Why do some lose and some gain weight?
 

I find diabetes VERY confusing.

I've battled weight all of my life. I finally lost enough to have a body that passes for normal, while I still don't weigh normal. I can live with that.

My diet is spot on so I'm not worried. I don't cheat. I don't feel the need. I like what I eat and my sugar ranges from 85 to 119 in the a.m. And the other day it was 105 in the afternoon. So whatever I'm doing and eating (walking and sprouting) and eating my salmon), well it works for me.

But I have realized that when I went off insulin for that 6 weeks my body lost some weight. I know that insulin is stored in fat cells. I can understand that much. So when I don't take insulin, and I watch what goes into my body, my sugar went up but I did lose some weight. But I went back on Lantus and so far so good.

So here is where i get confused. I have a friend who used to weight 175. She is tall. This was 5 or so years ago. She got dizzy, they took her sugar and it was 300. So they put her on meds. She LOST a lot of weight, and now she weighs about 115. She is 53 years old by the way.

She does not diet. Her doctor is telling her to stop losing weight. She says 'I'm not trying to lose any weight". She is on 10 of Lantus, she is on Janumet, she is on other orals too. AND SHE LOSES WEIGHT?

I remember when I used to be on Metformin and I couldn't lose an ounce. I also didn't watch what I ate but that's on me.

So I got into the ACCORD program some years ago, saw a nutritionist, got off ALL oral meds, went on Lantus and it took me like 4 years to lose 50 lbs.

I never understood this. I asked my doctor 'why the heck is it so hard for me to lose the rest of my weight" and he said 'Well, you are 63 years old, you look perfectly fine, so don't worry about what the scale says "

Yeah, easy for him. He then said "You would have to go to the gym every single day to lose the rest of the weight because you are 63 years old"

I understand this. But how come my friend is losing weight and she's not trying AND HER SUGAR IS UNDER CONTROL. One morning it was even 74.

She does the fenugreek seeds like I do.

She also smokes, but we are working on that.

I know metabolism plays a part here but I was under the impression that if a person was diabetic because they weighed 175 and then they lost the weight, and their sugar stabilized, then why are they still losing weight even when they don't diet.

I looked up the symptoms of diabetes and one of them was weight loss. It explained that the body is in starvation mode and that it burns fat and muscle for energy.

So how come that didn't happen to me all these years?

And then I have a friend who weighs 300 lbs, is a diabetic for 15 or so years, and she's type 2. And she is on SO much meds I can't believe it.

She takes 80 Levimir, and 3 shots of humulog a day plus orals. And each morning when she wakes up her sugar is over 250.

When she told me this I said : 'holy cow, you are not scared about this?" and she said: "Well, nothing I can do, I'll never be 120 in the morning but I'm worried about what happens down the road."

Down the road??? Jeez.

So someone please explain:

1. How a person can be on all that meds (and I don't think she's eating tons of cake every day, she does watch), so how can she be taking 3 shots of humalog and 80 units of Levimir and oral meds AND STILL GET UP AND IT'S 281??

I don't understand how this could happen

And the other friend, why is she still losing weight and she's not dieting?

I don't understand the ups and downs of diabetes.

I guess I have to be lucky that my sugar is 85 in the morning.

I'm doing well, and that's great but I really would like to understand what is going on when other people have the same condition that I have.

If Mrs. D or someone could explain in simple terms why I don't lose weight like my friend does, and why my other friend is on SO MUCH MEDS and still can't get under 250, well I'd sure like to understand this.

Thanks much

Melody

The answer may be here:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread144410.html

It has to do with how much insulin you produce. The more insulin the more storage of food calories as fat.

Also the type of food eaten affects some people. Carbs are just poison for some and not others. That would be a genetic issue.

Comparing oneself to others, is really just going to make you feel worse IMO.

To change the way the receptors on your cells react to insulin, can reduce insulin requirements.
Mel, you should get rid of the breakfast of carbs, and do the 30 gram protein thing.
In his book, Ferris also has metabolic data showing that all calories are not equal.

at 90% consumption in testing situations per 1000 cal:
Fats eaten in tests in the 1000cal day test diets, lead to .9 lb loss per day.
Proteins eaten in same test situation, lead to .6 lbs per day loss
carbs ... .24 lb loss

He goes on to say protein really is thermogenic and consumes calories.
So he says some scientists want to reduce carb cal from 4 to 3.2/gram.

To start your day, and set up the right hormone balance for energy and not storage... you should eat 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of getting up. If you don't, the carbs (your muffin), will be stored instead.

Counting carbs he claims is shown in studies to be useless...since all calories are not equal metabolically in the body.

And don't forget, Type II people eventually burn out their pancreas over time with insulin overproduction. If you lost cells, you will always need some supplemental insulin.

You can choose what you want for your 30grams of protein... tofu, eggs, various meats, etc. Even soy shakes, etc.
But say goodbye to the muffin!

I haven't finished the diet portion of the book yet. I expect some other tips will be in there. The book is 500+ pages, after all! ;)

Mrs. D.

I have NEVER had a muffin in my life for breakfast. When I go to my local cafe I have an egg (or egg white), with a slice of cheese on a scooped out toasted role with a dash of margarine. I dump my sprouts (to which I add a drop of liquid smoke) and this sandwich tastes exactly like bacon and eggs. It's the least expensive thing on the menu and it fills me up because the sprouts make it a big sandwich and I sit there for an hour chatting up with the local people. This is my socialization for the day.

