SSI backpay(deceased person)
 

A friend of mine just passed away but he was approved for SSDI. He was way behind in child support payments and I think he collected unemployment last yr. His son should be able to receive survivor benefits . What happens to the SSI/SSDI money if both child support and back taxes are owed? What supercedes what?

How old is the child? If the child is 18 or under than that child as well as his mother are entitled to survivors benefits. I have to do some research but I don't think they can get back payments from SSDI after they are deceased. . Let me do a little research and I'll be back. File right away because sometimes they figure benefits from the time you apply, not necessarily from the time the person dies.

How do I apply for benefits?

If you are not currently getting Social Security benefits

You should apply for survivors benefits promptly because, in some cases, benefits will be paid from the time you apply and not from the time the worker died.

You can apply by telephone or at any Social Security office. We will need certain information, but do not delay applying if you do not have everything. We will help you get what you need. We need either original documents or copies certified by the agency that issued them.

Here is just some basic info:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10084.html#3

Another Link:
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/395

I couldn't find anything on getting SSDI back payments when a person is deceased. I'm surprised that they didn't deduct it from his unemploymenmt. Well here is all I could find. If I were you I would tell your friend to file a.s.a.p. and explain the whole story.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy.../pb2004-02.pdf

The underpayment due a deceased is paid out based on the following priority list. Child support and back taxes are not on the list. Unemployment benefits are not an issue. If he received a public disability benefit, that would offset the SSDI.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0202301030

The person who has responsiblity for the child should file a survivor claim for the child and should file a request for the underpayment (form 1724) on behalf of the child at the same time.

Janke,

This is because I'm curious and was waiting to see what the 'answer' to BB's question would be, because I had no idea how SSA would handle this.......but why don't they just pay it to the deceased's estate ?

I prefer the idea that the money would go straight to the child, as the debt of the deceased could eat up the whole award, but it just seems to me that any debtors would be entitled to recover their losses.......or say a deceased man was estranged from his ex wife and child and wanted to leave all assets to his new wife.

I'm contemplating divorce and on a divorce forum, so that 'angle' may color my perception on this.

If the parents were divorced and the deceased had one child ,then the mother of the child is eligable for benefits ,also? How does that work? Must she be a certain age and never remarry to receive survivors benefits? If the person that was awarded SSDI is dying,can they remarry their ex so they can receive survivor benefits if they weren't going to receive them ,otherwise?

Can't answer the why question. The representative of the estate is 7th in line. First person in line is the spouse who lives with the deceased. An ex-spouse is nowhere on the list, but could get the money as representative payee for the deceased's child. But it's the child's money.

That's not true an ex-spouse is entitled to benefits under certain rules. My aunts collects benefits from 2 husbands, and she is rich. I don't think SS survivors benefits include deceased children. I believe you are entitled to up to 6 months backpay.

http://www.ssa.gov/survivorplan/onyourown3.htm

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10084.html#2

LM,

Janke was answering my question relating to an ex spouse going after a piece of the deceased estate if the SSDI backpay went to the estate......which , as Janke explained, it does not. You are discussing something totally unrelated.
I'm also not too sure what you were talking about with " I don't think SS survivors benefits include deceased children" I would think it's obvious that a dead child could not collect benefits.

BB,

A divorced ex spouse can collect survivor benefits if they care for the deceased's child. I think they can even if they have remarried, but not sure on that part.

I believe they go by how long they were actually married. My baby brother died of a massive heart attack at the age of 26. He had 3 children. The children started getting benefits right away. Almost $300 each a month and they will get this until they reach the age of 18 (2 of them already have). His wife didn't get anything because they were only actually married 2 years. She didn't want to work and support the kids and was about to loose them to the child welfare people. Me and my other 2 brothers helped my parents to take custody of the kids so they would have a chance at life. Now this happened way back in the early 90s so the rules have probably changed since then.

The way I read the original question was that the deceased had not yet been paid the the underpayment due the deceased based on the deceased's entitlement to SSDI benefits. The guy died before his benefits could be paid to HIM (or her, as the case may be). The spouse who lived with the deceased at the time of the deceased's death is the first person who is eligible to be paid the underpayment due the deceased for SSDI.

In re-reading the question, I now realize that the question may not have meant what I originally thought. Was the original poster referring to the underpayment due the deceased, or ongoing survivor benefits?

My answer had nothing to do with receipt of survivor benefits. A father's obligation to pay child support does not then become the responsibility of the child who receives survivor benefits. The father's debt will not be garnished from the child.

I was asking what happens to the SSI money should the deceased die before collecting. He was basically penniless and I don't know how SSI works. Does the approved have to wait the 6 month waiting period before being eligiable for SSI? He more than likely didn't pay taxes on his unemployment so I guess the SSI money doesn't go towards that or child support but does the survivor get it or no one gets it?

There is a thread on this site called Don't start your claim unprepared. There is a poster called Kallixenia who is a SS examiner. I would ask that poster. From my experience I had one survivor case that went to the Federal level, they found that you are entitled to benefits if you are found to be a widow and have children under the age of 18, ex-spouses under certain rules. In that case, the claimant filed 2 years after her spouse had died and was only entitled to 6 months back pay. SSI is for the individual, and dies with the individual. So chances are the children are not entitled to back child support from SSI. Tell your friend to apply right away.
There could be a rule I'm not aware of.

