Starting Zocor tonight
 

My doctor has suggested it the past few years because my cholesterol has been creeping up there. This time it was 244 and the LDL had gone up too. I finally gave in and agreed to start on Zocor (simvastin). I got the 20mg pills tonight. At least I won't have to worry each time I eat a piece of cheese now. :o

I put myself on oatmeal for breakfast at least 5 out of 7 days per week and mine fell to 189. Everyone in my family is on the pills stuff but this far I have avoided it.

Im proud of you! being pro active helps. :hug:

I hope you have thought this thru, Ewiz.

Here is a thread that was on MS not too long ago.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...=remyelination

Zocor is very lipophilic and enters the brain besides making it more problematic.

I had heard that too, MrsD. AT first they thought that statins were good for MS, then the **** sx hit the fan and they began studying them and found that they were not at all good for MS.

Wiz, I control my cholesterol with Benechol Margerine (about a tbsp or 2 per day). It tastes just like butter and has cholestero lowering thingys in it.

My PCP says it's working, so I'm keeping it up. There are a bunch of those chol reducing things out there now....you may not have to take Zocor, you may be able to do it with you diet?

:hug:

Doesn't Niacin help reduce cholesterol?

I've been eating lots of oatmeal, too, and it really has done me a lot of good. That, along with a good diet and little to no salt works well for me.

Wiz, you don't need to lose any weight, though. Yours could be genetic. :confused:

Long acting Niacin does work, some. But it is hard on the liver and also raises blood sugar for some.

At 244, that is not so terrible.

At least consider replacing the CoQ-10 you lose to the Zocor, with a supplement. This will protect your heart and mitochondria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SSCNaaDcE

We won't be hearing much about LDL etc cholesterol in the near future. Lipitor and Crestor will be generic...no more ads. And the new HDL drug by Merck will replace all the statins. It is in the pipeline now.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...22042020101117

Another simple thing that can lower LDL is psyllium fiber (Metamucil). Twice a day one tablespoonful.

There are studies showing people live longer with higher cholesterol. It is thought to be due to improved immune functions. Also the molecule in the skin that makes Vit D for us during sun exposure is cholesterol based.

My doctor wanted to put me on something a while back....and my numbers weren't that bad I didn't think. I refused and opted to try Krill Oil. I take 1,000 mg a day of it and that seemed to do the trick. He was okay with that which made me wonder why he didn't suggest it in the first place. :rolleyes:

I got really stupid on lipitor & had extra sore muscles too.

The timing of starting it was bad - I had work injury flaring up too.
but dr wanted to do a general checkup and saw the 245 # so rx the lip.:(

thinking back I wonder if the lipitor brought on more of the muscle pain making my work injury worse?

other possible related things I noticed - might have been work injury or a combo of injury/lipitor
close up vision = reading mainly - blurry
some vertigo/dizziness
foggy brained - like ALZ/ADD

never really sorted it all out as I finally got good PT and quit the lipitor at about the same time.
Started feeling much better what ever the reason.

family members on both sides have high - maternal grandmom was @350
and had no heart problems at all - but did have Alz. passed @ 96

Think it over -
the pharmacist did tell me it is something you can go off of without any consequences other than the chol # will go back up.
no withdrawal - mrsD can probably clarify if I misunderstood that pharmacist.

That is correct Jo...no withdrawal. Only a slow return of the cholesterol numbers.

Brain fog, memory loss is the most alarming symptom. Dr. Graveline MD from NASA had memory loss from Lipitor and wrote a book on it.

Some doctors and scientists believe this cholesterol myth was fabricated by the drug companies. And I tend to believe this myself. Google "Cholesterol Myth" and read that website for more information.

Wow. I just read The Cholesterol Myth and the 9 facts at the end of the article. Scary! :eek:

I respect your opinion on these things a lot, mrsD, and just the fact that you believe this is huge to me!

My pharmacist alluded to some of the same things....and I go to him before going to my doctor when I have questions about meds!

There is a thread here recently on MS about Drug Advertising on TV...

Statins are typically done that way. There were even Newsweek and Time articles (not ads) back when Pravachol and Zocor went generic... saying statins are so safe, we should have them in our drinking water! Just a year or so ago, Big Pharma tried to get children on statins! That was all over CNN.

Now that we have almost eliminated TRANS FATS, the heart attack and stroke risks will go down. Trans fats came in the late 30's as Crisco...and ended up in margarine during WWII to save butter. They were very toxic and destroyed cardiovascular health and the health of developing fetus' brains.