So do you think the one roll I have in the morning sets me up to not lose more weight than I could actually lose? It's the only refined carb I have, it's the only bread I have in the whole entire day. The rest of the day is protein and complex carbs (tomatoes, veggies)

I am understand bit by bit as to what is needed for protein. I could order 2 eggs instead of the one egg but then that's more cholesterol, right?

Same with ordering bacon.

30 grams for protein in the a.m..? I don't know how I would order this at my cafe.

Oh, maybe if I drink one of those protein shakes before I left the house?

Then I would go and get my breakfast.

Do you think that is feasible.

and the thing about the insulin.

Being that using the fenugreek seeds is REALLY lowering my blood sugar in the morning, I am going down by 1 unit at a time.

Maybe I'll get back down to 5 like I did last October (when I didn't know about fenugreek)

So let's see if I get this correct. The more diabetic meds (insulin) I take the slower I will lose weight because insulin (no matter if my body makes it, or I inject it), well it's going to be stored in my fat cells and thus I don't lose weight.

If I go down to 5 eventually, that will be a bit better? Or it doesn't matter how many units one is on?

I'm going to check out the link you provided.

I still don't get why my skinny friend who is on insulin and other meds, is continuing to lose weight. Is it the diabetes that is doing this to her? Is her body looking for energy so it's burning muscle and fat??

She is beside herself and she doesn't want to lose any more and she eats (not carbs), but she eats.

I'm now going to check out that link you gave me.

thanks much for the info.

Melody

It is only breakfast with the 30gram protein rule, so far that I know. I haven't read all the book yet.

5 eggs =30grams. Dr. Oz said forget about the cholesterol, or if you are worried do only the whites with one yolk. I am making omelets with chicken or steak with two or 3 whole eggs.

When I get the other info down to an understandable level, I'll share that.

...did you watch the videos yet?

The insulin is not stored... the glucose is. When the other cells of your body do not respond to the insulin to help glucose in (muscles, brain)... it goes to the fat cells. In other words when you eat you feed your fat and the rest of the body starves, and then you get hungry faster, and want more. The trick is to turn on the receptors in the body to accept the insulin, so glucose can get in.

She may be losing because she is going into ketosis, burning fat because she cannot get glucose in. Diabetics before being treated (type I) lose enormous amounts of weight.

She may be losing for other reasons...she may have a hidden cancer, for example.

Metformin is the only medication that encourages weight loss.
It does this by stopping the liver from making too much glucose (which is what happens in the dawn phenomenon). Much of our glucose is made in the liver if we don't eat any.

It can be very complicated, and some may be genetics. Some people are just fast burners. And others are conserving types.
So you cannot compare yourself to others, for that reason.

Watch the videos, and try the 30 gram protein breakfast. You will find you don't get hungry much during the day. I am starting to have very small lunches or dinners. Some days I only have some nuts for lunch! The change in appetite is amazing!

Hi Mrs. D.

I am going to start the 30 gram protein breakfast tomorrow. I can't have the roll right? That will screw it up??. I'll order some eggs and a slice of cheese. And my coffee. It's the socialization that is important to me. I meet up with some very nice people, and believe it or not, I share with them, what I have learned from these forums. I don't mention anyone's name, I just share what I have learned.

You'd be amazed at how many people are now using fenugreek(the diabetics that I know) and also Methyl B-12. It's amazing.

And about Metformin aiding in weight loss. I remember vividly my days long ago (even when I was dieting). Never lost a pound. Metformin made me go the bathroom every five minutes so I was glad when I started the Accord program to just have Lantus and nothing else.

Tonight we went for Japanese and guess what? I had my first beef dinner in over 15 years. It's a Bento box and they give you a little portion of beef. And some brown rice and a few other things. We celebrated Valentine's Day and I wasn't guilty because I don't eat this every day. That's why I enjoyed it.

So I'll do the 6 day being on a good eating plan and on the 7th, I might indulge myself (I don't think I'll binge because I'll get sick), but I will eat something different.

Wouldn't it be amazing if at my age, I could lose some more pounds.?

That would be so funny. And eating stuff I actually enjoy to boot.

I wonder if I ever will be able to ever get off Lantus and be entirely controlled by diet and Fenugreek. I'm not going to worry about it. I'm happy in the place I am and I enjoy getting up and seeing those numbers every day.

Way cool!!!

And I did see the videos. I click every link you include in a post. That's how I learn.

lol
melody

Thanks for this thread.

I needed this right now.

I do have to say when I first started medformin I lost weight.

I am at a stand still right now. But I have to get back to losing again.

Donna:grouphug:

Hi dmom:

We're in this TOGETHER.

We'll lose the weight.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

lol

All kidding aside. Losing weight is a lifetime thing. Too bad I didn't realize this years ago when I used to sit in front of the tv and just inhale dips and chips and ding dongs and dong dings, etc.

Bad Melody

But I learned!!

And I applied what I learned.

You keep trying.

You'll get there.

Melody

Hi Dmom and Mrs. D.

This morning I began doing the 30 gram thing. Made the protein shake and drank it as I was getting dressed. No inconvenience whatsoever. I have one of those small hand blenders that are battery operated.

Then I went to my local breakfast place (I have never had to order breakfast because i have eaten the same thing for over 10 years).

I walk in announcing "new breakfast, new breakfast", and everybody started laughing because they thought I was going to pull a plant out of my shopping bag and eat the plant.

After we all stopped laughing I said "No, no more roll for me, (( I had gone over to the owner and said "Can I add an egg and take away the roll and pay the same price??") NO PROBLEM.

So I ordered two eggs with a slice of cheese and they refill your coffee, and I then got my plate will eggs and cheese, dumped my sprouts, folded it over like an omelette, held it up for all the locals to see and I said out loud "See, Melody has a new breakfast"

We all laughed, Then I explained the 30 gram thing and what my goals were.

