Cream for PN
 

Hi all,


I have for a long time just put up with the burning pain from PN. The worst is the bottoms of my feet....they scream at me. I have tried neurontin, lyrica, cymbalta, and lamictal. None have been effective and I'm having a hard time coping with the pain anymore.

About 15 years ago I had a sural nerve biopsy. I suffered from disabling phantom pain for months afterward. The doctor gave me some sort of prescription cream to ease the pain. It didn't resolve it, but I remember it did take the edge off some.

Sadly, I have no idea of the name. I was hoping someone here might know what this is and whether it could be effective for short term pain relief...even if just enough to get to sleep at night.

Thanks,
Anita

There is Zonalon cream (doxepin)

Also various compounded transdermal things with
gabapentin
amitriptyline
ketamine
etc.

various recipes.

do any of these work?

And Lidoderm cream...didn't help me, but it might help some people.

Good luck. I hope you figure out was it was.

Anita,

I use "Topricin" for short term pain relief. I add a few drops of pure peppermint oil to the lotion which also helps with the burning. My pharmacist recommended this product. I found the best price at vitacost.com. There are two types, regular and foot therapy cream, which is more expensive. I've tried both, and found that the regular works even better than the foot therapy cream. They both have just about the same ingredients. I get better results with the regular. I posted the ingredients below. I hope this will help you.

TOPRICIN®'s INGREDIENTS
Topricin®'s patented combination of natural medicines is formulated to provide an array of benefits. Each ingredient passes through rigorous quality control procedure to ensure strength and purity. These superior ingredients effect their action while concurrently conditioning and moisturizing your skin.

Topricin® does not contain petroleum, mineral oil, lanolin, menthol, capsaicin, fragrances, or irritating chemicals. The cream is odorless, non-greasy, and will not stain your clothing. Topricin®'s hypoallergenic base is formulated for maximum absorption of its eleven medicines.

Arnica Montana - For injuries and bruising to the muscles and joints. Arnica is considered especially useful for arthritis, joint injuries, and bruising (6X)

Rhus Tox - For sprains, arthritic pain, and backaches (6X)

Ruta Graveolens - For relief from injuries to the bone or bone covering; often used to relieve trauma to the knee, shin, elbow and cheekbone (6X)

Lachesis Muta - For relief from sciatica, arthritis, lower back pain and carpal tunnel (8X)

Belladonna - Relief of pain, spasm & inflammation to muscle tissue (6X)

Echinacea - Anti-inflammatory and anti-bacterial (6X)

Crotalus - For improving localized circulation, and considered effective for bruises and contusions, and for accelerating repair to damaged nerves, joints, and muscles (8X)

Aesculus - For chronic pain, especially in the legs & varicose veins. (6X)

Heloderma - For relief from burning sensation in the hands or feet. (8X)

Naja - Relieves inflammation and pain in nerve tissue in the treatment of Carpal Tunnel and neuropathy (8X)

Graphites - For relieving symptoms of skin conditions (6X)
:hug:

Thanks MrsD.

Have you tried the Zonalon cream or any of the other compounds? Any comments as to effectiveness?

Thanks Rosie.

I will be checking this out.

I have found creams only help areas with no fat and thin skin etc - and is pretty useless on places with thicker skins. I am not sure that any cream would help the bottom of the feet as the skin is so thick

It was ages ago I used to use feldene gel on my knuckles and fingers - it helped for those areas, but not for anywhere else.

hope you find something to help

raglet

Someone else here uses Zonalon with success. I can't recall who right now...you can search it. People taking AIDs drugs use Zonalon too for their foot PN.

I use Biofreeze when I have severe burning, which is not often anymore, but still appears now and then.

The other creams are used by many people with severe pain.
The RSD forum has members who have posted about compounded pain transdermal gels. The recipes vary from doctor to doctor, because certain doctors feel certain things are more useful, than others.

When I get burning, it is mostly on the tops of my feet, not the bottoms.

You will want to make sure you don't have athlete's foot fungus there on the bottoms. It can lie dormant in the skin and not cause lesions, but it can still cause burning. Aggressive use of Lamisil cream for 14 days, would be a good experiment to see if that is your culprit.

The burning I have is 'inside' the bottoms of the feet, not on the surface. Maybe burning isn't the best word. It stings with fire like it would if someone smacked hard the bottom of your bare feet with a plank...but stays constant.

It certainly can't hurt to try the lamisil. They don't itch at all, but if dormant, I guess it wouldn't.

This 'nerve' type pain is similar to the pain i get deep in the backs of my legs at times...radiating from the back through the butt and down the backs of my legs. The feet are just more constant and bothersome.