This is where I'm at. I eat the high fibre instant oatmeal before heading out to work 5 days a week, and the other 2 days I have 2 slices of toast with egg whites scrambled with green pepper/onion and a slice of fat free cheese.

Whodda thunk oatmeal would be so beneficial to one's health? I didn't realize it myself, I just liked oatmeal and decided it was in my best interests to start eating breakfast when I returned to work 2.5 years back.

My Folic Acid and cholesterol numbers show the benefit of including cereals in ones diet for sure! :)

With that said, I'm with mrsD about the cholesterol info and what's fact v myth. My father actually alerted me to the cholesterol myth and info, as well as his belief that the real problem we're facing with disease are vegetable oils.

Interesting stuff!

Hope this medication does well for you Ewiz :hug:

They are now saying the whole egg is not a problem either - the yolk alone is so loaded with nutrients that it far outweighs any of the former egg & cholesterol scare tactics.

http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyou...gs_protein.htm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...trition-facts/
http://www.incredibleegg.org/health-...nutrient-chart

It's probably more important how you cook your eggs and what you eat with them.

I am thinking of how much my mom loved eggs, I mean, LOVED eggs. We were two peas in a pod, singing along with that old commercial on TV: "I love eggs, from my head down to my legs..."

She used to nearly cry watching others eat scrambled eggs and fried eggs and egg salad sandwiches and deviled eggs...she was a good girl, though, and stopped eating eggs to bring her cholesterol down, making nasty faces at the "Egg Beaters", saying "stupid fake eggs".

I'm not militantly anti-medical profession by any means, but it sure is depressing every time they tell you to stop immediately taking the drugs (or supplements) they've been pounding on you to take forever. And saying you could have been eating/drinking/enjoying whatever after all. *sigh*

Dej,

I eat a large bowl of cheerios with skim milk at least five mornings a week. It's still up there. DH and DS do the cooking now. When I did the cooking it was better. :rolleyes: I don't work out like I used to. I drink a couple glasses of white wine at night. I wonder if that hurts it? Also, I work retail hours so many times I eat a big meal before bedtime when I work the closing shift. I know I could control it otherwise but don't know if I can do it right now. I'm also going to online college so that keeps me in my chair even more.

Mrs D,

That link didn't work. Weren't the higher doses the problem? I'm on the lowest dose. I could even break these in half if I needed to.

Sal,

I'll check out some of those cholesterol lowering products. I already take 1 TB of metamucil at bedtime. I'm sure there are other things I could do.

Kitty,

My big sister died at age 37 of a brain aneurysm, my mom had strokes starting in her early 70s then later had alzheimer's. I'm going to give this a shot and if I don't have side effects I'll stick with it until I can get my life under control as far as diet, rest and exercise. Right now working on my MBA means I have to sit and study a lot too.

MrsD, I already take CoQ10.

I'm taking the generic Zocor btw. It cost me $2.14 with my insurance for a one month supply.

What link didn't work... the YouTube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SSCNaaDcE

The others work when I click on them again.

Anyway...statins have been shown to increase risk of hemorrhagic strokes. Any small statistical improvement for ischemic strokes , is offset by their numbers for hemorrhagic events.
http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/co...A.107.488791v1
The numbers are not great on either side of this question.

Zocor is one of the most lipophilic statins, so watch for CNS side effects. It is good that you take the CoQ-10 already... you might need a higher dose with the statin. Statins block the synthesis of CoQ-10 in the liver.

It is your decision after all.
This is my post on the Peripherial Neuropathy subforum:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post665830-5.html
Also watch for neuropathy.

This link gives the pros and cons in numbers...it reflects a more recent meta study:
http://www.naturalnews.com/028988_st...e_effects.html

This is the study from Canada, in 2007 on women:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...UCPylVneoWax8g

Basically success or need by women is questionable.

So be very watchful for any side effects. Take care.:hug:

(Aneurysms are thought to be inherited).

My dad worked outside most of his life. He ate eggs and butter and pork and cookies with trans fats all of his life. His cholesterol was always low. He live to age 92. Maybe if I could work outdoors I could be like him, lol. :D

Actually much of cholesterol is genetically determined.
There has also been suggestion that the longer a baby is breast fed (very high cholesterol in breast milk) the lower the cholesterol is in adulthood. Babies that consume low cholesterol formulas, have a higher set point in the liver and make more as adults.

Also it is not eggs/butter/meat who are the culprits. It is SUGAR...predominately fructose.

New studies on obesity and sugar, find that cholesterol is raised by the metabolism of fructose in the liver.

What is even more astonishing is that we've known this since the 1980's!
http://www.hepatitis.org.uk/s-crina/cholesterol.htm
Also this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/health/23sugar.html


This new medical video explains this chemistry...it is long but very very interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

It is not so simple, to apply the same numbers to everyone in other words.