One of the guys said "You know Melody, the other day I was in this buffet place having lunch and they all these sprouts and I burst out laughing and said "oh, that's what Melody eats"

I then said "See, you remembered me because I'm memorable"

So I shall see where this 30 gram breakfast is going to take me.

Change is good (thank goodness I don't mind changing my eating habits).

Take care

Melody

Oh, Mrs. D or anbody, I have a question about the one day binge thing. The guy on the Dr. Oz show said "you can eat anything". I don't think he was referring to diabetics, right?

Maybe not referring to diabetics. But certainly helpful for insulin resistant people (like me) But for diabetics one could always just up the insulin a few units for the binge. That is what people do who shoot Humalog, etc. Brittle diabetics would need close monitoring I think. The purpose of the "binge" is to LOSE WEIGHT. People who don't need to lose weight, don't do the calorie restriction the other 6 days in the first place!
And your goal, Mel is to lose some more weight, right?

My binge is quite small....just pizza. I might have a little vanilla ice cream or a chocolate treat (2 pieces of Ghirardelli dark squares with mint). It's the pizza crust I count as the "binge" thing. The purpose of the "binge" is to stimulate thyroid hormone to wake up and increase metabolism. Really, it is hard to really binge in the true sense of binge, after eating less all week. It seems sickening in fact. It is just giving yourself a small treat so you won't miss fave things etc ( it is not eating 9000 calories or some such!). And I love pizza.
I could eat pizza every day!

I am starting to do lentils for dinner now. Cooking them up with
chicken broth and garlic. They don't bother me like red beans do, and they are very satisfying (good source of magnesium and also anti-inflammatory). I am expecting my glucose strips this week, so I will start testing to see what changes come about.
I have to test quite a bit before starting the metformin again. (this version is supposed to be better for the GI side effects...Glumetza.)

You know, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this binging thing. I saw it in my mind as me eating a table load of food and I couldn't do that in a heartbeat. Maybe 20 years ago, NO PROBLEM. But now??? after I worked so hard to get my eating in the right place, well, it's nice to know that MY VERSION of binging will be maybe a slice of pizza (or 2) for dinner on Monday evening.

I have designated Monday as binge day.

Oh my god, I haven't had pizza in 10 years. Do you know how I love pizza??

lol

Right now I'm sauteeing the bean sprouts that I sprouted. With some onions and garlic. Divine.

And some grilled chicken.

But next Monday, it will be pizza or some other decandent thing.

This is going to make my metabolism go faster, or stimulate my thyroid, or whatever?? Who knows.

And I know PLENTY of diabetics who never take their sugar but they are skinny as rails, type ones, and LOVE to eat Cannolis and everything with sugar.

One guy I know has had 5 eye operations. He's 57 or so and LOVES his food. He must weigh no more than 140. He takes 5 shots a day. I asked him "You take 5 shots a day and you don't monitor your glucose levels?" He said "I never check my sugar, I know what it is"

Well, I don't know how he knows what it is but having 5 eye operations does not bode well in my opinion. He's been doing this for 30 or so years.

He says "I LOVE to eat"

Yeah, WE ALL love to eat, but jeez, eye operations??? Five shots a day. He says "I know the carbs in my meals and I adjust my humulog accordingly".

I never knew that people did this, or could do this.

And do me a favor Mrs. D. Give me some binging things that I can do on a Monday. I gather if I take 10 or so of the Lantus on a regular basis, than Sunday night I would take 12 or so because I'm going to binge on Monday? So what can I eat besides pizza that would be considered a binge and not kill me.??

lol

Melody
P.S. Here's a good question. Do I binge in the afternoon or is it a dinner thing? Which meal is the one that people should binge? I really sound clueless, I know this. lol

Don't do any extra insulin the first time...just monitor your sugar.
See what happens. Get a thin crust for that pizza. It will be less carbs.

Don't forget the grapefruit...this is what keeps the sugar down on binge day.

Are you using RX drugs? (lisinopril is not affected).
Grapefruit interacts with some RX meds.

I think the TV show was a bit overdone with the binge. Dr. Oz does that...and that is why I don't like him much. But being sensible and having forbidden things...is sort of a binge IMO.

That guy is on FIVE shots a day.... that is alot. I would not envy him. you will probably outlast him considerably.

I'd do the treat at dinner. The idea is to do a real food intake that day, compared to reduced intake the other 6. If you eat 1200 cal a day, then 2000 on binge day is almost double. Not much to make 2000!

Okay, let's see if I have this straight.

I drink half a cup of grapefruit juice before dinner. Then I eat two pieces of thin crusts pizza (I can buy a frozen pizza and bake this??) Only a thin crust one.

Then I take usual shot at night time and next morning, I'll see what happens.

Now here's a question. Should a diabetic be drinking some grapefruit juice every day???

I haven't had that in YEARS!!

And about the calorie load for the day. I don't count calories. I just eat my eggs and cheese with sprouts (like a sprout omelette) for breakfast, lunch is a salad with tuna or grilled chicken or maybe a piece of fish. And supper is a salad, chicken, veggies, etc. then at 8 p.m. I love a piece of sugar free cake (that I make myself), with a cup of coffee.

don't really know how many calories that is, but on BINGE MONDAY, as I'm going to call it, I should up my calorie load to a bit more than I am used to, right?

So maybe I would have some veggie bacon (I'd bring that with my sprouts, they wouldn't care), and perhaps at dinner I might have something else about an hour after I eat the pizza. So if I eat my dinner (pizza) at 6 p.m, maybe at 8 or 9, I'll have some chicken.