I have heard others mention biofreeze. I can't stand anything cold or that would cause a cold/chilled feeling. I must wear gloves just to get something out of the freezer because it burns/stings instantly.

I have also read some of your threads/posts about r-lipoic acid. I wonder if it might be worth a try also. What dosing should someone start with? Does it react with other meds?

Thanks so much for your input.

Yes, the lipoic is very useful. Try it...

The fungus remains in the deeper tissues, when the skin heals up.

Biofreeze is not "cold"...it is at room temperature. What it does is the menthol in it stimulates the cold receptors in the skin, which then block the heat sensing ones, so the burning stops.In fact if your feet are red, the redness will remain. (redness implies increase blood flow there)

It does not make anything cold to the touch. It just "feels" cold.
Biofreeze has a non greasy gel base which is very nice. It sinks in quickly and does not stain or get messy.

Biofreeze also has a potent antioxidant in it, called Ilex. This is the same antioxidant in Yerba Mate tea, which is very popular in S. America. (more drunk there than coffee in fact).

The antioxidant is very useful IMO... as it takes down free radical damage from inflammation.

I will give both the biofreeze and the lipoic a try. I'm always cold, so don't even like a cold feeling, but less pain is better then cold...LOL What should be the starting dose of lipoic? Is it something that must be taken on an empty stomach for best absorption? Is it something I'll notice right away or does it take time to build up in the system?

Thanks

I use "prudoxin" which is generic for zonalon
 

As I've mentioned in other posts, I use this and it works for the burning. It is very expensive & it isn't covered by my drug plan so I use it only when I am in serious pain. It also works for 3 to 4 hours...longer than Biofreeze.

I also use Biofreeze which works well and has a very soothing/cooling effect. It is also more cost effective than prudoxin. I buy it @ Amazon where it's less expensive than @ my local drugstore.

Some people find lipoic acid stimulating. So start at 50mg a day.
There are types that are tablets on iherb.com

That is what I did. If you get 100mg tablets you can break them in half. But this also comes in capsules which are less flexible in changing dosing.

If you don't find any stimulating effects that you don't like, you can slowly raise to 100mg twice a day. It may lower blood sugars for you, so if you are on diabetes drugs, you need to be testing your blood sugars.

You will want to get the r-lipoic form...as it is more potent and works in lower dosing than the older "alpha" type.

I would apply the Biofreeze to the Achillies tendon area and ankle too. That is where the nerves are, and where they may be compressed. Putting on thick skin of the bottom of the foot may not work. I really find Biofreeze helpful, I use it on my feet, knees and hands, for my arthritis too.

Dr. Smith had a very rapid response to lipoic acid...a couple of days or so. But I think 2 weeks is a modest expectation, or a month. He jumped in with high dose of 100mg twice a day to start, I believe.

foot pain
 

When I complained to my neurologist, he prescribed a cream which has to be compounded by a lab. I don't know what the actual name is, but on the tube it says, "keto/gaba/amit/lido 5/2/2 15%. All I know is the stuff works. Whenever I do too much walking, or even standing for long periods, I too have that burning, or the feeling of being spanked with a board too. Using this cream does relieve the pain. Applied an hour before going to bed, and there is no pain by bedtime. I do, however, sometimes have pain when waking. Putting me feet on the floor, there is a soreness that shows up that feels like overworked muscles. It goes away after a few minutes of walking around. Course, I have two layers of Dr. Scholls padding in my slippers. Can't walk in just normal cushioning.
Hope you find something that works for you. Good luck.:grouphug:

There are many recipes out there ..

yours: "keto/gaba/amit/lido 5/2/2 15%.

Ketoprofen (or ketorolac) 5%, gabapentin 2%, amitriptyline 2% and lidocaine 15%

Ketoprofen is the most lipophilic of the NSAIDs so is used often in pain creams/gels because it crosses the skin barrier well.

Also used are ketamine and clonidine, and dicofenac. It depends on the doctor and his opinions.

Have you tried the Lidoderm topical pads?
 

They aren't cheap, but they can be cut up to size and will deaden most feet, if used on a regular basis.
Two drawbacks...1- outrageously expensive -3"x6" can be cut to fit; and 2- make sure where you stick it on? that the skin is clean and dry before the 'sticking'. Otherwise they come off soo easily that it's wasted effort and treatment. They don't eliminate the pain per-se, just numb it to the point of being dumb-numb.
Good Luck! :hug::hug::hug:'s!!!!!! - j

Thanks for the tip on the lidoderm patch. I will inquire about a script for this when I see my GP in a few weeks...just in case the R lipoic doesn't work.