Your dad was probably very high in Vit D... many people from the generations who worked outside, escaped chronic illness (until our medical "experts" said to get out of the sun or cover up). Vit D improves immunity, and prevents cancer when levels are high.

That's right.
What is your triglyceride level?
mine is high ....:(

Everyone always focuses only on the cholesterol # but really health wise the triglycerides can have much more impact.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/triglycerides.html
http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4778

ZOCOR affects risk for Alzheimer's & Parkinson's
 

I switched from Lipitor to Zocor because... (as stated below)

"In patients over age 64, those who took Zocor were 54% less likely to get Alzheimer's disease and 49% less likely to get Parkinson's disease than were matched patients not taking statin drugs.

Those who took Lipitor were 9% less likely to get Alzheimer's disease, a finding that was not statistically significant. Lipitor did not affect Parkinson's disease risk.

jackD (Braindead)



1: BMC Med. 2007 Jul 19;5:20.

Simvastatin is associated with a reduced incidence of dementia and Parkinson's disease.

Wolozin B, Wang SW, Li NC, Lee A, Lee TA, Kazis LE.
Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, MA, USA. bwolozin@bu.edu

BACKGROUND: Statins are a class of medications that reduce cholesterol by inhibiting 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A reductase. Whether statins can benefit patients with dementia remains unclear because of conflicting results. We hypothesized that some of the confusion in the literature might arise from differences in efficacy of different statins. We used a large database to compare the action of several different statins to investigate whether some statins might be differentially associated with a reduction in the incidence of dementia and Parkinson's disease.

METHODS: We analyzed data from the decision support system of the US Veterans Affairs database, which contains diagnostic, medication and demographic information on 4.5 million subjects. The association of lovastatin, simvastatin and atorvastatin with dementia was examined with Cox proportional hazard models for subjects taking statins compared with subjects taking cardiovascular medications other than statins, after adjusting for covariates associated with dementia or Parkinson's disease.

RESULTS: We observed that simvastatin is associated with a significant reduction in the incidence of dementia in subjects > or =65 years, using any of three models. The first model incorporated adjustment for age, the second model included adjusted for three known risk factors for dementia, hypertension, cardiovascular disease or diabetes, and the third model incorporated adjustment for the Charlson index, which is an index that provides a broad assessment of chronic disease. Data were obtained for over 700,000 subjects taking simvastatin and over 50,000 subjects taking atorvastatin who were aged >64 years. Using model 3, the hazard ratio for incident dementia for simvastatin and atorvastatin are 0.46 (CI 0.44-0.48, p < 0.0001) and 0.91 (CI 0.80-1.02, p = 0.11), respectively. Lovastatin was not associated with a reduction in the incidence of dementia. Simvastatin also exhibited a reduced hazard ratio for newly acquired Parkinson's disease (HR 0.51, CI 0.4-0.55, p < 0.0001).

CONCLUSION: Simvastatin is associated with a strong reduction in the incidence of dementia and Parkinson's disease, whereas atorvastatin is associated with a modest reduction in incident dementia and Parkinson's disease, which shows only a trend towards significance.

PMID: 17640385 [PubMed - in process]


Zocor vs. Alzheimer's and Parkinson's

Cholesterol Drug Zocor May Lower Risk of Both Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Diseases

By Daniel J. DeNoon

WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
July 18, 2007 -- Zocor -- but not sister cholesterol-lowering drugs Lipitor or Mevacor -- may cut the risk of both Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, a new study suggests.

It's not the first time that the cholesterol-lowering drugs known as statins have been linked to Alzheimer's disease. A small clinical trial in 2005 suggested that Lipitor might improve mental function in people with early Alzheimer's disease.

Both Lipitor and Zocor are in clinical trials to see whether they really do help people with Alzheimer's disease. But now there's compelling evidence that Zocor may actually prevent not only Alzheimer's disease, but Parkinson's disease, too.

The provocative new data come from Boston University researcher Benjamin Wolozin, MD, and colleagues.

"Many people are looking at whether statins might prevent the progression of dementia in people with Alzheimer's disease," Wolozin tells WebMD. "But a lot of people in the field think that if you start statin treatment at the time you already have the disease, it might be the wrong time. It might be nice to talk about how to prevent the disease."

To see whether taking statins had any effect on Alzheimer's disease, Wolozin's team used the immense U.S. Veterans Affairs database, with detailed information on 4.5 million patients. Some 727,000 of these patients took Zocor, about 54,000 took Lipitor, and about 54,000 took Mevacor.
In patients over age 64, those who took Zocor were 54% less likely to get Alzheimer's disease and 49% less likely to get Parkinson's disease than were matched patients not taking statin drugs.