Thanks for clarifying. I did read it right except in the first post you said SSDI and in this one you said SSI. That one letter D makes a big difference in the answer.

So he got a favorable decision and then died before the money was paid

The link I gave shows the priority of paying an SSDI underpayment due a deceased. Spouse living with is first. Then an entitled child. The estate is last on the list if there is no one of higher priority and the estate may have to pay legal debt which may include the child support or the IRS. I am not
sure of that.

The five month waiting period still applies for SSDI, but that should have been over sometime in the past.

If this is an SSI question, I have a different answer.

I believe that Kallixenia is a disability analyst, not a claims representative so her expertise is on determining whether or not a person is disabled, not who can get survivor benefits or payment of an underpayment due a deceased. That is done in the field office and payment center by claims representatives and claims authorizers.

And yes, there are limits on the retroactivity of survivor and auxilliary claims. But the original question was about underpayment due a deceased.

Yes,the social workers at the hospital helped hurry up things. He was wondering why it took my case so long to be approved and his was basically overnight. He was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in early December and was awarded SSDI benefits shortly afterwards. His son is scheduled to receive first payment in June. Don't think the deceased had an estate. He was living with his mom at the time of death. Is someone responsible for doing a deceased person's tax return or do they let it pass? It looks like he got his unemployment checks tax free. Still not sure if his ex-wife is entitled to survivor benefits.

So let me get this straight the guy with stage 4 cancer is the one you were inquiring about? That would put him in dire need and that is why he got his benefits so quickly. If his ex- wife has custody of his child who is 16 and under then she can collect benefits but, she has to file. If she is 60 or older and not remarried or over 50-59 and disabled then she is entitled to his benefits. I don't understand why his ex- wife wasn't collecting child support and had his paychecks garnished. Taxes are never over looked, they will send a bill if he owes anything. There are so many rules Babyboomer that if I were you I would have your friend call SS and make sure she is entitled in her state. The link below may help. Make sure you click on the blue links as they explain it in detail.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answ...o%20pay%20back

Here is a little info on taxes and decedents.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p554.pdf

Decedents compensation for services, interest, dividends, rents, royalties,
income from partnerships, estate or trust income,
A personal representative of a decedent’s estate can be an gain from sales or exchanges of property, and business
executor, administrator, or anyone who is in charge of the income of all kinds.
decedent’s property. Under special provisions of the law, certain items are
If you are acting as the personal representative of a partially or fully exempt from tax. Provisions that are of
person who died during the year, you may have to file a special interest to older taxpayers are discussed in this
final return for that decedent. You also have other duties, chapter.
such as notifying the IRS that you are acting as the personal
representative. Form 56, Notice Concerning Fiduciary
Relationship, is available for this purpose. Compensation for Services
When you file a return for the decedent, either as the
personal representative or as the surviving spouse, you Generally, you must include in gross income everything
should write “DECEASED,” the decedent’s name, and the you receive in payment for personal services. In addition to
date of death across the top of the tax return. wages, salaries, commissions, fees, and tips, this includes
If no personal representative has been appointed by the other forms of compensation such as fringe benefits and
due date for filing the return, the surviving spouse (on a stock options.
joint return) should sign the return and write in the signa- You need not receive the compensation in cash for it to
ture area “Filing as surviving spouse.” be taxable. Payments you receive in the form of goods or
For more information, see Publication 559, Survivors, services generally must be included in gross income at
Executors, and Administrators. their fair market value.
Surviving spouse. If you are the surviving spouse, the Volunteer work. Do not include in your gross income
year your spouse died is the last year for which you can file amounts you receive for supportive services or reimbursea
joint return with that spouse. After that, if you do not ments for out-of-pocket expenses under any of the followremarry,
you must file as a qualifying widow(er) with de- ing volunteer programs.
pendent child, head of household, or single. For more · Retired Senior Volunteer Program (RSVP).
information about each of these filing statuses, see Publi-
cation 501. · Foster Grandparent Program.
If you remarry before the end of the year in which your · Senior Companion Program.
spouse died, a final joint return with the deceased spouse cannot be filed. You can, however, file a joint return with · Service Corps of Retired Executives (SCORE).
your new spouse. In that case, the filing status of your
deceased spouse for his or her final return is married filing Unemployment compensation. For 2009, you must inseparately.
clude in income all unemployment compensation you reThe
level of income that requires you to file an ceived that is more than $2,400. If married filing jointly,
income tax return changes when your filing status include any unemployment compensation received by
CAUTION changes (see Table 1-1). Even if you and your your spouse that is more than $2,400.
!
deceased spouse were not required to file a return for More information. See Publication 525, Taxable and
several years, you may have to file a return for tax years Nontaxable Income, for more detailed information on speafter
the year of death. For example, if your filing status cific types of income.
changes from filing jointly in 2008 to single in 2009 because
of the death of your spouse, and your gross income
Page 6 Chapter 2 Taxable and Nontaxable Income

Yep- I told him he was awarded so quickly because he had a dire need case.

If there is an underpayment due after the waiting period that was never paid to your friend, then whoever is payee for the child can apply for the underpayment to be paid to the payee on behalf of the child. The form is an SSA-1724.