I know, not really doing a binge but you have no idea how hard this is going to be for me. I have eaten like this for YEARS. Finally got it into my head to eat natural, not processed, REAL food and lo carbs. And now I have to go against everything I have ever been taught.

Good Lord!!!

lol
so tell me if my plan IS A PLAN!!!!

Thanks much

Melody

That sounds good. Just a bit of a binge... since you are on Lantus.

The grapefruit has been shown to increase insulin actions. Only use unsweetened 100% juice. (or a half grapefruit fresh)
You cannot use the grapefruit if you are using RX drugs.
This is a list of drugs that interact with grapefruit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_grapefruit
Remember new drugs may not appear on this list yet.
Always check with your pharmacist if in doubt.

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs.../jmf.2006.9.49

And remember, to move those large muscle groups during the binge time + grapefruit... the excess sugar is supposed to go to your muscles and not your stored fat. (in the videos).
(I go up and down our stairs). The thyroid receptors are also in your muscles.

Test your blood sugar before bedtime to see where you are.
And the next morning. After that you will know if you need a few more units of Lantus on the binge day.

Since you do not need daily short acting insulin with meals, you should show little effect, I am predicting.

Other diabetics with less control would need more supervision and perhaps not do the "binge" day.

You might be able to then lose that last weight. No guarantees tho...but it is worth a try.

Okay, here is what I'm doing next Monday. I'll eat half a grapefruit before dinner. I'll have a nice steak with half a baked potato. I haven't eaten a potato of any kind in over 15 years.

NOW THIS SHOULD BE SOMETHING.

lol
will update.

Melody

Glumetza
 

Hi there!

I just wanted to jump in and say that generic metformin made me so sick that I was afraid to try it again, but my doctor told me that it should be different with the Glumetza since it was a brand name, so I tried it and she was right. I haven't had one bad side effect from it that I'm aware of. I've been taking it for several months now.

On a another note, I've really learned a lot from this thread. It made me decide to join your community. Thank ya'll :)

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

Thanks for the Glumetza info. This drug just became available again after being recalled last summer. (same contaminated empty plastic bottle issue as with Tylenol etc).

I haven't started it because I am waiting for my One Touch strips to come via Medco...who really messed me up with a huge delay.
They may be in the mail today... or tomorrow. FINALLY.

I am supposed to test quite a bit before doing the Glumetza...then start at 1 a day. 500mg

I took Glucophage ER years ago in a dieting attempt (since I was insulin resistant then too), and it made me so ill. At first it was better than immediate Glucophage and I was doing well. Then all of a sudden the diarrhea came back and I had a terrible attack of vertigo, which another doctor blamed on the metformin so I stopped taking it. This trial with Glumetza is to see if I can improve slightly....I've been controlling blood sugars for years with diet, and now it appears that it is failing to some extent.:p

I take 1000mg in the morning and then again at bedtime. She just recently started me on Lantus at bedtime. Diabetes is so scary to me. I was insulin resistant (pre-diabetic they said) until a few months ago when she told me I was now a "full blown" diabetic. Cripes! I am trying to change my eating habits but it's so hard. I was staying hungry all the time but it seems the insulin has helped with the cravings somewhat. I was doing okay until I was at Walmart the other day and went down the 50% off Valentines Day candy aisle. Bad mistake. I'm trying to get to the point where I can make myself pass on by things in the stores that I don't need to get. Like I said, it's just so hard for me. I have zero willpower.

I pretty much ignored the Pre-diabetes diagnosis and continued to eat what I wanted. I sort of had the mindset of crossing that bridge when I got to it, that I'd worry about it if I ever became a "real" diabetic. They say ignorance is bliss, and it was for awhile, but now that it's changed and I've done a lot of reading about what's happening to my body I can't ignore it anymore and am taking it more seriously. What really got my attention was when I developed neuropathy in my feet. I never knew that pain could feel that way. The burning pain, the shooting pains, the numbness, and very painful to just touch them to try to rub them. It is horrible. It was a terrible smack in the face that I had ignored my blood sugars to this point. I wouldn't wish this pain on anyone.

I have said some of those same things about not understanding why some people lose weight and I haven't. It doesn't seem fair :( . I've been told I should do 5-6 small meals per day. Is that right? I am terrible about going for long periods of time not eating anything and then when I do I tend to overeat.

Anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt you guys, I just found this thread very interesting and wanted to share with you about my experience with Glumetza. I'm going to try the 30mg protein breakfast and am going to check out the fenugreek too.

Thank you so much for the welcome. I look forward to learning more. :)

For a long time I used the Zone diet plan. This is a way of eating that reduces inflammation in the body, and helps you avoid diabetes, and even lose weight. Jennifer Anniston the actress uses it, for example.

The book I've just started reading is helpful. But one thing one must do when insulin resistance turns to diabetes, is ACCEPT the fact, and give up most of your carbs. The 4 hr Body, uses "slow carbs" instead. Beans and lentils. I have a problem with red beans upsetting my GI tract, but the lentils are turning out to be easy for me. They have protein, and slow your blood sugar way down. I am still experimenting with them.

Our TV and magazine ads are very seductive... it is really getting harder and harder who to believe, and to avoid eating badly. Eat and run life styles also make this very difficult.

I still use Zone bars to be snacks. And I find nuts to be a safe way to curb hunger. The 4 hr Body really takes your appetite away if you are willing to eat sparingly and only do protein and good fats.

