry you have had such bad dental experiences with this dentist! I would expect the area to be swollen for few days but by the weekend it should be subsiding. You said you were swollen along your jawline.... ok... but down your throat?? Do you feel that the swelling has traveled down your throat? If so, then you may want to call the dentist in the morning to tell him that. You have a very severe infection and I am not surprised that you are not feeling well. Hopefully the clinda will help clear it up. But seriously, if your throat is getting swollen, then call your dentist. Please keep in touch with us here... Bryanna Quote:
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Update
Well it's Monday and officially one week since my oral surgery to extract two molars on my left side. I have completed my cycle of clindamycin and the infection in my jaw has not changed at all. My gums are still painful to the touch and the sutures are in no way ready to dissolve. I was thinking when I had previous extractions that the sutures were ready to come out by now but I could be wrong. I called his office and he wanted to see me today but it wasn't possible for me so I have an appt. with him Wednesday. I have been on three different antibiotics for a month now and nothing has touched it. I'm wondering what he's going to do. He's pretty scary in the way he thinks so it could be way out there...Any thoughts on what he might do to me this time? Or what I may suggest to him? Thanks!
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Hi Robyn,
Depending on what the dentist sees clinically.... he may also take some xrays... will determine what further treatment may need to be done. These are some questions that I normally address with patients who are not healing well.... Do you smoke, drink alcohol or use drugs in the methadone family? Do you take medications that you need to chew? Are you under a lot of stress? Do you have an eating disorder in which you purge every day? Are you malnourished? Have you been rinsing with warm salt water? Are you rinsing with anything else?? Are you brushing your other teeth? Are you avoiding that area when you chew? Do you have a fever or feel malaise... any nausea? Please let your dentist know if any of those things pertain to you. Sometimes when oral antibiotics are not able to take care of an infection, they have to be administered intravenously. When given through an IV, the antibiotic bypasses the digestive tract which makes the antibiotic work more effectively. He may or may not suggest this to you. I am a little worried about you ~:-<.... please keep in touch with us here. Bryanna Quote:
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Thanks Bryanna, no I have no problems you listed and I have done everything I am supposed to I guess I just have a stubborn infection or my immune system is not up to par. I know this has been very aggravating! I told a friend today that I thought he might have to try i.v antibiotics on me since I'm having no luck with oral ones. But he is a strange man so it's hard to tell what he'll do. I had x-rays taken the previous Wednesday when I had my teeth cleaned, you could see the pocket of infection on them altho to my untrained eye it didn't look that big or serious. I'm renconsidering that line of thought tho. Lol! Sorry I have to joke about it or I will be stressed. As far as any secondary symptons I've only noticed besides the tenderness and swelling is fatigue. No fever or nausea just don't want to do anything but then again that's probably not new either. Oh I have a different question for you, I have noticed that my right side now that I have to chew on it is sore. Ihad the bottom mollars removed on it back in June and I hadn't chewed on it and I figured the gum was tender because it hadn't been used to being used as a food grinder so to speak. Also the jawline is sore to the touch still and I assume it is from the assistants holding my jaw down while he did my surgery last Monday. I don't know I do know I feel like a complainer and it is embarrassing to post every little pain I'm having. I'm used to having to suck it up with the Trigeminal Neuralgia but I also know things seem a little weird right now and when I first was sick with TN I needed to tell everyone all the symptoms so I could get a correct diagnosis. Please don't think I'm a malingerer just needing some answers. Thank you again Bryanna! Will let you know what he says Wednesday and I also see my dentist again that day to have a couple of cavities filled and I will let him know what's going on too.