Those who took Lipitor were 9% less likely to get Alzheimer's disease, a finding that was not statistically significant. Lipitor did not affect Parkinson's disease risk.

Mevacor had no effect on risk of either Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease.

D. Larry Sparks, PhD, director of the Roberts Laboratory for Neurodegenerative Disease Research at the Sun Health Research Institute in Sun City, Ariz., is involved in clinical trials of statins for Alzheimer's disease but was not involved in the Wolozin study.

"This study keeps alive the idea that statins may be of benefit in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and maybe even in mild cognitive impairment," Sparks tells WebMD. "But the most important part is that this addresses the role of cholesterol-lowering medications as a way to combat Parkinson's disease."

The study does not offer answers to the question of why Zocor seems to work better than Lipitor in preventing Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases.
Is it time to start taking Zocor to prevent neurodegenerative diseases? Wolozin says people should take statins only to lower high cholesterol levels.
"If your parents got Alzheimer's disease and you have high cholesterol, you might want to talk with your doctor about whether you should take Zocor or Lipitor," Wolozin says. "If your parents don't have Alzheimer's disease, but, say, your dad had a heart attack, you should probably take Lipitor, because it is somewhat better at preventing some of the [problems ] associated with heart disease. You have to look at your own personal risk factors."
Proof of whether statins affect risk of Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease can come only from controlled clinical trials. But as such trials would be extremely lengthy and expensive, Wolozin doubts they will be undertaken.
Help may come from ongoing trials looking at whether Lipitor or Zocor can help people who already have Alzheimer's disease. Those trials are nearly over; results are expected next year.
The Wolozin study appears in the July issue of the online journal BioMed Central Medicine.

One can find studies that are more recent....

like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20687089

This reminds me of the 20 yrs of positive effects of estrogen on postmenopausal women.... Which were results from drug company studies. The European ones at the time, were much different. In the end one large study here independent of the drug companies called the HERS study... ended prematurely due to the deaths of women using estrogen.

One can find studies on anything...but the sum total of people who have been injured keeps rising concerning this topic. Medical studies always go back and forth, and the reasons for this are hard to pin down. It happens on every topic.

The facts that statins injure or damage mitochondria, and also
prevent remyelination in the CNS are rather new, and disturbing IMO.

Simvastatin is lipophilic and enters the brain easily. Lipitor is mixed. And lovostatin and pravastatin are less likely to cause CNS side effects.

mrsD this was the greatest medical lecture I have seen in a very long time. It was so information (long, yes) but not boring. It made so much sense it was scary.

Fructose is a toxin, a poison. If you give you child a can of coke it is the same as giving him a beer, without the buzz. He will become obese, his Liver will suffer, and many diseases will be added to his list by the time he is a teenager. Thank you for this teaching video. :)

My triglyceride level is not high thank goodness.

JackD, thanks for the info. Remember XO from the original BT? He is another who takes statins, and like you has done a lot of research into MS and statins and other meds.

I'm on two cholesterol drugs-Lescol and Zetia. Alone, they don't reduce my number much, but together they do an okay job.
I tried Lipitor, Crestor, and is it Vitorin? They all made my legs go goofy; the muscles got bad.
My mom, dad and sis all had severe heart attacks-my dad died from his. Of course, they all smoked like chimneys and were sedentery and ate horribly. But I am overweight, so the total number is a warning sign, IMO.

Just make sure you pay attention to the side effects and note them/call dr. with the info.

Mrs. Doubtfyre, when you say

I wondered where the information came from.

My daughter died of a ruptured brain aneurysm and I've been watching for evidence that a tendency for aneurysms might run in families. So far I haven't found any.

In fact, I found this:

http://www.aneurysm-stroke.com/ic-aneurysm.php#Q3

ewizabeth, I'm back on Lipitor but take a minimal amount--10mg twice a week.

I saw it stated on the Discovery show, Dr. G. (the reality autopsy show).

I was thinking...cerebral.
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/u...neurysm-basics

But the others may still be inherited to some extent like Marfan's is, for example. Weaker than normal artery walls for some reason.
This is a defect in collagen production. Defects in collagen production are mostly genetic too.
Genetic issues would be more difficult to control, than say blood pressure that is untreated, etc.

http://www.inheritedhealth.com/condition/Aneurysm/39

Prevention VRS Treatment
 

I want to point out something important related to both our posting on Zocor.