It is just possible that diabetes has more than one trigger...say perhaps some environmental toxin that sets you up for it. I think we all have to ACCEPT and stop fighting it... and get down to basics. I am also just about to start the sprouts that Melody does here.... I finally got some seeds to work in the new sprouter I got at Xmas. ( I am 64 now and with the history of PCOS and family diabetes, I am very lucky to have delayed this intervention as long as I have).

I am waiting for the X#$$% mail to come with my strips!
It took 3 wks to get my free meter--- long story. Then I sent my Rx to get the strips and it was lost. (Feb 1st), So my doctor called the RX into Medco and they sent it 2-12, but still it is not here yet. Then today I get a notice they received my old dated RX from Jan TODAY...and put it on hold until this RX is done (3 mos for one copay-- Federal Blue Cross). So between my delay with Glumetza, and that recall and unavailability and the strips debacle... I will by the end of this week start testing in earnest several times a day to see where my bad times are. Then I will start the Glumetza which I finally got last week. GAD it has been a huge battle.

I am in good shape. Imagine if I had serious issues?

Hi there. Welcome!!!

I've been sprouting for years and it's the best thing I ever discovered. And the Fenugreek seeds have REALLY helped to control my sugar. I just don't sprout them. I make a tea. I used to chew the seeds, but this way is easier.

Go to any Indian store and look for a package called METHI SEEDS. If my video camera was working, I'd make a video of how I now make Fenugreek tea out of my seeds. They turn a beautiful rich color. I just sip it. I don't want to plunge my sugar but the stuff really works.

And just to show you HOW and WHAT I sprout, here is a link to one of my videos up on youtube.

Sprouting has literally saved my life. I used to be a VERY large woman who ate everything under the sun even though I was diabetic. I have learned much from coming to these forums.

Here is the link, and I have others which you can see if you think you might like to start sprouting. But just give a look anyway so you can see what changed my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHNP...eature=related

And to the person who had developed Neuropathy, well, a few years ago I had just learned I had neuropathy, so I know all about the zips, zaps, and burning. What did I do? I came on these message boards and read everything I could read. I learned about Methyl B-12 and I take 5000 ever single morning. Been doing this for years. And don't bother asking your doctor about it because doctors practice medicine, THEY DON'T PRACTICE nutrition.

We help each other a great deal on these forums. I'd be lost without them. And Mrs. D too!!!

So the tip I learned was Methyl B-12 and now the tip I can give back is Fenugreek Tea (or chew the seeds after soaking for 7 hours). Actually it's a whole lot easier just throwing a tablespoon of seeds into a pot, add plenty of water (about 4 cups). And bring to boil. Then steep. I pour it into a big cup, leave it on my counter. I take a few sips before each meal and when I go to bed. Then if there is any left, I'll put it in the fridge. This is SO cheap, I can't begin to tell you.

Go best of luck to you all

Melody

I have decided what I want as my first binge. And it's not pizza. Alan told me "you are not bringing pizza into the house". I was planning on buying a weight watchers pizza but then I had this idea. The whole thing about the binge is to rev up the metabolism by eating something that you would NEVER eat the other 6 days, right?

And I have read where red wine LOWERS blood sugar. I do not drink, I only drink when I go to weddings or catering halls and I haven't been there in 5 years so I have not had any alcohol in my body in 5 years.

So on Monday evening at dinner time, here is what I am planning to do.

First sip a small cup of grapefruit juice (maybe i don't need to do this if I have a small glass of wine???)

Then as my meal (and I can't wait to do this, it's been SO long).

I will make a Romanian tenderloin steak smothered in lime juice, chopped tomatoes, basil, cilantro and fresh garlic. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS SMELLS AND TASTES. I haven't had this in over 10 years. This is my grandmother's italian recipe.

On the side I will have some veggies. I think I should skip the sprout salad because this is supposed to be a NEW meal, right?

And to top it off I will have a small baked potato. With a dollop of sour cream OH MY GOD!!!! lol

And to accompany this small feast (it won't be a lot of food because I don't eat a lot of food at one time), so it will be a small steak, small potato, lots of veggies,etc). I shall have one glass of red wine.

This I will definitely enjoy.

I wouldn't enjoy the pizza because it's just pizza. No main course.

And every Monday night I will have something similar. I just might even have a small dish of Dreamfield's pasta, with some veggies and a glass of red wine. One thing I won't have at this binge is chicken or fish or soy. It has to be something I NEVER usually eat and it has to include some carbs, right?

Once a week, I shall have a glass of wine.

Then the next morning, I'll take my blood sugar and we'll see it there is any big change.

Ooooh, I'm experimenting again!!!

lol

So let me know if this sounds like a plan.

IT DOES TO ME!!!!
Melody

Mrs. D. you asked:

"Are you using RX drugs?"

Only Lantus and Lisinopril. Hard to believe in this day and age. All of my friends take 10 pills a day and various injections of this or that. I think it's my sprouts that are saving me. I really do.

Melody

I found this page today...and find it answers some of your questions, Mel.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php

The bottom line is that people vary. There is no one answer.

Mrs. D.

Hands down the BEST article on Diabetes I have ever seen. I especially loved the following paragraphs:

"It takes work and study to bring diabetic and prediabetic blood sugars down to the normal, truly healthy levels. If you rely only on pills and do nothing else, the only blood sugar levels you will be able to get to are the much-too-high "good enough for a diabetic" levels which, as you can see elsewhere on this site, are "good enough" only if you think neuropathy, retinopathy and a heart attack are "good enough."