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Hi Robyn,
All of your questions are valid.... and like you, I ask alot of questions until I am comfortable with the answers. I have seen too many people misdiagnosed who were hesitant to question anything. It disturbs me that this dentist is rough with you and that you are so leary of having him take care of you. I understand your predicament and I feel really bad that people often have no choice but to settle for what their insurance dictates as far as who they can and can't see. I deal with that situation every day and have personally experienced it myself. So I truly understand. Hopefully he will be less apathetic to your situation at this point. Because of the long term infection and also the numerous antibiotics you have taken... yes, your immune system is not up to par at this point. So that may be a couple of reasons why you are not healing well. Are you taking vitamins.... how about a probiotic every day?? You mentioned that xrays were taken a few days prior to your extractions and it showed the pocket of infection....radiographic pathology of the jawbone that indicates an infection means the infection has been there a long time and that it has entered the jawbone. The oral surgeon should have debrided (removed) that area of infection along with some of the necrotic bone. If he didn't do that and/or if the area was not kept very sterile during the surgery and/or if the antibiotics were not able to kill off the various strains of bacterial infection... then the infection will proliferate to other areas. So an xray of that area may be wise to see if that pocket of infection is still present and/or has changed. Don't be hesitant to insist on an xray... he may say it's not necessary because it's too early to see bone healing.......that is somewhat true however, he cannot tell if infection has spread, etc without the xray. With regard to the right side of your jaw hurting... that would be normal if it is where you are doing the majority of your chewing. I know it's hard to stay on a soft food diet but it may be your best bet until this infection subsides. And yes, it could be sore from the assistant holding it but generally when a patient is put to sleep, the jaw is clamped open rather than the assistant holding it open. But who knows how this office does it! Robyn... I don't think you are a complainer at all! You have every right to be concerned and I will help you as much and as often as I can =)) Look forward to hearing what the dentist says on wednesday! Bryanna Quote:
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Ok Bryanna heres the scoop, I seen him yesterday and he took another panoramic he looked at it and said it looked fine however he does see some inflammation in the gum area and of course you can see and feel the lump. He said he doesn't know what it is he doesn't think it's pus but he did put me on Clindamycin 300mgs and Flagyll 500mgs for a week and I'm to come back next Wedns. If the lump hasn't went down he wants to do some exploratory surgery and see what he can see. I'm not to keen on it but if it doesn't resolve I have no choice. I was wondering if I could see an ent for that? As you know I'm not comfortable with him. Also will this surgery be billed to my dental or medical insurance? I do know one thing tho, these antibiotics are killing me! I have been on probiotics for awhile but my stomache is still tore up. I'm giving it til tomorrow when he will be in to see if things right themselves. I hate to stop them and then definitely have to have the surgery. I also have been taking prenatel vitamins for years. So I am trying to keep everything on track but boy these antibiotics are a bear! He did say there was a possibility there was necrosis of the bone even tho the x-rays showed the bone was clean of infection. Believe me when it comes to x-rays nothing ever shows up even when there is a problem. Don't know why I have such luck but I do. I also seen my dentist and I asked the girl to grind off some sealant that had dripped down behind my bottom tooth where I have a permanent retainer. What happens? The retainer pops off cause of the drill and now she needs to put a new one on. Of course she couldn't get the wire to bend correctly so they had to take an impression and I will have it put back on next Wednesday. Never simple. Oh and as for the pain in the opposite jaw I believe it's from the clamp, I had a previous extraction and after the bruising came out you could see fingerprints along my jawline that time. There was no fingerprints so I would say a clamp this time. I know I will be glad when all this is over
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Hi Robyn,
I'm concerned that this dentist doesn't know what he's doing... seriously!! If he is an oral surgeon then he has seen this situation countless times.... how come he cannot diagnose it?? You asked if an ENT could take care of this.... I don't think so because it's definitely dental related. I guess the best thing to do right now is to keep your mouth very clean, keep rinsing with warm salt water several times a day. I know that the antibiotic can cause alot of havoc with the intestines.... make sure to take your probiotic one hour prior or 2 hours after your antibiotic so they dont' interfere with each other. If you are taking Culturelle probiotic or most other ones for that matter, you can double the dosage while you are on the antibiotic. If you should develop any signs of blood in your bowel movements, then you should call the dentist asap and stop the antibiotics. Why do you take prenatal vitamins? They are not meant to be taken unless you are pregnant because the potency of those supplements is geared toward a pregnant woman's needs only. Have you tried any others?? Bryanna Quote:
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Hi Bryanna, I would say the surgery is definitely on now, I had to quit taking the antibiotics yesterday evening. They were wreaking havoc on my stomache, probiotics or not. I slept an hour and a half last nite due to my stomache feeling so bloated that it woke me up. Ummm Yeah the man scares me alot with his ignorance. He has been an oral surgeon for 30 years and I agree with you that he should know what he's doing but well there you go. I have another question for you, when he mentioned surgery he never said if I would be put under or given a local which is it normally? I absolutely postively can NOT do a local on that side due to the Trigeminal Neuralgia and if I am to be sedated then I need to round up a driver, he won't put me under unless the driver is sitting in the waiting room. I was chastised and berated several times by one of his assistants when I had the extractions done two weeks by telling my daughter to come an hour later to pick me up so she wouldn't have to sit and wait. It was fine last June when he did extractions on the right side but this time they had a fit. I had to sit and wait that morning until my daughter got there before they took me back which was fine but then I argued with the assistant before I was put under. Lol I've never seen a practice so hellbent on making everything your fault and making sure you know it!!