My posting related to the PREVENTION of getting Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease as summarized from the study below.

ONLY ONE STATIN *ZOCOR* WAS FOUND TO BE TRUELY EFFECTIVE.

Your referenced study related to TREATMENT, using "Statins for the treatment of dementia."

It is my contention that ZOCOR is GREAT for PREVENTION but NOT GREAT for TREATMENT as your referenced study pointed out.

Also your statement "that One can find studies on anything" is not 100% accurate.

I still have not found the one on pink elephants.

Hyperbole is usefull sometimes but I do not think it fits into this kind of "informative dialogue" on a serious medical contition like MS.


jackD

Wiz...Jim takes Zocor, several years now, and is doing just fine.

Well, we each have our own opinion.

I have learned that studies may be not what we think they are, over the years.

What is very disturbing about lipophilic statins, is they go into the brain and nerves. The new physiological data showing mitochondrial damage and damage to remyelination of CNS fibers by them, is alarming, IMO.
It will take many years of confirmation to illustrate more in this regard. I personally would not take that chance given what we know today.

Here is an interesting NEW point of view about Alzheimer's that just came out:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread145988.html

It will be interesting to see if this pans out over time.

And being the skeptic I am, I tend to think the positive "studies" about statins continue to be funded by the drug companies.
That is the way it has been with 2 other blockbuster products so far in the past 20 yrs.

JackD,
Another good reason for me to give this a try. My mom had Alzheimer's so if this gives me another way to avoid that, I'll do it.

MrsD,
I value your opinion and I appreciate your skepticism, and I don't take meds lightly. I have tried many and stopped them if they cause more problems than they help. That includes Topamax, Fosamax-like meds, Baclofen, Tysabri and many more. If this causes problems I'll stop it, with no hesitation. [btw, the moss rose survived the winter and I should have blooms this year. Woo hoo!!] :)

Agate,
if this gets my cholesterol down fairly well, I'll likely take half a pill a day for maintenance. These are easy to break in two. And if that keeps it down, I'll take them less frequently like you do. How are your levels on that dose?

Sandy,
I'm glad to hear that they work well for Jim too. :) :hug:

How many of the campions survived? Mine are just peeking out from under the snow.

I have 4 flats going in the house of various things...and need to get them outside under the cold frame...but there is still too much snow and ice for that! Whew.

Just take care with the Zocor. Confusion, memory problems, aching muscles, are the most obvious symptoms. They don't show up right away either. So be ever watchful. And take your CoQ-10.

I meant campion of course, doh!! I have about 5 or 6 spots around the house. The silver gray leaves stayed pretty intact under the heavy snow. I'm hoping for flowers this year. I actually put stakes by each one but it wasn't necessary. I can easily spot them because of the well-preserved foliage that overwintered. I wanted to make sure I didn't accidentally pull them up as weeds during spring yard cleaning.

You'll love them...they put on a big show. Each year I add about 6 more plants to my spots! The more the merrier! They do increase/volunteer easily too. I put 4 of them in the free city garden at the corner and gave my son 3 for his front yard, near his poppies. The campions will bloom just as the poppies fade.

I bought another variety of campion seed from Ebay. An orange variety with purple leaves. They all germinated, but I don't know if they will bloom this year or not. If they do I'll take photos and save seed like I do. This variety does not have fuzzy leaves.
http://www.gardencrossings.com/plant...s-Orange-Gnome

If it works out and I have seeds you can have some too when that happens. Anything that attracts hummers and is easy and perennial I like.;)

ewizabeth, you asked about my levels on the dose of Lipitor that I've been taking.

Last April I was on 10 mg/week but the total cholesterol was 204 (HDL 49, LDL an unacceptable 128).

After increasing the Lipitor to 10 mg twice a week, in June the total cholesterol was 168 (HDL 54.8, LDL 95). Still not great for the LDL because they want to see 70 or lower.

I quit Lipitor completely at the end of June. In late August my total cholesterol was 210 (HDL 62.3, LDL 127).

I went back to 10 mg a week, and in December the LDL was down to 101. Since the doctor thought this was still too high, I've been taking 10 mg twice a week and will have a recheck soon. I'm hoping I won't have to increase the Lipitor any more.

The doctor says that with Type 2 diabetes I probably can't expect to have an acceptable cholesterol reading without one of the statins.

Just so you know....

Metformin may reduce cholesterol too.

I took it several years ago and it had that effect...however, metformin is so rough on the GI tract.

I am now back on it using a new form called Glumetza. So far no side effects on the GI issue!

Eating sugar and fructose will also increase cholesterol. As does
alcohol. It has to do with the liver metabolism of fructose.