Though your doctor may think you are too lazy to do the work needed to get normal blood sugars and may not bother explain to you what it takes to achieve normal numbers, people with diabetes CAN and DO attain these normal blood sugar numbers. You can, too. If you want some inspiration, check out this page: The 5% Club: They Normalized Their Blood Sugars and So Can You.

Can't wait to further explore the other links in this article.

I'm sharing this with all of my diabetic friends. And I have many. I have one friend who takes 1 shot of Lantus 80, 3 shots of Humulog, oral pills, AND MANY OTHER MEDS. And when she wakes up, her sugar is 281????.

Yesterday I explained about the Fenugreek Tea. I said "what have you got to lose?, you just might wake up and it could be under 200, and that would be a start, you really need to get your a1c down from 10"

She was interested. I gave her some seeds. I then spoke to her in the evening and asked "did you make the tea?" and she said "no, I'll do it tomorrow, I'm going to watch a dvd". I said 'but that takes 5 minutes and this is your life we are talking about". She said 'Oh, I don't care I want to watch tv"

So I said "okay, have a good night and that was that".

Why a person who after 4 shots, and oral meds, wakes up to find her sugar is 281 and she's not scared. I HAVE NO IDEA. I just don't get it all all.

Melody

Mrs. D.

One quick question before I do the binge thing tomorrow. I know we discussed that it could be one meal (even though people do a binge weekend.

Can I do a binge day? What confuses me is that I'm not sure if I should be adding carbs to my breakfast lunch and dinner.

I know what I'm having for lunch and for dinner. The only carb for dinner will be the potato. The steak and wine and veggies will balance it out, the steak is fat, the potato is carb and the wine is the wine, and since I never eat this way, I call it a binge.

Now the breakfast, here is where I get confused.

I want to have a completely different Monday than I do the rest of the week. So Monday (let's call it Melody's binge day), I'm not sure if my breakfast should be carbs or the Atkins method.

So if I binge on Monday morning, do I have a well toasted scooped out bagel with cream cheese (Haven't eat one of those in YEARS), or do I have 2 eggs with a slice of cheese and some bacon). No carbs in that.

Because I'm diabetic and this is one day, I'm not sure if the binge should be a carb binge or an Atkins binge.

Once I get this down pat I'll know what I'm doing. But tomorrow morning is the first breakfast of my weekly binge thing.

I don't do cereal, oatmeal or french toast. With syrup (yuck). Haven't eaten that in years. I could do oatmeal, but that's a binge?? Don't think so. I'm supposed to shock my metabolism. Wouldn't bacon eggs and cheese do this? And no carbs, so it wouldn't spike blood sugar, right?

This is the last question I'll ask on this binge thing. Once I know what I'm doing, I'LL DO IT!!! lol

Thanks much

Melody

I think the answers will come with your testing that day and the following.

You could do 1/2 bagel...for that breakfast with eggs and some meat of your choice.

I am testing my blood sugars in preparation for the Glumetza to start. I am finding a huge "dawn phenomenon" effect. My highest sugars are then. Then I go down the rest of the day to 120-102.
This must be why my A1C is 6.2.

Today I am 10 pts higher at every reading than yesterday. And eating mostly the same things. And I get really hungry at 4pm-6pm, so I am doing nuts then, to take the edge off.

I had a small piece of steak and one serving of lentils, and some beets (this was a very filling meal)... and today I was at 150! (no night snack).

So I've been looking up dawn phenomenon, and they say to test sugar at 2am or so to see if it is elevated. It not, then it is dawn, if it is, then something else is going on. (we eat dinner around 6:30 to 7pm).

If my "dawn continues" I will take the Glumetza at night only to start. I am to do 500mg a day, to see how the side effects are. :rolleyes:
I'll do that for a week and see how the fastings are. I won't test so many times a day since I see a definite rhythm with my daily tests.

As far as you are concerned, don't forget the lemon juice or grapefruit...it is THAT which opens the receptors for the treat meal.

Keep your portions reasonable, and you should be okay I predict. I am suspecting this "treat day" is more for weight loss than sugar control. I'd keep the breakfast as uncarb as possible. (you have some dawn carbs already when you wake up) But try a modest carb lunch, see what happens, instead.

Okay, what do you mean I have some dawn carbs already when I wake up? What does this mean?

And I know all about dawn phenomenon. Had that for years when I went to the Accord program and even after.They explained the liver dumping. I never really understood it until I did a lot of research. Only the past 6 months or so (and I don't know why), but the fenugreek is really doing a number on the dawn phenomenon. Try making the tea from the seeds. Let is steep for a while and drink a half cup before bed time (I cannot believe that I am giving YOU advice). lol

Oh, I wasn't actually going to test my sugar on the day of the binge, didn't want to accidentally blow my mind. But I've gotten really good numbers lately so I'll continue to test. It's a mind thing for some people. They don't want to see the high numbers so they don't test.

But I have been very lucky in my numbers so yes indeed, this is a weight loss thing so I have to see where this takes me.

Since a bagel is 55 grams of carbs and a roll is NOT 55 grams of carbs, I think I'll have a bacon and egg on a roll tomorrow morning. That should be a little bit of a binge. I can't order one half a bagel with an egg and bacon. I'd have to pay for a whole bagel. And since having a roll has never impacted my sugar, well I'll have the roll.

Lunch will be no carb but different and you know what my dinner will be.

Just tell me please why I have dawn carbs going on?

And do try the tea, hey it's working for everybody that I know.

Melody

You always posted about your morning sugars... I thought you had the "dawn" thing going.

I am going to look for further information about the fenugreek.