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Hi Robyn,
Did you call the dentist and tell him you stopped the antibiotic? IF he is going to do the surgery to explore that swollen area, it is important to be on an antibiotic before, during and afterwards. So he needs to be informed of your decision to stop it or it could delay things quite a bit. I understand the antibiotic is causing intestinal distress and I don't blame you for not taking it. But at this point, any oral antibiotic is going to cause the same reaction so the dentist might prescribe IV antibiotics at this point. Evidently, your intestinal flora was out of whack to begin with and then several rounds of antibiotics just exaggerated the problem. Are you still taking the probiotic? What brand is it and how often are you using it? As far as the surgery... if you are going to have IV sedation, you would have to arrange that ahead of time with the office so they can give you the appropriate amount of time for your appointment. Also, it is common practice to not start a patients surgery unless their "ride" is present in the office. I'm sorry you are having such problems ....... when do you see him next? Bryanna Quote:
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I do believe he scheduled me in a slot to allow time for surgery Wednesday. I overheard him talking to the assistant who did the scheduling. As for having a driver I have no problem with having someone there but I didn't need someone berating me about it. Being told once was plenty. I just remembered tonite something he said to me last Wednesday that ties into "it's my fault" program he and his staff adhere to. He was going over my medications and made the remark "Well it's no wonder you aren't healing with all thes pain meds you take." Ok, I take an anti-seizure med and a muscle relaxer for the TN. Not a really huge laundry list of meds I don't think. I used to be on a whole lot more but I culled that way down due to side effects.
As for the stomache issue, It didn't really get bad until yesterday evening and he won't be in the office until Monday. I will have to wait until then to tell him. I agree with you on that I think I was having stomache issues before the antibiotics but it is way worse now. I am very uncomfortable with the pain and bloating. I have been taking Zantac, eating antacids and swigging Pepto. Nothing is giving me any relief. The probiotic I am taking is called Sustenex I think, I've taken two today after reading your last post that I could double up. Tomorrow I am going to buy some yogurt to eat also even tho I'm not a fan I can manage it if it will help. Almost forgot my appt. is at 3:00 on Wednesday. |
Hey Robyn,
I'm sorry the dental office is treating you so badly. They sound very disrespectful :-(( I know you are very uncomfortable and desperately want to feel better. If it were me, I would change the probiotic to Culturelle because the Sustenex does not provide you with the "lactobacilli" bacteria which needs to be replenished anytime you are on an antibiotic. Here is the website: http://www.culturelle.com/about_culturelle/what_is_lgg The other thing is... zantac, pepto, antacids are actually creating additional digestive issues because they are interfering with the natural production of digestive acids which you need to help balance your intestinal flora. Your stomache issues are not acid related.... they are bacteria related. So it is imperative to replenish the good bacteria called lactobacillus. In case you didn't know... yogurt is an overly processed food that is very sensitive to varying temperatures. This means that with most brands, by the time you purchase the yogurt, there is little to no live bacteria remaining. It probably won't help you at this point so why suffer through eating it....yuk. What will help is for you to alter your diet because the bad bacteria in your gut feeds off of various types of food. If you google candida or yeast free diet you will get a general idea of what foods to avoid and what foods to eat. I know this is really hard..... I'm so sorry. So many factors involved and nothing seems to be going right. Please try to stay optimistic about the eventual outcome! Keep in touch with us .....ok ;) Bryanna Quote:
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Wow thanks for all that info! I had been wondering if all stomache meds may actually be causing problems and I'm glad you confirmed it could also be a culprit. The yogurt well YEEHAW! I can occasionally eat some but it's not something I enjoy eating on a regular basis. I will check out the diet as it is definitely worse after I eat and especially after dinner.
After reading your last post I called his office on a whim and he does have an answering service set up. I called around 9pm and he promptly called back I explained my issues and he wanted me to discontinue the Clindamycin and go back on Flagyl and see if I can tolerate it. He said if I continued with problems to give him a call. I was so rattled I completely forgot about asking him about the surgery. He did want me to call Monday morning and let him know how the Flagyl was doing, hopefully I remember to ask then. I will try to get the probiotic you recommended tomorrow, we had a terrible snowstorm here and our roads are still horrible. If I can get into the pharmacy I will start it tomorrow. Well that's it. I will keep you posted! |
I just checked out the diet......Boy am I in trouble! Everything I eat is on the avoid list. I'm a vegetarian so I can't eat meat for protein. I buy meatless food and they are made of soy so they are out. Let's see I've been eating bread, pasta, tomato sauce, potatoes, drinking juice and well doing all the bad things. I guess starting tomorrow it's time for an overhaul....