I have ordered the R lipoic and it's on the way via priority mail...LOL Kind of sad when someone gets really excited something like this...but I can't wait to try it. Keeping my fingers crossed that one of these works.

I must ask a silly question?
 

That IS a bear? or a very furry scotty? Tell me it's a bear...I think?
May I say? THAT is close to nature? For me, maybe too close, but Let them be and maybe they'll let you be?
While where I live we mite see deer and dog-creatues? Not to mention raccoons and foxes? Few bears at all... Tho? I'd not be surprised to see one not to far from me. Somehow? Tho? I just wouldn't want to go out of the house if one were nearby! WOW!! - j

It looks like a bear to me! We have them upNorth... mostly in June when the mother shoves the 1.5yr olds out, in preparation for her new mating.

Here is one fellow we had for 8hrs one June. (we later learned a local was feeding them all winter, so they tamed to females, and this one especially wanted ME)

It was tough getting to the outhouse that day!
My husband and son had to beat him off with poles, so I could get out there! He kept coming after ME, but not them. It was not a fun experience! This picture of him in the tree was after we made big noise with pots and pans clanking. But shooting over his head with a shotgun had no effect!

Yes, that's a bear in my front yard. The one (in my profile pic) is a cub I named Buster. His momma and brother (a yearling), Bruno, were both close by. They come almost daily (sometimes twice in one day) to see if there is any bird seed in the feeder or to turn large rocks for bugs, steal the pears and peaches or check out what's in my garden. Now that spring is here, they should start coming by again...maybe with a new cub or two.

Here's a male, Brutus, having a sunflower seed snack at the same feeder pole. The feeder hangs at just about 6-7 feet off the ground. I have to bring feeders in every night or keep them in for days at a time to discourage the bears. It's not a good idea to feed them.

He was completely unfazed by me being on the screened porch 25' away. They are used to gun shot noises and dogs barking...nothing really scares them.

Yes, one has to be VERY careful with bears. They are unpredictable.
Brutus looks like a brute all right! I'd be uncomfortable around HIM.

Ours are typically not nearby when we are out...we call them the "shy bears". But for several seasons there was a glut of them and the DNR put out hunting licenses for a while, and that stopped.

We are on an island, so they swim over.

Some of the bears up there have torn the siding off homes, to get in. (we store all food in double plastic air tight containers for that reason). Also one bear one year got so angry when he couldn't find food at a local's home, he trashed her solar lights, which she used to light her driveway. It was a very expensive visit! One year a bear came in the night when I was up there alone, and trashed all my hummingbird feeders. I used a glue to plug the fang holes in them, and managed to limp thru the season that way.

Most of the time the bears come when relatives leave for home up there. They typically put all food out that they don't take back with them. (those that fly are the worst offenders). Then the bear show up to eat the dumped food/crackers/cereal/cookies whatever). This is one reason I like having the deer around. The deer will skoot off for a few days when the bear arrive. That tells me they are near and to be careful.

The deer do not like our black cats. But they are unfazed by other colors. Here is a pic of Oreo watching them last year.
But we have had some does charge our black cats, and also do aggressive postures and sounds when the black ones are out.
They must think the cats are small bears?

The bucket is water for the deer to keep them off our shore where my plants are. They typically drink after using the salt lick. Next to them on the milk crate is a bird bath I made when we discovered the birds liked the bucket...so we put a stick in the bucket for them to perch on. Who would have thought with water everywhere, the birds would love this bird bath so much? But we learned that eventually!

I agree, bears are very unpredictable and MUST be respected.

Our first encounter shortly after moving here was two bears tearing up the screened porch because I left a closed rubbermaid tub of bird seed on the porch (lesson learned :eek:). I cleaned up the mess and fixed all the screen only to have them come right back the next morning and tear it up again...even though there was nothing on the porch. They are creatures of habit and once they find food, they will always remember and come back. That's why i must take all feeders in every night...and yes, they have gotten my hummer feeders as well.

They will break into homes and/or garages looking for food if they smell it or are starving. I think/hope we have enough natural fruit and berries for them here so they won't attempt a home invasion...LOL

I bet the deer DO think your cats are cubs. Good the deer alert you (by their absence) that bears may be around. Watching and/or listening to animals can tell you many things about what's in the area, weather, storms, etc.

My biggest fear is my dog. She would (in fun only) chase a cub if she saw it...which would likely be fatal if the momma has anything to say about it. I must visually check the area before taking her out and she's never allowed to stay out by herself.

The game dept has come out for a visit due to the heavy bear traffic we have. They don't relocate bears unless they are aggressive. So we just try to learn to live with them. They are beautiful and interesting creatures.