But I did find this about alcohol:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con.../3011.abstract

This is something I would enjoy doing! ;)

I would test your blood just before you eat lunch, and dinner. This will show the effects of the carb you ate the meal before on your glucose.
That will suggest whether you can have the carbs at all. If it goes down before the next meal, you are handling them okay.

Well, for the past two weeks, (when I had the egg on a roll), before Lunch I would test and it was 104, but no higher than 120. For the past week, my morning reading has been 75, 78, 98, etc. I dropped one point of the Lantus (actually 2), and now I'm on 12 and one half.

But I'll check tomorrow. I believe that because I drink the Fenugreek tea, that's why I'm 75 in the a.m. I used to be 180. No more. Not since the Fenugreek. Actually not for a while, and I have no idea why. Maybe I lost a few pounds. You know how I eat. I don't cheat. And I walk. My clothes fit me much better. I'm scared to weigh myself because I don't like what I weigh but I'll do that some day.

The dawn carb thing, oh that's what dawn phenomenon actually means, that I have morning carbs in my system? Never saw it like that.

And do look into the Fenugreek. It's cheap, the Indian stores sell it. It's called Methi seeds. Just get a pot, add a few cups of water, throw in a teaspoon of the seeds, bring to boil, let it simmer for 10 minutes or so, and you'll see the color of the water. Pour into a cup and well, I keep it out all day. I just sip it once in a while and the most important thing I do is take a few sips before I go to sleep. So far it's doing the trick.

Best of luck.

Melody

Well my 3 dawns fasting have been 143, 134, and today 150!

From then on my sugars are pretty good. Today before dinner was 108.

I've been reading about the two causes of Fasting highs.

The Dawn factor

Somogyi Effect

here is a link explaining them.
http://www.libraryfordiabetes.com/ne...cfm?NewsID=233

Tonight I had shrimp and butternut squash.

I'll wake up and take a reading around 1-2am and see what is happening.

I took hubby's Fasting today and it was 82. So the meter does seem to read accurately. I ordered from Medco some control solution to test it out. Do you ever check yours?
I have a One Touch Ultra mini meter.

I check mine from time to time. I also take Alan's and it always coincides with his blood tests (he gets one every 3 months). His is usually 80 to 85. The man always says "If I was diabetic, they'd pay for my shoes and orthotics"

I now have a Bayer meter.

Oh, while I did the research about Fenugreek I did read about if one takes a thyroid medication, one should not take too much fenugreek because it interferes with T3 to T4 conversion (I hope I got that part correct).

But they always mention that side effect, if a person takes A HUGE AMOUNT of the stuff. I just take a teaspoon and make tea. I have no thyroid problem (that I know of), Never did. Never had anything show up in a blood test. Funny, my mother had a thyroid operation when I was 14. She had a tumor. I have no idea if she took any medication after that. She never mentioned this to me. My son is on Armor. Funny, it seems to have skipped me.

Thank god all my parts are still functioning and I'm losing weight and controlling my blood sugar. I know, as we age, this will change, but I always hope for the best.

Melody

So Fenugreek is out for me! I take thyroid.

Today I am 135 fasting. I got up in the night at 2:30am and it was 130. Over time I'll do night readings...to see if the dawn starts up at 4am or so.

Tonight I'll start the Glumetza 500mg.

I found a forum on LoCarb eating where people were discussing various things to lower the dawn phenomenon. Some said Fenugreek worked, some had big effects from Cinnamon, and others had failures with both. It appears that people are quite different when it comes to this factor.`

I am interested in the red wine effect. That is one I will start first I think. But first the Glumetza (and I have Imodium handy).

Hi Mrs. D.

I just had my first binge breakfast. Began my breakfast around 8:15 a.m. Drank my lemon water before I left the house. Walked the 8 or so blocks to my breakfast place. Had a bacon and egg with cheese on a toasted roll. Two cups of coffee with one pack of splenda in each cup. Next time I'll try it with my liquid stevia to see if it makes any differerence in my post prandial.

At 10 a.m. I took my protein drink (Jay Robb Whey drink with Stevia). Downed that, 5 minutes later walked over to take my post prandial. Now maybe I was not supposed to drink that drink and immediately take my sugar but I did it anyway.

My sugar was 199. I have never taken my sugar exactly 2 hours after a meal. I would ordinarily wait until 12 or so and take it and it's like 104 to the highest of 130. I have no idea why it was 199 exactly two hours after my bacon egg and cheese sandwich on a roll or maybe it was the protein drink, who knows? I also took the readings on each hand so it stayed within range. One hand was 199, the other hand was 197.

I shall take it again right before lunch so I have a good log of readings on my binge day. And I'm going to have some fenugreek tea, and tomorrow, when I come home, I'll have the tea also and THEN do the post prandial thing. We'll see if the fenugreek brings it down two hours after I eat breakfast. Never did this before. I was concentrating on the fenugreek tea right before bed time, but I did have a sip or two during the day. Now I will try a half cup of the fenugreek tea right after a meal. This is going to be SOME experiment.

I'll do my walking (I do this every day). Also I will begin to do the post prandial thing all week long to see where I'm heading.

Oh, I went to the butcher that is right next to the breakfast place and I walked in (thinking I was going to buy my Romanian Tenderloin Steak (otherwise known as Skirt Steak). I looked at all the meat and I asked Dominick, the owner, "do you sell skirt steak", and he said "oh, sorry, no we don't". So I set off to buy some other kind of steak.

Well!!! you should have seen my face when I looked over the various cuts of meat. All I can tell you is that Melody is not going to pay $11.98 for a small club steak. Holy Cow.

So I went over to the Pork. That was more my speed. Bought a package of Pork cutlets for $2.63.