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Hey Robyn,
You are welcome... thanks for being so open to it =)) Yea, I'm not a big fan of yogurt for several reasons... but the smell and taste of it confirms my hesitancy to eat it! I am glad that your dentist called you back... that is a sign that he is concerned about you so hopefully he will keep this attitude when he sees you. His reason for wanting you to call back is twofold.... one is to see if your intestinal problems have subsided any (I'll explain later) and two he needs to consider other antibiotics and how to administer them. Intestinal problems caused by (or worsened by) antibiotics such as Clindamycin are a health concern because this medication can cause a serious physical condition called Colstridium Difficile or C-Diff for short. This is acutally an infection in the intestines that comes from killing off the good bacteria that lines the intestinal tract. It is a difficult infection to treat and it can occur and reoccur after the antibiotic is done. Since 75% of our immune system is in our digestive tract, it is imperative to keep it as healthy as possible on a daily basis so that when the time comes to take an antibiotic, we have enough stored up good bacteria to maintain some degree of balance in the intestinal flora to help stop or lessen the intestinal upset from the meds. That's why alternative doctors recommend a daily supplement of a probiotic ......it just makes sense to keep the immune system as healthy as possible. Not all probiotics are quality ingredients so we need to be careful of what we are taking..... also some of the bacterias in probiotics are not essential to our well being so we actually don't need those. What we do need is lactobacillus and plenty of it! Culturelle is an excellent source of that bacteria! Yes... do ask him about the surgery so you are prepared ahead of time. Bryanna Quote:
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Oh boy.... I had a feeling you might be feeding your problem because most people don't realize how their diet affects their intestinal bacteria.
Soy can actually cause a sleu of intestinal problems on it's own if it is over consumed. Alot of people, especially those who were not brought up on soy products, can be sensitive or allergic to soy and find themselves with chronic digestive issues because of it. We also need to keep in mind that many of our foods are now genetically modified and no one knows the health affects that will cause ... soy is usually GM unless the product states that it's not. Now is probably a good time to change your diet as you might find that your dental problems get better when you start to feel better. I would encourage you to research some of the yeast free diets on the internet and see if you can come up with a diet that is suitable and realistic for you. Try not to feel like you are doing bad things to yourself ... instead think from a different perspective in that you are now becoming better informed about the good things that you can do!! How's that =))) Let me know how you are doing on this new journey.........! Bryanna Quote:
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Okay just got home from my appt. at my dentist to replace my bottom retainer, I love love love my new one! I then seen the oral surgeon. He and I both felt the hard swelling had went down some from last Wednesday but he said the gum still looked inflamed. He asked me how much Flagyl I had left which I have about 2 more days since I took that little break last weekend. He said finish it and we will see how it goes for another week. Yaayy!! It is possible with it being a long standing infection and my immune system could be compromised (yes again I'm to blame) that is why it is taking me longer to heal. I do know I am tickled to get a break from antibiotics for awhile and so far have dodged the bullet on him cutting my gum open to go exploring! Bryanna I did go buy Citrucelle probiotic so I'm taking it twice a day to try and get back on track. As for the diet, well it might be hard to incorporate. I have had food issues my whole life in that I will only eat certain things. It's more psychological than physical. My mother always told me that as a baby I wouldn't eat meat even then and she would have to hide it in applesauce. I don't eat alot of soy but I do occasionally enjoy a "burger" like other people enjoy their BK or Mickey D's. I have been figuring out what has been harder on my stomache while I been on the antibiotics since I've had plenty of time to watch and the last few days I have made a point not to eat them until my stomache issues get straightened around again. I hate it cause I've always had an iron stomache and bragged I could drink drain cleaner and it wouldn't bother me! Now I know prolonged antibiotics and me do not get on well. I'm just very thankful I have never had the other "issue" antibiotics cause in some women but I hear it's no walk in the park either. Got my fingers crossed I'm on my way to being back to my normal real soon!
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Hi Robyn,
OK... good.. good!! Do the best that you can with your diet..... and hopefully in a week or so you will be feeling much better! Keep me posted.. =) Bryanna Quote:
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Will do Bryanna! And thanks for all the help, you were a lifesaver thru all this:grouphug:!!!!
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