I'll take two for tonight, freeze the others and have 3 weeks worth of binge meals for that price.

Oh, I bought a nice Idaho potato. So tonight I shall enjoy my feast.

And you'll find this funny. When I walked in for breakfast, I told the waitress. "Sue, I need a menu, I'm not having my usual two eggs with cheese on a plate". I look at the menu and everything is like six bucks,so I said "how much is a bacon and egg and cheese on a roll with coffee? Five bucks.

Now I haven't paid five bucks for a breakfast in my life. But it's one day a week so I went for it. Do you know that the other people in the cafe (who know about the binge thing because we've been discussing it all week), well they shouted out 'Give me what Melody is having for breakfast" I never laughed so hard.

So it appears that I'm not the only one who is doing this binge thing on Monday.

lol

Melody

Next time you go to the butcher ask about Flat Irons. These are typically ground up at many places... but cut from the top of the chuck, they are very tender, fairly low in sat. fat, and much cheaper than other cuts. UpNorth they still charge 2.99/lb (because they don't know better), Krogers charges 9.99lb. here.
A pound is 3 servings for us. 2 for that dinner, and one left over for my morning steak omelet. The meat is very very nice!
(Costco calls them "tri-tips" but I don't think they are exactly the same cut). UpNorth they have a resident butcher on duty who cuts the meat off a huge carcass. So prices tend to be lower.
We typically have them do the Flat Irons for us in advance(they freeze them for us)..because they can't guarantee a day to have them ..and we can't get over in the boat like you can in a car. I love these, and we don't buy any other cut anymore.

I would test right before the next meal. Testing right after eating tells you nothing. You want to see if your prandial insulin release works well and fast during the day. If you test after a meal do it TWO hrs after. Also the more fat in the meal, the slower the spike after. Avocados are good for this. Good fats, fiber and slowing down stomach emptying. This approach is good for type II's. Test readings that stay elevated the whole time until the next meal are problematic. You want to see the levels come down to normal before you eat again.

So far the only snack that does not elevate my glucose is nuts.
So I do some pistachios. I haven't tried cheese yet tho. I am running thru my strips pretty fast. They are not cheap. I get 300 for 3mon at $70.00 from my insurance.

wow, Flat Iron!! never heard of that in my life.

Will test my sugar as you suggested (before lunch). And tomorrow, after I eat my breakfast I'll go next door to the butcher and inquire about Flat Iron. I only he doesn't look at me and ask "Flat WHAT???"

LOL

Melody

Flat Irons: my son taught me about these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_iron_steak

http://www.askthemeatman.com/flat_iron_steak.htm

Also called a shoulder top blade. In the past it was ground up into "ground chuck"... What a waste!

We broil ours. (we broil most of our meats).

They are very very tender.

Very interesting articles.

Oh, it's 1 p.m. About to eat lunch. A bison burger and my sprouts salad, (going to have some lemon water first).

Just took my sugar 131.

I had some Fenugreek tea before. The darned stuff works.

So I shall continue to keep my log and see where this heads.

And if I get skinny doing this, well YIPEE!!!

At least I'll fit into those lovely Pajama Jeans.

Melody

Let's call it "treat day" instead of binge day...??? That is more accurate.

We learned about it about 3 yrs ago. My son learned about it by watching the Cooking Channel... He saw it on there.

I don't know if in NY where you are, it may be called something else. So be prepared with the alternate names.

TREAT DAY it shall be. And we have the Food Network, don't know about a cooking channel.

I am brewing a nice pot of Fenugreek Tea. I make a BIG mug. Lasts for 2 days.

If I would have known to do this two years ago, well, I would have had better numbers for 2 years, but as they say "better late than never"

And you should see how the Fenugreek is helping my friend (who is my beautician). Her numbers in the a.m. are 95, 98 and she is THRILLED.

She's giving me some of her clothes that no longer fit her, but now fit me.

She weighs about 110. (that's the one I told you about). She is so happy with her blood sugar results she calls me and says "come come, I have more clothes"

And you think SHE'S THRILLED?? lol

I'm the one who is thrilled. I have no clothes that fit me because I lost MY weight, so now we are sharing clothes.

I LOVE this.

I used to wear a size 24 and a half when I was 32 years old.

I remember being in the bathroom, and I had washed one of my dresses to wear for the next day. It was a wash and wear material. Very light, very airy and it was size 24 and a half. I will never forget looking up at that dress hanging on the hanger and saying to myself "I am not THAT big".

I was!!

Mel

P.S. I have a good question. This lemon water thing that I drink before a meal. Do I do this before each meal, during the week, or only on Treat day. Seems to me if this opens up cell receptors, wouldn't it be great for each meal? or Doesn't it work that way?

That is a good question. I am doing the grapefruit at least once a day...mostly at night now. The nights I used it, my morning fasting levels were lower by 10-15pts. So I think it works for diabetics all the time. (I put a link to a paper on this thread or the other one about that).

Ah, so tomorrow I shall pick up one of those six packs of unsweetened grapefruit juice. And I took my sugar again at 4:30 p.m. and it was 128. I then decided if this was going to be a treat or a binge day, I would also eat at a different time. so I ate at 4:30 pm. The wine? I had red. I found out I don' like red. I remembered I like burgundy. Later I will have a piece of sugar free cake and a nice cup of coffee and at 10 p.m. I'll have a small piece of salmon. Plain. Every night I eat some protein before I retire and it works for me. That and a few sips of fenugreek tea.

So next week, I shall eat and drink something different.

Thanks very much for ALL your help and much luck with your sugar readings.

I'm rooting for you.

Take care

Melody